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ORIGINAL: Longfingers1

Well looking at many of the remarks in the other thread, beng that Obama was "associated" with Ayers, many called Obama unpatriotic. If his loose association with Ayers makes the assumption that palling with someone who is against America questions his patriotism, wouldn't it be fair to make the same fair assessment of Palin? I think it's a fair thing to ask beng being associated wth someone who hates America even though they weren't involved in the act themselves makes them unpatriotic.

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ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Absolutely NOT correct.

No intelligent person could spend 10 minutes with Bill Ayers or Bernadette Dorhn without it being very clear who they were and what they stand for. It is their LIFE. It IS who they are. It is their total reason for being. And, frankly, Berndette Dorhn is worse than her husband. I don't think a sane person could spend 3 minutes with her without her making her radicalism front and center in the conversation.

Obama is being labeled as a man with very poor judgement. And, his CONTINUED association with Ayers and Dorhn over a LONG span of time at a very close community organizing way, proves it.

This kind of tit-for-tat played by Obama's supporters is pure nonsense by people with equally poor judgement that cannot seem to break through the fog of their biases to recognize the truth.

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And can you be clear on Palin's? No, because she won't discuss it. So the whole point is if you're going to go tit-for-tat about "associations" it goes both both way, and I think by not acknowledging that is insulting my intelligence and many others (including some conservatives who have spoken out again this horrible strategy) who can see this game for what it is... a desparate ploy to distract from the issues and the fact that the McCain/Palin camp are slipping each day in the pools and in battleground states that used to be for their party.

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

From Wikipedia....

[Joe] Vogler also ran for governor in 1982 and 1986. Several incidents during these campaigns raised his profile as a "colorful character." In the 1982 race, Vogler was taken to task for comments made during a debate. The issue of moving Alaska's capital appeared during the election, as it has on and off since 1960. The media and political pundits took great fun over Vogler's debate remarks that Alaska should "nuke the glaciers" along the coast of the Gulf of Alaska and build a freeway to Juneau. Vogler would later contend that what he said was misinterpreted.

Source


"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her d**ned institutions."

Joe Vogler

Ideologically, the Alaskan Independance Party (AIP) is considered to be a hybrid of conservative Republicanism, populism and libertarianism. Among the issues advocated by the party: the direct popular election of the state attorney general and all judges, the right to keep and bear arms, the privatization of government services, the right to home schooling by parents, and a constitutional amendment to ban property taxes. The AIP, following Vogler's infamous confrontations with officials from the National Park Service and the Environmental Protection Agency, remains steadfastly opposed to environmental regulations and actively promotes the private ownership and widespread development of Alaskan land.

Source

Sarah Palin's address (and support) to the Alaska Independence Party convention this year...

Link Here

Would one not call wanting to "nuke the glaciers" a terrorist threat?

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ORIGINAL: Longfingers1

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ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Absolutely NOT correct.

No intelligent person could spend 10 minutes with Bill Ayers or Bernadette Dorhn without it being very clear who they were and what they stand for. It is their LIFE. It IS who they are. It is their total reason for being. And, frankly, Berndette Dorhn is worse than her husband. I don't think a sane person could spend 3 minutes with her without her making her radicalism front and center in the conversation.

Obama is being labeled as a man with very poor judgement. And, his CONTINUED association with Ayers and Dorhn over a LONG span of time at a very close community organizing way, proves it.

This kind of tit-for-tat played by Obama's supporters is pure nonsense by people with equally poor judgement that cannot seem to break through the fog of their biases to recognize the truth.

And can you be clear on Palin's? No, because she won't discuss it. So the whole point is if you're going to go tit-for-tat about "associations" it goes both both way, and I think by not acknowledging that is insulting my intelligence and many others (including some conservatives who have spoken out again this horrible strategy) who can see this game for what it is... a desparate ploy to distract from the issues and the fact that the McCain/Palin camp are slipping each day in the pools and in battleground states that used to be for their party.

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ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky

who as some argue is anti-america.

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While I didn't hang around with Bill Ayers, I did hang around with some who were just as radical as he was. So, my hanging around with these guys showed me everything I need to know about their agenda and that of Bill Ayers.

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Disagree with Obama because you believe his policies are socialistic or an attempt at wealth distribution, or because you believe he is inexperienced in foreign policies or even because he supports a woman's right to choose and supports civil rights for homosexual couples. But to instill the fear that Obama may be a terrorist, is not only desparate on the part of the McCain camp, but is also dangerous as it incites the crazies and wackos. Do you really want to return to the fear that was instilled after 9/11 when many people of arab decent were targets of hate crimes and many business owned by anyone who looked like they might be from the middle east were vandalized or bombed?

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I don't think that anyone has said Obama is a terrorist, but everyone agree Ayers lead a terrorist group whose goals he still shares. Why wouldn't any rational person be concerned about Obama's support for him?

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

Look, I'm not an idiot. I don't believe neither Sarah Palin nor Barack Obama are terrorists or have any terrorist aspirations. THAT is my point.

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Obama has denounced Bill Ayers terroristic activities. Do you have a link showning that Obama has changed his mind and now supports Bill Ayers' views?

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ORIGINAL: letusreason

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

Look, I'm not an idiot. I don't believe neither Sarah Palin nor Barack Obama are terrorists or have any terrorist aspirations. THAT is my point.

Idiot no, igorant, possibly. If you can't realize that the Obama/Ayers issue is about his judgement through is mutual participation with such then you need some help.

As it goes for his judgement on other past issues:
He would meet with Ahmadinejad.
He said the surge didn't work.
Various votes on not supporting troops.
Accepting campaign donations from ill-fated housing loan companies
Doing nothing about ill-fated housing loan companies.
Being a lawyer for ACORN, a fraudulent organization.
Flying to Kenya to campain for his feloneous cousin on U.S. tax payers money.

The guy is bad judgement waiting to happen and the stakes couldn't be higher.

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So if the activities were so horrible, where is Obama's explanation for why he worked with and supported Ayers for so long?

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

John McCain and Sarah Palin are using scare tactics that may result in neighbors being the targets of violence because they have an Obama/Biden yard sign on their lawn or because their car has an Obama sticker on it. Fear feeds on itself and there is already enough fear and tripedation over the economy in our country. You need to ask yourself why the McCain campaign wants to make democrats or Obama supporters scape-goats (and possible victims) of fear.

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Still waiting for the link that Obama supports Ayers terrorist activities either now or in the 60's.

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ORIGINAL: Evangel70

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While I didn't hang around with Bill Ayers, I did hang around with some who were just as radical as he was. So, my hanging around with these guys showed me everything I need to know about their agenda and that of Bill Ayers.

So should your association with Bill Ayers-like radicals automatically raises doubts about YOUR agenda and possible connection with terrorists?

Look, I'm not an idiot. I don't believe neither Sarah Palin nor Barack Obama are terrorists or have any terrorist aspirations. THAT is my point. The kool-aid drinkers on the right have tried to link Obama's association with Bill Ayers while working on a community organization board, with terrorism in a lame attempt to put the idea in the heads of the simple, that maybe Obama is a terrorist.

I would love to say that most people are too smart to buy that association, but hate-mongerers like Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reily have stroked the fires of hate and suspicion to the point that the kool-aid drinkers believe anyone who disagrees with them must be a tree-hugging, liberal commie who hates America. Any disagreement with the right wing agenda is seen as support for socialism or communism.

Disagree with Obama because you believe his policies are socialistic or an attempt at wealth distribution, or because you believe he is inexperienced in foreign policies or even because he supports a woman's right to choose and supports civil rights for homosexual couples. But to instill the fear that Obama may be a terrorist, is not only desparate on the part of the McCain camp, but is also dangerous as it incites the crazies and wackos. Do you really want to return to the fear that was instilled after 9/11 when many people of arab decent were targets of hate crimes and many business owned by anyone who looked like they might be from the middle east were vandalized or bombed?

John McCain and Sarah Palin are using scare tactics that may result in neighbors being the targets of violence because they have an Obama/Biden yard sign on their lawn or because their car has an Obama sticker on it. Fear feeds on itself and there is already enough fear and tripedation over the economy in our country. You need to ask yourself why the McCain campaign wants to make democrats or Obama supporters scape-goats (and possible victims) of fear.

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ORIGINAL: Longfingers1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Evangel70

John McCain and Sarah Palin are using scare tactics that may result in neighbors being the targets of violence because they have an Obama/Biden yard sign on their lawn or because their car has an Obama sticker on it. Fear feeds on itself and there is already enough fear and tripedation over the economy in our country. You need to ask yourself why the McCain campaign wants to make democrats or Obama supporters scape-goats (and possible victims) of fear.

I don't know why some here refuse to see what's going on for what it is, scare tactics... oh that may be because they've obviously have fallen for it. If they haven't then they would see how silly this guilt-by-association is.

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ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Please don't make us think you are COMPLETELY naive! What do you think RICO cases are all about... once's associations! You guys have made an artform of guilt by association.

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ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky


Mutual participation in what? Education reform? lol I could see if they were conspiring to overthrow the government. Let us reason. Today, Timothy McVeigh and Ayers are two different people. Unless you feel no one can change from their past. Is Ayers guilty of his past, yes. Is he free to state what he believes if we don't agree with it? yes. Does that make everyone he comes in contact with suspect? No. We can talk about bad judgments all day long starting with the war and ending with the economy and every person on Capitol Hill knows somebody who is connected to somebody involved. That includes Bush, Obama, and McCain. Still want to talk about bad judgments?

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ORIGINAL: Longfingers1

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ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Please don't make us think you are COMPLETELY naive! What do you think RICO cases are all about... once's associations! You guys have made an artform of guilt by association.

Believe me. I'm not, I can see for myself when someone uses a desparate ploy to try to distract people even when he same could be said about them. Obviously you are though because it seems like the McCain/Palin camp are making an artform of this guilt-by-association thing as well. All many of us at want you all to agree with that if that camp can play character assassination by foregoing into guilt by association, then you have to have to agree it applies to all candidates not just one... which is why many are saying this is a silly, useless, and flawed strategy to use.

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ORIGINAL: utilityfielder

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ORIGINAL: Longfingers1

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ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Please don't make us think you are COMPLETELY naive! What do you think RICO cases are all about... once's associations! You guys have made an artform of guilt by association.

Believe me. I'm not, I can see for myself when someone uses a desparate ploy to try to distract people even when he same could be said about them. Obviously you are though because it seems like the McCain/Palin camp are making an artform of this guilt-by-association thing as well. All many of us at want you all to agree with that if that camp can play character assassination by foregoing into guilt by association, then you have to have to agree it applies to all candidates not just one... which is why many are saying this is a silly, useless, and flawed strategy to use.

If it is so useless and flawed then why are the liberals going into full attack mode to counter it?

Could it be that there is some truth to the allegations?

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ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist

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ORIGINAL: adelphi_sky


Mutual participation in what? Education reform? lol I could see if they were conspiring to overthrow the government. Let us reason. Today, Timothy McVeigh and Ayers are two different people. Unless you feel no one can change from their past. Is Ayers guilty of his past, yes. Is he free to state what he believes if we don't agree with it? yes. Does that make everyone he comes in contact with suspect? No. We can talk about bad judgments all day long starting with the war and ending with the economy and every person on Capitol Hill knows somebody who is connected to somebody involved. That includes Bush, Obama, and McCain. Still want to talk about bad judgments?

Bill Ayers' idea of education reform is to turn our children into the same kind of crazy 60s radicals him and his cronies were. This was, and is, a dangerous guy. He's a VERY bad dude. What the Weather Underground did was murderous in intent and eventually outcome. I once worked with someone who was in that movement, and he admitted he was a sick man back then. And Ayers has NOT changed from his past. You can stick your fingers in your ears and say la-la-la if you want, or try to minimize their relationship (Obama did MUCH more than 'come in contact' with Ayers. Get real!), but if you can't even question Obama's judgement for associating with this unrepentant terrorist, then WADR you need to assess your own judgement.

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ORIGINAL: TMeeks

Before posting something, you MIGHT make the effort to actually find out what you are talking about. Otherwise, all one does is show their ignorance. So, let me help you out.

Here is the party platform for the Alaskan Independence Party. Which part of that platform comes even close to being terrorist in nature? I'm sure you can tell us.

Oh, and America HAS heard about her ties to that group. She never belonged and was never a member.

I do wish that the leftist lemmings would not try to insult our intelligence because it ALWAYS comes back to showing how shallow they are. In fact, I'm betting that you will avoid looking up their platform even though I provided a link.

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ORIGINAL: Longfingers1

There's an 10 plus page all about how Obama is supposedly "palling around with terrorists" according to the McCain and Palin camp? Well if Obama's association with this domestic terriorist is an issue and should be relevant as many of you here think, should Palin's association with Joe Vogler and the Alaskan Independence Party be fair game as well? The public has yet to hear from her about her ties to that man and that group? It would seem to me that people would like to know how now she's running with a slogan about putting country first when the group her husband was apart of wanted nothing to do with the United States of America, they wanted to be their own country.

Don't some of you think if, we're going to play this guilt-by-association game, and if people from one side of the party lines are saying we need to know about Obama's associations because he hasn't divulged much information about it, don't you think that it's only fair it goes both ways?

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Alaskan Independence Party