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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:26:48 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 What you say contridicts what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:16. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Just because you have not attained understanding from what Jesus told Peter to do when he had him cast his net, doesn't mean there isn't understanding to be gathered. It just means you have not gathered understanding from it. Excuse me, but something isn't scripture unless it is recorded (written down) in the Bible. Or do you define it as also including something not written down in the Bible that we can guess about?
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:27:58 PM
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armydude
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 quote:
THat's one. And there are actually a lot of examples of this. We have examples where Jesus is teaching to people, but we don't know what He's teaching about (such as when He was out in Peter's boat, and then told Peter to cast his nets over to the other side of the boat). Some of these things are just details in the Bible. It doesn't mean that they're not good or inspired, but they're simply there as details, and nothing more. As 1love1god1way put, we shouldn't have to read between the lines to get stuff out of the Scriptures. What you say contridicts what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:16. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Just because you have not attained understanding from what Jesus told Peter to do when he had him cast his net, doesn't mean there isn't understanding to be gathered. It just means you have not gathered understanding from it. There was understanding to be gathered. It was put there for a reason. But if what He was teaching was as important as the fact that He was teaching it, don't you think the gospel writers would have mentioned it? And isn't there something in the bible about adding to the scripture?
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May all of your troubles last no longer than your New Year's Resolutions!
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:28:54 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 What you say contridicts what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:16. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Just because you have not attained understanding from what Jesus told Peter to do when he had him cast his net, doesn't mean there isn't understanding to be gathered. It just means you have not gathered understanding from it. Excuse me, but something isn't scripture unless it is recorded (written down) in the Bible. Or do you define it as also including something not written down in the Bible that we can guess about? I'm not talking about what isn't written, I'm talking about what is. The event of Jesus writing in the dirt is written in scripture, therefore is profitable for the reasons Paul suggests. I am arguing AGAINST the notion that it is INSIGNIFICANT, not that my belief about it or what I extrapolate from the event is true.
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OSAS is the Gospel. (Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:29:09 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 so if we are going to speculate some answers, lets speculate some answers that are in line w/ His character :). I am pretty sure Jesus is cool with Superman and Batman. Maybe not the Punisher.. but I digress.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:30:54 PM
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armydude
Posts: 17249
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 What you say contridicts what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:16. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Just because you have not attained understanding from what Jesus told Peter to do when he had him cast his net, doesn't mean there isn't understanding to be gathered. It just means you have not gathered understanding from it. Excuse me, but something isn't scripture unless it is recorded (written down) in the Bible. Or do you define it as also including something not written down in the Bible that we can guess about? I'm not talking about what isn't written, I'm talking about what is. The event of Jesus writing in the dirt is written in scripture, therefore is profitable for the reasons Paul suggests. I am arguing AGAINST the notion that it is INSIGNIFICANT, not that my belief about it or what I extrapolate from the event is true. Jesus wrote in the dirt. That writing in the dirt did not make it into scripture. So I'm sure you have a point here, I'm just not sure what it is. I'm not intentionally being snarky. I'm honestly confused. Why is it so important to know what Jesus wrote in the dirt? And why not just ask Him?
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May all of your troubles last no longer than your New Year's Resolutions!
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:32:10 PM
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LoyalGypsy
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What did Jesus write in the dirt? He wrote these commandments 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?" 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. ……….But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger,( = for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God)= ……..as though He did not hear. 1 And God “spoke” all these words: and “wrote” on the ground with “His finger”… not Moses and said....... 2 "I am the Lord your God ….who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. ……….3 "You shall have no other gods before me. (=5 Moses, and the law, “commanded” ) 4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. = Moses and the Law 7 So when they continued asking Him, (Moses, in the law, commanded) He raised Himself up and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first." 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. (and again “wrote” on the ground with “His finger”…) ...the second time….saying 5 You shall not bow down to them (Moses and the Law)>>> or worship them; ………….for I, the Lord your God, “am a jealous God” >>, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers …….to the third and fourth generation……… of those who hate me, …………………9 Then those who heard it, being convicted “by their conscience”, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest = (the sin of the fathers )even to the last. =(to the third and fourth generation ) LG
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice ...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!" 300 The Movie
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:40:35 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 quote:
THat's one. And there are actually a lot of examples of this. We have examples where Jesus is teaching to people, but we don't know what He's teaching about (such as when He was out in Peter's boat, and then told Peter to cast his nets over to the other side of the boat). Some of these things are just details in the Bible. It doesn't mean that they're not good or inspired, but they're simply there as details, and nothing more. As 1love1god1way put, we shouldn't have to read between the lines to get stuff out of the Scriptures. What you say contridicts what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:16. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Just because you have not attained understanding from what Jesus told Peter to do when he had him cast his net, doesn't mean there isn't understanding to be gathered. It just means you have not gathered understanding from it. NO, it doesn't contradict what 2 Timothy 3:16. You are reading WAY too much into that verse.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:46:18 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
I am pretty sure Jesus is cool with Superman and Batman. Maybe not the Punisher.. but I digress. What about the X-Men?
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:47:33 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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I always took it as a "SERIOUS" moment when He wrote in the dirt... I'm not sure what He wrote, but I am curious as to why He chose to write at that moment...There are plenty of other situations where He could have chose to do that too. Maybe He wrote something to the effects of that He didn't condemn her or what have you. Guess we can ask Him in Heaven, you know?
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." ~ Romans 12:12
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:50:09 PM
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Conundrum
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quote:
What did Jesus write in the dirt? Many speculate (myself included) the sins of the men who had gathered stones to stone the woman accused of adultery. We don't know with 100% certainty, but I found this interesting. Jeremiah 17:13 says "Hope of Israel, Adonai! All who abandon you will be ashamed, those who leave you will be inscribed in the dust, because they have abandoned Adonai, the source of living water." quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart quote:
You said read between the lines, not me. You're the one who thinks Jesus was drawing a Batman logo. Dude, you're the one ASKING him to read between the lines. No, I'm not. I'm asking to read what is there, and understand. But if that was a misunderstanding I will say this. If you think that one can exhaust God's Word simply by reading is once, such is often not the case. This is why we can study our entire lives and never exhaust God's Word. Is it the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search it out. In the OP you ask us to speculate on what Jesus wrote in the dirt. In post 26, you say you are NOT asking us to speculate on what Jesus wrote in the dirt. So which is it?
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:57:03 PM
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TorchHeart
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I'll go back again to this.... There might be some significance to the fact that Jesus was writing in the dirt. If so, what it shows us, I will admit that I do not know (but I can give a couple of serious examples). The ACT itself might have some significance other than just being a simple detail, and that' I can understand (though I still hold that it might very well be just a detail in a story). However, what He wrote, in my book, was of no significance. For all we know, it could've been a grocery list, a recanting of the 10 Commandments, a picture of a horse, or just some scribbling while He waited for instructions on how to respond from God. To speculate on it being serious and meaningful is pointless, as if it was, I'm sure at least one of the four Gospel authors would've made some note about what specifically was drawn or written.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:58:12 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 What you say contridicts what Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 3:16. "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" Just because you have not attained understanding from what Jesus told Peter to do when he had him cast his net, doesn't mean there isn't understanding to be gathered. It just means you have not gathered understanding from it. Excuse me, but something isn't scripture unless it is recorded (written down) in the Bible. Or do you define it as also including something not written down in the Bible that we can guess about? I'm not talking about what isn't written, I'm talking about what is. The event of Jesus writing in the dirt is written in scripture, therefore is profitable for the reasons Paul suggests. I am arguing AGAINST the notion that it is INSIGNIFICANT, not that my belief about it or what I extrapolate from the event is true. Jesus wrote in the dirt. That writing in the dirt did not make it into scripture. So I'm sure you have a point here, I'm just not sure what it is. I'm not intentionally being snarky. I'm honestly confused. Why is it so important to know what Jesus wrote in the dirt? And why not just ask Him? Well, you're not alone in the confusion. I think I was confused too. Part of the confusion may be my own doing. My point is this: There isn't one single thing that is written in scripture that is insignificant. Not Jesus writting in the dust, not Jesus telling Peter to cast a net, or any other thing which *appears* insignificant at first glance. There is a different between random mindless speculation, and God focused, good speculation. Obviously, the former is reasonable for us to be doing. The reason we are told Jesus wrote in the dirt is for a good reason. We may not know what that reason is, but there is good reason for it and I wanted to discuss what those reasons might be. There is something to be gained from it--it was not useless information. I'm not saying what I extrapolate from the event is true, and that's not what I'm arguing. I am only arguing that the event itself is significant--it is not pointless. I'm sorry, but Jesus breaking for a moment to play pictionary in the dirt or draw a Batman logo is lame. Honestly, it is lame, and goes nowhere good. That is an irreverent slam to character and nature of God Himself. If that was a mistake, so be it. A person who says such things should recognize that as such and repent from it. I am arguing against the notion that God tells us things that are fruitless, or without cause. Like Paul told us in what we also consider scripture, ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine. ALL in the Greek means ALL and that's ALL that it means. :) Am I so wrong for being agitated by someone saying Jesus drew Batman logo's in the dirt? Perhaps my spirit is just more sensitive to irreverence, but it bothers me.
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OSAS is the Gospel. (Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 4:59:52 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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Yes, that is true. Maybe not of significance to us now, but I have to be convinced that it was of significance to them then! Just have to! It would be silly of Jesus to write something, have it mentioned in the Bible that He wrote it, and then it just be some nonsense. That wouldn't be the case, I don't think...
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." ~ Romans 12:12
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 5:03:40 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conundrum quote:
What did Jesus write in the dirt? Many speculate (myself included) the sins of the men who had gathered stones to stone the woman accused of adultery. We don't know with 100% certainty, but I found this interesting. Jeremiah 17:13 says "Hope of Israel, Adonai! All who abandon you will be ashamed, those who leave you will be inscribed in the dust, because they have abandoned Adonai, the source of living water." quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02 quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart quote:
You said read between the lines, not me. You're the one who thinks Jesus was drawing a Batman logo. Dude, you're the one ASKING him to read between the lines. No, I'm not. I'm asking to read what is there, and understand. But if that was a misunderstanding I will say this. If you think that one can exhaust God's Word simply by reading is once, such is often not the case. This is why we can study our entire lives and never exhaust God's Word. Is it the glory of God to conceal a matter, and the honor of kings to search it out. In the OP you ask us to speculate on what Jesus wrote in the dirt. In post 26, you say you are NOT asking us to speculate on what Jesus wrote in the dirt. So which is it? quote:
read between the lines. In #26 I said said I wasn't asking to read between the lines--which I didn't. That isn't what I said. Those were words put in my mouth. Reading between the lines, to me, would mean there is something mystical between the lines of scripture... which there isn't. God's Word interprets God's Word. I never said to "read between the lines."
< Message edited by d4nnyb0y02 -- 10/22/2008 5:09:45 PM >
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OSAS is the Gospel. (Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 5:04:59 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PopsiLufsJesus Yes, that is true. Maybe not of significance to us now, but I have to be convinced that it was of significance to them then! Just have to! It would be silly of Jesus to write something, have it mentioned in the Bible that He wrote it, and then it just be some nonsense. That wouldn't be the case, I don't think... Amen. And, there is a difference between vain mindless speculation and God focused speculation that is based on what we know of His character.
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OSAS is the Gospel. (Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 5:34:08 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 910
Joined: 2/13/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Conundrum quote:
For all we know, it could've been a grocery list, a recanting of the 10 Commandments, a picture of a horse, I hope you meant a reCOUNTing of the 10 Commandments... I personally don't think it was him waiting or pondering how to answer. He knew men's hearts; he probably knew how to answer right away because he probably knew the trap before they even set it. I agree. For the case of speculation which was asked for by the OP, I would say I agree with Earthless's speculation from post 3, to me it makes the most sense quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless Pure speculation... Many have said that He was writing out the names & sins of those the accusers were having sexual affairs with. In other words... they themselves were guilty of the same. I also have to agree with d4nnyb0y02 that nothing Jesus did which was written about was pointless. Jesus the living, breathing, walking word of God needs to think about what to say? I don't think so. If He was seeking guidance from the Father for how to handle the situation, maybe I would agree with that, but He knew what to say. I do doubt though that it was all the sins of all that were present, that would take days, weeks, months or years and a few football fields to write down. But it was recorded for a reason. Just like Him being at a wedding was recorded for a reason. It was the scene for His first miracle, and it showed He was trying to be a part of peoples lives, not just rule over them.
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Isaiah 41:10 "Fear not for I am with you, Do not be dismayed for I am your God, I will strengthen you and help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 5:56:07 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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Whenever I think of Jesus writing in the dirt I think of that scripture, perhaps it is in Psalm, I'm not really sure, but about how the lines have fallen about in pleasant places or something... I don't even know why it makes me think of that scripture, but oh well...
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." ~ Romans 12:12
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 6:20:49 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless Pure speculation... Many have said that He was writing out the names & sins of those the accusers were having sexual affairs with. In other words... they themselves were guilty of the same. The key suggestion to the 1st commandment in the story was that Moses commanded in the law that she should be stoned to death.....if they had said God had commanded Moses, but they did not say that, they placed Moses in the first person. SO those sins you mentioned that they themselves were guilty of… aren’t the same... but just as much a sin. ... They were convicted by the first commandment in which they were well versed in... Therefore their sin was no different than her sin... Instead of saying "it is written" He stooped down and wrote in the sand the 1st commandment ….then as the continued….placing Moses in the first person above what was written ......Jesus called them out said...let you who is without sin... cast the first stone. A better picture of what occured there... is seen here Matthew 7:1-6 1 "Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. 3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? LG
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice ...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!" 300 The Movie
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 6:36:55 PM
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Dan94
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You are not the only one who has pondered this scene over and over and through countless generations. I for one think it could have been the very name of the man she was caught in adultery with. Where was he? if she was caught in "the very act", where was the other sinner? Was he some high official? Was it You or Me? (spiritually speaking) The setting was in a very public place and Jesus was getting ready to teach the people in the temple courts. To dramatise the event the Pharisees and teachers of the law waited, hopefully to embarrass Jesus or discredit Him in front of the people He was about to teach. Remember the Pharisees hated Jesus for exposing their hypocrisy and eroding the power they had over the people. So they set a trap, was it coincidence they knew where this woman lived? They already knew this woman was doing this, but turned a blind eye until they could trap Jesus (how ridiculous is that?) and get Him to reject the mercy He preached and the law of Moses. Of course this is reading between the lines...right? But given the scene and all the other confrontations He had with the Pharisees, they were desperate for some kind of victory. The confrontation record was probably something like 24 losses and no wins for the Pharisees so they were in need of some face saving. WRONG! man did Jesus zap them..big time and sent the message countless generations would remember. Even Godless people remember "He who is without sin ...cast the first stone"! Jesus was bent down writing in the dirt, then stood up to look them, (and you and I) straight in the eye while putting an arrow straight through hardened hearts. Then He bent down again and continued to write until the message had it's desired effect. Then when He was all alone with the woman (and you and me). He gave the conclusion to the whole matter. He looked lovingly at the trembling woman, who moments ago thought her life was over. "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go and sin no more" (John 8:1-11) Did she look back at what He had written as she walked away? most likely not. Maybe her eyes were so full of tears at the amazing grace she had just received, the words were just a blur to her. We as Christians can relate to this woman a thousand times over, it should still tug at our hearts when we get set to judge...or do we need once again to have Jesus look us straight in the eye and say once again. What is that rock in your hand? what are you going to do with it? You know, maybe He was writing the names of all the people that were going to be convicted by that story in the Gospel of John...then again there probably wasn't enough dirt in all of Jerusalem for that. I think to get the eternal truth of the scriptures and apply it to ourselves and situations we face, that reading between the lines can be helpful as long as we keep the Spirit of the message in focus. A little imagination will not hurt then.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 6:39:27 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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Ya'll forgot the most interesting aspect of that story - Jesus was the ONLY one qualified to stone her - Let he that is WITHOUT SIN cast the first stone. but he did not stone her. He forgave her. did anyone else catch that what i caught?
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/22/2008 6:40:55 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 910
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan94 You are not the only one who has pondered this scene over and over and through countless generations. I for one think it could have been the very name of the man she was caught in adultery with. Where was he? if she was caught in "the very act", where was the other sinner? Was he some high official? Was it You or Me? (spiritually speaking) The setting was in a very public place and Jesus was getting ready to teach the people in the temple courts. To dramatise the event the Pharisees and teachers of the law waited, hopefully to embarrass Jesus or discredit Him in front of the people He was about to teach. Remember the Pharisees hated Jesus for exposing their hypocrisy and eroding the power they had over the people. So they set a trap, was it coincidence they knew where this woman lived? They already knew this woman was doing this, but turned a blind eye until they could trap Jesus (how ridiculous is that?) and get Him to reject the mercy He preached and the law of Moses. Of course this is reading between the lines...right? But given the scene and all the other confrontations He had with the Pharisees, they were desperate for some kind of victory. The confrontation record was probably something like 24 losses and no wins for the Pharisees so they were in need of some face saving. WRONG! man did Jesus zap them..big time and sent the message countless generations would remember. Even Godless people remember "He who is without sin ...cast the first stone"! Jesus was bent down writing in the dirt, then stood up to look them, (and you and I) straight in the eye while putting an arrow straight through hardened hearts. Then He bent down again and continued to write until the message had it's desired effect. Then when He was all alone with the woman (and you and me). He gave the conclusion to the whole matter. He looked lovingly at the trembling woman, who moments ago thought her life was over. "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go and sin no more" (John 8:1-11) Did she look back at what He had written as she walked away? most likely not. Maybe her eyes were so full of tears at the amazing grace she had just received, the words were just a blur to her. We as Christians can relate to this woman a thousand times over, it should still tug at our hearts when we get set to judge...or do we need once again to have Jesus look us straight in the eye and say once again. What is that rock in your hand? what are you going to do with it? You know, maybe He was writing the names of all the people that were going to be convicted by that story in the Gospel of John...then again there probably wasn't enough dirt in all of Jerusalem for that. I think to get the eternal truth of the scriptures and apply it to ourselves and situations we face, that reading between the lines can be helpful as long as we keep the Spirit of the message in focus. A little imagination will not hurt then. Good post and good point. It very well could have been the name of the man involved.
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Isaiah 41:10 "Fear not for I am with you, Do not be dismayed for I am your God, I will strengthen you and help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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