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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/24/2008 8:26:31 PM
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backrowbaptist
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I was teaching high school when Hostel came out. A lot of my teenage students had seen it, many more than once. They talked about the torture scenes and thought they were cool. They were very de-sensitized to it, and they certainly weren't seeing it multiple times for the plot or the story. It was because they were titilated by the torture scenes. It fits with the death-metal and gothic culture they are immersed in. I just wonder what kind of sadistic garbage their kids will be watching years from now. I then saw a top 100 horror film list on MTV that rated it the best ever. The guy who produced it said he got the idea from a story he heard about someplace in Thailand where you can pay $10,000 dollars to go to some hidden place and kill a person. That gave him the idea for the movie. It's just more evidence of the decline of culture and standards in society.
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Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 2:29:46 AM
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everythingat
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The death metal and gothic culture they are immersed in? Really? Since when were the goths evil?
MTV? Yeah...that's a reliable source. MTV is fueled by teenagers, teenagers change their minds at least a few times a year. A movie could come out, they will be practically obsessed with it...then a few months later, they hate it.
And for the record...there have been much worse movies than Hostel released decades ago.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 3:11:31 PM
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iluvatar
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
But HOSTEL was just a story that shouldn't have been written in the first place.
Why not? I personally thought it was quite an original twist on the standard horror film? Did you even see the movie?
I saw it. These gore films are about the only sort of horror/suspense films that do get any sort of reaction from me and I didn't think that Hostel was worth the 30 seconds it took me to find the torrent and download it.
I've seen the first three Saw movies, and not that those are any paragon of cinematic genious, at least they started out mildly interesting.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
And, obviously, some people hold to the opinion that movies whose entire draw is nothing but prolonged graphic violence are solid quality entertainment.
I hate to burst your stereotyping, but the violence in HOSTEL was not the "entire draw" of the film for me. I was in fact quite taken with the story, characters, etc, and involved in that far beyond the graphic scenes....
Oh come on. For all the ire you've thrown at the guys who made Fireproof for their lousy filmmaking, you're gonna tell us that you were engaged by the characters and story of Hostel?
Open credits.
Horny college kids get lured into torture ring by promise of free sex.
One escapes and gets revenge on some of the bad guys.
Close credits.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 5:09:13 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
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quote:
For all the ire you've thrown at the guys who made Fireproof for their lousy filmmaking, you're gonna tell us that you were engaged by the characters and story of Hostel?
Well, horror films are not known for their depth in many cases, and the story of HOSTEL was a simple one, but IMO quite original. And yes, HOSTEL was a better made film than the Sherwood dreck by light years....
But again, I just find it amusing, when a comedy does what a comedy is suppoed to do, make you laugh, it's lauded as a success. When a drama does what it is supposed to do, tug at your heart, then it's a success. But when a horror film does what it is supposed to do, then everybody gets their knickers in a twist.
Love or hate movies like HOSTEL or SAW, you can't tell me that you were not aware that they would be violent, graphically violent films from the trailers alone. So why were you so surprised that the movie delivered exactly what it promised?
< Message edited by tafkam -- 10/25/2008 5:17:00 PM >
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 6:00:30 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
But again, I just find it amusing, when a comedy does what a comedy is suppoed to do, make you laugh, it's lauded as a success. When a drama does what it is supposed to do, tug at your heart, then it's a success. But when a horror film does what it is supposed to do, then everybody gets their knickers in a twist.
People have a problem with what it's supposed to do. I imagine if telling jokes was considered sinful, people would get worked up over comedies, too.
quote:
Love or hate movies like HOSTEL or SAW, you can't tell me that you were not aware that they would be violent, graphically violent films from the trailers alone. So why were you so surprised that the movie delivered exactly what it promised?
I realize that this is more rhetorical and directed at the global 'you,' but for me - I wasn't surprised. That's why I watched them in the first place. I still cringe when I think of the girl getting thrown into the pit full of needles in Saw 2.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 6:03:07 PM
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tafkam
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I actually haven't seen any of the SAW films, which is weird, cause they should be right down my slightly warped alley! 
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 6:07:37 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
Personally I found the beating scenes in PASSION OF THE CHRIST to be every bit as disturbing as what was seen in HOSTEL. But the beating was shown graphically to prove a point...why then is violence in horror movies viewed differently?
Even though I felt Mel Gibson intentionally hyped the violence level in "Christ," it was in a historical context. Flicks like "Saw" (the first of which, I thought was very clever) and "Hostel" (which I have not seen) are more for shock-porn entertainment value.
There's also a Japanese film similar to these called "Audition" which I'm told is very graphic.
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In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 6:11:46 PM
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todd_t
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quote:
or better yet, TEXAS CHAINSAW, the great grandfather of films like HOSTEL...
I disagree.
There's a big difference between flicks like "Hostel" (which are all about a visual payoff), and "Chainsaw" which features most of its violence off-screen to allow the viewer's imagination to run wild, and fill in the blanks.
Now that's real horror.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 6:17:27 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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oh yeah there are subcategories of horror movie.. Comast even has them divided into about 8 categories.
i watched a real scary movie today to get my mind off other things, and it worked. it was about a girl who ties up a guy and threatens to castrate him. She did not really do it, but all the suspense and what she did to trick him had a total effect of making my eyes bug out and my mouth gape open. they did not show it being done, but all the effex and suspense was scary enough. a movie is excellent when they get you to believe something is happening and you can almost feel thier pain, but its not really happening. turns out, she put a binder clip on him. but you would have thought she cut him for real.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 8:05:50 PM
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everythingat
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IMA_CHRISTIAN, you're talking about Hard Candy. I love that movie. One of the most suspenseful films made in this decade. If you like suspense, 13 Tzameti is the only way to go. It might be a little more suspenseful than Hard Candy. It's foreign though. But wow...crazy. And that leads me to...
tafkam, have you seen Frontiere(s) or Inside yet? They're both French, and I know they're out on DVD in the States now. I've only seen imports, which were subtitled. Not sure if they dubbed them for release here, I hate dubs anyway. You would probably love both.
Frontiere(s) is about a group of thieves who escape from a riot and stay the night in a hotel ran by neo-Nazis. You can guess what happens from there...
Inside is about a woman who is nine months pregnant. On the night the baby is due, a mysterious woman shows up determined to...perform a Caesarean whether she wants it or not.
< Message edited by everythingat -- 10/25/2008 8:15:35 PM >
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 8:25:32 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
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quote:
ORIGINAL: everythingat
IMA_CHRISTIAN, you're talking about Hard Candy. I love that movie. One of the most suspenseful films made in this decade. If you like suspense, 13 Tzameti is the only way to go. It might be a little more suspenseful than Hard Candy. It's foreign though. But wow...crazy. And that leads me to...
tafkam, have you seen Frontiere(s) or Inside yet? They're both French, and I know they're out on DVD in the States now. I've only seen imports, which were subtitled. Not sure if they dubbed them for release here, I hate dubs anyway. You would probably love both.
Frontiere(s) is about a group of thieves who escape from a riot and stay the night in a hotel ran by neo-Nazis. You can guess what happens from there...
Inside is about a woman who is nine months pregnant. On the night the baby is due, a mysterious woman shows up determined to...perform a Caesarean whether she wants it or not.
yes thats the one! its on Comcast this month. The suspense in that movie was excellent! And you did not see what she was doing, but it was done excellently where you really felt like he was getting that done! and then when she ummm took his parts out and into the garbage disposal and you saw the pain on his face.. wow excellent acting.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/25/2008 11:09:10 PM
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Death_Venom
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Another good movie that follows the Hostel "theme" is Turistas........Pretty good movie........Not too bad all around.......
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/27/2008 9:07:16 AM
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edlove50
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Horror movies these days have no entertaining value. I agree with the previous writer that the horror/violence distracts from the story line. As far as Hitchcock goes, he wasn't necessarily a master at filmaking, but he knew how to make a good movie and keep you on the edge of your seat. Give me a good old fashioned sci fi movie anyday that doesn't have excessive gore and violence in it.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/27/2008 10:50:26 AM
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Coffee_Drinker
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I don't know what purpose horror movies serve. Personally, I don't get it! Watching someone get "sliced & diced" for entertainment value so the movie makers can make big bucks because they can cash in on what sells.
My BIL rented Hostel. It was pretty gruesome. It reminded me as to why I don't watch these cheap flicks. Maybe were are supposed to become desensitized to horror.
I think life has enough drama. Read the newspaper and surf some of the major news networks if you want horror. Or, better yet, read some "end time" books. You'll get all the horror you want from them.
Don't get me wrong... I'm not going to judge anyone for their taste in entertainment. It's "your" entertainment. I just think if you want "horro" you might as well educate yourself in the process.
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Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/27/2008 12:05:39 PM
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stateofgrace
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I think there are some horror movies these days that are entertaining and don't necessarily have a lot of gore. They are few and far between, it seems. Although I think that maybe...maybe...the worst of them, the "torture porn" are fading a little in popularity?
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/28/2008 5:57:37 AM
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Giggles56
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IMO, I would rather see a movie that suggests something will happen, that scares me. It's the anticipation and suspense I enjoy. To watch a gory film, you know someone is going to be tortured so it's no surprise. Those type of movies just gross me out and make me sick.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/28/2008 11:48:14 AM
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rnershigh
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I have no problem with any type of horror. I love to watch horror movies. Horror seems to , by and large, delve into taboo areas of humanity (you know, the worst and darkest), but one thing I've noticed about horror movies. There is always the "good" guy ,the main character (hero or heroine or group) trying to save themselves or their loved ones from the big bad (insert bad guy here). Whether it's a monster, a horrible situation, a realistic serial killer, etc. They all have one thing in common: survival (and of course fear).
What would a person or group of people do to survive against the odds? What are they willing to do to achieve survival? Are they willing to sacrifice themselves? Be selfish and save themselves? Are they willing to kill? How will they react or respond in a horror straight from your worst nightmares?
While not all horror movies are so clearly drawn with the good vs. evil, I have noticed that the "good guys" are always trying to win, save the day or save people from the "evil" in the movie, whatever that bad thing is.
I think that's the draw of horror movies, that theme of good vs. evil, and of course not all horror movies are so clearly drawn with who is the good guys and who are the bad guys.
Also, not all horror movies end on a happily ever after note. In fact, a lot of horror will end with a twist, an irony, or it'll end with a question on whether the good guys really did win. It's like life, nothing is certain, and you won't be guaranteed a happily ever after.
I can't exactly explain why horror can be controversial. I suppose it's like I said, a lot of horror will take an in-depth look into controversial subjects or issues that make people uncomfortable.
_____________________________
O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 10/30/2008 3:57:35 PM
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JoeyWest
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they are great movies. i think what is scary about hostel and turistas and prolly saw as well is, they can actually be happenoing even as this is argued.
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FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
If today was your last day
and tomorrow was too late
Could you say goodbye to yesterday?
Would you live each moment like your last? "Nickelback"
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 11/4/2008 1:29:33 PM
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teaspoon61
Posts: 623
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quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
I was teaching high school when Hostel came out. A lot of my teenage students had seen it, many more than once. They talked about the torture scenes and thought they were cool. They were very de-sensitized to it, and they certainly weren't seeing it multiple times for the plot or the story. It was because they were titilated by the torture scenes. It fits with the death-metal and gothic culture they are immersed in. I just wonder what kind of sadistic garbage their kids will be watching years from now. I then saw a top 100 horror film list on MTV that rated it the best ever. The guy who produced it said he got the idea from a story he heard about someplace in Thailand where you can pay $10,000 dollars to go to some hidden place and kill a person. That gave him the idea for the movie. It's just more evidence of the decline of culture and standards in society.
I say, I say . . . I have to agree with you on this point. . . watching these types of movies over and over again de-sensitizes some people.
Back to the OP
quote:
My question: don't all horror movies do this to a degree? They all portray a level of violence as part of their entertainment value. And as such, what's the problem?
What are other views on the more extreme horor film offerings?
The problem is how graphic these torture depictions are. There are some people who watch these acts of horriffic violence so much . . .they eventually get to the point to where they need more severe graphic depicitions (on screen) to be horrified. As seen in the escellation of these types of movies. It's as if those who make them keep trying to outdo the previous movie. I have not personally seen these movies . . (Just reading the descriptions of them is enough!) . . . because I do not care to have thise type of material in my house. Some nights I can barely tollerate some of the more twisted episodes of CSI! There was one episode where someone was experimenting on humans just like Joseph Mengela . . . even though it wasn't graphic . . . I had soooooo much trouble sleeping that night!
I would say that of that of the first Alien movie, it was one of the scariest movies I've ever seen. It was the suspense of not knowing where the creature was and that when it did appear you never fully saw it and that made it more scary. Also as a film they did a few scenes where you thought the creature was coming out, it turned out to be the cat, then as soon as you were catcing your breath, BANG! here comes the Alien. It didn't show the creature killing it's victims. . . but we know that it did.
Also a few years back the big movie hit was The Blair Witch Project. . . I didn't see it . . . but I remeber all the hype about it. From what people who saw it were talking about the film was how scary it was even there wasn't any blood & you never actually saw anyone die.
Point being . . . you can be scared . . . without being grossed out.
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<--- Lucky
Bloom where you are planted! 
We cannot control the outcome of our prayers, but in faith we can expect great things.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 11/4/2008 8:09:52 PM
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alias007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
And, obviously, some people hold to the opinion that movies whose entire draw is nothing but prolonged graphic violence are solid quality entertainment.
I hate to burst your stereotyping, but the violence in HOSTEL was not the "entire draw" of the film for me. I was in fact quite taken with the story, characters, etc, and involved in that far beyond the graphic scenes....
Oh come on. For all the ire you've thrown at the guys who made Fireproof for their lousy filmmaking, you're gonna tell us that you were engaged by the characters and story of Hostel?
Open credits.
Horny college kids get lured into torture ring by promise of free sex.
One escapes and gets revenge on some of the bad guys.
Close credits.
-Dan.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught the irony.
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 11/4/2008 9:58:07 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
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quote:
I'm glad I'm not the only one who caught the irony.
No irony at all, the makers of HOSTEL had some measure of filmmaking talent, the makers of FACING THE GIANTS were agenda driven hacks with cameras.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 11/5/2008 3:58:22 PM
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JoeyWest
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I have to ask though. porn last time i checked was sexual related. I dont watch it just is known porn=sex. ok so they promised sex. college kids will go for that. but it showed one overcoming the evil. now the end of hostel 2 was painful to watch.
but it isnt even the torture type of sex in this. murder in the porn industry is called a snuff film. the movie 8mm with nicholas cage and juaquin however spell it phoenix was about a snuff film. they weren't videotaping to sell. least dont remember it being mentioned. they were selling opportunity to commit murder sadistically.
I have not seen porn in that at all. so the movie showed two girls kissing. lotta plain movies have stooped to that lvl
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
If today was your last day
and tomorrow was too late
Could you say goodbye to yesterday?
Would you live each moment like your last? "Nickelback"
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 11/9/2008 4:41:50 AM
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catscreatedbygod
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i believe that all horror movies are santanic. it says in the bible that we are to think on pure and lovely things and horror certainly doesn't fit that catagory. i also think that it makes us think of murder as not so horrible, and that's going the way satan wants us to think because it's not how god views murder. why do you think god started capital punishment if he wasn't so dead set against killing some one? we are to have the mind of christ and looking at horror is certainly not having his mind. 
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 11/9/2008 2:10:46 PM
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tafkam
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So why then is the Bible replete with images that make most horror films look tame?
If you apply this argument to horror films, you must also apply it to every other genre, including dramas, comedies, etc, because nearly all of them have as their basic poit of conflict somebody doing something wrong, (i.e. sinful).
quote:
we are to have the mind of christ and looking at horror is certainly not having his mind.
I'll thank you not to speak for me, if you don't mind. I'm a horror film aficianado who is also in full time ministry. I'm also mature enough that I can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, and an occasional horror flick does not dictate who I am or what I do in my everyday life.
I've said it in other threads, but I believe dreck such as FACING THE GIANTS is far more unhealthy than a horror flick. Horror flicks depict the classic struggle of good vs evil. Films like FTG portray a pie-in-the-sky- God-as-the-genie-in-the-bottle theology that is simply not accurate at all...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Horror Movies - Torture Porn? - 11/9/2008 3:02:13 PM
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rnershigh
Posts: 869
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: somewhere over the rainbow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
So why then is the Bible replete with images that make most horror films look tame?
If you apply this argument to horror films, you must also apply it to every other genre, including dramas, comedies, etc, because nearly all of them have as their basic poit of conflict somebody doing something wrong, (i.e. sinful).
quote:
we are to have the mind of christ and looking at horror is certainly not having his mind.
I'll thank you not to speak for me, if you don't mind. I'm a horror film aficianado who is also in full time ministry. I'm also mature enough that I can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, and an occasional horror flick does not dictate who I am or what I do in my everyday life.
I've said it in other threads, but I believe dreck such as FACING THE GIANTS is far more unhealthy than a horror flick. Horror flicks depict the classic struggle of good vs evil. Films like FTG portray a pie-in-the-sky- God-as-the-genie-in-the-bottle theology that is simply not accurate at all...
Great post, I particularly agree with your sentence I bolded. I am a horror fan, horror books and movies. I've read a lot of horror books and watched a lot of horror movies and I'd say you're absolutely correct. At the heart of many horror films is the struggle of good vs. evil. The good guys fighting it out with the baddies.
_____________________________
O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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