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ORIGINAL: kernsfamily





anyway...to answer your questions...

First...was about the pastor visiting people who were sick and/or needed counsel.
In a much, much smaller church, that is possible. But, a large church operates a bit differently. In dire circumstances, yes, the pastor does get involved (we have the Senior Pastor, along with 3 others in the "pastor" role....each with slightly different responsiblities).... But, with 26,000 members, he can't get involved and visit/counsel everyone. I don't even see how that's possible with a church of just a few thousand. And, when we joined the church, it's not something we "expected" at all.

So, how does it work? First, there are deacons. Many deacons. They each have responsibilities towards caring for and looking after "the flock". Get sick or need counsel? You'll get your deacon.

Then, we also have ministers. For instance, my wife and I are in a sunday school class. Sunday school classes are almost like a very small church "within the church". And, for our Sunday school Department (married adult II, ages 30-40ish), there is a dedicated Minister, who looks over us...and is the "go to" guy for most anything. When I was unemployed 5 years ago, it was him that was contacted by our class leadership to "get the ball rolling" regarding assistance. Or, for "counsel" during that difficult time. It's certainly something that makes active "bible fellowship class" involvement VERY important. Without it, people do not get "connected"....

Then, we have the people within the class itself. Many couples have responsibilities, be it "In Reach", "Prayer", or "Fellowship". If you're not in class for a couple of weeks, you'll likely get a call. End up in the hospital? You'll get more people visiting you than you want! (ha ha ha)....

a few "testimonies" to this:

1) I have a pacemaker, and have had one since I was 18 (iam 40 now). So, there are times occassionally where i dont' feel "100%". And, I have been known to collapse on the floor at the house. Sometimes it's no big deal, and, I just lay down and everything gets better. OR, my wife calls 911, and I get shipped to the hospital. We live 5 1/2 miles from my "preferred" hospital. One time, as I was getting wheeled out of the house and into an ambulance, my wife calls our "Prayer" people to send out an e-mail for urgent prayer. E-mail goes out. The guy who teaches our sunday school class made it to the hospital BEFORE I DID. Within a half hour, a few more people showed up, including another friend who picked up something for my wife for lunch...on her own initiative...totally unexpected....... Throughout the day, while I was in the ER, many came by (which, for me helped...as many people know, when you get to the ER, there's ALOT of waiting)....of course, it was just a matter of time before our Minister came...and deacon, as well.
And, that has happened more than once....and, then, when i do get out of the hospital, people sign up to bring meals, so my wife doesn't have to worry about cooking, etc..etc...

2) I was "unemployed" 5 years ago. For 10 months. First of all, there was prayer. Lots of it. The church provided my family and I with countless "gift cards" to the grocery store, walmart, etc...etc...And, our minister & deacon were there for emotional and spiritural support. As we attended our sunday school class, it was COMMON to have someone slip me a $100 bill, as their way of helping out. They knew we had small children, and some people figured we could use a "date night' out, so one couple gave us tickets to the theatre, a card for a VERY nice restaurant, as well as babysitting money. Iam a graphic designer/art director. Many people in our class are "business people". Either own their own successful business, or are "C-Level" in corporations. Over those 10 months, i was blessed with ALOT of "freelance" consulting work, not only from the people in our class, but, as word got out, referrals started coming in from others within the church, and then other businesses....that provided me with, not only money to continue supporting my family, but WORK to get my mind off of the "job search" for a while each day. For 10 months, we were not late ONCE on our house payment, or many other bills. During that time, though, our car did need costly repairs. We would speak with the Director of our class about it, and the $800 or so dollars was provided by the class....more than once.
I mentioned, early on, to the class teacher, that I had some interviews scheduled at a locally-based oil company. That company is known for it's "business suit" 'dress code', and since all of my previous jobs had been in places with much more "casual" dress...i really didn't have "NICE/professional" ties...or a REALLY REALLY good suit (just one that was "ok")....and, WITHOUT ASKING, one day I get a call. It's a guy from a men's clothier....to set up an appointment ASAP to get me fitted for a custom-tailored suit, a few pairs of dress pants...and some custom made dress shirts to go with it...(all he said was some guys in the class had "taken care of it").....

So, that's just a FEW of MY experiences when it comes to our church...and how the ministers/deacons/leadership takes care of it's people....and explains the roles of the pastor, and our church leadership..... I could go on ALL DAY LONG....talking about the countless people, and how they have been ministered to by our church...not necessarily by our pastor...but, by the many ministers, and others in the church.....

So, does our Pastor get involved in EVERYONE'S lives? No. But, as I have mentioned before, he puts the right people (deacons, ministers) out there to take care of those 'day to day' needs. ALL of those things were taken care of either by the church...or by members of our sunday school class....likely our pastor didn't even know this was going on. He didn't need to, anyway. Now, if you're the type of person who NEEDS to know that the person in the "PASTOR" position will personally take care of ALL of those needs, then there are many smaller churches in the area where you can probably expect that to happen.

IN our previous church (much smaller)...such ministering was "hit and miss".....we never really "fit in" to the church, so, we didn't get relationships close with everyone (AFTER 4 YEARS!)...so, when something did happen, if someone "responded", great...if not, it wasn't a surprise. The much smaller churches we have visited were "a family"...BUT, only to those who were already there. My wife and I were "intruding" in on the "family"....it was like we showed up at a party that we weren't "invited" to, thus, we were the "outsiders". So, when we did leave (after 4 years of trying to make it work), we just left one day, and started looking for a new church home. And, no one noticed. No one called.

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John 10:3 says "But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep." It does not say only those who go to seminary are shepherds. No, Jesus says "he who enters by the door is a shepherd". That means each one of us! Each one who knows Jesus is to shepherd the flock, take responsibility for the care and nurture of other sheep.

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ORIGINAL: myka

Nicole, I agree with you about not having enough people to run the church like a mega church. And I don't think there is a 'need' to do that. I think that there are a lot of pastors who get enamored with the size of mega churches and want that for themselves, of course, in a spiritual way. (but that is just my opinion...)

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ORIGINAL: myka
Nicole, I agree with you about not having enough people to run the church like a mega church. And I don't think there is a 'need' to do that. I think that there are a lot of pastors who get enamored with the size of mega churches and want that for themselves, of course, in a spiritual way. (but that is just my opinion...)

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I guess for my church my pastor thinks he can run it like a mega church, but he can't because the workers are few. Very few. You can't run a church like that with only 70 regular attendees.

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...as a side issue (I'm not trying to pull this off topic), I'm not sure these mega-churches are able to fully staff all their programs either.

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that is one of the problems I have with the mega churches..altho there are many more...and that is lack of good stewardship.

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ORIGINAL: nicole6598

Kerns he is trying to run it like a mega church in that he is saying all these things he isn't going to do, but then not having anyone to pick up the slack. We have very few leaders and helpers and those we do have are overworked and worn out. Its the same old people everytime there is a working bee, or food needs cooking, or there is a fete and we need helpers etc etc. Having a small congregation means you won't have that many people really who can step up. Even though it would be lovely to have EVERYONE in a place where they want to serve, we are humans and not everyone wants to. There are also alot of young families, so alot of the mothers can't help because of kids and the majority of the men in the church are shift workers so they can't always make it to church or help with church functions and ministries. Not that we have a great deal of ministries. We didn't have a yough group for a year. children's church runs well but the 3 women there are so dedicated I think they would keep plugging along if all their arms and legs dropped off.

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ORIGINAL: buckifn

bruce

that is one of the problems I have with the mega churches..altho there are many more...and that is lack of good stewardship. I can't see justifying such an expense for musician's outside the church when surely there is SOMEONE who can use their gift that is already there.

If you figure that wage per month x 12 that would be enough money to feed a lot of hungry families.

It just adds to the image of huge efforts being expended to put on a glitzy show in the name of religion.

Also, the fact that faithful membership being a requirement of anyone in a leadership position is lacking would be an instant turn-off.... No reflection at all towards your son, but towards ANY musician who was not a faithful member...how would they know what kind of Christian testimony he has and if he is an example of Biblical leadership?

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wouldn't be surprised if a LOWER percentage of meg-church budgets go toward "themselves" (staff, building and program expenses) than the budgets in small churches. There are probably some small churches where 90% or more of their budget goes to pay the pastor's salary.

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ORIGINAL: buckifn

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wouldn't be surprised if a LOWER percentage of meg-church budgets go toward "themselves" (staff, building and program expenses) than the budgets in small churches. There are probably some small churches where 90% or more of their budget goes to pay the pastor's salary.

I know ours is around the 35% range for salary...but I think we could very well be more of an exception and not the norm for a smaller church.

We are in an excellent position when it comes to debt which helps tremendously....our main focus right now is finding ways to expand outreach ministry in the community to those in need.

Just curious...do you lean more towards knowing those in leadership and accountability or more towards it doesn't matter as long as they are gifted in that area?

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

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ORIGINAL: zoebob

I want to clarify that my pastor will counsel in spiritual issues. However, things like relationship/spousal issues is where he will refer to the other man.

Zoebob, I do not wish to diss your pastor, but is not how we live our lives and or relationship totally dependent on our Spiritual condition.

To consider otherwise is to say that phychology trumps the work of the Holy Spiri in a true Christiant. The Scriptures define absollutely how we are to live our lives; and the recipe for fixing those things that do not seem corrrect.

If a Pastor is not sufficiently versed in or does not have the faith to believe in Scripture, Then he does not need to be a Pastor.

Christ said;

[b](Luk 4:18,`9) The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

toss this in with;

(Gal 5:22,23) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

and blend all this with;

(Mat 22:37-40) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

And you have all the answers to all the relationalship problems that are possible; and all these fall under the purview of the Pastor's duty.

Thanks
RC

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ORIGINAL: nicole6598

Kerns he is trying to run it like a mega church in that he is saying all these things he isn't going to do, but then not having anyone to pick up the slack. We have very few leaders and helpers and those we do have are overworked and worn out. Its the same old people everytime there is a working bee, or food needs cooking, or there is a fete and we need helpers etc etc. Having a small congregation means you won't have that many people really who can step up. Even though it would be lovely to have EVERYONE in a place where they want to serve, we are humans and not everyone wants to. There are also alot of young families, so alot of the mothers can't help because of kids and the majority of the men in the church are shift workers so they can't always make it to church or help with church functions and ministries. Not that we have a great deal of ministries. We didn't have a yough group for a year. children's church runs well but the 3 women there are so dedicated I think they would keep plugging along if all their arms and legs dropped off.

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The church you attend sounds great, and it is no wonder it has grown so large. The thing is, I get uneasy around a lot of people. There is a church in the area where I live that has around 5000 people, but that kind of intimidates me.

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Perhaps they have smaller groups where I could fit into and have the opportunity to connect with others.

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I just don't like all of the different denominations, and how some will knock other denominations when we are all part of the body of Christ and all baptised into one spirit. I feel like there are way too many denominations for them all to be from the same bible.