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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/23/2008 8:38:13 PM
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1love1God1way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KuKu
How about a fish?
Maybe he drew the first Jesus Fish.
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love.ben
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/23/2008 11:04:40 PM
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TorchHeart
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quote:
but, i would like to add this... Jesus wasn't stumped by this... He knew exactly what to say and do, I don't believe He needed time to think, or figure out a way to answer properly... Jesus and the Father are One, He didn't have to think of the right answer, He already knew it.
I would disagree with this. While Jesus and God are one, we do see instances in the Bible where Christ is turning to the Father for strength and support (such as when He is in the garden praying that He doesn't have to go through the crucifixion) or for God to work miracles through Him. He turns to the Father in prayer for a number of reasons, so it is feasable that Christ was looking for the Father to support and guide Him in dealing with this predicament.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 11:11:23 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theolotee
i guess, in my opinion, it all boils down to the question, "do you believe that every word in the bible is the inspired Word of God?" this story begins the 8th chapter of John. the author, John the apostle, thought this detail important enough to mention twice... and, in most english translations records it as "wrote on the ground". in the 28th verse of this chapter Jesus says, "I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. (emphasis mine)
if every word of the bible is God's Word, then we must conclude that God wanted it recorded for a reason. it must have some level of significance, there aren't any idle words in the scriptures and nothing is there for filler. :) i've read my favorite books, Hebrews and Romans too many times to count, yet i get something new every time i read them...
God's Word has too many dimensions for us to conclude that this was just an insignificant detail.... that's my two cents... :)
Amen
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 12:03:52 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1946
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
Deermousie,
Your reaction to my Batman joke made me choke on my sandwich.
Whoa! I'm sorry, Ben - didn't mean to do that to you! Next time you're in my neighborhood, I'll make you a nice sandwich with mayo. Cider, too, if it's fall.
quote:
ORIGINAL TorchHeartHe might have been submitting his fantasy baseball line-up for that afternoon, too.
I don't know who He had on it, but something tells me He was partial to the Padres and the Angels.
This gave me a belly laugh. How about them Saints? 
quote:
ORIGINAL Wintery
I read this from some scholarly person a while back and I'm sorry I can't give you a reference, but it went like this--Look at the law of jealousy in Numbers 5:11-31. Here's an excerpt:
Then the priest shall write these curses in a book and wash them off into the water of bitterness. And he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain.
(Numbers 5:23-24)ESV
His take on it was that Jesus may have been insinuating that everyone there would have to go through this Scriptural test before He would have approved the stoning. Go back up to Numbers 5:17:
And the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.
(Numbers 5:17)ESV
Was Jesus acting as the priest and writing appropriate curses from these verses in the dirt?
They sought to challenge Christ on a point of law and He responded with another point of law, and if this speculation is correct, he went beyond applying it only to an accused woman and challenged the men--who knew they could not pass the test.
Ooh! Ooh! I think you're on to something, Wintery! I never connected these two passages before, and it very well could fit. Num. 5:5-31 please let me sum up the chapter: if a man thought his wife had been unfaithful, the priest mixed holy water with dust from next to the altar (where dead animals had bled, so dust and dried blood - lots of bacteria. Yech) and had her drink it and swear she hadn't been unfaithful. If she had, she'd get a curse and part of her body would rot, and everyone would know.
So for Jesus to connect adultery and dust would remind the on-lookers about God's curse regarding adultery, the law of jealousy, and adulterers in that group could be face to face with God's law about them, too, and that they deserved death. I think Wintery's last paragraph summing it up is really insightful.
We don't know what He wrote, but I'd be surprised if Wintery wasn't right. We'll know a hundred years from now... 
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 1:57:02 PM
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theolotee
Posts: 40
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
but, i would like to add this... Jesus wasn't stumped by this... He knew exactly what to say and do, I don't believe He needed time to think, or figure out a way to answer properly... Jesus and the Father are One, He didn't have to think of the right answer, He already knew it.
I would disagree with this. While Jesus and God are one, we do see instances in the Bible where Christ is turning to the Father for strength and support (such as when He is in the garden praying that He doesn't have to go through the crucifixion) or for God to work miracles through Him. He turns to the Father in prayer for a number of reasons, so it is feasable that Christ was looking for the Father to support and guide Him in dealing with this predicament.
yes, Jesus did turn to the Father, but i can't find a single example that suggests that Jesus was confused or unsure, when He was challenged. In your example of the garden, Jesus was clear about His mission, He knew exactly what He was going to do... He wasn't asking the Father for "direction" or "answers", so to speak. like you said, He was asking for "strength" to complete the most challenging (and important) mission the world will ever see. this is very different than the topic we're talking about here.
He never misspoke or walked away thinking "I should have said this or that". Jesus deliberately chose every word He spoke, as well as, deliberately choosing each and every moment of silence... like when Pontius Pilate challenged Him in Mark 15:4 and verse 5 records Jesus' silence... there was a purpose for His silence. Jesus knew when to act, and when not to... He always knew exactly what to say and do and exactly how to say and do it... in my humble opinion.
theolotee
"wear your theology on your theolotee!"
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 2:16:40 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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quote:
yes, Jesus did turn to the Father, but i can't find a single example that suggests that Jesus was confused or unsure, when He was challenged.
I'm not sure I'm even saying that He was confused or unsure. I'm saying, though, that He called upon the Father for guidance in how to best answer that situation. Christ always knew what to do and what to say. Why? Because He let the Father lead Him. Yes, Jesus was more than just a normal man, but while He was here on Earth with us, He turns to the Father for strength, the ability to heal, to cast out demons, etc. He even tells us that everything that He does, He does because the Father is working through Him. For these reasons (which I've hopefully made clear) I see it being completely logical that Christ would turn to the Father for guidance in dealing with this situation.
In the instance in the garden, Christ is in a sense asking for direction/guidance. He states that He wants God to let this cup pass him by, but that He wants God's will to be done. Jesus is, in my view, asking if God will show Him a way where He won't have to go through the torture he is about to endure. However, He is willing to submit to the will of God and be led down the path that the Lord desires for Him.
quote:
He never misspoke or walked away thinking "I should have said this or that". Jesus deliberately chose every word He spoke, as well as, deliberately choosing each and every moment of silence... like when Pontius Pilate challenged Him in Mark 15:4 and verse 5 records Jesus' silence... there was a purpose for His silence. Jesus knew when to act, and when not to... He always knew exactly what to say and do and exactly how to say and do it...
I agree. And I believe that was because Christ was willing to let God lead Him at all times. He had complete faith in the Father and was completely in touch with God's will. This sets an excellent example for all of us, too.
Of course, this is my view only, and I hope I'm not taking away from the divinity of Christ with it.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 3:43:15 PM
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theolotee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
yes, Jesus did turn to the Father, but i can't find a single example that suggests that Jesus was confused or unsure, when He was challenged.
Yes, Jesus was more than just a normal man, but while He was here on Earth with us, He turns to the Father for strength, the ability to heal, to cast out demons, etc. He even tells us that everything that He does, He does because the Father is working through Him.
everything you said here was correct. however, applying it to this topic is where we part ways. look your examples, strength, healing, casting out demons... those aren't finding the words to say in a given situation. in a previous post, i quoted john 8:28, where Jesus says, "...I speak these things as the Father taught Me." (emphasis mine) this reference, being in the past tense, tells me that the Father had already told Him these things, which would remove the necessity for Jesus to ask again for something He was already given.
quote:
In the instance in the garden, Christ is in a sense asking for direction/guidance. He states that He wants God to let this cup pass him by, but that He wants God's will to be done. Jesus is, in my view, asking if God will show Him a way where He won't have to go through the torture he is about to endure. However, He is willing to submit to the will of God and be led down the path that the Lord desires for Him.
I believe Jesus was grieved by the fact that He had to be separated from the Father... and this is the "cup" that He desired to pass from Him. as bad as the torture was, I don't believe He was attempting to avoid this part of His mission.
quote:
He never misspoke or walked away thinking "I should have said this or that". Jesus deliberately chose every word He spoke, as well as, deliberately choosing each and every moment of silence... like when Pontius Pilate challenged Him in Mark 15:4 and verse 5 records Jesus' silence... there was a purpose for His silence. Jesus knew when to act, and when not to... He always knew exactly what to say and do and exactly how to say and do it...
quote:
I agree. And I believe that was because Christ was willing to let God lead Him at all times. He had complete faith in the Father and was completely in touch with God's will. This sets an excellent example for all of us, too.
Of course, this is my view only, and I hope I'm not taking away from the divinity of Christ with it.
Jesus prepared for His ministry, unlike many christian teachers today, unfortunately. the pharisees would not call him "Rabbi" for nothing. I believe John 8:28 gives some insight to this fact, and it was during the time the Father prepared Him, leading up to His ministry, when He was given what He needed, so that He knew what to do in moments like the one in this topic.
theolotee
"wear your theology on your theolotee!"
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 3:48:53 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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quote:
everything you said here was correct. however, applying it to this topic is where we part ways. look your examples, strength, healing, casting out demons... those aren't finding the words to say in a given situation.
I fail to see how its any different. In all cases, Christ would give looking to God to act on His behalf.
quote:
in a previous post, i quoted john 8:28, where Jesus says, "...I speak these things as the Father taught Me." (emphasis mine) this reference, being in the past tense, tells me that the Father had already told Him these things, which would remove the necessity for Jesus to ask again for something He was already given.
Taught can mean 10 seconds ago as easily as it means 1,000 years ago. In addition, when Christ says that in John 8:28, He is speaking in reference to His sermons/teachings. This is a different case. Its not a planned case where He's teaching; this is something the He's called to do off the cuff. And even if He does know the answer, I would believe that He would be choosing His words very carefully and maybe asking the Father to help Him put them out properly. This is an obvious trap by those who brought the woman to Him, and He will be judged by His words.
quote:
He had to be separated from the Father... and this is the "cup" that He desired to pass from Him. as bad as the torture was, I don't believe He was attempting to avoid this part of His mission.
Jesus was already separated from the Father, in part, when He came to Earth in human form.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 10/24/2008 4:00:38 PM >
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 7:46:32 PM
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19ramman85
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As far as Jesus in the garden ........
I kinda think his human side really, really didn't want to go thru w/ it.
The scurges, whippings, beatings, being spit upon, made the butt of ridicule, and to add insult to injury ........
Being nailed to a Cross! (which is a very slow and very painful way to die!)
Yeah, I think he may have had a few - "Human", reservations - but I also believe He really wanted to go thru w/ it.
Who wouldn't?
Remember - it took one heck of a exceptional man do go thru what he had to go thru. And if that were me in his shoes? I don't hesitate to say that I wouldnt have wanted to go thru w/ it.
-charles
p.s. - I could be wrong, but that's just the impression I get.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 8:03:46 PM
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SamsonUSA
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Of course what he actually wrote is pure speculation but I plan to ask him someday what it was.
This may have been mentioned in this thread previously as I haven't read through all of the pages. But during one sermon I heard a pastor speculate that Jesus was writing down some of the secret sins that the group of men surrounding the woman had committed in their lifetimes. Hence they left one by one, starting with the oldest first.
_____________________________
Knowledge humbles great men, astonishes the common man, and puffs up the little man
Chubby babies rock!
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 8:11:46 PM
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theolotee
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i like what wintery had to say... i've never heard that before and it is a possible fit, for sure.
TorchHeart-
i do not want to argue with you. the suggestions i get from your comments, runs in conflict with who He is. to suggest that these people sprung this on Him and surprised Him in some way, doesn't fit with anything else i read about Jesus. i can not find another instance recorded in the bible, where Jesus was surprised and/or caught off guard, or unaware of what was coming...
the way you describe it, the Father in heaven was there, making Jesus wait to give them an answer... and Jesus had to find something to do to look busy, until the Father gave Him the answer to say... at least that what i get from your comments and this isn't consistent with anything else written about Jesus.
quote:
Jesus was already separated from the Father, in part, when He came to Earth in human form.
I know you say, "in part", but the separation that we're talking about was spiritual separation. Many believe, as do i, that the impending spiritual separation, is what distressed and grieved Jesus' spirit. remember, this is the only time in all eternity Jesus would be spiritually separated from the Father. Here are the notes for Matt. 27:46, where Jesus cries out, "ELI, ELI, LAMA SABACHTHANI" in my "Life Application Study Bible". (the bold portion is my highlight, not in the text of my bible's notes)
Jesus was not questioning God; He was quoting the first line of Psalm 22--a deep expression of the anguish He felt when He took on the sins of the world, which caused Him to be separated from His Father. This was what Jesus dreaded as He prayed to God in the garden to take the cup from Him. The physical agony was horrible, but even worse was the period of spiritual separation from God. Jesus suffered this double death so that we would never have to experience eternal separation from God.
I've read this same sentiment in other biblical commentaries and heard it many times from various biblical teachers... i can not take credit for this insight... although, i selfishly wish i could... 
theolotee
"wear your theology on your theolotee!"
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 9:18:30 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theolotee
Jesus suffered this double death so that we would never have to experience eternal separation from God.
Well I can see the point your making but it has to be cleaned up a little
Matthew 27:50-56
50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. 51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.
Those bodies...who had fallen asleep were raised, there was no second death until Jesus fulfilled his purpose in the earth.....and in like manner condemned sin in the flesh.
But what is pictured in what is written above by the word MANY.. means not all bodies who had fallen asleep were raised ....only the saints!!
Because many who were unrighteous are still awaiting the resurrection into eternal darkness that has nothing to do with Jesus.
And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. …..which is to fulfilled in its own time,
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved...
……..and in like manner………
Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that “I am He”, ......you will die in your sins." = the second death.
Therefore …. That which is to be fulfilled in its own time which is the second death is opposite that Jesus has come in His Father's name, buy this statement here….and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name,) =him you will receive…..
So the resurrection into eternal darkness is to be fulfilled in its own time; when “the other comes in his own name”
; and has nothing to do with Jesus.
quote:
Jesus suffered this double death so that we would never have to experience eternal separation from God. That Is not correct, Jesus died once… or that statement would be attributing Jesus as receiving the one who will comes in his own name… and not in the name of His Father.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 9:53:46 PM
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delete123
Posts: 994
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quote:
ORIGINAL: theolotee
TorchHeart-
i do not want to argue with you. the suggestions i get from your comments, runs in conflict with who He is. to suggest that these people sprung this on Him and surprised Him in some way, doesn't fit with anything else i read about Jesus. i can not find another instance recorded in the bible, where Jesus was surprised and/or caught off guard, or unaware of what was coming...
the way you describe it, the Father in heaven was there, making Jesus wait to give them an answer... and Jesus had to find something to do to look busy, until the Father gave Him the answer to say... at least that what i get from your comments and this isn't consistent with anything else written about Jesus.
theolotee
And... sometimes Jesus prayed or asked from God, not because of what He knew, but what the people did not.
And example of this is when Lazarus was dead in the tomb for 4 days. He prayed publicly and stated not for Him but for those that had ear to hear. (Yes He already knew the answer and that it would happen, but He was dealing with people's unbelief and the law at the same time. Being scrutinized by the pharisitical jews)
This same example can be applied to the writing in the sand, 'He could have' reacted like He was seeking/ praying/ waiting for a sign, for the sake of the people, all the while knowing what He would write.
Again being scrutinized by the teachers, priests, and law bearers, He may have pondered, so they would question.
Anyhow it is everyone's speculation
I enjoy Wintery and Loyal Gypsy's speculation best
But that is exactly what it is, speculation at best.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/24/2008 10:13:44 PM
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Roberta_
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I don't know what He wrote, but I bet it was interesting.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/26/2008 9:01:17 PM
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chrisovery
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i think that if it was for us to know it would have been written in the word of god. it is not so i think it is something that we really need to overlook and not really worry about. we can speculate all we want but we do not know that it is true.
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It is utterly impossible to govern a nation with out the Lord Jesus Christ and the bible.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/27/2008 8:31:28 PM
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19ramman85
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chrisovery ........ we can speculate all we want but we do not know that it is true.
True dat, but - it sure is fun to see what differant answers come up!
-charles
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/28/2008 9:56:38 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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What conclusions have WE drawn? How have WE expressed the character of Jesus in the speculations of our mind and heart? What possibilities have WE conjured up in our speculation of Jesus' action and intent? I find it interesting. Some of us have given what I believe to be wise, sincere, plausible answers that are in tune with Jesus' character. Some, however, have given what I see as mocking, insincere, and totally implausible answers that are against the character of Jesus.
Therefore, I have come to understand that speculating on this matter shows us more truth about ourselves (our own hearts and thoughts) than it does about what actually happened. Our conclusions have shown us not only what we know about Jesus historically, but what we feel about our Lord's character... Our Creator... and the Reedemer of our souls. It has been to good to speculate on the matter.
< Message edited by d4nnyb0y02 -- 10/28/2008 10:02:47 AM >
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/28/2008 2:33:14 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What conclusions have WE drawn? How have WE expressed the character of Jesus in the speculations of our mind and heart? What possibilities have WE conjured up in our speculation of Jesus' action and intent? I find it interesting. Some of us have given what I believe to be wise, sincere, plausible answers that are in tune with Jesus' character. Some, however, have given what I see as mocking, insincere, and totally implausible answers that are against the character of Jesus.
Therefore, I have come to understand that speculating on this matter shows us more truth about ourselves (our own hearts and thoughts) than it does about what actually happened. Our conclusions have shown us not only what we know about Jesus historically, but what we feel about our Lord's character... Our Creator... and the Reedemer of our souls. It has been to good to speculate on the matter.
Interesting.
Do you assume that because I said "batman logo" that I have a less Sovereign view of my Lord and Savior?
Maybe I don't love Him as much as you because I didn't jump through your speculative hoops?
_____________________________
love.ben
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/28/2008 3:45:42 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What conclusions have WE drawn? How have WE expressed the character of Jesus in the speculations of our mind and heart? What possibilities have WE conjured up in our speculation of Jesus' action and intent? I find it interesting. Some of us have given what I believe to be wise, sincere, plausible answers that are in tune with Jesus' character. Some, however, have given what I see as mocking, insincere, and totally implausible answers that are against the character of Jesus.
Therefore, I have come to understand that speculating on this matter shows us more truth about ourselves (our own hearts and thoughts) than it does about what actually happened. Our conclusions have shown us not only what we know about Jesus historically, but what we feel about our Lord's character... Our Creator... and the Reedemer of our souls. It has been to good to speculate on the matter.
Interesting.
Do you assume that because I said "batman logo" that I have a less Sovereign view of my Lord and Savior?
Maybe I don't love Him as much as you because I didn't jump through your speculative hoops?
No, I most certainly wouldn't say that I love Him more. I'm as capable of failing to love Him as the next person. However, I did find what you said to be rather irreverant and insincere. As you pointed out, you speculated that Jesus drew a Batman logo on the ground when saving a woman from most certain death by the hands of the hypocritical Pharisees that brought her to Him.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/28/2008 4:17:59 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
What conclusions have WE drawn? How have WE expressed the character of Jesus in the speculations of our mind and heart? What possibilities have WE conjured up in our speculation of Jesus' action and intent? I find it interesting. Some of us have given what I believe to be wise, sincere, plausible answers that are in tune with Jesus' character. Some, however, have given what I see as mocking, insincere, and totally implausible answers that are against the character of Jesus.
Therefore, I have come to understand that speculating on this matter shows us more truth about ourselves (our own hearts and thoughts) than it does about what actually happened. Our conclusions have shown us not only what we know about Jesus historically, but what we feel about our Lord's character... Our Creator... and the Reedemer of our souls. It has been to good to speculate on the matter.
Being serious, your conclussion is flawed. Just because I believe that Christ simply doodled in the dirt while waiting to reply to the mob, rather than GUESS that he wrote out some great and prophetic revelation (that was so important that it wasn't even included in the Gospels) in the dirt doesn't show anything more about my heart being any more sincere towards my views of Him.
I think you took this WAY too seriously.
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RE: What did Jesus write in the dirt? - 10/28/2008 4:26:35 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
What conclusions have WE drawn? How have WE expressed the character of Jesus in the speculations of our mind and heart? What possibilities have WE conjured up in our speculation of Jesus' action and intent? I find it interesting. Some of us have given what I believe to be wise, sincere, plausible answers that are in tune with Jesus' character. Some, however, have given what I see as mocking, insincere, and totally implausible answers that are against the character of Jesus.
Therefore, I have come to understand that speculating on this matter shows us more truth about ourselves (our own hearts and thoughts) than it does about what actually happened. Our conclusions have shown us not only what we know about Jesus historically, but what we feel about our Lord's character... Our Creator... and the Reedemer of our souls. It has been to good to speculate on the matter.
Good synopsis. Thanks!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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I'm losing my touch. 
