Does God need Scripture? (Full Version)

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mvic -> Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:02:28 PM)

The chances are I'll be mis-understood. So let me make it clear:

I believe Scripture is important to help us learn and grow. The Bible was inspired by God and contains the basic principles of our Christian Faith.

Having said this: How much does God need Scripture? Can He not in this day and age communicate direct with us (or some of us) and teach us to grow in Faith; as He did when He communicated in the past?

In these Forums many refer immediately to Scripture when answering posts or giving advice. And this is proper and good.

But in doing so, are we perhaps closing our mind to His message through other means apart from Scripture? Are we limiting Him to Scripture and using our own man-made limitations to allow Him to communicate with us?



dianetavegia -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:13:21 PM)

Scripture (GOD) tells us to test things according to scripture.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.

4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.


2 Timothy 3:14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.



TorchHeart -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:13:59 PM)

I believe that God can operate outside of Scripture in order to influence people to do His will and draw them closer to Him. Why couldn't He? In Old Testement times, God communicated directly to His people through the prophets and other manners.

I think the key thing to remember, though, is that God probably isn't going to communicate with people in a manner that CONFLICTS with Scripture.



d4nnyb0y02 -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:16:30 PM)

This is how I see scripture.

Consider a game of "telephone". No God's Word is not a game, but consider how it works.

At the beginning there is a message given, and then it is passed along to others one at a time. As it is passed along through various messengers, the message takes on a new shape, or an entirely new meaning altogether. This is what happens as God's message is passed along throughout the world... and it is a problem. This is why we need scripture.

God wrote down His message at the beginning as His message was given so that as people of good or ill intent twist, change, and misunderstand His Word... we can go back to the beginning and read His Word, which is 100% reliable every time.

And, on top of this, God is still working and speaking to us. He tells us "new things", but these will not contridict... as God does not contridict His Word. For instance, He won't tell us to never murder, but then tell us to murder when telling us a new thing. My relationship with God is such that I walk with Him, trust Him, and by His Spirit I can know which way to turn. We are imperfect, and if we are wise we will return to His Word and see if the commands we believe we are given contridict His message that He gave us at the very beginning.

This is how we test what is true and what is not true... not only by the Spirit, but by his solid, never changing Word which He spoke at the very beginning. Yes, we need it. Without it... we are lost, and will soon crumble into a massive state of confussion. HOWEVER... I think many people are guilty of turning His Word (the Bible) into the law of the OT... as the pharisees turned the law into a bunch of regulations, but were dead to the Spirit of God. We are to actively, daily, seek God if we actually want a relationship with Him. Sure, we can get by simply by obeying His Word which He has written... and this is good... but it isn't the best. The best is to go to the source, and get His Word for us today :). Then, check and see if what we are "feeling" contridicts what He has said. If it doesn't, great! We are hearing rightly!



truthrevealed -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:18:21 PM)

Funny. I think I have to respond to your question similar to how you responded to mine.......[:)]

I think I understand what you're saying.......

If you mean does God communicate to us in more than one way-yes! We do, of course know, however He communicates will be in line with scripture.

As it concerns Him speaking directly to our hearts and leading us from within, I personally believe that "recognition" of His leading from within becomes clearer the more of His word that we have hidden in our heart.



mvic -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:22:49 PM)

I agree with you Truthrevealed - He does speak to us in ways other than Scripture. As you and TorchHeart said: He will not however contradict Scripture.

However: Will He ADD to it?

Many people posting here have said: "If it's not in Scripture it is not right".

Are they correct in this assumption?



LCannon -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:25:34 PM)

Without an objective, outside source of Scripture there wouldn't be much opportunity for communal worship/service/obedience hence little growth outside a majority of two.



d4nnyb0y02 -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:34:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic

I agree with you Truthrevealed - He does speak to us in ways other than Scripture. As you and TorchHeart said: He will not however contradict Scripture.

However: Will He ADD to it?

Many people posting here have said: "If it's not in Scripture it is not right".

Are they correct in this assumption?


2 Timothy 3:16-17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

------------------------------------

I would say not only is it not right if it isn't in scripture. God had His Word written down for us for a reason--for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Two of the four things Paul mentions are corrective in nature (reproof and correction), and this speaks of God not contridicting His Word. We all agree on this. However, the other two things Paul mentions about scripture is that it is good for "doctrine," and "instruction in righteousness." These are matters of DEVELOPING our beliefs and understanding of God. So yes, if it isn't in scripture, it isn't righteous... and it isn't right.



terryjohn -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 2:37:02 PM)

Scripture is good and holy and l love it to pieces but you are right and I personally have wondered where people got the idea that scripture was the same as the word of God? I mean, Christ is said to be the word of God and as such to take the glory of christ and give it to a book or the letters of men is madness. Here we get people referring to scripture as their authority and not Chirst. I see scripture as giving very real and valuable insights into the lives of men and women who were moved by the same spirit as we are and am convinced this spirit creates in us the very mind of Christ if we are but willing. Now having been transform by the power of God into the likeness of Christ to have to run back to scripture every five mintes is like looking in a mirror only to turn around and forget what you have just seen. We are not saved by knowing scripture but by knowing Christ. Is there then a very real danger we give too much devotion to scripture as a cheap substitute for Christ? Would we rather read about Christ in scripture than be with Christ is prayer?

When you consider that much of the early church and believers had none or very very little of our new testiment it makes you wonder what they had to base their faith on apart from the old testiment. Now scripture has important value in limiting the madness and demonic ramplings of men who seek to destroy the faith of men for personal gain and I can only rejoice that there is something outside my own understanding that audits my faith, love and actions in Christ.

The one thing that really scares me, as we all know and have seen, is that men may misuse scripture and not even know they are doing so, so what chance is there of my not doing the same?



frankman -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 4:38:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic


However: Will He ADD to it?



God will not add to His already written Word as Rev.22:18 warns us we also are not to add to His Word. "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this Book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this Book." Now whether this refers to the whole of the canon of Scripture or to just the Book of Revelation we`ll debate some other time. It however does mean that books like the "Book of Mormon" or E. White`s book "The Great Controversy" etc. are never to be taken as equal or Holy Spirit-breathed like your Bible. Neither should we take any book about the Bible written by some famous author as equal to God`s Word, our Bible.

Yes, God can speak to us in many ways, but today God mostly speaks to us through His written Word and His Holy Spirit. There are many voices out there, and if they do not line up with Scripture they are not the voice of God, so therefore we want to ignore them. So in order to know the voice of God from that of those false bogus voices I must keep my eyes on the Bible continuously.

[sm=car.gif] If I want to travel by car from Fairbanks Alaska to Miami Florida I will need a good road map. Even though I may study my map at every intersection along the way, it doesn`t mean I`m worshipping my map or even trusting my map to get me there. So it is with God`s Word our Bibles. We read our Bibles daily in order to stay on the right road in this life. However our trust is completely in the blood that was shed for us on Calvary`s cross by our Savior as sufficient to get us through this life, to help us finish well and to get us into heaven when we die.



MrFribbles -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 4:42:25 PM)

Why would God need to add to Scripture? What else is there to say? We have the gospel, we have truth, we have instructions for living. Now, obviously, God can and does speak to us by and through other means. However, Scripture is that ultimately guidepost that we must measure any outside voice that enters in. If we feel led by God to proclaim, for instance, that Jesus never came in the flesh, then clearly that leading did not come from God. But if we have the attitude of "Well, it may have been in Scripture, but now God is adding to it!", then who can tell us to stop? We have, if you will, God's Word 2.0 inside us, so how dare anyone tell us we're wrong? You see where I'm going?
I'm obviously not saying you were or are doing this, mvic, but it is a potential danger of downplaying Scripture and upplaying (if that's even a proper phrase) personal revelation.



Liveloved -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 5:42:36 PM)

quote:

The chances are I'll be mis-understood. So let me make it clear:

I believe Scripture is important to help us learn and grow. The Bible was inspired by God and contains the basic principles of our Christian Faith.

Having said this: How much does God need Scripture? Can He not in this day and age communicate direct with us (or some of us) and teach us to grow in Faith; as He did when He communicated in the past?

In these Forums many refer immediately to Scripture when answering posts or giving advice. And this is proper and good.

But in doing so, are we perhaps closing our mind to His message through other means apart from Scripture? Are we limiting Him to Scripture and using our own man-made limitations to allow Him to communicate with us?


First, let me clarify that God's word is the means whereby we know Him (that and through the working of the Holy Spirit).

However, you've asked a good question and your question is based on a good observation. So I want to respond.

What I have observed is that people know the word of God but not The Word of God. They can parrot an answer from scripture yet have little or no understanding. And when you respond to a question without word for word scripture (yet expressing the same thought), there is no understanding.

What's the problem? Part of it is that our culture today is illiterate. Many are unable to read with understanding. And that includes those reading God's word.

And secondly there are those who know alot about God but do not know Him personally. Scripture isn't about what we believe. It is God's revelation of Himself. Therein lies the difference. So when He reveals Himself to a person, His word becomes The Word and is understood within the context of the living Christ.

This is not 'new' revelation but it is new to each person who experiences Christ. Psalm 119 puts it this way. For Thou Thyself hast taught me. (v102b) He gives us understanding and it is only in the context of Him that His word is alive and made alive in us and to us.

So to answer your first question. Does God need Scripture? No. Romans 1 tells us that men can know God apart from Scripture. But He obviously wants us to know Him more since He has chosen to reveal Himself to us in this way. So then the answer becomes Yes. He is a God Who wants to be known.[:)]



mvic -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 6:05:53 PM)

Thank you all for well argued and clear responses. They confirm my beliefs.

Let me tell you where I'm coming from. There are those in these Forums who literally believe every word in Scriptures. I, however, take a more liberal view - I see Scripture as inspired by God to lead me and strengthen my Faith.

For instance: Are we to believe literally that an all powerful and almighty God, having created the whole universe and what's in it, needed a bone from the side of a man to make a woman; or are we to believe that He really needed a rest on the 7th day?

I prefer to see this as a story, inspired by God, written by a writer in such simple terms that his audience at the time would easily understand the fact that there is a Creator God who made us all.

Had the writer said God created the whole universe and what's in it in a split second; his audience at the time would have been perplexed and confused. So he wrote it in simple terms - a parable you might say.

Am I wrong? Or did it really happen one day at a time, and with the help of a bone?

I can mention other examples which similarly need not be taken literally.



MrFribbles -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/29/2008 6:17:32 PM)

quote:

Are we to believe literally that an all powerful and almighty God, having created the whole universe and what's in it, needed a bone from the side of a man to make a woman; or are we to believe that He really needed a rest on the 7th day?


God certainly didn't need to take a part of Adam (I've heard the translation as "rib" is questionable, since the word is meant to refer to the side of a person, not necessarily their rib) to make Eve, but it makes sense. He wasn't creating a whole new thing - He was creating a complement for the male half of humanity.
As for the resting, God didn't rest as we do, in the sense that He was tired. Rather, He took a day to step back and enjoy His creation. It shows completion, and it sets the example for us, in that we are designed to need a day of rest. Hence that whole Sabbath thing.

So, while your views certainly aren't heretical, and you aren't denying essential truths of Scripture, I would say there's no reason the creation narrative needs to be taken as a parable. The style certainly suggests a recording of history, not that of telling a story.



Lynn_J -> RE: Does God need Scripture? (9/30/2008 10:12:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mvic



quote:

Had the writer said God created the whole universe and what's in it in a split second; his audience at the time would have been perplexed and confused. So he wrote it in simple terms - a parable you might say.



I personally do not think it was a parable, because whenever something was a parable or an example, it is stated as such.

God reveals Himself to us in many ways. Indirect revelation comes through nature and the natural order of things that speak of a higher power. The Bible is God's direct revelation to us, and it carries authority because God is the author, the one who inspired the writers to write. Jesus came as God's Word in the flesh, the fulfillment of God's revelation of the salvation story. The Holy Spirit speaks to our hearts and our minds, further revealing things of God to us. All of these are in harmony with one another, and with Scripture, to represent the ways in which God speaks to the human race.

Peace,
Lynn



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