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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/24/2008 3:57:40 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
YEAH!!! AMEN!!!!!
Aren't we suppose to hate the sin... but LOVE the sinner???
The problem I find is thet the way some want to "Love" the sinner is to condone and encourage thier sin.
If one really loves a person, they will do every Scriptural thing they can to get the person away from the sin and into the God mandated realm of Sanctification and Holiness.
Thanks
RC
I do agree with the fact that we are not to encourage the sin... but we need to forgive as we have been forgiven.
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/24/2008 4:31:56 PM
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Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
YEAH!!! AMEN!!!!!
Aren't we suppose to hate the sin... but LOVE the sinner???
The problem I find is thet the way some want to "Love" the sinner is to condone and encourage thier sin.
If one really loves a person, they will do every Scriptural thing they can to get the person away from the sin and into the God mandated realm of Sanctification and Holiness.
Thanks
RC
I do agree with the fact that we are not to encourage the sin... but we need to forgive as we have been forgiven.
Good point! It seems the 2 exteme opposites of thought are this - 1) Forgiveness and compassion are paramount to condoning the girl's sin and 2) Forgiveness and compassion could be taken too far to where it could be taken as condoning the sin.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/24/2008 4:37:07 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 7416
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: pstrdebi
YEAH!!! AMEN!!!!!
Aren't we suppose to hate the sin... but LOVE the sinner???
The problem I find is the the way some want to "Love" the sinner is to condone and encourage their sin.
If one really loves a person, they will do every Scriptural thing they can to get the person away from the sin and into the God mandated realm of Sanctification and Holiness.
Thanks
RC
I do agree with the fact that we are not to encourage the sin... but we need to forgive as we have been forgiven.
Bringing this back to topic (I think)......
The young lady in question did not sin against us. She has sinned against the young man, the baby and herself. She has sinned against the youth group by setting a bad example. She has sinned against God.
They may have forgiven her. However, she still must repent.
_____________________________
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/24/2008 4:50:00 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
Bringing this back to topic (I think)......
The young lady in question did not sin against us. She has sinned against the young man, the baby and herself. She has sinned against the youth group by setting a bad example. She has sinned against God.
They may have forgiven her. However, she still must repent.
Good points.
I do not think she ask the Chruch or youth group to forgive her bad witness; it seems to me she got all huffy when they would not give permission for the Chruch to be used by her for a party and shopped around until she found one that would.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/24/2008 9:59:57 PM
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myka
Posts: 814
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quote:
Now of course there are some who sins are not public (at least at first) but those sins will be shouted from the rooftops. And them repentance must take place or they are no longer welcome in the fellowship of the Church.
There are plenty of sins that never become public (heart attitudes, thoughts about other etc). Are the people who have not repented of those sins (private ones that no one else would know about) welcome in the fellowship of the church?
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 12:20:17 AM
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myka
Posts: 814
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The question is not about worship in the church, but about who we welcome in the church building. I am confused about whether it is just public sins that have to be repented of before the believers are welcome to use the church building. It seemed like the public sins were the ones that were specifically addressed as needing a public 'repentance' of some sort before believers were 'restored' to fellowship.
It is in response to this statement:
quote:
Now of course there are some who sins are not public (at least at first) but those sins will be shouted from the rooftops. And them repentance must take place or they are no longer welcome in the fellowship of the Church.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 12:38:57 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
I think we were all just reminded by the Mod, that this thread is not about who we allow to worship in church. (Post 444) I sure would appreciate staying on topic.
I am no longer replying to those who go off topic and your post is. Thanks! No hard feelings. This thread is about a pregnant girl who is not married and does not want to change her way of life and wanted a shower in the church but the ladies did not give her one so she went away and now the OP wants to know what we think about that and you can read his posts....he even posted yesterday or the day before and that is what we are discussing and enough rabbit trails have already been spun off this thread and sorry I don't want to follow the white rabbit anymore even if it does lead to wonderland..........
< Message edited by solarflare -- 10/25/2008 12:46:39 AM >
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 12:45:28 AM
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Kath
Posts: 16988
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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quote:
I am confused about whether it is just public sins that have to be repented of before the believers are welcome to use the church building.
It is not relevant to this discussion. The girl in the OP is not a believer.
quote:
The question is not about worship in the church, but about who we welcome in the church building.
Actually, no it isn't. The girl was welcome in the building, when she was younger she was going to youth group and was not a believer. The problem came when she wanted to hold her baby shower in the church. I don't read anything in the OP about her being barred from attending services. I have read the other posts in this thread from the OP and it wasn't mentioned, just that she loves her sin.
The issue is, were the women right/wrong for not throwing a party for an unwed mother? Was the pastor right/wrong for not standing up to these women.
Please stick to the topic. If you wish to discuss who is worthy to worship in church, start another thread. Further off topic posts will be deleted and reports filed against your account.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
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< Message edited by Kath -- 10/25/2008 2:11:48 PM >
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 10:46:57 AM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
he issue is, were the women right/wrong for not throwing a party for an unwed mother? Was the pastor right/wrong for not standing up to these women.
Of those two, who is more responsible for taking a stand....the Pastor, who is fairly new according to the OP? Or the ladies who had been there longer?
My belief is in order to be fair to everyone there should be a policy in writing agreed on by the Pastor and the Board on terms of using church facilities for such events. All fees, if any, should be clearly stated in the policy as well....thus avoiding situations such as the one being discussed here.
In this case, such there was no contract/policy I do believe it is the Pastor's place to take a stand. New or not he committed to overseeing the church the day he said "Yes".
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 12:01:18 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2296
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
Status: offline
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quote:
She wanted to have her baby shower at the church.
quote:
The girl originally wanted to use the church space.
I told her probably not, and that I would see if the church women will hold a shower for her.
The girl wanted the use of the space for a shower, she didn't want the ladies to "throw her a party".
_____________________________
<-- Squirt
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
....Thomas Jefferson
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 12:44:31 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
The girl wanted the use of the space for a shower, she didn't want the ladies to "throw her a party".
You are correct Memaw, she did not ask the ladies to throw her a party; she wanted to use the Church to have a party in;
She probably should have ask one of the Elders, or the Pastor.
As a matter of fact, she did not ask the ladies; she ask the youth leader to intercede for her.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 1:36:40 PM
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Memaw.
Posts: 2296
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Sunflower State
Status: offline
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quote:
As a matter of fact, she did not ask the ladies; she ask the youth leader to intercede for her.
RC,
No, you are incorrect.
According to the youth pastor (OP) he said he would see if the ladies would host one for her. There was not mention of it being her idea to approach the ladies.
_____________________________
<-- Squirt
A government big enough to give you everything you want,
is strong enough to take everything you have.
....Thomas Jefferson
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 1:58:01 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 676
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: offline
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quote:
My belief is in order to be fair to everyone there should be a policy in writing agreed on by the Pastor and the Board on terms of using church facilities for such events. All fees, if any, should be clearly stated in the policy as well....thus avoiding situations such as the one being discussed here.
In this case, such there was no contract/policy I do believe it is the Pastor's place to take a stand. New or not he committed to overseeing the church the day he said "Yes".
well said!
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 2:13:59 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16988
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Memaw.
quote:
She wanted to have her baby shower at the church.
quote:
The girl originally wanted to use the church space.
I told her probably not, and that I would see if the church women will hold a shower for her.
The girl wanted the use of the space for a shower, she didn't want the ladies to "throw her a party".
Thank you, I corrected my nudge.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 3:57:10 PM
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myka
Posts: 814
Status: offline
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I think that there was at the least poor communication in many instances in this case (I also think that the concept of what comes out of our mouth reflects our heart attitudes). I am hoping and praying that this incident does not harden her heart in such a way that it becomes a stumbling block to her receiving Christ.
I also think that we as believers need to be aware of how we present the truth to others; speaking the truth in love.
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/25/2008 11:32:28 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
I also think that we as believers need to be aware of how we present the truth to others; speaking the truth in love.
I agree...but isn't part of the problem here some seem to think that the women who said "no" could not possibly have any love for this girl....
or at least that is the way some are coming across....
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/27/2008 10:34:56 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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This, is from the OP's last post, #413
quote:
This girl is not saved, and to date is still unrepentant. She has not been to church since. I continue to talk to her and occasionally meet with her. The baby is almost here and I plan to speak with her again soon and make that "beeline to the cross" with the conversation.
It was hard to judge her response to the first conversation about repentance. She is a sinner who loves her sin. We all were at some point.
There is a game night saturday. I have thought about bringing her and seeing what the ladies would do, but I don't know if she would want to come. To this date, (as far as I know) the women of the church haven't stepped up. And if the men have to step up instead then the baby will just get used to having a bunch of mismatched socks.
The girl had her shower in another church. In fact, the OP tells us she FOUND another church which indicates she went after what she wanted and got it. She did not feel so 'rejected' that she turned from church. Nope, she just went and found another one to give her what she wanted.
In lieu of that FACT, that makes the following somewhat negligible IMO:
quote:
I am hoping and praying that this incident does not harden her heart in such a way that it becomes a stumbling block to her receiving Christ. The pastor's son continues to reach out to her. Probably because he also was involved in this type of sin (IMO)
I also think that we as believers need to be aware of how we present the truth to others; speaking the truth in love.
I think believers are well aware about speaking the truth in love. The problem I have found on this thread, is that love is misrepresented (IMO)
It is not love to condemn the Christian ladies at the church who just did not find it in themselves to deal with the situation. The OP states they were disappointed with her etc. which indicates they had dealt with her and had accepted her and she badly disappointed them. ie: she wanted a church family (unconditional love) and wanted to keep sinning, which, they did not agree with. Small church: about 50 people. Everybody knows everyone.
So, I think, as believers, we should have discernment when it comes to how to 'love' and not just dish it out like candies. God loves this girl more than any of us ever will. God also loves the Christian women who said "NO" by their actions if not by their words. The pastor's son states that the girl knows all about her need to accept Christ. Some people responding on this thread continue to indicate that the girl may have 'missed' her 'chance' to come to salvation. She knows all about it. She knows where to 'find' love.....she went to another church. She knows why the ladies did not want to give her a shower. It's a church of 50 people....
Why do I bother to continue to post here? I think the facts are misconstrued to fit in with (the popular) idealogical representation of love as expressed on this thread, when some say the women missed their chance. No they did not....they knew the girl or they would not have been disappointed in her. I think that the only one who really missed the boat is the girl.
I'm just really kind of fed up with Christians being dumped on because they take a stand against sin. I don't think the women hated the girl or wanted to punish her. They came to the end of what they were willing to put up with in this girl and the pastor did nothing. I don't think it was an ideal situation and I don't think it right to do nothing. Again (for the umpteeth time) a home would have been appropriate.
I realize someone will come along and disagree. That is an old drum and I am tired of the sound of it. The only way, IMO, someone could continue to say the women missed their 'chance' is if they continue to put aside the facts in favor of conjecture. These women would not have convinced her to accept Christ anymore than she previously had. The girl up and found another church. Does that sound to you like someone who had been so disappointed in Christians she turned from Christ? No, sounds more like someone who knew where to get what she wanted. If you think I am harsh, you do not understand the mindset of sinners. Frankly, I am starting to have trouble understanding the mindset of some Christians.
Truly, I am now done posting here. It's been quite a ride. 
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/27/2008 12:28:45 PM
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myka
Posts: 814
Status: offline
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quote:
The OP states they were disappointed with her etc. which indicates they had dealt with her and had accepted her and she badly disappointed them. ie: she wanted a church family (unconditional love) and wanted to keep sinning, which, they did not agree with. Small church: about 50 people. Everybody knows everyone.
Being disappointed in someone doesn't necessarily mean that they had accepted her. Many youth groups are separate from church activities, so just because it is a small church doesn't mean that everyone knows everyone else.
It is sad that Christians would be disappointed in nonbelievers for sinning (how in the world are they supposed to 'resist' without the help of the Holy Spirit?).
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RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/27/2008 5:03:34 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm just really kind of fed up with Christians being dumped on because they take a stand against sin.
I have never agreed with any statement on this forum as much as I do the one above. I feel you on that one solar and am SICK and TIRED of that myself esp. when it comes to what the Bible clearly says is SIN.
It's a backwards time we live in now...the church condems those who stand for righteousness as much as the world does. That is because there are a lot of people playing church but the true Church, the Bride of Christ is still calling sin SIN.
As far as I am concerned it's time the gloves come off and we stop acting scared to call sin what it is an abomination to the Lord Almighty the Holy One and stop allowing our sanctuaries to be filled with that which is unclean and allow them to think God is suddenly excusing sin. He isn't.
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