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third party or lesser of two evils?
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| Vote your conscious |
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| Vote for the lesser of two evils. |
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Total Votes : 34
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(last vote on : 10/23/2008 5:56:48 PM)
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 11:27:12 AM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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djv1255,
quote:
Nation-wide they have not gotten enough votes to match what large city mayor gets.
Do you have any evidence for that?
ManimalX,
quote:
you fighting a lost battle on this one.
I'm not expecting to win the battle. I have no hope of seeing Barr in the Oval Office. But four years from now? Eight? Who's to say what could happen if we, as Americans, let it be known that we are sick and tired of getting two candidates who we don't really like?
quote:
you need to stop pretending like it is sending a message to anyone.
If you only consider the short-term effects, you're right. But if that was all I was considering, then I'd be voting McCain.
quote:
3rd party votes generally take away from the Republican candidate
People keep saying this. Do you have any evidence for it?
quote:
The Republican candidate is the only one who can defeat the Democrat candidate, and that is a noble thing.
I disagree. It is not noble. It's safe. It's saying, "Well, things may not be getting better, but at least we don't have one of them in office." It's being unwilling to risk 4 years of trouble for lasting change down the road.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 11:31:00 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 2060
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mavrick
quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
I agree. Didn't vote for Dole & voted for Constitution Party. Pretty much gave a vote to Clinton & his 2nd term.
Democrats are the party of death & Republicans are the party of life. The unborn can't vote. The next President will seat up to 4 Supreme Court justices.
You did not give Clinton a second term - the ones who voted for him did. You did the correct thing by voting your conscience. You are to be commended.
I have to disagree here. Voting 3rd party most cetainly did help get Clinton elected. And we managed to survive that but another Democratic term - with the Obama, Pelosi, Reid Triumvirate wil be a disaster I'm not sure we will recover from. You know full well, a vote 3rd party will most definitely benefit Obama. If you want to do that, knock yourself out, but don't pretend it's the noble thing to do. It's the naive thing to do.
I voted Huckabee in the Florida primary. I debated and debated what to do. Dh told me I needed to vote Romney because it was going to be close between him and McCain. I believe if Romney had won Florida and done just a little better across the board in the primaries, it would be a very different race right now. I adore Huckabee and think he'd be the best President of the three but he wasn't the best candidate. I voted my "conscious" instead of strategery in that round and I regret it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mavrickI boldfaced your obvious hyperbole. As a Republican, that statement is truly repugnant. Have you ever met any Democrats? Take it back.
Regarding SCOTUS appointments, there's no convincing any rational person that appointments from the Republicrat or Demoblican candidates will vary in the slightest.
I agree with your last two points wholeheartedly, though. While I think McCain would appoint much betteer Justices (as if he could get them confirmed) than Obama would, I don't think it will matter much in the long run . . . and certainly not on abortion.
To me, the "party of death, party of life" line is just embarassing. And we wonder why Christians aren't taken seriously in politics or society. I don't care if the (extreme) Left says the same kind of stupid stuff, it stoops to their level and it's not constructive in any way.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 12:12:35 PM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
djv1255,
quote:
Nation-wide they have not gotten enough votes to match what large city mayor gets.
Do you have any evidence for that?
2004 Presidential Election Results:
George W. Bush -- Republican -- 62,040,610 -- 50.74%
John F. Kerry -- Democratic -- 59,028,444 -- 48.27%
Ralph Nader -- Reform -- 465,650 -- 0.38%
Michael Badnarik -- Libertarian -- 397,265 -- 0.32%
Michael Peroutka -- Constitution -- 143,630 -- 0.12%
David Cobb -- Green -- 119,859 -- 0.10%
Leonard Peltier -- Peace and Freedom -- 27,607 -- 0.02%
Walt Brown -- Socialist -- 10,837 -- 0.01%
Róger Calero -- Socialist Workers -- 10,800 -- 0.01%
All of the third parties combined couldn’t get even 1%.
Phoenix, AZ has 524,108 registered voters.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 12:41:23 PM
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mavrick
Posts: 71
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: The Danger Zone
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
I have to disagree here. Voting 3rd party most cetainly did help get Clinton elected. And we managed to survive that but another Democratic term - with the Obama, Pelosi, Reid Triumvirate wil be a disaster I'm not sure we will recover from. You know full well, a vote 3rd party will most definitely benefit Obama. If you want to do that, knock yourself out, but don't pretend it's the noble thing to do. It's the naive thing to do.
I voted Huckabee in the Florida primary. I debated and debated what to do. Dh told me I needed to vote Romney because it was going to be close between him and McCain. I believe if Romney had won Florida and done just a little better across the board in the primaries, it would be a very different race right now. I adore Huckabee and think he'd be the best President of the three but he wasn't the best candidate. I voted my "conscious" instead of strategery in that round and I regret it.
People who voted for Clinton elected Clinton.
People who voted for McCain elected McCain.
Fear has no place in the Christian voter's mind. The Christian lives by faith, votes their conscience, and leaves outcomes to God, where they belong. We are so priveleged in this country to be able to vote, and yet we choose to squander it?
Romans 3:8 - Why not say--as we are being slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say--"Let us do evil that good may result"? Their condemnation is deserved.
Daniel 2:21 - He changes times and seasons; He sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.
It has been said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. I've voted the same for lots of years now, and haven't seen the results I'm looking for. I'll be doing something different this year.
_____________________________
"Never Leave Your Wingman"
"In this world you will have trouble. But fear not; I have overcome the world."
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 1:38:25 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Phoenix, AZ has 524,108 registered voters.
Do you think that in Phoenix's mayoral elections, one candidate gets all the votes? Let's assume the split is about 50-50. That would mean Phoenix's mayor got about 260,000 votes. Both Nader and Badnarik got well more than that.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 2:28:57 PM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Phoenix, AZ has 524,108 registered voters.
Do you think that in Phoenix's mayoral elections, one candidate gets all the votes? Let's assume the split is about 50-50. That would mean Phoenix's mayor got about 260,000 votes. Both Nader and Badnarik got well more than that.
If their parties every became mayor of the 6th largest city, the media might notice. But since their total is national-wide, they don't even have a remote chance of electing a mayor of the 6th largest city. Thinking they can elect a president is a joke.
_____________________________
Favorite Photo Blogs: US Military Doing Good Deeds
US Torture and Atrocities (the blog name is poking fun at liberals not our soldiers)
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 2:49:55 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2101
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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One of the first things Obama will do as President is sign the Freedom of Choice act.
Here is a list of his other executive orders.
Obama is a socialist & the way his campaign is treating Joe the plumber is a glimpse into his presidency.
It will be a disaster if we have a Democratic President & Congress.
< Message edited by Abbreviated -- 10/21/2008 3:00:17 PM >
_____________________________
Buried In Legos...
Bologna Donuts
Jackie
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 2:59:14 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
One of the first things Obama will do as President is sign the Freedom of Choice act.
Here is a list of his other executive orders.
I would NEVER vote for Obama or anyone like him,
but I still listen to EVERY WORD very closely to discern
what he is really saying.
One was that he was going to call in all the ACORN and
Planned Parenthood cronies in to help him develop policies.
Most people don't listen to anything that is being said,
whether Republican, Democrat, or Independent.
They hang on the sound-bites designed to touch the heart
strings of the wicked hearts of the masses. And then,
as proven in all our history, once in power, they continue
to do whatever it does to keep that power.
I'd have to check, but Clinton may hold the Executive Order record.
So far. Obama will definitely out do him. But, with Pelosi and Reid,
he may not have to.
Scary thought, Extreme Liberal President, Extreme Liberal House and
Senate Leaders, Extreme Propoganda (news sources).
If you have a house you call home, don't be surprised if you are
mandated by the governement to bring in five other families to
live off of you.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 3:04:46 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2101
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: djv1255
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
This election third party candidates will NOT win.
And if we don't start now, they never will.
Third parties need to get people elected to local, state and US Congress first.
A third party president will NEVER ever happen ever unless it has an elected base.
I agree. It will have to be a grassroots effort that trickles up. When the Constitution party became a political party in Kansas there were some state candidates. Not so the last couple of elections.
Earlier in the year I was voting for McCain as a vote against Obama. Now I am for McCain. He isn't perfect.
_____________________________
Buried In Legos...
Bologna Donuts
Jackie
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 3:11:24 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2101
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Murder is evil. Abortion is murder. God hates the shedding of innocent blood.
Democrats are the party of abortion/death.
Those are facts.
Shooting the messenger doesn't change the facts.
Killer Tiller in Wichita continues to kill babies because of his political clout that goes all the way to Topeka & a Democratic governor.
There is even a book with footnotes about it.
I'm not Catholic, but Catholic Bishops agree with me & the statement.
_____________________________
Buried In Legos...
Bologna Donuts
Jackie
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 3:21:17 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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djv1255,
quote:
Thinking they can elect a president is a joke.
Have you even been reading what I've said? I have no delusion of Barr being elected president this year. It's not about winning this election. It's about making a long-lasting change. Tossing a pebble in a pond to create ripples further on down the line.
Abbreviated,
quote:
Democrats are the party of abortion/death.
Those are facts.
That's not a fact, that's a label. Pro-choice does not = pro-death. I vehemently disagree with it, but I don't stereotype it unfairly, either.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 3:24:04 PM
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Longfingers1
Posts: 444
Joined: 9/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abbreviated
Democrats are the party of abortion/death.
Those are facts.
That's not a fact, that's your opinion, and an inaccurate one at that. 
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 3:51:58 PM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
djv1255,
quote:
Thinking they can elect a president is a joke.
Have you even been reading what I've said? I have no delusion of Barr being elected president this year. It's not about winning this election. It's about making a long-lasting change. Tossing a pebble in a pond to create ripples further on down the line.
For the presidency, you are tossing the pebble in the ocean. It won't make a ripple. You need to start with a pond.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/21/2008 3:57:03 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
For the presidency, you are tossing the pebble in the ocean. It won't make a ripple.
Thankfully, I'm not the only one tossing.
quote:
You need to start with a pond.
Funny thing about elections, you get to vote for more than just the president. Trust me, I'll be throwing pebbles in ponds too.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 1:15:29 PM
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Psalms274
Posts: 2243
Joined: 8/13/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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I have a question for those who will voting for a third party. Is this really the right time to do so?
If Obama gets in he White House with a super majority in the House and Senate, we are looking at some pretty scary times. Most likely, similar to the Carter years. After those four years of doom, I am betting most will be less willing to go third party, but swing back to Republican again (it's just human nature) ... it seems to me voting third party now will set you back as opposed to bringing it forward.
_____________________________
I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ.
Linus, my dog, little Kaleigh and Sally!
http://piswa.blogspot.com/
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 2:15:25 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Is this really the right time to do so?
Do you really think that Christians will have a different attitude 4 years from now? Were Christians any less scared of Kerry than they are of Obama? It's easy to say that this time around is more serious, and so it we can't dare risk it, but I can guarantee you that 4 years from now it'll be the same song - no matter who wins this year.
So, yes, this is the right time. If we keep waiting for a presidential election that doesn't matter, we'll be waiting 'til the day we die.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 2:28:14 PM
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djv1255
Posts: 176
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline
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One last time..
Until third parties gain credibility by electing a large city mayor, governor or senator, a third party presidential is a waste of your vote so waste away.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 2:42:48 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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quote:
Until third parties gain credibility by electing a large city mayor, governor or senator, a third party presidential is a waste of your vote so waste away.
Do you honestly believe that just because a candidate (almost certainly) won't get elected, a vote is a waste?
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 2:58:32 PM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Until third parties gain credibility by electing a large city mayor, governor or senator, a third party presidential is a waste of your vote so waste away.
Do you honestly believe that just because a candidate (almost certainly) won't get elected, a vote is a waste?
I would never say a vote for a "most certainly not elected" candidate is a wasted vote.
However, I would assert to say it is a nonprudent vote.
A vote is always a choice acted out that creates a tally for a suggested happening.
And like any choice , it can be wise or plain dumb.
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 7:25:58 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2101
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Have a question as far as the lesser of 2 evils.
I understand the evil of the Democrats/Socialists.
What is the evil of the Republicans ?
I do think the Rep. have moved to the left just like the Dems have moved closer to communism.
Are there specific instances of evil or is this term being used as an excuse ?
_____________________________
Buried In Legos...
Bologna Donuts
Jackie
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 7:35:54 PM
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Abbreviated
Posts: 2101
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
djv1255,
quote:
Thinking they can elect a president is a joke.
Have you even been reading what I've said? I have no delusion of Barr being elected president this year. It's not about winning this election. It's about making a long-lasting change. Tossing a pebble in a pond to create ripples further on down the line.
Abbreviated,
quote:
Democrats are the party of abortion/death.
Those are facts.
That's not a fact, that's a label. Pro-choice does not = pro-death. I vehemently disagree with it, but I don't stereotype it unfairly, either.
A spin off thread might be interesting. Disagreement without backing could be considered hot air. Pro choice is not an accurate term of what happens in an abortion/murder.
_____________________________
Buried In Legos...
Bologna Donuts
Jackie
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 8:43:01 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 676
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: offline
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quote:
Should I vote for the lesser of two evils or should I follow my conscious and vote for a third party?
I actually forgot there was more than 2 people running. See in WA only the top 2 in the primary got to the general election. So in the case here I would say it would be a throw away.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: third party or lesser of two evils? - 10/22/2008 9:15:56 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1884
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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letusreason,
quote:
A vote is always a choice acted out that creates a tally for a suggested happening.
Exactly. And I'm hoping to do my part to make that tally large enough to encourage future action, that will eventually lead to a tally large enough to make a nationwide impact.
Abbreviated,
quote:
What is the evil of the Republicans ?
"Lesser of two evils" may be stating it too strongly, if taken literally. I don't really think either party is "evil." I use it more in the gnomic sense, referring to "two undesirable options, whereas one is slightly less undesirable, but still undesirable all the same."
That said - Big Government, pretty much. Being the world's police man is another big part of it.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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