K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (Full Version)

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raspberry331 -> K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/24/2008 9:30:16 PM)

http://www.kmbc.com/education/17530918/detail.html


A Kansas City, Kan., parent says she wants public school officials to remove John Steinbeck's novel "Of Mice and Men" from a required reading list.



leonfigg3 -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/24/2008 10:32:37 PM)

When are people going to learn/ realize that the learning process requires us to read and learn the history of issues and how they have been dealt with and looked at?

Yes, the use of the word is distasteful. To understand why it is distasteful, one must look at it and how it was used.



ekserekseez -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 7:15:10 AM)

It's too bad this mother is TOO LAZY TO BABYSIT HER OWN KIDS! So nobody else anywhere in the city schools gets to read a classic because she's afraid that her kids might stumble across it?

Too bad! This is another way that socialism is creeping into "conservative" thought. "I don't want my kid to see/read/watch this, so we'll just ban it so NOBODY can see it. That way I can lie around doing nothing, and don't have to worry about taking charge of my own child."

No wonder this country is going down the drain. This sad, pathetic, LAZY woman probably thinks she's a conservative. Bet she voted for W.



Dubya -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 8:53:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ekserekseez

It's too bad this mother is TOO LAZY TO BABYSIT HER OWN KIDS! So nobody else anywhere in the city schools gets to read a classic because she's afraid that her kids might stumble across it?

Too bad! This is another way that socialism is creeping into "conservative" thought. "I don't want my kid to see/read/watch this, so we'll just ban it so NOBODY can see it. That way I can lie around doing nothing, and don't have to worry about taking charge of my own child."

No wonder this country is going down the drain. This sad, pathetic, LAZY woman probably thinks she's a conservative. Bet she voted for W.

You may want to slow down a little and actually READ the article.
No one ever asked for the book to be banned.

The issue was concerning the reading out loud in the class room. The mom was only asking for the book to be removed from the REQUIRED reading list.

Seems like reading (to understand) is a problem for many... including posters on this thread.



ekserekseez -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 8:57:32 AM)

Seems like you don't read, either. She should take her kid out of the class. If other parents don't want their kids to hear it, they should do the same. Most won't because they have sense.

Once again, socialism and the search for the lowest common denominator wins, or tries to.

Maybe she should just "homeschool" her kids. But no, once again: requires EFFORT on her part.



Dubya -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:11:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ekserekseez

Seems like you don't read, either.

Exactly what did I miss?
quote:

She should take her kid out of the class. If other parents don't want their kids to hear it, they should do the same. Most won't because they have sense.

Once again, socialism and the search for the lowest common denominator wins, or tries to.

How is a mom voicing her objections considered socialism? If you really READ the article, did the school submit to her objections?

My friend, I am a conservative as well. It does not do the conservative cause any good by crying "socialist" at everything you don't like. Words have meanings. You should learn them.

It seems to me that if you agree with everything being done in the public school and no one has the right to object... maybe it is you who are the socialist.
quote:


Maybe she should just "homeschool" her kids. But no, once again: requires EFFORT on her part.

Seems like you are reading a lot into the article which is not there.
I know, I know... reading to understand requires EFFORT. Evidently, too much for some.



stampinlady -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:18:51 AM)

quote:

The issue was concerning the reading out loud in the class room. The mom was only asking for the book to be removed from the REQUIRED reading list.


Being that this teen is in high school I'm pretty sure that he/she's heard much worse.[8D]

What happens when this student has to read disturbing stories in history class? What about health class? If this mom is so concerned she should homeschool.



Dubya -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:26:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

The issue was concerning the reading out loud in the class room. The mom was only asking for the book to be removed from the REQUIRED reading list.


Being that this teen is in high school I'm pretty sure that he/she's heard much worse.[8D]

What happens when this student has to read disturbing stories in history class? What about health class? If this mom is so concerned she should homeschool.

I agree that students need to learn even the most disturbing facts from history. And I happen to like "Of Mice and Men" as well as Steinbecks other novels. I also treasure the works of Mark Twain, whose "Huckleberry Finn", has been the target of objections over the use of the "N" word.

I would simply point this out... ekserelseez accused this mom of wanting a book banned... she DID NOT. He accused her of being a soicialist... how so?

Her objection was over the reading out loud of a word which is so offensive that if I printed it here the moderators would censor it and send me a nasty note. Even the newspaper which printed the story chose not to print the word. Why is her objection considered wrong?



stamper_ben -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:35:38 AM)

Am I understanding this right?[&:]

These kids are in high school and still being read ALOUD to?



stampinlady -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:36:51 AM)

quote:

Why is her objection considered wrong?


Because it's part of history? Is she going to have the same problem when her teen studies Hitler and learns what he called Jews and others? I think it's dangerous to rewrite history just because we don't like certain aspects of it.



Dubya -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:37:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Am I understanding this right?[&:]

These kids are in high school and still being read ALOUD to?

The way I understood it, the students are reading aloud.



stamper_ben -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:41:54 AM)

quote:

The way I understood it, the students are reading aloud.
Hmmm. Back in my day, many days ago, we read silently to ourselves and then were tested on our comprehension.

How things in the public schools have changed it seems.



Dubya -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 9:45:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

The way I understood it, the students are reading aloud.
Hmmm. Back in my day, many days ago, we read silently to ourselves and then were tested on our comprehension.

How things in the public schools have changed it seems.

Same here. I don't recall reading out loud after the 4th or 5th grade.
I don't think any of my kids read aloud in class in high school either.

It may be the school district or maybe it is a remedial class. Either way, I understand the mom's objections.



letusreason -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 10:18:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ekserekseez

It's too bad this mother is TOO LAZY TO BABYSIT HER OWN KIDS! So nobody else anywhere in the city schools gets to read a classic because she's afraid that her kids might stumble across it?

Too bad! This is another way that socialism is creeping into "conservative" thought. "I don't want my kid to see/read/watch this, so we'll just ban it so NOBODY can see it. That way I can lie around doing nothing, and don't have to worry about taking charge of my own child."

No wonder this country is going down the drain. This sad, pathetic, LAZY woman probably thinks she's a conservative. Bet she voted for W.


I don't get were you get "not required" = "banned" ??

You seem to feel very strongly about this. Are your feelings equally as strong about requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in schools and allowing Prayer (moments of silence) in schools?

It's intersting how we care if some one is offended by a prayer but not when a racial epitaph if forced on you.



Ramona_in_CO -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 10:26:39 AM)

When I was in a high school lit class, waaaaay back in 75-76, "Catcher in the Rye" was a required book.

My teacher knew that I was a Christian. When he passed out the books, he stopped at my desk and told me that he realized I might not want to read it. He asked me to give it a try, and if I didn't want to read it he'd assign a different book to me. I agreed to give it a try.

I read the first 20 pages or so, and didn't really like the profanity, told the teacher and he assigned a different book. My parents never got involved, I never requested that any book be banned, nothing.

Oh, and it was interesting to me that there was a mormon girl in the class, and to the best of my knowledge she was not given the same option.



NoShow -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 10:30:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dubya

quote:

ORIGINAL: ekserekseez

Seems like you don't read, either.

Exactly what did I miss?
quote:

She should take her kid out of the class. If other parents don't want their kids to hear it, they should do the same. Most won't because they have sense.

Once again, socialism and the search for the lowest common denominator wins, or tries to.

How is a mom voicing her objections considered socialism? If you really READ the article, did the school submit to her objections?

My friend, I am a conservative as well. It does not do the conservative cause any good by crying "socialist" at everything you don't like. Words have meanings. You should learn them.

It seems to me that if you agree with everything being done in the public school and no one has the right to object... maybe it is you who are the socialist.
quote:


Maybe she should just "homeschool" her kids. But no, once again: requires EFFORT on her part.

Seems like you are reading a lot into the article which is not there.
I know, I know... reading to understand requires EFFORT. Evidently, too much for some.


I found this funny. We were talking about this situation\story yesterday. One of the comments made was "She's problem another one of those Liberals telling us how to live our lives, based on everything has to be politically correct."



ekserekseez -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:00:06 AM)

stampinlady, thanks for getting it.



Dubya -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:25:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

Why is her objection considered wrong?


Because it's part of history? Is she going to have the same problem when her teen studies Hitler and learns what he called Jews and others? I think it's dangerous to rewrite history just because we don't like certain aspects of it.

"Of Mice and Men" is fictioinal literature. No one is re-writing history in this case.

By the way, it her objections are off-base... I dare you to clearly tell all of us what "N" word she objects to. If it is just history and not to be considered offensive, why don't you use it on this forum?

By the way, since you are a history expert, exactly what did you learn about what Hitler called Jews and others? My high school history class was over 40 years ago and I don't recall anything other than the word "Jew". Did you learn racially offensive epithets in your high school history class?



stampinlady -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:26:01 AM)

quote:

Are your feelings equally as strong about requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in schools and allowing Prayer (moments of silence) in schools?


I'm not for either of those at all.



Dubya -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:29:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stampinlady

quote:

Are your feelings equally as strong about requiring the Pledge of Allegiance in schools and allowing Prayer (moments of silence) in schools?


I'm not for either of those at all.

I don't get it. You're not for requiring the Pledge of Allegience but you are for requiring reading "Of Mice and Men" out loud because it is "history"?[8|]



1love1God1way -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:34:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Am I understanding this right?[&:]

These kids are in high school and still being read ALOUD to?


"Of Mice and Men" was also turned into a play.

Perhaps that is what they are reading.



phreddy -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:39:20 AM)

Seems to me the district spokeperson had it right. The teacher could have handled it better. If the student had an option to read something else, the teacher should have offered that option. Problem solved.


There is a difference in reading something to yourself or reading it out loud. If the student was uncomfortable reading that word out loud why wasn't he given the option to read something else.



garsyt -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:42:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Am I understanding this right?[&:]

These kids are in high school and still being read ALOUD to?



Actually it helps some kids GET it. Hearing someone else read something that you've already read actually promotes deeper comprehension for some kids. Some kids learn better by seeing and some kids learn better by hearing. I'm pretty certain that my freshmen's english teacher will not be reading any of their novels completely aloud but I'm sure she will read at least portions out loud. It also promotes discussion.

I still read aloud to all my kids. At dinner time three or four nights a week I'll read from something while they are eating. And my 14 year old says that this is very enjoyable for him! Sometimes he takes the book and does the reading too. My kids range in age from 7 to 14 so the content has to be appropriate for the 7 year old but my eldest doesn't seem to mind all that much.

AS for removing books from required reading lists. Often times schools will offer alternatives to students and parents. Last year my now 5th grader had a 4th grade teacher that had a questionable book in his classroom library that the kids were allowed to read IF and only IF he had cleared it with their parents. It had some language and some pretty violent scenes as well. He had two copies actually and would loan a copy to the parents if they wanted to read it before allowing their child to read it.

My eldest's English and world history teachers all announce their chosen novels at the beginning of the school year so parents have time to either read the possible questionable or to make arrangements for their child to read something else.

I also think that by high school kids should be allowed to KNOW that there was and is ugliness in the world. We can't and shouldn't sugar coat the way our world is or was.

Blessings,

Garsy



TheosCentric -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:50:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Am I understanding this right?[&:]

These kids are in high school and still being read ALOUD to?

It's called, "No Child Left Behind."

[;)]



stamper_ben -> RE: K.C. mom wants 'Mice and Men' removed (9/25/2008 11:59:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheosCentric

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

Am I understanding this right?[&:]

These kids are in high school and still being read ALOUD to?

It's called, "No Child Left Behind."

[;)]

Only when the book is being held in the lap upsidedown.[8D]



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