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TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 12:48:30 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
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You all have probably read my comments about my dislike of mccain, so that just about no one can convince me that he has any good - so far.
OK I would like to challenge someone to see if you could POSSIBLY turn my opinion around, if you think he is so wonderful, - Remember we have a few days left to vote, and i have not voted.
one condition - please leave off the abortion thing - as that has been talked about ad nauseum.
What else does your candidate have to his favor?
i would be shocked if anyone could turn me around. I promise you that if anyone convinces me, i will admit I have been wrong.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 12:52:21 PM
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Bas
Posts: 275
Joined: 4/15/2006
From: Washington, DC
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The 'abortion thing'.
That sounds like a pretty flip attitude for literally a life and death issue.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 1:05:32 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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Well, if you knew nothing about the existing candidates, what exactly would be you looking for in a candidate?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 1:07:14 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bas
The 'abortion thing'.
That sounds like a pretty flip attitude for literally a life and death issue.
you misunderstand me.
I just dont want that one issue in this particular topic.
OK do you have some mccain-lovin to add to this topic? im tired of being so negative here about him, i would like to hear some positives.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 1:08:19 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well, if you knew nothing about the existing candidates, what exactly would be you looking for in a candidate?
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class (i think im middle class). I'd like to hear some facts, not a bunch of rhetoric. I wish we would have heard more of what each candidate WILL do instead of the constant jabbing back and forth we heard a bit too much of.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 1:10:15 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class (i think im middle class). I'd like to hear some facts, not a bunch of rhetoric. I wish we would have heard more of what each candidate WILL do instead of the constant jabbing back and forth we heard a bit too much of.
Well, I appreciate that, but that wasn't the question I asked - if you knew neither Obama or McCain existed, what would you want in a candidate?
In essence, what would be your 'dream candidate'?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 1:30:49 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class
How about not raising your taxes, or better yet, not raising the taxes on those that provide jobs for you and the rest of the middle class so that they can provide even more jobs to more people?
How about a strong stand on national security to prevent a repeat of 9/11?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 1:39:11 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1749
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class
I as going to ignore this thread because, after all the discussions in this folder, you've stuck to your man despite any convincing arguments. Yet, the comment above indicates to me that you've bitten the hook on the class warfare talk of the DNC.
While Obama says he's going to lok out for the middle class, his answer to Joe the plumber is indicative of how he percieves the middle class. He wants to keep us all in the middle class, to discourage anyone form trying to work their way into wealth.
What I fear, however, is that his tax policies are going to stifle economic growth. We, the middle class, need jobs. McCain's plan encourages growth of private business.
The complexities of the tax code as well as having to pay the government a portion of your proceeds have even caused competion among the states. I live in MN. On the radio I hear a daily ad from the State of SD encouraging MN businesses to relocate to SD where there are fewer regulations and less taxes. Politicians complain about businesses evading taxes by going over seas. Yet, it is the government itself that drives corporations away which sends jobs elsewhere.
If we unlocked ANWAR and many of the other places we could drill for oil, countless jobs wil lbe created and our econmy would boom. We would also begin to decrease our dependency on oil coming from nations who'd rather see us cease to exist.
I'm not sure, however, that anything will convince you to move away from your man. I can't make you see beyond yourself.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 1:49:19 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
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Judges!
THE most critical difference between Obama and McCain is NOT how they will handle the economy. It is where they will turn to select the judges of the Supreme Court and lower courts.
We have a Constitution. There are two views as to the role of the Judicial Branch of government and the Constitution. Does it hold strictly to the original meaning of the Constitution or is it permissible to carve out NEW rights and legislation based on a new interpretation of the words.
One segment of our society longs to accomplish in the courts what they have not been able to accomplish in the legislative bodies. The other segment feels that it is not up to the Supreme Court to legislate from the bench. John McCain is in this latter group.
The court has FAR more power to turn this country in radical directions than either the Executive or Legislative branchs, for any check on its power comes only with the enormous effort of creating a new amendment.
People might say, "It's the Economy, Stupid!" But, in reality, "It's the Courts!"
That, ultimately is where freedom will be preserved or lost forever.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:05:05 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class
I as going to ignore this thread because, after all the discussions in this folder, you've stuck to your man despite any convincing arguments. Yet, the comment above indicates to me that you've bitten the hook on the class warfare talk of the DNC.
I'm not sure, however, that anything will convince you to move away from your man. I can't make you see beyond yourself.
Zamdad - can you pleasse tell me who you are addressing? as I dont have any "man" except maybe nader or barr, now. i dont know, theres about 15 more days. i thought i would put in a positive topic for once.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:13:25 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1749
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class
I as going to ignore this thread because, after all the discussions in this folder, you've stuck to your man despite any convincing arguments. Yet, the comment above indicates to me that you've bitten the hook on the class warfare talk of the DNC.
I'm not sure, however, that anything will convince you to move away from your man. I can't make you see beyond yourself.
Zamdad - can you pleasse tell me who you are addressing? as I dont have any "man" except maybe nader or barr, now. i dont know, theres about 15 more days. i thought i would put in a positive topic for once.
Sorry, I was thinking, from your comments in other discusions, that you were supporting Obama. Barr and Nader, in my opinion, are nothing more than wasted votes. Ultimately, it comes down to McCain or Obama. Your question dealt with how this was going to affect you, the middle class. I think I addressed that.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:16:50 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class
I as going to ignore this thread because, after all the discussions in this folder, you've stuck to your man despite any convincing arguments. Yet, the comment above indicates to me that you've bitten the hook on the class warfare talk of the DNC.
I'm not sure, however, that anything will convince you to move away from your man. I can't make you see beyond yourself.
Zamdad - can you pleasse tell me who you are addressing? as I dont have any "man" except maybe nader or barr, now. i dont know, theres about 15 more days. i thought i would put in a positive topic for once.
Sorry, I was thinking, from your comments in other discusions, that you were supporting Obama. Barr and Nader, in my opinion, are nothing more than wasted votes. Ultimately, it comes down to McCain or Obama. Your question dealt with how this was going to affect you, the middle class. I think I addressed that.
OH YEAH, just checkin :) I was originallly for Obama, but some folks made me think otherwise, i really didn't like either mccain or obama but i woudl have picked obama. however, because i dont relaly liike either, i have to find another person. i cannot for conscience sake pick either, but i dont want to do nothing. who kknows, if someone can convince me anything can happen, but this topic is also to offset a lot of negativity and i really do want to know what mccain could do for us middle class if elected. i'd like to know that...
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:18:14 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Here's my stab.
#1) I know is not good enough for most, but is sufficient for me.
McCain is NOT Obama.
#2) Obama refused to be sworn into the Senate on a Bible.
Remember a senator that insisted on being sworn in on a Koran?
Yet, claims to be a christian. His church of 22 years violates the Bible.
For those who are not up on many global issues. It's okay if a muslim
(and I didn't say he was) attends a christian church, gives money, confesses
faith of said church. But, if they are baptized into a new-found faith, they
are on the death list. Obama says his girls were baptized by Wright, I haven't
heard a word about him being baptized yet says Wright presented Christ to him.
#3) Obama refused to salute the flag, wear a flag pin, acknowledge the national anthem.
Now he wears a pin because it's expedient. He shows NO allegiance to this country he
wants to "control."
#4) He twists his words so the uninformed don't understand what he is really saying.
But, a lot of preachers do the same thing. The uninformed are swayed by every wind
of doctrine. Political wind is the same way.
#5) His record speaks for itself. It is complete defiance of his words.
#6) He has a octopus of a political system that breaks election laws.
ACORN. Accept it or reject it.
#7) The latest is the millions of dollars he raised just this month already.
The news has found that much of it comes from outside the US. Another violation.
#8) He lied about the way he would run his campaign.
#9) The white-hating muslim leader (can't remember his name) dubs him the Messiah
that has the ear of the youth. The one who did the million-man march.
#10) Oh, and Joe the plumber. The political machine is trying to destroy him to take
the attention of the "truth" Obama uttered. I want to spread the wealth.
Am I bias? Yes. For McCain? No.
But, without a doubt McCain is American.
I don't agree with him on many issues. He's too liberal for me, but Obama is beyond liberal.
A list could go on and on, but it would be classified as rhetoric.
So, it has to be, do I really understand what either of them are saying.
Am I truly paying attention? Am I just going by party lines? Is my thoughts really good for the whole?
As just mentioned. "Judges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
There is an agenda to destroy this nation from within, because it cannot be destroyed from without.
Our enemies are fulfilling their threats from decades past.
Is Obama American? There is reasonable doubt whether he is or not. Born in Kenya, or Hawaii?
Is Obama Christian? Definitely not. All politicians claim to be Christian.
We know them by their fruit.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:18:22 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class (i think im middle class).
Someone has already observed that the very way this is worded demonstrates the narcissistic spirit that has engulfed the American electorate to the point where they are now ripe for the picking.
I heard a report on ABC news that purported to show how Obama is going to 'give' Americans $500 and McCain is only going to 'give' them $85. Neither man is really 'giving' anything. You and I are the ones that will be 'giving' to our neighbors while they 'give' to us. It's a cash swap Ponzi scheme.
The government has nothing with which to give except what it takes from the very people it purports to give to. Does the government create its own wealth? No. It must take it.
So, the best way for a president to benefit you is to just plain leave you alone. That is EXACTLY what the Boston Tea Party was all about. John McCain will leave you alone more than Obama will leave you alone. John McCain will start fewer wasteful government initiatives that will cost you more and more over the years than Obama will.
You mentioned the middle class. It is the Middle Class that is the first to disappear under socialism. I have a young friend that just moved to Nicaragua. She commutes via the internet and consults to an American company. I asked her, "Why would you want to live in a communist country." Her answer was that there is no middle class left in Nicaragua creating a vacuum in which they and other Americans could live quite well. Here she and her husband would love modestly. There, they have maids and servants.
Is there a middle class in Cuba? Is there a middle class in Russia? Is there a middle class in China? Is there a middle class in North Korea? What is the state of the middle class in Venezuela or in Chile? It is ALWAYS the MIDDLE CLASS that suffers and declines under socialism.
McCaine is less likely to take us into radical socialism. Obama is guaranteed to do it. Socialism is at the very root of his personal heritage and his political heritage. It is his roots.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:22:25 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
OH YEAH, just checkin :) I was originallly for Obama, but some folks made me think otherwise, i really didn't like either mccain or obama but i woudl have picked obama. however, because i dont relaly liike either, i have to find another person. i cannot for conscience sake pick either, but i dont want to do nothing. who kknows, if someone can convince me anything can happen, but this topic is also to offset a lot of negativity and i really do want to know what mccain could do for us middle class if elected. i'd like to know that...
This clarified your question, so my post is inconsequential.
You can disregard.
Why would I vote McCain? May be the real question.
For me, I was voting "against" Obama, as we do in most elections.
With the debate at Saddleback, I was convinced that I could vote "for" McCain.
I will vote for him anyway, but I would like to vote as much "for" someone, as
I vote "against" the opposing candidate.
I might like one of the others better, but a vote for them may be as much a
vote for Obama. Winning is the goal.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:24:12 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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Those are huge informative helps. thank you.
ok more love for mccain.... i appreciate the comments.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:24:17 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
Status: offline
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quote:
OH YEAH, just checkin :) I was originallly for Obama, but some folks made me think otherwise, i really didn't like either mccain or obama but i woudl have picked obama. however, because i dont relaly liike either, i have to find another person. i cannot for conscience sake pick either, but i dont want to do nothing. who kknows, if someone can convince me anything can happen, but this topic is also to offset a lot of negativity and i really do want to know what mccain could do for us middle class if elected. i'd like to know that...
I am still curious how you would describe the best possible candidate?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:25:46 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
The government has nothing with which to give except what it takes from the very people it purports to give to. Does the government create its own wealth? No. It must take it.
quote:
McCaine is less likely to take us into radical socialism. Obama is guaranteed to do it. Socialism is at the very root of his personal heritage and his political heritage. It is his roots.
The truth very plainly said.
Thanks
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:26:31 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
OH YEAH, just checkin :) I was originallly for Obama, but some folks made me think otherwise, i really didn't like either mccain or obama but i woudl have picked obama. however, because i dont relaly liike either, i have to find another person. i cannot for conscience sake pick either, but i dont want to do nothing. who kknows, if someone can convince me anything can happen, but this topic is also to offset a lot of negativity and i really do want to know what mccain could do for us middle class if elected. i'd like to know that...
I am still curious how you would describe the best possible candidate?
oh hang on that will tkae more time to compose somethign..
but it would be nice to see someone actually do what they promise.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:28:30 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
but it would be nice to see someone actually do what they promise.
Are we talking about the political world? or, the church world?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I agree with you 100 %.
A truly honest man.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:36:54 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1749
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
who kknows, if someone can convince me anything can happen, but this topic is also to offset a lot of negativity and i really do want to know what mccain could do for us middle class if elected. i'd like to know that...
I addressed this already. I'd like to know your thoughts on what I said. Also, I think TMeeks has addressed this rather well. You want to get away from negativity, discussing these issues is a good way to get away from the negativity.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:39:47 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
but it would be nice to see someone actually do what they promise.
Are we talking about the political world? or, the church world?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I agree with you 100 %.
A truly honest man.
both!! :)
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:41:17 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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You might be interested in this that I found while researching the growth on costs and confiscations for Social Security. It's a classic example of one government agency (Some Texas School systems) stealing from YOU and ME through another goverment agency, the Social Security Administration. And, the SSA not caring becuase it's not actually THEIR money, it's OURS!!!
The Texas Schools Scam Social Security and SSA doesn't care!
Living in the DC area, I know many government contract officers. At the end of each year they virtually THROW MILLIONS at big contractors to avoid not only losing it; but, not getting at least the same amount next year. So, some contracts end up being funded 5 years in advance even though they have not proven that they can deliver a single thing! That's YOUR money and MY money; but, they think it's THEIR money.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
The government has nothing with which to give except what it takes from the very people it purports to give to. Does the government create its own wealth? No. It must take it.
quote:
McCaine is less likely to take us into radical socialism. Obama is guaranteed to do it. Socialism is at the very root of his personal heritage and his political heritage. It is his roots.
The truth very plainly said.
Thanks
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:43:20 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
I'd like to know how mccain is going to benefit me, the middle class
I as going to ignore this thread because, after all the discussions in this folder, you've stuck to your man despite any convincing arguments. Yet, the comment above indicates to me that you've bitten the hook on the class warfare talk of the DNC.
While Obama says he's going to lok out for the middle class, his answer to Joe the plumber is indicative of how he percieves the middle class. He wants to keep us all in the middle class, to discourage anyone form trying to work their way into wealth.
What I fear, however, is that his tax policies are going to stifle economic growth. We, the middle class, need jobs. McCain's plan encourages growth of private business.
The complexities of the tax code as well as having to pay the government a portion of your proceeds have even caused competion among the states. I live in MN. On the radio I hear a daily ad from the State of SD encouraging MN businesses to relocate to SD where there are fewer regulations and less taxes. Politicians complain about businesses evading taxes by going over seas. Yet, it is the government itself that drives corporations away which sends jobs elsewhere.
If we unlocked ANWAR and many of the other places we could drill for oil, countless jobs wil lbe created and our econmy would boom. We would also begin to decrease our dependency on oil coming from nations who'd rather see us cease to exist.
I'm not sure, however, that anything will convince you to move away from your man. I can't make you see beyond yourself.
it appears that if your rich or poor you will have advantages. the middle class seem to get nothing much. your too rich to qualify for government assitance, college loans, etc... the rich have enuf money so they dont need anything; we do need to find a way to increase jobs.
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RE: TRY TO SELL ME ON MCCAIN - 10/20/2008 2:49:51 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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The Liberals Handbook defines "rich" as
anyone who has a job that we can tax.
Sounds like a joke, but it isn't.
quote:
That's YOUR money and MY money; but, they think it's THEIR money.
WE want to redistribute the wealth.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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