|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/27/2008 5:56:42 PM
|
|
|
Kath
Posts: 16985
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
Truly, I am now done posting here. It's been quite a ride.
That's too bad, because you won't know I agree with you.
If the church rents or lets other non believers use the church, then I don't see how they could have said no. I have no idea if that is the case or not. If not, then no, a shower should not have been at the church building.
I would not have been involved in any group of women actually having the shower for her, not even in a private home. If I knew her personally I'd probably have given her a gift after the baby was born but not gotten involved with a shower. I don't see a reason to celebrate having a baby outside of marriage with a party.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/27/2008 10:14:12 PM
|
|
|
bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
|
Not only was this an act of passing judgement on the girl, as well as an act of unforgiveness, but it was a lost opportunity to show love for the lost, and a chance to lead her into right relation with God. When the church is turning it's back on the lost, it makes me feel like the church is the ones who are lost.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/28/2008 12:27:26 AM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7416
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:
Truly, I am now done posting here. It's been quite a ride.
That's too bad, because you won't know I agree with you.
If the church rents or lets other non believers use the church, then I don't see how they could have said no. I have no idea if that is the case or not. If not, then no, a shower should not have been at the church building.
I would not have been involved in any group of women actually having the shower for her, not even in a private home. If I knew her personally I'd probably have given her a gift after the baby was born but not gotten involved with a shower. I don't see a reason to celebrate having a baby outside of marriage with a party.
me too.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/28/2008 8:38:00 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
Not only was this an act of passing judgement on the girl, as well as an act of unforgiveness, but it was a lost opportunity to show love for the lost, and a chance to lead her into right relation with God. When the church is turning it's back on the lost, it makes me feel like the church is the ones who are lost.
This brings us back to the proposition of "What is showing love"?
Does patting someone on the head, and even throwing them a party when they have obviously been in sin and are not repentant a show of love or a show of acceptance of their sin. It appears to me it is an acceptance of their sin.
The Youth leader said he went to the young woman and she had no interest in repenting and turning to Christ, so that pretty much clears up where she is at.
Does showing someone the error of their ways by using Scriptural reference and trying to lead them out of the sin and certain eternal death and into the Family of God show love?
In my humble opinion accectping sin, looking past sin, and permitting sin to be in the Church (member or not) does nothing but foster more sin.
Church by definition is a "Gathering of the Saints" and unrepentent unsaved sinners are not Saints.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/28/2008 9:51:41 AM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Not only was this an act of passing judgement on the girl, as well as an act of unforgiveness, but it was a lost opportunity to show love for the lost, and a chance to lead her into right relation with God. When the church is turning it's back on the lost, it makes me feel like the church is the ones who are lost.
You just passed judgment yourself by typing that. GOD is the one who said sex outside of marriage is a sin. I don't think I need to type that here to make it true.
If the girl was wanting a relationship with the Lord wouldn't she be asking for prayer instead of a party?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 1:52:16 PM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
** Sigh **
You know, this girl could have easily gotten an abortion, but chose not to. It appears that she is taking responsibility for her actions, carrying this baby to term and raising the child. Doesn't this speak volumes? I mean, here she is, doing the right thing, and still, she's being put down for fornication.
Now, granted, to our knowledge, she has not repented. But I think to turn backs on her for fornication isn't right, either. Instead, she should be getting encouragement for not taking the easy way out (i.e., abortion). But who's to say that a little compassion from other Christians wouldn't help her repent? We are ambassadors for Christ, after all.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 2:02:07 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
** Sigh **
You know, this girl could have easily gotten an abortion, but chose not to. It appears that she is taking responsibility for her actions, carrying this baby to term and raising the child. Doesn't this speak volumes? I mean, here she is, doing the right thing, and still, she's being put down for fornication.
Now, granted, to our knowledge, she has not repented. But I think to turn backs on her for fornication isn't right, either. Instead, she should be getting encouragement for not taking the easy way out (i.e., abortion). But who's to say that a little compassion from other Christians wouldn't help her repent? We are ambassadors for Christ, after all.
Ok, let's say that someone who attends Church for a few years, but does not repent or get saved; molests a young child.
The predator decided not to kill the child for whatever reason, but according to all available information they continue to refuse the saving grace of Christ and do not repent.
So the Church should throw them a birthday pary or make him Sunday School Superintendant because he limited the amount of sin he was in.
Dear Lord help us to read the New Testament on how handle sin in the Church.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 2:10:24 PM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
** Sigh **
You know, this girl could have easily gotten an abortion, but chose not to. It appears that she is taking responsibility for her actions, carrying this baby to term and raising the child. Doesn't this speak volumes? I mean, here she is, doing the right thing, and still, she's being put down for fornication.
Now, granted, to our knowledge, she has not repented. But I think to turn backs on her for fornication isn't right, either. Instead, she should be getting encouragement for not taking the easy way out (i.e., abortion). But who's to say that a little compassion from other Christians wouldn't help her repent? We are ambassadors for Christ, after all.
Ok, let's say that someone who attends Church for a few years, but does not repent or get saved; molests a young child.
They dicided not to kill the child for whatever reason, but according to all available information they refuse the saving grace of Christ and do not repent.
So the Church should throw them a birthday pary or make him Sunday School Superintendant because he limited the amount of sin he was in.
Dear Lord help us to read the New Testament on how handle sin in the Church.
Thanks
RC
RC,
I think you misunderstood what I wrote here, and I'll take the fault for that since it was written the way it was.
I'm not saying to have the shower in the Church (that issue has been beaten to death here already). What I'm getting at is what certain individuals have stated here about not even going to a shower at a private home. The non-attending of a private shower would imply a message of "you're not welcome around me". I don't believe that Jesus would want to send that message. Based upon my readings of the Gospels where Jesus was invited to dinner with tax collectors and prostitutes and other people of ill-will, I would think that Jesus would attend the shower and then tell her to repent.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 2:16:34 PM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
You know, this girl could have easily gotten an abortion, but chose not to.
Yes, and she could have also easily chosen not to have sex outside of marriage.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 2:31:31 PM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
You know, this girl could have easily gotten an abortion, but chose not to.
Yes, and she could have also easily chosen not to have sex outside of marriage.
That's true, but what's done is done. So I guess the choice for her is, does she keep the baby (which she obviously has) and get chastized for fornication, or does she abort the baby privately (with nobody's knowledge) and nobody would view her differently?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 2:32:59 PM
|
|
|
Roberta_
Posts: 7416
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
You know, this girl could have easily gotten an abortion, but chose not to.
Yes, and she could have also easily chosen not to have sex outside of marriage.
That's true, but what's done is done. So I guess the choice for her is, does she keep the baby (which she obviously has) and get chastized for fornication, or does she abort the baby privately (with nobody's knowledge) and nobody would view her differently?
She could also decide to place the baby for adoption.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 2:34:11 PM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
You know, this girl could have easily gotten an abortion, but chose not to.
Yes, and she could have also easily chosen not to have sex outside of marriage.
That's true, but what's done is done. So I guess the choice for her is, does she keep the baby (which she obviously has) and get chastized for fornication, or does she abort the baby privately (with nobody's knowledge) and nobody would view her differently?
She could also decide to place the baby for adoption.
Yes, she can. But she would still be remembered for fornication, at least by some people here.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 3:05:22 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Yes, she can. But she would still be remembered for fornication, at least by some people here.
Not if she repents and accepts Christ as her Lord and Savior!!!!!
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/31/2008 9:31:50 PM
|
|
|
Kath
Posts: 16985
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Yes, she can. But she would still be remembered for fornication, at least by some people here.
Not if she repents and accepts Christ as her Lord and Savior!!!!!
quote:
Yes, she can. But she would still be remembered for fornication, at least by some people here.
You are wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/1/2008 4:53:58 PM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Yes, she can. But she would still be remembered for fornication, at least by some people here.
Not if she repents and accepts Christ as her Lord and Savior!!!!!
Thanks
RC
RC, judging by your many posts here and on other topics, I have no doubt at all that you would accept her if she repented. I'm not so sure about others here.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/1/2008 11:24:07 PM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
That's true, but what's done is done. So I guess the choice for her is, does she keep the baby (which she obviously has) and get chastized for fornication, or does she abort the baby privately (with nobody's knowledge) and nobody would view her differently?
I don't know that anyone has chastised her. Or that anyone would know of her decision to have an abortion...but it seems likely someone would know.... but neither of those things have anything to do with the fact she is free to accept Christ with or without a baby shower.
It really means nothing what people accept here. What does the Lord accept? There are a lot of people in church every week, but that does not mean they are accepted by Him.
My concern is why is the church refusal to sponsor her shower judged by some as a reason why she wouldn't be saved.
It sounds like she went to another church and found what she wanted...someone to give her a shower...but what about her soul?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/2/2008 8:28:01 AM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1863
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Why don't you start a thread on who denies forgiveness given them through Christ by not forgiving a person who repents of their sin. Why don't you just start that thread and we'll see how people respond and then you won't have to worry about anyone else's heart.
Is there any person who can forbid forgiveness? My Bible tells me "whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".....but then in this case the op never said the girl asked for forgiveness....she wanted a baby shower.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/2/2008 9:57:03 AM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Consider this a cameo.... 
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Yes, she can. But she would still be remembered for fornication, at least by some people here.
Not if she repents and accepts Christ as her Lord and Savior!!!!!
Thanks
RC
RC, judging by your many posts here and on other topics, I have no doubt at all that you would accept her if she repented. I'm not so sure about others here.
Dear Mark328
Why don't you start a thread on who denies forgiveness given them through Christ by not forgiving a person who repents of their sin. Why don't you just start that thread and we'll see how people respond and then you won't have to worry about anyone else's heart. 
Solarflare,
I wasn't talking forgiveness, I was talking acceptance. There was a similar situation at my church where a girl from youth group got pregnant. Now, the shower was NOT held at the church, but at the home of the girl's mother. This girl was repentant, she was a believer, but like all of us believers, she stumbled and sinned. She prayed with the pastor and asked for forgiveness of her sins, and was forgiven by the pastoral staff (this is at a megachurch, so the staff was pretty extensive). Many (not all) of the ladies at church had nothing to do with her after that, even after she had repented.
That was the point I was trying to make - even if this girl mentioned by the OP has repented, how many would truly accept that? It was intended as a hypothetical question.
I'm not "worried" about everyone's heart, per se. But when things like this happen, it should give people in the congregation time to reflect on the situation, and examine their own hearts. Worrying about other's hearts isn't up to me, that is God's job.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/2/2008 11:01:43 AM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
I wasn't talking forgiveness, I was talking acceptance. There was a similar situation at my church where a girl from youth group got pregnant. Now, the shower was NOT held at the church, but at the home of the girl's mother. This girl was repentant, she was a believer, but like all of us believers, she stumbled and sinned. She prayed with the pastor and asked for forgiveness of her sins, and was forgiven by the pastoral staff (this is at a megachurch, so the staff was pretty extensive). Many (not all) of the ladies at church had nothing to do with her after that, even after she had repented.
Then your Pastor and the leadership has failed in their calling and duty to teach the congregation the truth of Scripture.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/2/2008 11:03:17 AM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
I wasn't talking forgiveness, I was talking acceptance. There was a similar situation at my church where a girl from youth group got pregnant. Now, the shower was NOT held at the church, but at the home of the girl's mother. This girl was repentant, she was a believer, but like all of us believers, she stumbled and sinned. She prayed with the pastor and asked for forgiveness of her sins, and was forgiven by the pastoral staff (this is at a megachurch, so the staff was pretty extensive). Many (not all) of the ladies at church had nothing to do with her after that, even after she had repented.
Then your Pastor and the leadership has failed in their calling and duty to teach the congragation the truth of Scripture.
Thanks
RC
Absolutely RC, you're right on that. I left the church a few months after that. Scriptural truths were being distorted there, and this wasn't the only time.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/2/2008 3:14:45 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Absolutely RC, you're right on that. I left the church a few months after that. Scriptural truths were being distorted there, and this wasn't the only time.
Good; up to a point, should you have gone back with thier failings to teach the truch.
I am really not trying to be a hardnose, but is it the responsibility of leadership to lead.
We will probab;u get "Spanked" for not staying to the subject, but Lordy do some Pastors and leaders not know that we are held responsible for what we teach.
(Heb 13:17) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
All of us ministers, teachers, leaders, etc. will answer to God for the truthfullness and fullness of what we teach.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 11/2/2008 3:58:46 PM
|
|
|
Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Absolutely RC, you're right on that. I left the church a few months after that. Scriptural truths were being distorted there, and this wasn't the only time.
Good; up to a point, should you have gone back with thier failings to teach the truch.
I am really not trying to be a hardnose, but is it the responsibility of leadership to lead.
We will probab;u get "Spanked" for not staying to the subject, but Lordy do some Pastors and leaders not know that we are held responsible for what we teach.
(Heb 13:17) Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
All of us ministers, teachers, leaders, etc. will answer to God for the truthfullness and fullness of what we teach.
Thsnks
RC
Well, RC, I'm not a pastor or minister. I've only been a Christian for 4 years. The church I attended had many "established" people there for many years. I did try to make points, but was scoffed for being "too new".
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
