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Frustration with a school employee. - 10/10/2008 7:56:59 PM
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garsyt
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I witnessed a situation today at school that has me pretty frustrated and I'm not sure how I should handle it.
Today I was taking down art work as I typically do on a regular basis when I'm in the building. I was in the area where all three classroom wings converge and the kids go through to go to the lunchroom. Anyway the 4th graders are the first group to go out for recess (11:00 to 11:20) and the first group to come in and go to lunch (11:20 to 11:40). During this time teachers have their lunch period. They are not with the kids at all during this 40 minutes. To fill the gap we have paid noon monitors on staff. Some of these people are special needs aides, and our librarian and computer specialist fill in as well. We also have 2 people that are solely noon monitors.
I was in this area when the 4th graders came in from recess. The policy is that the kids are quiet and in lines to walk down the hall to the lunch room. Today the kids were quiet, and if there was some that weren't as silent as church mice it was but a handful of the 80 or so 4th graders, and the noon monitor STILL proceeded to yell at ALL the children in a voice that was much louder then the noise level coming from ALL 80 kids put together. And she decided that their punishment for being noisy was that they would lose minutes of recess. Because they weren't all completely silent, she proceeded to take away minutes from their recess time next Monday - they, as a whole, ended up losing a total of 8 minutes, which is nearly half of the kids' recess time. She went on for nearly 3 minutes! It was still a 2 minute walk down the hall and at least 2 to 5 minutes before the kids at the end of the line would get their trays and get seated. At this point the the kids have maybe 10 minutes left to eat. So they wolf it down just so they get a few seconds to talk to their friends.
#1 I really didn't appreciate the tone of voice used by this noon monitor when disciplining these children. It's only the 8th week of school. If this is how she is acting already, I'm truly scared to see what the future holds.
#2 I am of the belief that if you treat children with respect they will respect you and thus behave better. I heard NO respect from this noon monitor whatsoever.
#3 I don't believe in punishing an entire group for the misbehaving of a few. To me it makes those that are behaving and doing what is expected feel like it really doesn't matter if they behave or not - they are going to be punished anyway. I KNOW kids get yelled at for talking to the other kids trying to tell them to be quiet. After enough of this treatment and enough losing of recess time - The kids seem to come to believe that they could STILL be on their best behavior and it wouldn't matter because if ONE child steps out of line the whole group would lose out. I would rather see the kids that are behaving themselves be rewarded by not losing their recess time and getting to go ahead to lunch and those kids that are misbehaving be held back a bit and those same kids lose recess time as a punishment. I would support this across the board.
#4 Being forced to eat so quickly is NOT beneficial for those children with weight issues. It's not beneficial to ANYONE for that matter. I do know that giving the kids time to eat helps them to slow down and slowing down gives the body time to digest the food and people become full faster. Any dietitian or diabetes educator I've ever spoken has stated that eating slowly is one of the best things anyone with weight or eating disorders can do. The worry I'm sure the school will have is that the kids will still eat really fast and then the lunch room will become total chaos - but that's because it's become a habit that needs to be changed. Ethan said that he had just barely sat down at his table today when the noon monitor announced that they had about 5 minutes left of lunch period and that they had best hurry up!
So what should I do? I'm thinking about writing some sort of letter to the principal, stating my feelings regarding what I witnessed today and why I feel that way and backing that up with statistics especially with regard to eating habits and obesity in children.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/10/2008 8:24:28 PM
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csl7037
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I think you have to say something, Garsy. IMO, if we're going to have our kids in the kind of school we want them to be in, it's important for parents to be involved and to be part of the process - and that includes speaking up where there is a problem. You need to tell someone in Administration exactly what you just told us.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/11/2008 5:43:23 AM
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artemis
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If nothing else, I think that legally, schools are required to give a certain amount of time for lunch. Maybe it's a state by state thing, but even on early release days, my school is required to offer lunch to the students who want it and we are not allowed to have students make up tests or serve classroom detentions during lunch because they have to be given their lunch period, even if they don't eat.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/11/2008 5:52:40 PM
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zoebob
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I would say that is a state by state thing. The school where I work doesn't offer lunch on half days and they do have lunch detention: the kids get their lunch and then have to report to a class room to eat without talking.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/11/2008 9:21:55 PM
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garsyt
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I guess my only big beef is that our district is really pushing nutrition, healthy eating and exercise this year. They do serve pretty decent healthier lunches - their not the best but their not filled with deep fried, sugar laden junk either, but SO much more could be done to reinforce healthy eating habits that they are teaching in the classroom. And taking away one of the FEW times kids actually get to move around and run off the pent up energy just doesn't sit well with me. I read a statistic just last night that stated that kids perform better overall but especially in math on if they have periods of intense physical activity prior to testing. And it has also been proven in these same studies that these periods of physical activity have reduced the number of disruptive behaviors in children from Kindergarten through 12th grade!
And it's typically only this ONE noon monitor that I have a problem with.
I haven't formulated any letters yet. But I'm going to e-mail the principal and see if I can set up a meeting for Tuesday.
Our schools don't serve lunch on half days either. That's fine with me My high schooler is usually home by 11:30 which is his lunch time at school anyway, and my little guys would be home easily by 1PM and they can handle that as long as they have a snack break which all the teachers do on half days anyway.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/13/2008 2:36:58 PM
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Galilee
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Garsyt,
DEFINITELY write the Principal. If they are worth anything, they will respond.
Check out my thread on this same board.
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The Son of God became the Son of Man so that the sons of man might become the sons of God. -- Terry Fullam.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/13/2008 2:52:27 PM
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Chrystal-J-007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
#1 I really didn't appreciate the tone of voice used by this noon monitor when disciplining these children. It's only the 8th week of school. If this is how she is acting already, I'm truly scared to see what the future holds.
#2 I am of the belief that if you treat children with respect they will respect you and thus behave better. I heard NO respect from this noon monitor whatsoever.
#3 I don't believe in punishing an entire group for the misbehaving of a few. To me it makes those that are behaving and doing what is expected feel like it really doesn't matter if they behave or not - they are going to be punished anyway. I KNOW kids get yelled at for talking to the other kids trying to tell them to be quiet. After enough of this treatment and enough losing of recess time - The kids seem to come to believe that they could STILL be on their best behavior and it wouldn't matter because if ONE child steps out of line the whole group would lose out. I would rather see the kids that are behaving themselves be rewarded by not losing their recess time and getting to go ahead to lunch and those kids that are misbehaving be held back a bit and those same kids lose recess time as a punishment. I would support this across the board.
#4 Being forced to eat so quickly is NOT beneficial for those children with weight issues. It's not beneficial to ANYONE for that matter. I do know that giving the kids time to eat helps them to slow down and slowing down gives the body time to digest the food and people become full faster. Any dietitian or diabetes educator I've ever spoken has stated that eating slowly is one of the best things anyone with weight or eating disorders can do. The worry I'm sure the school will have is that the kids will still eat really fast and then the lunch room will become total chaos - but that's because it's become a habit that needs to be changed. Ethan said that he had just barely sat down at his table today when the noon monitor announced that they had about 5 minutes left of lunch period and that they had best hurry up!
Blessings,
Garsy
I agree. Sounds like this person is too stressed out for this job. They need to realize that screaming and yelling will only make the kids resent the monitor and want to listen even less.
Do the monitors get any type of training? Sounds like she needs more.
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The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese...timing is everything!
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/13/2008 3:19:22 PM
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garsyt
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I'm going to school tomorrow afternoon and I'm going to see if I can get a meeting with the principal. I drafted a letter late last night. I just don't want this coming back on my kids. IF it gets back to the noon monitor that I was the one that turned it in she could make life miserable for my kids - ESPECIALLY my 4th grader. I wasn't the only parent in the commons area, but I'm pretty certain folks would know it was me.
Now that I'm thinking about it - I'm just going to deliver the letter and see what comes of it. I'm in the building a couple days a week if they need to talk to me they can catch me on those days.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 9:37:17 AM
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garsyt
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Well I have to say something now. I CANNOT let it go. The noon monitor actually THREATENED the 4th and 5th graders yesterday, according to my kids. I guess she told them that if they were loud or talking AT ALL in the hall going to lunch that she would DOUBLE the minutes they would lose of recess today. I guess she also said that if just ONE kid messed up they would ALL lose recess time. That is a threat in my book and WRONG! Of course they are going to say, "well it worked" because neither group lost any recess minutes today. No one threatens my children! Except me of course.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 9:38:58 AM
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Galilee
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Take it to 'em! I hope you have better success than I did yesterday.
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The Son of God became the Son of Man so that the sons of man might become the sons of God. -- Terry Fullam.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 10:08:37 AM
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momma_bee
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quote:
No one threatens my children! Except me of course.
You tell 'em!!!!!!
I have never understood that mindset. Punish them all and they will police themselves? And then, in the next breath - let's stop bullying. Don't tattle unnecessarily, it sets yourself up to be bullied. Tell us when someone is threatened. We take all problems seriously, honest we do, but we can't tell you how a sitation is resolved even if your kid reports it.
ERrrrgh.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 7:46:39 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
Well I have to say something now. I CANNOT let it go. The noon monitor actually THREATENED the 4th and 5th graders yesterday, according to my kids. I guess she told them that if they were loud or talking AT ALL in the hall going to lunch that she would DOUBLE the minutes they would lose of recess today. I guess she also said that if just ONE kid messed up they would ALL lose recess time. That is a threat in my book and WRONG! Of course they are going to say, "well it worked" because neither group lost any recess minutes today. No one threatens my children! Except me of course.
Really? I don't agree with her methods either, but claiming that she "threatened" them sounds downright nutty to me and overreacting like that is a good way to get the administration to not take your concerns seriously. Sure, she "threatened" them, but not with physical harm - she "threatened" them with punishment that is apparently within her authority to dish out. This is the same as a teacher "threatening" a student with detention for acting up in class.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 9:34:55 PM
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garsyt
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Ah there is a difference between threaten one individual student who is doing wrong and threatening a group of 80 or so children and then punishing them ALL if one, yes just ONE, misbehaves. My eldest daughter and her entire 5th grade (3 classrooms with about 75 kids total) lost a total of 12 minutes from tomorrow's recess today. I was in the hallway when all this was going down and I can assure you that it was pretty easy to pick out the kids that were not following the rules and which ones were. There were kids that were near tears because they couldn't do ANYTHING about it because if they were to tell the misbehaving child to be quiet - THEY would be breaking the rules. There were others that were fuming under the surface - you could see it in their body language.
In our school handbook the students rights and responsibilities include these two paragraphs:
quote:
As a student I have the right to be treated with respect and understanding. This means that no one will laugh at me, call me names, use vulgar or inappropriate language, or tell lies about me. This also means that I have the responsibility to be honest, respectful and courteous toward my classmates teachers and other school staff.
quote:
As a student I must be willing to accept responsibility for my behavior. If I violate the rights of other students, I must be willing to pay the consequences. My teacher or staff member will tell me what will happen if I misbehave. If I continue to misbehave, I will be referred to the principal. If I am referred to the principal, I may be counseled on how to correct my behavior; I may have my parents contacted; I may lose privileges; or I may be suspended/expelled from school.
I noticed a lot of "I's" and "My's" in that paragraph. Not anywhere in that paragraph or in the entire handbook for that matter does it say that an entire group of kids will be punished for the misbehavior of a few.
Anyway, my 5th grader told me today that the guidance counselor came down and talked to each 5th grade classrooms regarding this matter. Aryn said that the kids asked her why ALL of them were getting in trouble when it was just a few of them causing all the problems and the excuse was that the noon monitor was unable to pick out those at fault. That is wrong. As I stated earlier it wasn't that difficult to see who was having trouble following the rules and who wasn't. Aryn stated that all the kids know who are the ones that are at fault, but they can't say anything because that would be breaking another school rule of no tattling. I mean I KNOW these kids aren't angels and my own kids have been known to break the rules from time to time. The way it sounds, however, is that it really doesn't matter to the noon monitor if the vast majority is following the rules when she stated that if just one child was out of line that the whole group would lose recess time.
I did go in to speak to the principal today but she wasn't in the building today. So instead I will send her an e-mail since I won't be in the building again until Friday, unless I end up doing choir carpool tomorrow.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 9:47:39 PM
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macokjc
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Sadly, that is something I might have done when I was a teacher - before I had my own kids. Now - I would never do that and it makes me upset when it happens to my kids. I do understand that sometimes there are so many noisemakers, it is hard to pick them all out. I guess the theory behind it is that peer pressure will make all the students obey. However, that doesn't really work.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 9:58:58 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
Ah there is a difference between threaten one individual student who is doing wrong and threatening a group of 80 or so children and then punishing them ALL if one, yes just ONE, misbehaves. My eldest daughter and her entire 5th grade (3 classrooms with about 75 kids total) lost a total of 12 minutes from tomorrow's recess today. I was in the hallway when all this was going down and I can assure you that it was pretty easy to pick out the kids that were not following the rules and which ones were. There were kids that were near tears because they couldn't do ANYTHING about it because if they were to tell the misbehaving child to be quiet - THEY would be breaking the rules. There were others that were fuming under the surface - you could see it in their body language.
I'm not defending her actions and if this is a regular occurrence, I think that's a pretty good indication that she's not able to handle the duties of her position. But over-reacting yourself doesn't make the situation any better.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 10:39:37 PM
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garsyt
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but unless someone says something, a child, a parent, or other adult, NOTHING will be done. Aryn, my 5th grader, is considering going to the counselor herself, but she wants me to come with her.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 10:41:01 PM
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hoppersfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
Ah there is a difference between threaten one individual student who is doing wrong and threatening a group of 80 or so children and then punishing them ALL if one, yes just ONE, misbehaves. My eldest daughter and her entire 5th grade (3 classrooms with about 75 kids total) lost a total of 12 minutes from tomorrow's recess today. I was in the hallway when all this was going down and I can assure you that it was pretty easy to pick out the kids that were not following the rules and which ones were. There were kids that were near tears because they couldn't do ANYTHING about it because if they were to tell the misbehaving child to be quiet - THEY would be breaking the rules. There were others that were fuming under the surface - you could see it in their body language.
I'm not defending her actions and if this is a regular occurrence, I think that's a pretty good indication that she's not able to handle the duties of her position. But over-reacting yourself doesn't make the situation any better.
-Dan.
I tend to agree. If this is happening on a regular basis, then there is a problem. As a parent (who works at my son's school), I see situations that I don't agree with at the school from time to time. However, I try to pick my battles wisely. If this were me, I would probably continue to keep an eye on the situation. If it did not improve, i.e. the children continuously lost recess for the behavior of a few, then I would talk with the principal. I'm not saying that garsyt does this (I'm sure she doesn't), but the principal is going to be less likely to take any complaints seriously if you complain about every little thing that happens in the school. Again, I'm not saying that is going on here, but I think I would wait until it becomes a repetitive thing with the monitor. Just my two cents' worth! 
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 10:56:55 PM
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garsyt
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Just to let you all know, I'm NOT one to jump and complain about every little thing. quite the opposite really. I tend to let my kids solve their own problems and a lot of the time I'm in full support of the teachers and staff. In fact, I'm often more strict with my children and expect more from them then their teachers do. I'm also sure that this is a repetitive thing. I'm in the building enough to observe things and I do ask questions of my kids. I have witnessed first hand several times this year and many times last year. Only last year this particular monitor was a lot mellower and the monitor that didn't return this year was the one I had a big issue with.
Blessings,
Garsy
_____________________________
My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 11:20:38 PM
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hoppersfan
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((garsy)),
I didn't mean to offend you. I apologize if I did. I have been in situations a few times where I really wanted to talk with the teacher/aide/principal. The only time I have ever really confronted a school employee with a situation was when my son was in first grade. His classroom was very close to mine. I was monitoring my students in the hallway as they took a bathroom break. My son's teacher was across the hall from me, and she had my son and his friend very close to her (outside of the classroom), and it was obvious that she was upset with them. At one point, she pointed her finger in my son's face (she did NOT touch him). I was livid! Talking with a child about a problem is one thing, but pointing your finger in his face is a different story in my book. I walked back to my classroom with my students and took a few deep breaths!! When the teacher passed by my classroom, I asked her if my son had misbehaved. She stated that he and his friend both had the same incorrect answer on their math worksheet. She then told me that she was sure the other little boy was the "cheater" (she didn't use that word, BTW ). I did not get upset with her, but I did tell her that from all appearances, my son had done something terribly wrong in order for her to have her finger pointed in his face. We did not have that situation occur again. I think that is the only time I have really confronted a teacher.
As I said, if the monitor continuously takes away recess from all children for the behavior of a few, then I would discuss this with the principal. If this is something new, I would monitor the situation closely to see if it is going to continue to go on.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/14/2008 11:36:01 PM
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ladyingrace1979
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Garsy,
I'm going to disagree with those who say take a wait and see approach. I made that mistake with a teacher and as a result my oldest was stuck in a classroom with a teacher she hated because she belittled the children constantly. If this was done once it will be done again. You do not punish the group because of the few.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/15/2008 8:19:03 AM
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garsyt
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Oh no I wasn't offended! I just wanted to make sure folks understood that I'm not the type to go off without reason. In fact we have had FEW problems in the 4 going on 5 years my kids have been in this school. I've only contacted administration three times with a complaint in that time frame and ONLY when I had a legit reason. I do wait. I do observe and monitor complaints my kids have. Believe me there are times when I have to step away and take a few deep breaths and often times I go home and give it a day or two. But this is not one of those things that is going away. It is a repetitive problem and that it's happening so early in the school year has me concerned.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/16/2008 11:10:33 AM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: garsyt
Just to let you all know, I'm NOT one to jump and complain about every little thing. quite the opposite really. I tend to let my kids solve their own problems and a lot of the time I'm in full support of the teachers and staff. In fact, I'm often more strict with my children and expect more from them then their teachers do. I'm also sure that this is a repetitive thing. I'm in the building enough to observe things and I do ask questions of my kids. I have witnessed first hand several times this year and many times last year. Only last year this particular monitor was a lot mellower and the monitor that didn't return this year was the one I had a big issue with.
Blessings,
Garsy
I'm the same way, Garsy. I know there are going to be issues - no school or teacher is perfect. So I make a conscious effort to "pick my battles" and, as a result, have really not had any "battles" - until this year. I decided the situation in ds' class was bad enough that it was a hill I was prepared to die on. I know I am on shaky ground with the principal right now - but that, in and of itself, makes me kinda mad because I think it's somewhat petty and she's just mad she was called on the carpet for not handling the situation. But I am going to try to mend that relationship (with time).
Your involvement there and your ability to pick your battles should give you some credibility in picking this one. You're not one of the moms who comes running into the office hysterical over every little thing so they should give you some credit, there. But, in the Administration's defense, when they get a million hysterical complaints about every little thing, it's hard to be objective about yours.
But it is SOOO hard to put yourself on this line. I know, I just did it. I feel terrible things went the way they did but we did what had to be done to get something resolved. After the entire first nine weeks of the new teacher in a frenzy, a couple of the kids in ds' class going to the principal's office 3-4x/week, all the other kids miserable (getting yelled at as a group as well), and trying to talk to the principal...a few of us went to the Senior Pastor. I hated doing that, I didn't make the appointment, but I'm glad we did...two boys got moved out of ds' class this week into the other two classes. And it's a whole new ball game in ds' class. The teacher looks like a huge weight has been lifted! On one hand, I worry about damage I may have done to my "reputation" (I'm on the Board) and relationships but, on the other hand, my ds will have a MUCH better 2nd nine weeks than he did the first. It's what had to be done; sometimes it takes someone raising the issue and not letting it go.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/17/2008 1:37:57 PM
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macokjc
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I have loved reading this thread, because this is something that I have struggled with. This is our first year with our kids in school (they were homeschooled), and I am struggling between my "mama bear" feelings and knowing that the kids do need to develop some thick skin once in awhile. It is hard to find a comfortable balance.
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RE: Frustration with a school employee. - 10/17/2008 4:26:13 PM
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garsyt
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Well I spoke to the principal today and shared my concerns. I managed not to get emotional and things went well. I spoke my mind and the principal said that she would look more into it and have a talk with all the monitors about changing attitudes and ways of discipline. I'm satisfied for now.
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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