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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:18:09 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 2199
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
Why can't there be a simple no, but thank you? If you do the positive "honest" reply (you have this ____ going for you), he might not take that no as a firm no because he'll see a glimmer of potential if he is persistent enough. And do most guys out there really want an honest list of improvements? (I'm really not being sarcastic here)
There can be. And yes, that is a risk. But I think that with some thought, both can be conveyed. We should always be looking at our relations with other people, and I'm talking about both men and women, and work to improve them so that more and more opennes is feasible, so that we can be better communicators, more honest people, better related people, better friends, better husbands and wives, and better servants of God. And communication is a powerful tool for this. That's mainly what I'm trying to get at. We all need to work to be better, more honest communicators.
But the main thing is that we must eschew dishonesty, no matter how little we feel comfortable revealing, we need to not butress the truth with error or lies or soft soap.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:21:34 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 2199
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
What guy wants to ask out a girl who has told previous suitors, "Sorry...you don't dress neatly enough..." "Sorry...you laugh too loudly..." "Sorry...you don't pray as much as I'd like..." "Sorry...you go to the wrong church..." You know?
I'm one of the few people that stakes my reputation on my blunt honesty so I generally don't care too much to be so. In fact that is one reason Kyoudai and I remained friends as long as we did. When we FIRST became friends I approached him and asked if he wanted to date, or just be friends or what. We discussed it, and after our friendship grew we would talk more about it and realised that we were not compatible AT ALL as anything more than friends. I have since discovered we aren't even that compatible. *sigh*
You make some good points. When you say it that way, I guess I may be off base. But still, it's a painful day when you realize that no one has cared enough about you to tell you that you've been rejected for something you could easily have fixed.
So, maybe complete disclosure isn't the right tack, but some indication is better than none, or worse, a dishonest answer. So, I'll say: Give as much or as little reason as you like, ladies, but be sure you're telling the truth about your reasons.
And on the subject of things like dress... There's a tertium quod here: "I'd go out with you, if you'd dress up a little more when you ask me out and when we were on the date."
Skrey, it is also helpful if you were to turn to your friends (the ones that can be brutally honest with you) and say "is there something wrong? is there something I can fix?". They are not the ones dating with you, but they can give you an unbiased opinion. They can give you insight to some objective things that maybe a lady who you just asked out wouldn't feel comfortable telling you.
Yes, you are right.
But in the case of a "yes, if", I think the lady should definitely not say "no"...
I think, though, that men are more likely to ask their friends about things like that if they hear "no" instead of "let's be friends". I don't think most women realize how much that hurts a man's opinion of a woman.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:26:18 PM
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skreyola
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
i think if someone was on the fence about another person, they'd be willing to accept a date offer. but it seems we are talking about people who know for sure they aren't a good match, i don't think people are going to be brutally honest in their no. it's just too awkward usually.
I don't think we are. I mean, that's been mentioned a lot, but the advice of letting a guy down gently was "to a girl if she is asked out by a guy she isn't romantically attracted to", which sounds to me like simply no fireworks when you see him. Coupled with the encouragement the OP made for women to accept some dates to see where things go, I think we're mainly talking about two things: women who don't see a clear reason why the guy won't work out, and advice to not be dishonest or haughty in rejecting a guy.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:52:03 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 426
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From: Music City, USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
on the date.....but what if she has a different dating style? Perhaps she is like johnno and doesn't want a date that she knows wouldn't go anywhere....or maybe she is like someone else who will date anyone and everyone....or maybe she is a little in between.
Then, she should be honest about her reasons. "I'm looking for a husband rather than a date. I don't see you as a possibility to be my husband, but I see these nice qualities in you:_______ You'll make someone a good husband, but you're not right for me."
Sure, there may be some men who think you're lying, but isn't it better to be open and honest and thought a liar than to withhold information that might, just might, make a guy understand that it really isn't him but you that is the reason for the no?
skreyola,
I appreciate that you and many guys want the honest feedback, especially if a guy has an issue (like hygiene) that is pretty easily "fixable," in contrast to an issue of "Our difference in <this area of compatibility> is just too vast for us to be a good match. The evidence comes from my observations about ________. And I value this area of compatibility because _________."
After dating and relating to someone I gave a chance to (I hadn't initially thought him a potential romantic interest, though woman's intuition had its antennae up and was picking up on some signals), I figured out pretty quickly that the difference between us in intellectual agility was too vast for me to see us as a good potential match. He refused to believe that my concern was a valid one. He kept pressing his "suit" upon me. And kept trying to convince me otherwise --- that my concern itself was not legitimate.
So... I wonder.... If the issue boils down to a vast difference in compatibility that has to do with who the man fundamentally is and who the woman fundamentally is, then is going over and over that reality a productive endeavor?
I'd say yes, if both persons take humble, teachable attitudes and approaches to the dialogue... if both the man and the woman want to learn more about the sorts of people who would be strong matches for them.
But if a man is "dead-set" on winning this woman's admiration and affection --- if he has invested his emotions and hopes way too quickly and way too early and way too strongly --- then likely he will be loathe to listen to rational, logical reasons for why this woman rejects him as a suitor.
The other issue I'm pondering is this:
What if the man and the woman have not know each other long enough for his knowing so much about her inner workings
to be warranted.
He may have a WANT to know all of the processes, whys, and wherefores of how she came to her decision. But it is not a NEED to know. Those are HER inner workings, not every woman's.
Make sense?
(I think some of the corollary issues are worth exploring in "off-shoot" threads. I may start one today if I have time.)
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 2:04:14 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 426
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From: Music City, USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
What guy wants to ask out a girl who has told previous suitors, "Sorry...you don't dress neatly enough..." "Sorry...you laugh too loudly..." "Sorry...you don't pray as much as I'd like..." "Sorry...you go to the wrong church..." You know?
I'm one of the few people that stakes my reputation on my blunt honesty so I generally don't care too much to be so. In fact that is one reason Kyoudai and I remained friends as long as we did. When we FIRST became friends I approached him and asked if he wanted to date, or just be friends or what. We discussed it, and after our friendship grew we would talk more about it and realised that we were not compatible AT ALL as anything more than friends. I have since discovered we aren't even that compatible. *sigh*
You make some good points. When you say it that way, I guess I may be off base. But still, it's a painful day when you realize that no one has cared enough about you to tell you that you've been rejected for something you could easily have fixed.
So, maybe complete disclosure isn't the right tack, but some indication is better than none, or worse, a dishonest answer. So, I'll say: Give as much or as little reason as you like, ladies, but be sure you're telling the truth about your reasons.
And on the subject of things like dress... There's a tertium quod here: "I'd go out with you, if you'd dress up a little more when you ask me out and when we were on the date."
Skrey, it is also helpful if you were to turn to your friends (the ones that can be brutally honest with you) and say "is there something wrong? is there something I can fix?". They are not the ones dating with you, but they can give you an unbiased opinion. They can give you insight to some objective things that maybe a lady who you just asked out wouldn't feel comfortable telling you.
That's one way a man shows that he indeed puts his confidence in Christ and is reflective, teachable, and humble ---> that he invites wise counsel, even practical counsel, from his family and friends... that he not only hears their insights but puts them into practice. That this response comes after howmanyever answers of "no" to his offers of a date.
Perhaps that's what we women should be praying for the men who have nursed the stings of rejection to the point that those stings become "open, festering, pus-filled wounds" (as my US History teacher used to say...to describe the Civil War!)....
that the men SEEK help and input from those who really can offer it..... and that they submit themselves to solid Christian mentorship from older men who are MARRIED (which is what most guys are seeking as their goal: marriage).
Now... on the flip side..... how about for us women who get "down in the mouth" about not having received many (or any, as the case may be) requests for a date over the course of our lives?
And.... for everyone..... how much are we individuals neglecting our own responsibilities of what WE do with the ways people respond to us and interact with us?
Are we conflating other people's reactions and responses into HUGE philosophies about ourselves that are NOT based on Truth??? On the Word of God?
Sometimes we build up expectations of how other people OUGHT to act.... because we are filtering reality through our lens of "Well, that's how I've been hurt in the past, so other people should never ever do <this, that, or the other thing> at all!!!" ....... because.......
Maybe one person wants that near-brutal honesty. But maybe another has had way too many people offering unsolicted observations about him/herself and has lived too long trying to please others.
Ah, yes..... human relationships of every kind and on every level..... involve risk. REQUIRE risk.
It is only through Christ that we are empowered, equipped, and commanded to take that risk.
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 2:21:55 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 4461
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
I don't think we are. I mean, that's been mentioned a lot, but the advice of letting a guy down gently was "to a girl if she is asked out by a guy she isn't romantically attracted to", which sounds to me like simply no fireworks when you see him.
well then i disagree with OP's premise as i think the hypothesis is flawed ... i usually read that women (AND MEN) should still consider a date even if the sparks aren't flying ... boundless is filled with such articles for example ...
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 5:11:21 PM
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Raptorman
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Boundless is good in some areas, but I seriously part ways with them in some teachings/advice, including that which relates to dating/sex/marriage (in fact, it was from a Boundless article where I thought of a specific example of essentially saying "Turn him down gently if he's inconvenient"). But when time permits, I'll be happy to go into greater detail. Alas, the grating call of homework is hard to tune out. 
I suppose I should clear something up. If I know a girl is not even the least bit interested in dating me, even once, chances are that I will not try asking her out. The problem is that oftentimes guys have no clue if she's interested in him or not. Sorry if I wasn't clear before, but that was the situation I had in mind: If a guy doesn't know whether a certain girl is willing to go out with him, that's usually the main cause behind his emotional risk, and his hopes being painfully dashed if/when she says no. In most cases, it's just sad when a girl makes it clear that she's not interested in him, but he keeps asking her out anyway. So I'm talking more about a state of uncertainty.
The same would apply to John_O's scenario of a girl seriously not wanting to date a guy, but she says yes and is in agony the whole time. If I want to ask a girl out but our personalities ended up clashing so sharply, I definitely would not want her to suffer like that. I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a guy and girl who don't know each other very well, and are unsure about attitude and personality.
I'm never going to say that a girl absolutely must say yes to any guy who asks her out. I'm just saying (from a guy's perspective, of course) it's advisable to do it only when she can think of a very good reason, as other people have wisely stated here. But feel free to correct me if I have missed something. Thanks for your time, guys! I'll get more detailed in responses soon enough.
< Message edited by Raptorman -- 10/22/2008 5:23:08 PM >
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"If we valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." - J.R.R. Tolkien
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 6:18:32 PM
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Elena1030
Posts: 426
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Raptorman
Boundless is good in some areas, but I seriously part ways with them in some teachings/advice, including that which relates to dating/sex/marriage (in fact, it was from a Boundless article where I thought of a specific example of essentially saying "Turn him down gently if he's inconvenient"). But when time permits, I'll be happy to go into greater detail. Alas, the grating call of homework is hard to tune out.
Hmm... inconvenient in what way? What's our working definition of inconvenient, for this discussion? =) Always good to define the terms! 
quote:
I'm never going to say that a girl absolutely must say yes to any guy who asks her out. I'm just saying (from a guy's perspective, of course) it's advisable to do it only when she can think of a very good reason, as other people have wisely stated here.
Well, that sounds good and right ... but let's look a bit closer.
Perhaps she thinks her reason is very good, but she doesn't tell him what it is. Does he have a right to know? Who decides if he does? She thinks he doesn't; he thinks he does. How to judge between those two?
Or she tells him, and he thinks her reason (or reasoning) is BUNK. Who is right? And does it matter in the end?
Or... she thinks her reason is OK; he thinks her reason is so-so/ok/he'll deal with it; and GOD knows that her reason is not based on biblical principles and truth. How does each party know that God disproves... if neither is really seeking His take on things, even though they are believers?
Let's look with eternal eyes: what is important here?
That each person be using the Bible as the plumbline for making the judgment call. And that both parties act out of agape-love.
You can do that and still differ... still have one party wanting a date and the other party saying no.
Only God can see all of the inner workings of any person's mind/heart. And only if He supernaturally reveals to you an insight about the other person, will you know any more than what human observation can deduce. (That's what the Holy Spirit does --- and He does it when and how He decides.)
Just as when you share the gospel or water the seed of salvation in someone ---> you don't always get to see the previous stages and the current growth and the fruit that is produced.... so it is with relationships...... you may never know completely (or even an inkling) of why --- and how "good" the reason is --- for a person's behavior toward you. God may choose not to shed light upon those facts.
Trust Him --- He knows what He is doing with how much information about the other person's inner workings
you truly need.
AND what is at heart of a man's so strongly wanting to know that not only does a woman have a REASON to reject him but also that it is a good one?
I'd say that he wants to be able to say, "Well, she's not rejecting me; she's rejecting this fact about me."
But that's minimizing the reality rather than facing it.
Reality is: she didn't choose you. Period.
What makes her acceptance or rejection of your offer of coffee a pronouncement upon your worth as a man, your worth as a potential romantic partner for someone and upon the effort you put into approaching her?
And... even if she knew how much effort you put into "girding up your loins" to approach her, she cannot truly empathize with you in that. She cannot feel exactly -- to the nitty-grittiest bit -- what that effort meant to you. What that effort looked like in the context of what God has been doing in you throughout your life. She cannot celebrate that inner victory with you as only HE can.
So you need to stop hoping for and expecting the other person to enter into your joys and pains to the depth and breadth and width and height that He can. Especially if she barely knows you.
What each person needs is a cadre of close, trusted family members and friends who will celebrate these intrapersonal victories and encourage you when you are about to face what you used to paralyze yourself in the face of.
And then... know that when a woman chooses to enter into your life at that beginning stage... and then get to know you better... and then stick around... and chooses to try to enter into your joys and pains as much as she humanly can (and getting to know you better and being around you more will help her be able to do this, to offer you this relational strength that women were designed to provide)....
that you have been entrusted by God with an exquisite treasure. (And you will be the treasure God has entrusted her with!  )
He is the One who supernatually works through human relationships to bring about a closeness we could never have with one another without the Holy Spirit changing us from the inside out.
When you choose your wife and marry her, you will still have to seek God about her inner being --- He is the glue. It is a work of His grace. And He can (and will) show you more and more about her.... how to love her, the best ways to help her grow in Christlikeness, how to reflect Christ to her, how to lead her and your children. And He is such a creative Teacher and Worker --- He'll use all sorts of things in your marriage.
Take heart! You do have time. And yet, you are not sitting on your laurels of being young. You are seeking to truly be a man of God. I sense that you have been and continue to ponder and digest the wise counsel you seek. It is a wonderful thing that not only are you willing to receive wise counsel but that you take a step further and actually pursue it, ask for it. This is one way you are preparing yourself to be a husband and the spiritual leader of your household.
Press on, brother!!!
_____________________________
"We're not odd, we're just over-expressive."—Helen in Howard's End
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 7:54:44 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3264
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quote:
I'm never going to say that a girl absolutely must say yes to any guy who asks her out. I'm just saying (from a guy's perspective, of course) it's advisable to do it only when she can think of a very good reason, as other people have wisely stated here. But feel free to correct me if I have missed something. Thanks for your time, guys! I'll get more detailed in responses soon enough
For a lot of people, there has to be an incredible amount of physical attraction that's present between two people before they agree to date. I'm one of those people who would not date someone unless I feel a strong chemistry and spark without which, no relationship of mine would evolve into anything more than friendship (which is actually not a bad thing). THat's me. I mean, it's an initial date. What else would I base my decision on? Without chemistry, he could be the nicest, smartest, richest, most goodlooking, most godly man in the world, I won't date him . This is what would make me want to get to know a guy from a romantic perspective. Again, I'm not saying that I'll only date someone attractive, but what I'm saying is that I'll only date someone I'm attracted to. And no amount of new information about a person's personality, character, demeanor, etc, would change that.
I'm sure that there's people who feel the same way as I do. It's nothing personal. Attraction is there to streamline our search process for a mate. I've said it before. Dating is is hard enough with two people who are deeply attracted to each other. But can you imagine what dating would be like without it. That would make for a really, really, long night.
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Wishing for a Steelers/Eagles superbowl.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 8:09:18 PM
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FunBetty
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Again, I'm not saying that I'll only date someone attractive, but what I'm saying is that I'll only date someone I'm attracted to. And no amount of new information about a person's personality, character, demeanor, etc, would change that.
I'm sure that there's people who feel the same way as I do. It's nothing personal. Attraction is there to streamline our search process for a mate. I've said it before. Dating is is hard enough with two people who are deeply attracted to each other. But can you imagine what dating would be like without it. That would make for a really, really, long night.
I agree. I tried to give guys chance before that I was not attracted to, because they were (all qualities listed above). It failed. I could not bring myself to be attracted to them. (I honestly tried). At one point I decided that I deserved someone who would be as attracted to me as I was to him. Who PH might find attractive, I may not. Some people like Johnny Depp, I prefer Orlando Bloom.
All to say is I will not accept a date from anyone whom I do not find attractive. And my current "crush"-- yep, I find him devastatingly handsome (amongst his other qualities).
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Fun Betty's Therapy Centre and Cheesecake and Cookie Shoppe
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 9:33:58 PM
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Trusting.in.Him
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I have a few tidbits to add!
1. To say that it's not fair for men to be the ones rejected, is saying that it's not fair that men have to do the asking out. By culture, (AND I think, by the way God wired us) men possess that role. As long as that is the reality, they will be the ones who generally get rejected. Both genders have their pros and cons, that's one of them. And don't think that girls never feel the pain of rejection, even if they've never asked a guy out before...because they DO!
2. I would NEVER tell a girl that she has any sort of obligation to go out with a guy for any reason. I think quite a few people may disagree with that sentiment, but there is no wisdom in going out with a guy just to keep from hurting his feelings. This is a part of life that cannot be avoided -- sometimes, when you are interested in someone, they just plain don't feel the same way. And that goes for both guys AND girls. Going on a date out of politeness won't change that. I'm not saying it's wrong to give someone a chance...you never know what God's going to do. But romance is something that BOTH people have to be invested in...and if you're not interested, you're not interested. I think a lot of people have already brought up this point...would you WANT someone to date you if they really weren't attracted to you? Like I said, if you have no problem going on one date just to give it a try, that's great...but if you don't want to do it, DON'T! OP, you said that when a girl is deciding whether or not to date someone, she askes herself all sort of questions that seem to be self-focused (to paraphrase what you said) but you HAVE to be true to your own convictions if you want to decide if a person is right for you. Prince Charming might ask you out, but if you strongly feel that he's not right for you, DON'T DO IT!!
3. The 'just friends' line is something I feel is unavoidable. I know it's so overused and fake that it seems like it's more excruciating than "I don't want to date you" but honestly, at the root of its origin lies the fact that most girls are flattered that you want to spend time getting to know them and really don't want to hurt your feelings. I can picture some people rolling their eyes at that, but let me tell you -- it's TRUE. I agree that it's not the best line to use, but sometimes it IS true...she really does want to be friends! Of course, though, that doesn't lessen the pain of rejection...there's really no way to get around this though. Sometimes it's just not going to work out, and you're going to get your feelings hurt. But that's how it goes. :/
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 9:42:17 PM
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song
Posts: 304
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Southern Florida
Status: online
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There's been some really good posts so far!
I think it's really important to remember that people have choice! You don't want to take away someone's choice to say no just so you can feel better about yourself. If you don't know her well enough to know if she might be attracted to you then spend time together as friends or with groups of friends. I think it's weird to randomly ask someone out you don't know anyways!
And on another note, I feel rejected every moment of every day because no one has ever asked me out. So no, I haven't asked the men that I liked whether they would date me or not, but they also haven't ever asked me. Which is just as much rejection, or maybe even worse because they didn't even give me a chance.
Anyway you put it, relationships are hard. But if we remember that we already have the most important and fulfilling relationship already (with our Heavenly Father, and lover, as he is portrayed many places in the Bible), and it's never going away, we can make it through all the heart breaks in life.
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you are beautiful my sweet sweet song...
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 10:05:24 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8015
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
For a lot of people, there has to be an incredible amount of physical attraction that's present between two people before they agree to date. I'm one of those people who would not date someone unless I feel a strong chemistry and spark without which, no relationship of mine would evolve into anything more than friendship (which is actually not a bad thing). THat's me. I mean, it's an initial date. What else would I base my decision on? Without chemistry, he could be the nicest, smartest, richest, most goodlooking, most godly man in the world, I won't date him .
My ears were burning. 
quote:
This is what would make me want to get to know a guy from a romantic perspective. Again, I'm not saying that I'll only date someone attractive, but what I'm saying is that I'll only date someone I'm attracted to. And no amount of new information about a person's personality, character, demeanor, etc, would change that.
Exactly. If there's no spark, there's no spark. The problem arises when sometimes there is a huge spark but still no connection is really made.
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 10:11:26 PM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 3264
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quote:
Exactly. If there's no spark, there's no spark. The problem arises when sometimes there is a huge spark but still no connection is really made.
I got this from Wikipedia. This could be your problem. Spark plugs usually require voltage in excess of 20,000 volts to 'fire' properly.
NOTE: Help! I think JohnO's sense of humor is contagious! LOL. Save me!!!!!!!!!!
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Wishing for a Steelers/Eagles superbowl.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 10:18:01 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8015
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
NOTE: Help! I think JohnO's sense of humor is contagious! LOL. Save me!!!!!!!!!!
MWAHAHAHAHA Resistance is futile!
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Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/23/2008 1:11:09 AM
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Raptorman
Posts: 112
Joined: 9/21/2005
From: Colorado
Status: offline
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Thanks for inquiring about the definition, Elena.
I guess "inconvenient" would, at least to me, have this rough definition: the guy is someone who the woman has never before considered dating, and she feels rushed/awkward/panicked if he asks her out on a date, so in a kneejerk reaction, she turns him down. She doesn't honestly and objectively consider the option of a date, and just goes with her first instinct. Hopefully that clears it up a little.
I have told you before about a girl I asked out, and her reasons for rejecting even the prospect of one test-date sounded like panicked excuses. I asked for one date, and she brought up her striving for a Master's Degree and not wanting to get married until around 25-26 years of age.
Master's Degrees and relationships in your late teens/early twenties are not mutually exclusive, even in today's culture, where formal education is idolized even among many Christians.
And seriously, if a guy asks you out, why bring up marriage? I didn't get on one knee and show a diamond ring. Not even a cubic zirconium ring.  At that point, I just wanted us to give each other a chance for a relationship by spending a couple of hours together at Starbucks, and nothing else.
I'll be happy to address the other points you bring up soon, when I have enough time to address them. Thanks again!
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"Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - G.K. Chesterton
"If we valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." - J.R.R. Tolkien
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/23/2008 8:34:11 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8638
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
Status: online
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Again...I'm the problem child. I don't have to be attracted to a man to date him. IMO looks fade, and no one looks the same forever. I have dated (and even married) men I wasn't physically attracted to but their character and personality outshined the looks.
I'm also not about the spark. I don't see the spark until I've gotten to know someone, spent time with him...IMO that spark is merely infatuation and I don't want to base my relationship on that. I want it to be stronger.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/23/2008 1:56:42 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 2199
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: U.N.C.L.E.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Skrey...were you at H&J's when J and I were discussing a man asking permission to kiss a woman? J and I were talking about scenarios where we were both asked (at different times of course) if a man could kiss us. We both found it to be a HUGE turn off. The guys that were talking with us were quite surprised that we felt that way until we explained why.
We weren't necessarily asked advice about it, but men listened when we talked. You know what I mean?
And if you want an honest opinion...I'd be glad to help you there.
No, I don't believe I was, but I wish I had been!
So, what was the why?
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-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/23/2008 2:02:06 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 2199
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: U.N.C.L.E.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Elena1030
quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
on the date.....but what if she has a different dating style? Perhaps she is like johnno and doesn't want a date that she knows wouldn't go anywhere....or maybe she is like someone else who will date anyone and everyone....or maybe she is a little in between.
Then, she should be honest about her reasons. "I'm looking for a husband rather than a date. I don't see you as a possibility to be my husband, but I see these nice qualities in you:_______ You'll make someone a good husband, but you're not right for me."
Sure, there may be some men who think you're lying, but isn't it better to be open and honest and thought a liar than to withhold information that might, just might, make a guy understand that it really isn't him but you that is the reason for the no?
But if a man is "dead-set" on winning this woman's admiration and affection --- if he has invested his emotions and hopes way too quickly and way too early and way too strongly --- then likely he will be loathe to listen to rational, logical reasons for why this woman rejects him as a suitor.
You're right that such a man will be loath to listen to the reasons, but as you say of women's reasons, that's not every man.
Such a man shows a disrespect for the woman that makes him unsuitable for any romantic relationship.
You're right; all the whys and wherefors are not necessary, but some honest indication is helpful to the guys who respect a woman.
Everyone should be teachable and humble.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/23/2008 2:05:06 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 2199
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: U.N.C.L.E.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iwillfearnoevil
quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
I don't think we are. I mean, that's been mentioned a lot, but the advice of letting a guy down gently was "to a girl if she is asked out by a guy she isn't romantically attracted to", which sounds to me like simply no fireworks when you see him.
well then i disagree with OP's premise as i think the hypothesis is flawed ... i usually read that women (AND MEN) should still consider a date even if the sparks aren't flying ... boundless is filled with such articles for example ...
Well, on that score, I think there is merit. Our society puts WAAAAY too much emphasis on the 'necessity' of instant chemistry/sparks.
"Sometimes, love comes softly."
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/23/2008 2:12:12 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 2199
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: U.N.C.L.E.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Again...I'm the problem child. I don't have to be attracted to a man to date him. IMO looks fade, and no one looks the same forever. I have dated (and even married) men I wasn't physically attracted to but their character and personality outshined the looks.
I'm also not about the spark. I don't see the spark until I've gotten to know someone, spent time with him...IMO that spark is merely infatuation and I don't want to base my relationship on that. I want it to be stronger.
Amen, sister!
_____________________________
-- Skreyola
http://skreyola.livejournal.com/
Linux is a multiuser, modular, peer-reviewed, free operating system. Therefore, it tends to be stable, secure, and reliable.
Open Source is good stewardship!
I run Debian Linux (http://www.debian.org/)
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