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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 6:05:14 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
don't get me started on what YOU may THINK about mega-churches.......you haven't been to them ALL, obviously....(cause you haven't been to mine, obviously)...
I do understand that you attend a mega-Chruch and are very pleased with it.
How about telling us what the Pastor's role in a mega-Church is?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 6:07:06 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
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quote:
don't get me started on what YOU may THINK about mega-churches.......you haven't been to them ALL, obviously....(cause you haven't been to mine, obviously)...
whoaaa..where did that come from? This is not a "my" vs "your" pov...in fact I have no idea what kind of church anyone posting here attends...I don't pay that much attention to the details I guess...but my view has absolutely nothing to do with one person's indiv. church.
I'm sorry you feel so defensive about the matter.
I have been to enough "mega"churches to know I don't want to attend another....and that is good enough for me. Besides, I don't even eat at mega bar restuarants very much for many of the same reasons.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 6:23:13 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
don't get me started on what YOU may THINK about mega-churches.......you haven't been to them ALL, obviously....(cause you haven't been to mine, obviously)...
whoaaa..where did that come from? This is not a "my" vs "your" pov...in fact I have no idea what kind of church anyone posting here attends...I don't pay that much attention to the details I guess...but my view has absolutely nothing to do with one person's indiv. church.
I'm sorry you feel so defensive about the matter.
I have been to enough "mega"churches to know I don't want to attend another....and that is good enough for me. Besides, I don't even eat at mega bar restuarants very much for many of the same reasons.
You're the one that wrote, " Those mega churches reminds me of those people who harvest organs..not because they care about the patient, but because of greed. ".......
that's where it came from.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 6:27:20 PM
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nicole6598
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Let's not argue about mega churches vs smaller ones :)
But kerns, what do you see your Pastors role is? Has your pastor ever outlined this before?
I do see the point that they (especially if it is a larger church) need to make sure things are running smoothly, that everyone is doing their bit, but I don't think that should replace the things like nurturing and caring for the congregation.
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Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 6:28:40 PM
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nicole6598
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Another question I had that I have had people ask me is what do you do when a large portion of the people don't like where their church is heading but that comes from executives in the denom? our board don't have any say on spiritual matters..
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Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 6:41:01 PM
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ffbruce
Posts: 271
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Another question I had that I have had people ask me is what do you do when a large portion of the people don't like where their church is heading but that comes from executives in the denom? our board don't have any say on spiritual matters..
That's why it's wonderful to be a truly non-denominational church.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 6:47:11 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
don't get me started on what YOU may THINK about mega-churches.......you haven't been to them ALL, obviously....(cause you haven't been to mine, obviously)...
I do understand that you attend a mega-Chruch and are very pleased with it.
How about telling us what the Pastor's role in a mega-Church is?
Thanks
RC
I don't follow my pastor around much....but, from what I have learned, it is similar to what I wrote earlier:
....to put the right people where they need to be within the church, so those seeds can be effectively "sown" and "grown" and cultivated?
A good CEO realizes that he/she can't do EVERYTHING...( in this sense, it's the bookkeeping, the hundreds of individual ministries, facilities, secretarial, music, etc..etc...)....what a good CEO does is put people capable of running those functions in place, and assures that a large number of people are enabled to go out and "take care of business", INDEPENDENT of the "CEO" (or, in this instance, pastor)......while providing the leadership necessary to keep it all running, and keep everyone "on the same page"....
with a staff of over 200 dedicated ministers and support people working at our church, for God's kingdom, our Pastor can't be everywhere at one time....though, like a CEO, as I mentioned before, he places people there, under God's guidance, to make sure that the job gets done....whether the pastor is there or not.....and, provides leadership and teaching to the congregation that enables them to bring others in to the Family of God...and to eventually teach and disciple others....as someone else put it "caring and nurturing" the congregation.....no doubt about that....not on a "personal level", like really small churches, but, the caring and nurturing is still there.
With regards to our church, not only the sermons, but the Television and Radio ministries, which reach millions around the world (edited sermons to fit time requirements)....and, an occasional writing of a book.....
Yes...it is a "mega church"...we gradually became one after now 30 years of effectively reaching the community for Christ in one of the fastest growing areas of the country (up to around 26,000 members). Were we to start turning people away at the front door, telling them "there's no more room for you"? At what point would you suggest churches do that? What do you do when they continue to come, to hear God's word preached almost daily? You grow. You build so those who want to accept Christ have a place....and can grow, and be cultivated to go out and share God's word with others...and reach out....
quote:
Another question I had that I have had people ask me is what do you do when a large portion of the people don't like where their church is heading but that comes from executives in the denom? our board don't have any say on spiritual matters..
In the "Baptist World", with regards to our Southern Baptist Church, the denom really has no say about where our church is heading...or anything about it....we're an SBC church, but run independent of any outside organization. The denomenation does NOT run the church. The people of the church run the church. Which, is clear, once you see and experience our church, because it's certainly not your "typical" SBC church, and there are many long-time SBC church goers (like my inlaws), who don't care for our church, for many reasons......but, they don't live here....
If someone doesn't like the way our church is run (which Iam sure happens from time to time), then they are free to attend any of the other 20+ baptist churches in our immediate area, or hundreds of other denomenations or non-denomenationals....personal preferences are a "touchy subject".....
That is exactly what we did when we didn't like where our previous, and much smaller church, was 'headed'.....we just left....and, prayerfully sought out another church home.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 7:00:14 PM
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nicole6598
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Yeah our church is set up different, our denomination is set up differntly then... There are no other churches here that one would really want to move to. Well some do, but I know personally the other churches are getting into the same sort of thing that ours is, to a lesser degree, but its still there. You don't have much choice in a country town.
So your pastor wouldn't go and visit people who were sick or needed counsel, but there would be someone else to do that? Do you not think that a pastor's role, the meaning of pastor is to shepherd, to tend to the flock, make sure they are fed, looked after etc. Or do you see that as long as the pastor has set someone to do that then its good? (Not having a go, just asking your opinion  ). Because we don't have people that visit you if you are not at church, or having a hard time. Your friend might because they know what is wrong, but a leader wouldn't.
_____________________________
Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 7:03:26 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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I'll answer those questions tomorrow, ok?
for right now, I found a good site that describes the function well (MOST of what is on that page fits pretty well to what our pastor does):
Part I: Key Responsibilities
1. Spiritual leadership and Vision
2. Conducts Public Worship with Sacraments.
3. Administrative Leadership
4. Responsive to Individuals' ministerial needs
5. Creates enthusiasm for worship and Study of the word
6. Maintain and nurture personal faith
7. Community outreach and increased growth through conversion.
http://www.ministryhealth.net/mh_articles/154_consider_this_mega_church_call.html
see ya tomorrow....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 8:51:37 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
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quote:
You're the one that wrote, " Those mega churches reminds me of those people who harvest organs..not because they care about the patient, but because of greed. ".......
that's where it came from.
Yes, and you chose to take that as somehow directed at you and your church when I know nothing about you...and your church
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 11:03:36 PM
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worthaboverubies
Posts: 148
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This subject caught my eye because I'm having pastor role issues too.
I'm very hesitant to say much because I don't want to regret anything. Basically our pastor is at church twice a month and that's it. I want to leave our church but my husband isn't ready.
Kerns don't get offended but you didn't really say what your pastor does only what he doesn't do. Could you offer up more info?
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 11:05:53 PM
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ffbruce
Posts: 271
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quote:
ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies
This subject caught my eye because I'm having pastor role issues too.
I'm very hesitant to say much because I don't want to regret anything. Basically our pastor is at church twice a month and that's it. I want to leave our church but my husband isn't ready.
Kerns don't get offended but you didn't really say what your pastor does only what he doesn't do. Could you offer up more info?
I don't want to be stupid here, but if your pastor is only at your church twice a month, where is he the rest of the time?
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/21/2008 11:15:56 PM
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worthaboverubies
Posts: 148
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quote:
I don't want to be stupid here, but if your pastor is only at your church twice a month, where is he the rest of the time?
I'd rather not say because I'm paranoid someone will know who I'm talking about. Talking about this hard because I don't want to gossip but on the other I don't know how to talk about this tactfully without gossiping. Is that clear as mud or what? I've been horribly conflicted about this for months.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 12:05:46 AM
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ffbruce
Posts: 271
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quote:
ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies
quote:
I don't want to be stupid here, but if your pastor is only at your church twice a month, where is he the rest of the time?
I'd rather not say because I'm paranoid someone will know who I'm talking about. Talking about this hard because I don't want to gossip but on the other I don't know how to talk about this tactfully without gossiping. Is that clear as mud or what? I've been horribly conflicted about this for months.
Oh no, that's perfectly fine. You can PM me if you'd like. Or say nothing at all. Whatever you like.
I guess I was wondering if he serves more than one church, or works a full-time job and basically preaches on Sunday.
Thanks.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 12:19:18 AM
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nicole6598
Posts: 3818
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I panic about that sometimes too but I don't think its gossip at all, its a concern you are trying to find out about what you should do.
_____________________________
Proud Aussie, Wife, Mother, Woman!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 9:24:55 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
Kerns don't get offended but you didn't really say what your pastor does only what he doesn't do. Could you offer up more info?
where did I say what our pastor DOES NOT do?
perhaps you got my info mixed up with someone else's...
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 10:54:35 AM
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buckifn
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lovelyladyinATL
I know there are churches with leader's who are corrupt...but there are also churches where Pastor's truly care for the sheep.
I pray you leave behind those who hurt you and ask God to guide you to a place where the Pastor truly has a Shepherd's heart and will minister to you in a way that brings hope and healing.
A small group setting, or a ladies prayer group may also be of help to you right now.
A good Shepherd always finds time to tend to the wounded sheep.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 11:14:40 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nicole6598
Yeah our church is set up different, our denomination is set up differntly then... There are no other churches here that one would really want to move to. Well some do, but I know personally the other churches are getting into the same sort of thing that ours is, to a lesser degree, but its still there. You don't have much choice in a country town.
So your pastor wouldn't go and visit people who were sick or needed counsel, but there would be someone else to do that? Do you not think that a pastor's role, the meaning of pastor is to shepherd, to tend to the flock, make sure they are fed, looked after etc. Or do you see that as long as the pastor has set someone to do that then its good? (Not having a go, just asking your opinion ). Because we don't have people that visit you if you are not at church, or having a hard time. Your friend might because they know what is wrong, but a leader wouldn't.
Didn't realize until now that you're in Australia!
anyway...to answer your questions...
First...was about the pastor visiting people who were sick and/or needed counsel.
In a much, much smaller church, that is possible. But, a large church operates a bit differently. In dire circumstances, yes, the pastor does get involved (we have the Senior Pastor, along with 3 others in the "pastor" role....each with slightly different responsiblities).... But, with 26,000 members, he can't get involved and visit/counsel everyone. I don't even see how that's possible with a church of just a few thousand. And, when we joined the church, it's not something we "expected" at all.
So, how does it work? First, there are deacons. Many deacons. They each have responsibilities towards caring for and looking after "the flock". Get sick or need counsel? You'll get your deacon.
Then, we also have ministers. For instance, my wife and I are in a sunday school class. Sunday school classes are almost like a very small church "within the church". And, for our Sunday school Department (married adult II, ages 30-40ish), there is a dedicated Minister, who looks over us...and is the "go to" guy for most anything. When I was unemployed 5 years ago, it was him that was contacted by our class leadership to "get the ball rolling" regarding assistance. Or, for "counsel" during that difficult time. It's certainly something that makes active "bible fellowship class" involvement VERY important. Without it, people do not get "connected"....
Then, we have the people within the class itself. Many couples have responsibilities, be it "In Reach", "Prayer", or "Fellowship". If you're not in class for a couple of weeks, you'll likely get a call. End up in the hospital? You'll get more people visiting you than you want! (ha ha ha)....
a few "testimonies" to this:
1) I have a pacemaker, and have had one since I was 18 (iam 40 now). So, there are times occassionally where i dont' feel "100%". And, I have been known to collapse on the floor at the house. Sometimes it's no big deal, and, I just lay down and everything gets better. OR, my wife calls 911, and I get shipped to the hospital. We live 5 1/2 miles from my "preferred" hospital. One time, as I was getting wheeled out of the house and into an ambulance, my wife calls our "Prayer" people to send out an e-mail for urgent prayer. E-mail goes out. The guy who teaches our sunday school class made it to the hospital BEFORE I DID. Within a half hour, a few more people showed up, including another friend who picked up something for my wife for lunch...on her own initiative...totally unexpected....... Throughout the day, while I was in the ER, many came by (which, for me helped...as many people know, when you get to the ER, there's ALOT of waiting)....of course, it was just a matter of time before our Minister came...and deacon, as well.
And, that has happened more than once....and, then, when i do get out of the hospital, people sign up to bring meals, so my wife doesn't have to worry about cooking, etc..etc...
2) I was "unemployed" 5 years ago. For 10 months. First of all, there was prayer. Lots of it. The church provided my family and I with countless "gift cards" to the grocery store, walmart, etc...etc...And, our minister & deacon were there for emotional and spiritural support. As we attended our sunday school class, it was COMMON to have someone slip me a $100 bill, as their way of helping out. They knew we had small children, and some people figured we could use a "date night' out, so one couple gave us tickets to the theatre, a card for a VERY nice restaurant, as well as babysitting money. Iam a graphic designer/art director. Many people in our class are "business people". Either own their own successful business, or are "C-Level" in corporations. Over those 10 months, i was blessed with ALOT of "freelance" consulting work, not only from the people in our class, but, as word got out, referrals started coming in from others within the church, and then other businesses....that provided me with, not only money to continue supporting my family, but WORK to get my mind off of the "job search" for a while each day. For 10 months, we were not late ONCE on our house payment, or many other bills. During that time, though, our car did need costly repairs. We would speak with the Director of our class about it, and the $800 or so dollars was provided by the class....more than once.
I mentioned, early on, to the class teacher, that I had some interviews scheduled at a locally-based oil company. That company is known for it's "business suit" 'dress code', and since all of my previous jobs had been in places with much more "casual" dress...i really didn't have "NICE/professional" ties...or a REALLY REALLY good suit (just one that was "ok")....and, WITHOUT ASKING, one day I get a call. It's a guy from a men's clothier....to set up an appointment ASAP to get me fitted for a custom-tailored suit, a few pairs of dress pants...and some custom made dress shirts to go with it...(all he said was some guys in the class had "taken care of it").....
So, that's just a FEW of MY experiences when it comes to our church...and how the ministers/deacons/leadership takes care of it's people....and explains the roles of the pastor, and our church leadership..... I could go on ALL DAY LONG....talking about the countless people, and how they have been ministered to by our church...not necessarily by our pastor...but, by the many ministers, and others in the church.....
So, does our Pastor get involved in EVERYONE'S lives? No. But, as I have mentioned before, he puts the right people (deacons, ministers) out there to take care of those 'day to day' needs. ALL of those things were taken care of either by the church...or by members of our sunday school class....likely our pastor didn't even know this was going on. He didn't need to, anyway. Now, if you're the type of person who NEEDS to know that the person in the "PASTOR" position will personally take care of ALL of those needs, then there are many smaller churches in the area where you can probably expect that to happen.
IN our previous church (much smaller)...such ministering was "hit and miss".....we never really "fit in" to the church, so, we didn't get relationships close with everyone (AFTER 4 YEARS!)...so, when something did happen, if someone "responded", great...if not, it wasn't a surprise. The much smaller churches we have visited were "a family"...BUT, only to those who were already there. My wife and I were "intruding" in on the "family"....it was like we showed up at a party that we weren't "invited" to, thus, we were the "outsiders". So, when we did leave (after 4 years of trying to make it work), we just left one day, and started looking for a new church home. And, no one noticed. No one called.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 11:34:57 AM
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worthaboverubies
Posts: 148
Joined: 8/11/2006
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quote:
where did I say what our pastor DOES NOT do?
perhaps you got my info mixed up with someone else's...
It's not that you specifically said that, it just seemed like info on what other people do. Maybe you could be more specific. Like do you have access to him, will he pray for people, does he talk to people, is he around for functions?
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 11:38:38 AM
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worthaboverubies
Posts: 148
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I see that I posted after you.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 11:56:40 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: worthaboverubies
quote:
where did I say what our pastor DOES NOT do?
perhaps you got my info mixed up with someone else's...
It's not that you specifically said that, it just seemed like info on what other people do. Maybe you could be more specific. Like do you have access to him, will he pray for people, does he talk to people, is he around for functions?
He'll pray for people....
He talks to many people.
Access? If necessary.....but, in 5 years, have never had a need to call up for an appointment or that kind of thing.
He is there for many functions (obviously he can't be there for all)...primarily the "church wide" functions.
I put in info on what other people do, because it is THOSE people who are accountable to the Pastor (since the pastor can't be everywhere at once.....and can really only do so much)
He oversees all of what I mentioned in my BIG post....and, in that manner, the pastor is totally "responsible" for making sure the spiritual, and material needs of the church and community are met.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 1:43:48 PM
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myka
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Nicole, how big is your church? How many people are attending/members?
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 3:00:39 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1863
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My main questions for a church would be
1. Does the Pastor preach and teach the plan of Salvation?
2. Is it made clear that ALL Scripture is God Breathed and what the Bible calls sin is sin?
3. Is there an Altar and a clear invitation given for anyone seeking prayer?
4. Is Sanctification taught as the example Christ has given us to follow and are all members taught through the Word how to grow spiritually in their daily walk?
IMO if the Pastor is failing in making sure those mentioned above are happening all the material assistance in the world doesn't matter.
Feeding the flock is one of the absolute MAJOR requirements given to a Pastor. Jesus did not say find ten other men and/or women to feed the flock.
filling an auditorium with thousands of people and giving a 15 minute "feel good" speech is not feeding the flock imo. It is soothing the flesh of a soul who will be spending eternity in Hell if a choice isn't made to accept a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and allow Him to be Lord of one's life.
I'd run from any Pastor, Leader, or Teacher that did not tell me that.
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 3:40:46 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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With regards to MY church:
1. Does the Pastor preach and teach the plan of Salvation? YES
2. Is it made clear that ALL Scripture is God Breathed and what the Bible calls sin is sin? YES
3. Is there an Altar and a clear invitation given for anyone seeking prayer? YES
4. Is Sanctification taught as the example Christ has given us to follow and are all members taught through the Word how to grow spiritually in their daily walk? YES
quote:
filling an auditorium with thousands of people and giving a 15 minute "feel good" speech is not feeding the flock imo.
And, as a result of my pastor making sure those things, and more, are done......the sanctuary is filled with thousands of people (16,000 or so a weekend...2 services on Sunday, 1 on Saturday night)....all knowing that they will hear the Word of God preached each and every Sunday (and Saturday night)......strong biblical teaching is a constant....from the pulpit, to the Bible Fellowship classrooms to the countless ministries that the church supports......
our huge flock is certainly being fed......the best fed flock that we're aware of (but, that's just pure opinion)
it all started the FIRST SUNDAY we visited that BIG church....we were "fed" so much that first time going to church, it was almost overwhelming....it made us realize how "underfed" we were at the small church we had been going to previously.
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: What is the pastor's role in church? - 10/22/2008 4:03:13 PM
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myka
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I've been part of a megachurch, also. Our experience was that within the large church, there were smaller groups (like small churches) that would care for and pray for one another. The preaching was definitely not 'feel good' sermons full of fluff -- we were fed. Our pastor was very caring and concerned about the spiritual health of the congregation and concerned that they had proper teaching. We also had a unique relationship in the church that allowed us to have personal knowledge of our pastor's vision and heart for the ministry.
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