|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 4:56:03 PM
|
|
|
LaurainAL
Posts: 1266
Joined: 8/13/2005
Status: offline
|
Laura agrees with Laura. Newborns care only about being fed, changed and sleeping. The cute clothes and diaper bags are for the Mommy.
_____________________________
Life Trumps Choice
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 5:33:09 PM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
Laura agrees with Laura. Newborns care only about being fed, changed and sleeping. The cute clothes and diaper bags are for the Mommy.
If this very young mother doesn't have formula and bottles (in the off chance she doesn't nurse) for feeding the baby, diapers so she can change the baby, clothing for the baby to wear, and a crib/bassinet for the baby to sleep in (and these are a lot of the things new mom's get at showers), then it isn't about the Mother only, it's definitely about the baby and it's needs.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 6:33:38 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 2395
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
Laura agrees with Laura. Newborns care only about being fed, changed and sleeping. The cute clothes and diaper bags are for the Mommy.
If this very young mother doesn't have formula and bottles (in the off chance she doesn't nurse) for feeding the baby, diapers so she can change the baby, clothing for the baby to wear, and a crib/bassinet for the baby to sleep in (and these are a lot of the things new mom's get at showers), then it isn't about the Mother only, it's definitely about the baby and it's needs.
In addition, a single, unwed, teenage mother typically has financial needs . . . this is a way to help provide the best home environment for the child, which is, afterall, a duty of the church, IMO.
_____________________________
love.ben
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 6:57:20 PM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4246
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
|
I think there are a lot of assumptions being made in this thread. This is all we know about the situation, based on raptorman's three posts:
1) pregnant teen is long time attender, but not a member or saved
2) She wanted to have her baby shower at the church. (We don't know if she wanted the church to throw her a shower or just let her have the space.)
3) Some of the women said no way! They were so disapointed in her etc... --> raptorman told them it may be the last opportunity that we have to witness to her and love her and bring her closer to them (we don't know why he thought that to be true)
4) The church leaders didn't say yes or no. They did nothing. Eventually the girl gave up and found another church where she could have the shower. (Again, did she want the space or did she find a church to give her a shower? Two very different things.)
5) Parents are not saved and live in a small house. (Although, I've been to some showers at very small houses. This statement makes me think she just wanted the space.)
6) raptorman has talked to the girl about repentance and she apparently isn't interested in that at this time
7) raptorman thinks this is a crisis case, based on mental issues of the teen and the baby at risk for Down's Syndrome. (Does a "crisis" case change whether the shower is held at a church building? Not really.)
I have zero problem with someone who is not a member not being allowed to have a shower in a church building. Many churches have such rules, including for weddings and funerals. A lot of churches here won't let you use their building for a wedding unless you go through several weeks of premarital counseling with one of their ministers. That keeps most everyone who isn't a member from even trying to have a wedding in one of those buildings. The real question here is whether the girl wanted to have the space for free to have a shower, or if the girl wanted the women of the church to host a shower for her. In either regard, it boils down to whether the women of the church wanted to reach out and make sure the baby was cared for; and if not, why?
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 7:08:29 PM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1775
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
I have also said the leadership really dropped the ball on this one.
I don't think it is a duty to give parties in the church . Minister to the need, yes, but that can be done in many ways.
I also think a good point was made in that the shower itself caters to the woman and not the baby. Gifts can be given for the baby at any time.
As a Leader my concern would be for this girl's soul, and for guidance in helping her make better choices from this time forward.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 7:27:08 PM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
I have also said the leadership really dropped the ball on this one.
I don't think it is a duty to give parties in the church . Minister to the need, yes, but that can be done in many ways.
I also think a good point was made in that the shower itself caters to the woman and not the baby. Gifts can be given for the baby at any time.
As a Leader my concern would be for this girl's soul, and for guidance in helping her make better choices from this time forward.
Okay, enough with making this about the shower already!! Sheeeesh!!!
The point is that the women in question (women's council of the church) did not wish to make any attempt to minister to this girl through any means because of their hardened hearts towards her and her sin, period!!! And that the pastor did nothing about it.
Can you understand that?
< Message edited by Kat_D -- 10/3/2008 7:35:17 PM >
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 7:30:05 PM
|
|
|
stellaluna
Posts: 4246
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
|
That's what I just said. But until raptorman comes back, there isn't an explanation beyond they were disappointed. He seems to think it was mostly about having the shower at the church, but I don't really think it's about that.
_____________________________
Who should be allowed to attend church?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 7:39:44 PM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
That's what I just said. But until raptorman comes back, there isn't an explanation beyond they were disappointed. He seems to think it was mostly about having the shower at the church, but I don't really think it's about that.
Yes, I know you get it, Stella. Thanks!
If it were just about having the shower at the church building, the women would have picked up the ball and ministered to her in some other way or at some other place. Raptorman did not mention anything about that, so I assumed that was the end of it because he said the girl went to another church...a church that saw nothing wrong with having a shower for her in their building.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 9:38:30 PM
|
|
|
rafterman
Posts: 15
Joined: 9/19/2005
Status: offline
|
The girl originally wanted to use the church space.
I told her probably not, and that I would see if the church women will hold a shower for her.
She doesn't live at parents. And the parents house is not suited.
In the pastor's defence he was only pastor for about 2 months when this came about. And felt that it was the people who have been at the church for years to take the initiative on this.
_____________________________
"my concern is not that God is on our side, but that we are on His" abe lincoln
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/3/2008 10:32:08 PM
|
|
|
Kat_D
Posts: 3144
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
|
Thanks, Rafterman, and please excuse me for calling you Raptorman...I must have confused you with some super hero or something! 
Anyhow, thanks for the info on your pastor. I understand now why he wanted the women to decide what to do.
Since, after reading your last post, it is likely that this girl doesn't have much parental support if any, it makes me even sadder for her and even more sure that the women of your church could have helped her in so many ways. I'm so glad you were there to minister to her for the time she was in the youth group.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/4/2008 2:25:06 AM
|
|
|
smilindon
Posts: 5
Joined: 10/2/2008
Status: offline
|
It hurts me to think there are Churches out there that turn people away. As Christians we are commanded to "love thy neighbor as thy self." Jesus said of the woman caught in adultry "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", "as well as Judge not lest thee be Judged." If a congregation would have a question like this I think they should seek the Lord in prayer and ask themselves; What would Jesus do? And I am most positive that the Holy Spirit will guide them to do the right thing. God Bless.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/6/2008 9:52:51 AM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: smilindon
It hurts me to think there are Churches out there that turn people away. As Christians we are commanded to "love thy neighbor as thy self." Jesus said of the woman caught in adultry "let he who is without sin cast the first stone", "as well as Judge not lest thee be Judged." If a congregation would have a question like this I think they should seek the Lord in prayer and ask themselves; What would Jesus do? And I am most positive that the Holy Spirit will guide them to do the right thing. God Bless.
Please look at the context and situation of the verses you just used. They have nothing at all to do with what we are talking about.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 12:49:35 PM
|
|
|
myka
Posts: 810
Status: offline
|
quote:
Please look at the context and situation of the verses you just used. They have nothing at all to do with what we are talking about.
Are you saying that the greatest commandment does not apply in this situation?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 2:06:34 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 5650
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
Are you saying that the greatest commandment does not apply in this situation?
I guess that would depend on one's definition of "Love".
And I must ask; is condoning and celebrating the sin of a lost person really what love is all about?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 2:28:43 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 2395
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
I guess, in this specific case, the intentions need to just be clear . .
"We love you as a person, and will help you to support and raise your child, but you must know our stance on the sin you committed and your need of a savior . .. "
_____________________________
love.ben
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 2:43:18 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4278
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
|
quote:
"We love you as a person, and will help you to support and raise your child, but you must know our stance on the sin you committed and your need of a savior . .. "
Not addressing the poster, only the quote cause I think it's a fairly standard quote we give:
I would think that to a non-believer, this statement can be confusing...albeit extremely accurate imo - but non-believers don't seem to understand grace.
you love me (but really it's the baby you love)
you'll help me (but no one can know)
and you'll do it how? (by making it conditional)
you're disappointed and will only help in secret (fear of man)
but you love me (really  )
How does this truly get walked out with God the one getting all the glory?
It's more than a shower, it's more than one phone call and it's certainly more than showing someone the door.
One woman could've made such a difference in this situation...just one
I would think that this situation is one we could all bring back to our respective churches/homes and use for further discussion about how and why we serve our people.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 2:58:57 PM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 2395
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
I didn't mean to actually say that quote to them.
I meant it as the attitude to take on. The actions will be much clearer than my words.
_____________________________
love.ben
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 3:39:00 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4278
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
I didn't mean to actually say that quote to them.
I meant it as the attitude to take on. The actions will be much clearer than my words.
I know...I mean not to assume I know you very well...but still, I think we do say the very same thing to many people but we rarely take the time to back it up with anything remotely substantial. And when I say "we" I mean the universal body of Christ, not like it's just me and you or...
I made it worse huh? 
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 4:00:42 PM
|
|
|
myka
Posts: 810
Status: offline
|
quote:
One woman could've made such a difference in this situation...just one
Absolutely, if just one person would have done the right thing...
It's interesting when we say love the sinner, but hate the sin. When we add that but in there, everything before that word is discounted in the listener's mind.
quote:
And I must ask; is condoning and celebrating the sin of a lost person really what love is all about?
I don't see how you are equating having a baby shower at the church with celebrating sin. And this young woman has chosen to carry the child to term -- that is something to celebrate when I'm sure that she has had pressure not to continue the pregnancy.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 4:03:55 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: myka
quote:
Please look at the context and situation of the verses you just used. They have nothing at all to do with what we are talking about.
Are you saying that the greatest commandment does not apply in this situation?
First, RC is right - the love promoted by many people is not the same love found in scripture. Second, if we read the account of the woman taken in adultery we see the Pharisees brought the woman to be stoned (to test Christ), but they did not bring the man. The law states that both must be put to death. So, the Phaisees had sinned - they had broken the same law they now tested Christ with. This is why Jesus told them that, if they were without sin, to cast the first stone - because He (the writer of scripture) knew would be breaking the law twice in one instance, thus pointing out their original sin of not bringing them both.
This does not mean we shoudl not, with the right heart and spirit, point out sin and deal with it in a scriptural manner.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 4:08:17 PM
|
|
|
myka
Posts: 810
Status: offline
|
What about the "love your neighbor as yourself" passage? The religious leaders were looking for a loophole in the law so that they could continue thinking that they were oh so righteous when they were actually sinful and really didn't get the whole spirit of the Law.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: unwed, pregnant, teenager - 10/7/2008 4:13:04 PM
|
|
|
doinkdom
Posts: 4278
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
This does not mean we shoudl not, with the right heart and spirit, point out sin and deal with it in a scriptural manner.
I know this sounds like nit-picking and I genuinely do not mean for it to...
the above statement certainly applies to our fellow brothers/sisters and I am totally on board with that, but can it really apply to non-believers if the truth is not in them? They need the whole gospel.
I suppose I am thinking that fine...no shower inside the church - whatever...but isn't her eternal soul a little more important than expressing disappointment with a non-believer and then not following up.
I know I've kicked this poor old horse a lot...I'll stop now.
_____________________________
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
