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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 8:13:21 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1948
Joined: 9/26/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
I don't think it will ever be outdated for those of us who were taught to be "gentlemen".
A few weeks ago when leaving the hospital from visiting a friend there was a terribly hard rainstorm and an elderly lady was waiting there by the door fretting because she didn't have an umbrella. I offered to walk her to her car using mine and she was very grateful.
God bless you, good sir!
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 8:20:07 PM
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Kellgaste
Posts: 492
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Wyoming
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<Hi5's the Other Men> Saweetness!!!!!
We shall Continue the Tradition and Keep it Alive!!!!
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 8:56:13 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1097
Joined: 4/29/2005
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I'm a bit confused on the distinction between common interpersonal courtesy and chivalry.
I'm a woman, but there is no way I would ignore situations like a woman with parcels and kids approaching a door, or an elderly lady in need of an umbrella or a walk across a roadway.
When I am the woman with parcels and kids, I certainly appreciate a helping hand -- from persons of either gender. Recently I was walking into a mall with a stroller, and out of a gaggle of mall-teens a boy stepped out to get the door. It surprised me because usually people make eye contact and broadcast that they intend to do it, but this boy just did it without even seeming to look up. Odd, but nice, coming from that age group.
When this happens to me I tend to 'smile' a thank you, or sometimes say it out loud... unless something has made me uncomfortable. I don't think it's right to respond coldly for no reason.
But... I'm not that impressed with the part of things that just seem to be romantic gestures to my gender, rather than of actual benefit or simple courtesy that anybody would do for one another. I have a husband, and I don't need to general public to treat me in a way I view as not-quite-romantic but approaching it.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 9:04:00 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23689
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
I'm a woman, but there is no way I would ignore situations like a woman with parcels and kids approaching a door, or an elderly lady in need of an umbrella or a walk across a roadway. Neither would I. And I agree, that's common courtesy; regardless of age and gender of the people involved.
For me, what makes chivalry, chivalrous are the non-essential things that a man does for a woman; i.e., opening car doors (or any other doors) when a woman is very capable of doing the same thing at the very moment.
However, I don't see chivalry as being a romantic thing . . . for instance, I do not interpret a man's gesture of opening the door for me, etc. to be indicative of his interest in me.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 9:11:23 PM
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Kellgaste
Posts: 492
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Wyoming
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Hello my Lady pbaribeault,
I pulled this from the dictionary online:
quote:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This chiv·al·ry (shĭv'əl-rç) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. chiv·al·ries
The medieval system, principles, and customs of knighthood.
The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women.
A manifestation of any of these qualities.
A group of knights or gallant gentlemen.
[Middle English chivalrie, from Old French chevalerie, from chevalier, knight; see chevalier.]
Word History: The Age of Chivalry was also the age of the horse. Bedecked in elaborate armor and other trappings, horses were certainly well dressed, although they might have wished for lighter loads. That the horse should be featured so prominently during the Age of Chivalry is etymologically appropriate, because chivalry goes back to the Latin word caballus, "horse, especially a riding horse or packhorse." Borrowed from French, as were so many other important words having to do with medieval English culture, the English word chivalry is first recorded in works composed around the beginning of the 14th century and is found in several senses, including "a body of armored mounted warriors serving a lord" and "knighthood as a ceremonially conferred rank in the social system." Our modern sense, "the medieval system of knighthood," could not exist until the passage of several centuries had allowed the perspective for such a conceptualization, with this sense being recorded first in 1765.
Courtesy and Cchivalry go hand in hand....my Lady  .
I have a question(s) for you....does your Husband open the door for you? Does he place his hand on the small of your back when you go through a door he has opened for you? Does he give you his coat/shirt if you are cold on a chilled day? Does he let you sleep in and take care of things (Kids if you have them) and not let you perform those tasks in the morning? Does he warm the toilet seat for you in the morning?
Just curious my Lady, you don't have to answer, more of for you to consider.
God Bless!!!!
-Kell
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/9/2008 9:18:12 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23689
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Neither would I want a total stranger to touch me (i.e., the small of my back) as I was going through a door that he was holding open for me. A man that I knew and had a good friendship with; that would probably be ok . . . but a man I don't know - definitely not.
For a stranger or even a mere acquaintence to do this would be very inappropriate.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/10/2008 9:40:09 AM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1097
Joined: 4/29/2005
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quote:
I have a question(s) for you....does your Husband open the door for you? Does he place his hand on the small of your back when you go through a door he has opened for you? Does he give you his coat/shirt if you are cold on a chilled day? Does he let you sleep in and take care of things (Kids if you have them) and not let you perform those tasks in the morning? Does he warm the toilet seat for you in the morning?
My dh opens doors when he gets there first or if I've got something in my hands, but I also open the door if he is carrying stuff, which he often does, rather than me carrying the stuff. He does make small gestures of touch often enough, but I'm not sure if it's when I go through a door. Yes, he gives me a coat if he's got one and I don't, or he goes to get mine... but he doesn't take off his own shirt if that would leave him topless. Generally we prefer to spend our time together in the mornings, rather than me sleeping and him working, but from time to time he has encouraged me to sleep in as you describe.
As for the toilet seat... I'm not even sure how he would do that. I'm thinking either body heat or a blow dryer -- both of which would be something of a delay of my needs in the morning. I've never found the toilet seat uncomfortably cool in the morning anyways, and I've found it a little disturbing to find a toilet seat warm, say in a public washroom... eeww.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/10/2008 10:55:52 AM
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all4aremine
Posts: 55
Joined: 7/24/2008
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I know my husband does these things all the time for me such as small of my back, or clean the house for me, or get up and take care of the kids so I can sleep in or take care of them when I am not feeling well. He is not big on holding the door, but he will do it. And as far as giving me his shirt or coat when I am cold- that is always. Heck most of the time I wear his shirts instead of mine
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/10/2008 11:37:25 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kellgaste
Hello my Lady pbaribeault,
I pulled this from the dictionary online:
quote:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This chiv·al·ry (shĭv'əl-rç) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. chiv·al·ries
The medieval system, principles, and customs of knighthood.
The qualities idealized by knighthood, such as bravery, courtesy, honor, and gallantry toward women.
A manifestation of any of these qualities.
A group of knights or gallant gentlemen.
[Middle English chivalrie, from Old French chevalerie, from chevalier, knight; see chevalier.]
Word History: The Age of Chivalry was also the age of the horse. Bedecked in elaborate armor and other trappings, horses were certainly well dressed, although they might have wished for lighter loads. That the horse should be featured so prominently during the Age of Chivalry is etymologically appropriate, because chivalry goes back to the Latin word caballus, "horse, especially a riding horse or packhorse." Borrowed from French, as were so many other important words having to do with medieval English culture, the English word chivalry is first recorded in works composed around the beginning of the 14th century and is found in several senses, including "a body of armored mounted warriors serving a lord" and "knighthood as a ceremonially conferred rank in the social system." Our modern sense, "the medieval system of knighthood," could not exist until the passage of several centuries had allowed the perspective for such a conceptualization, with this sense being recorded first in 1765.
Courtesy and Cchivalry go hand in hand....my Lady .
I have a question(s) for you....does your Husband open the door for you? Does he place his hand on the small of your back when you go through a door he has opened for you? Does he give you his coat/shirt if you are cold on a chilled day? Does he let you sleep in and take care of things (Kids if you have them) and not let you perform those tasks in the morning? Does he warm the toilet seat for you in the morning?
Just curious my Lady, you don't have to answer, more of for you to consider.
God Bless!!!!
-Kell
Um, while I admire your courtesy or chivalry or whatever you want to call it, I wouldn't appreciate being referred to as "My lady" under any circumstances...that is one type of chivalry that truly irks me, but that's just me!
p.s.-Did you used to post on these forums under a different screen name?...because a couple of years ago we had a guy who referred to women this way...his use of it bugged me too, but again, that's just me.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/10/2008 2:12:39 PM
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BjoyMN
Posts: 29
Joined: 1/17/2008
From: Minnesota
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quote:
Keep up the kindness; we aren't all out to prove we're as good as any man. Because we know.... shhhh, don't let this get out.... some of us know we're different
And...some of us love how God made us different and applaud the Godly men such as yourself who show us you love the differences also. God bless you!
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6 (LIV) "Trust in The Lord with all your heart. Acknowledge Him with everything you do and He will guide your path."
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/10/2008 11:58:43 PM
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Kellgaste
Posts: 492
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Wyoming
Status: offline
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quote:
Um, while I admire your courtesy or chivalry or whatever you want to call it, I wouldn't appreciate being referred to as "My lady" under any circumstances...that is one type of chivalry that truly irks me, but that's just me!
p.s.-Did you used to post on these forums under a different screen name?...because a couple of years ago we had a guy who referred to women this way...his use of it bugged me too, but again, that's just me.
Never been here, Kat. This is my first dive into these types of Boards.
I have a question for you Kat: Why does it "irk" you?
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/11/2008 12:01:57 AM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3264
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I love it when men opens the door for me, or when they stand at the back and let me in the bus first, or offers their seat to me. I think that's kind of cool!
HOw about if a woman opens the door for the man, is that wrong? Whenever I'm giving someone a ride, whether it's a man or a woman, I make it a point to open the passenger door for them. I think it's just common courtesy. I, for once, don't expect a man to open the door for me, but I love it when they do. So, I do the same for them when I have them....but only when entering my car. Otherwise, if it's a door, I don't open the door for a man unless I'm ahead of him.
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Wishing for a Steelers/Eagles superbowl.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/11/2008 9:27:22 AM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23689
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kellgaste
quote:
Um, while I admire your courtesy or chivalry or whatever you want to call it, I wouldn't appreciate being referred to as "My lady" under any circumstances...that is one type of chivalry that truly irks me, but that's just me!
p.s.-Did you used to post on these forums under a different screen name?...because a couple of years ago we had a guy who referred to women this way...his use of it bugged me too, but again, that's just me.
Never been here, Kat. This is my first dive into these types of Boards.
I have a question for you Kat: Why does it "irk" you?
Kellgaste, I'm not Kat, but I'd like to answer this question . . . on my behalf; not hers. 
For me, it's about degrees in the relationship.
In today's world (and not that of King Arthur's day), "My Lady" is a term of endearment; and a stranger, (even a chivalrous one) doesn't have the right to call me by any term of endearment.
"Ma'am" always work for me; regardless of the level of the relationship.
(Although I also know that I tend to be in the minority on that one; or at least, definitely not in the majority).
Also, thinking back over some of the endearments that some of my male friends call me, I don't think anyone has ever said, "My Lady" to me (unless we were momentarily play-acting). Neither would I want them to call me as such . . . unless we were in an exclusive, serious relationship.
My late husband once went to great lengths to photograph the two of us in special clothes and with a very special background. This was done while we were dating. He titled the portrait, The Cowboy and His Lady. That was wonderful. It was sweet, and it was also romantic. Because it was true . . . I was his lady; not anyone else's.
Someone may refer to me as "a lady" when speaking to someone else; that's great.
Someone may even directly call me, "Lady"; depending on the intonation of his voice.
(i.e., A big friendly, "Hey Lady!" by a friend, versus "Move it Lady!" by an impatient stranger).
But, "My Lady" . . . for me . . . is much too intimate for just anyone to call me that.
For a stranger, even a chivalrous one, to call me that would actually almost negate the chivalry.
Blessings,
Sharon-Marie
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/11/2008 1:26:57 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kellgaste
quote:
Um, while I admire your courtesy or chivalry or whatever you want to call it, I wouldn't appreciate being referred to as "My lady" under any circumstances...that is one type of chivalry that truly irks me, but that's just me!
p.s.-Did you used to post on these forums under a different screen name?...because a couple of years ago we had a guy who referred to women this way...his use of it bugged me too, but again, that's just me.
I have a question for you Kat: Why does it "irk" you?
Well, first of all, who talks like that? It's 2008 for heaven's sake.
Secondly, for the reasons Sharon Marie gave. Thanks Shar Mar, you saved me a lot of typing.
Thirdly, it's just plain annoying! You asked!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/11/2008 3:22:08 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3264
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I don't mind being called "my lady". I actually kinda like it. I call a lot of men, my dear. It's when "sweetie, girly, babe" that I get annoyed.
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Wishing for a Steelers/Eagles superbowl.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/12/2008 10:50:52 AM
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BeautifulFemale
Posts: 118
Joined: 6/21/2008
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awwww...you did the right thing. She's the one at fault here! Or else, she may have a bad perception of men who are polite to her (may think ALL men are after that one thing when they get the opportunity), it may be that her kids were driving her crazy! The possibilities are endless!!!! Therefore, I really wouldn't base your frustration on this ONE incident and conclude that every action which is CHIVALROUS is rebuffed by women of this world!
I personally love it when a man makes me feel like a woman! I hate it when men walk in in front of me, don't help me (while in distress, haw haw), walk right through me, don't think that I'm behind them,etc. My dad brought me up to REMEMBER that I was a woman (I won't get into the details, but it's innocent, no worries!) So, I'm one who would SMILE in appreciation!:)
p.s. If any of the above doesn't make sense, pardon me - I'm post call (Had a 24 hour shift) and have to stay up to pack for my 1 week of vacation! YEAH!!
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/12/2008 11:29:16 PM
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Laminin
Posts: 83
Joined: 10/12/2008
From: Omaha, NE
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kellgaste
Hello All,
Ok, here is the scoop, I'm not sure if this is the right area to post this query or not, but I'm rolling with it if you all will!
I was out shopping (grumbles) and because it is one of my all time favorite things to do in the whole wide world, I was so very excited (hope your picking up on the sarcasm), I wasn't in the best mood.
Anyway, I was tired of being irritated so as i was entering the store i saw my opportunity, a young lady was trying to get out of the store with some items and kiddo's tagging along so I opened the door for her and the kids and she gave me a look like I just sent in a Airstrike and destroyed her sense of independance!
I told her to have a Fantastic Day and she gave me a half smile and pressed on........So, is Chivalry a Dieing thing in this world or is it a localized thing with certain women? Do women not like it when a man opens a door for them or pulls a chair out to allow them to sit (Especially when they are wearing a dress), or warm the toilet seat for them in the morning? <sigh><smile>
Note: I did think that she may have been having a bad day as well and was just so overwhelmed with joy for that small thing she forgot herself <smile>.
Just Curious, doesn't mean I will stop doing it :P
-Kell
It hasn't died but the standard left us long ago. The generation now, is "I can do it all by myself, and for myself", where as the generation where I wish I had come from, begs to differ. I for one, although may be young, still wants the gentleman who opens doors, rises when I enter the room, and at the very least gives eye contact when he talks to you. I don't think it's too much to ask. Furthermore, because of the generation if "I can do it all by myself...", they teach their children that it's a weakness when men, show respect and adoration for women they choose to date or come home to every night. Even in dating, I see it less and less of a constant but a "shocker" when it occurs.
I'm fearful (not legitimately) for my brother's sake who is in his early teens, and quickly learning that to be a gentleman is a rareity, and isn't always welcomed by young ladies. It pains me to see his efforts unappreciated by smirky, rude, girls who don't see it as him blessing his sisters in Christ and not out of obligation either. I thank God that I grew up in a household where my Dad, respected, appreciated, adored and cherished my Mom and after 30+ years of marriage for them, he still opens doors, he still pulls her chair out and takes her coat. My my, where have those men gone?
Continue the chivalry!!!! Someone should make buttons, I'd buy one 
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¸.·´¸.·*´¨) ¸.·*¨)
(¸.·Laminin*´¨)
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/14/2008 11:27:13 PM
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Anamchara
Posts: 110
Joined: 9/16/2005
Status: online
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NO I would say not, not with me anyhow. I greatly appreciate and respect a guy with chivalry :)
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/16/2008 3:59:29 PM
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Pauley464
Posts: 490
Joined: 7/29/2007
From: Washington, Indiana
Status: offline
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All of you ladies posting here must be in a minority. I was raised by my father to open doors for women, to stand aside and allow women to enter buildings and vehicles first, to walk between her and the street while on a sidewalk, to remove my hat while in doors and in the presence of a woman, always pay for the meal whether it's a formal date or not, and so on.
But from my college years on I've been insulted, verbally attacked, accused of acting superior, chauvanistic, unfeeling of her needs to be her own woman and many other things. The least I've ever gotten in recent times is a rude glance and in my entire life I can only remember one time when I was thanked.
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There is nothing so important that it can't be put off until tomorrow.
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RE: Has Chivalry Died? - 10/16/2008 4:02:11 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 23689
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Pauley, that is truly sad.
I can imagine how such responses must make you feel.
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