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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 9:40:50 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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I went to a church and they did that, and the pastor told us to tell our neighbor something that i did not agree with... so i refused to be an insincere parrot.
one thing my church does at the end of service - we are to find a partner to pray with and I want to run from that.. because i want to just pray alone. I start to pray alone and then someone taps me on the shoulder. Not wanting to be rude and cast them away I have to consent to praying with them. But i dont like the way anyone else prays.. its almost like they are reading. I also feel strange because I feel like I have to sound like they all do.
am I overly sensitive or what? I dont feel comfortable praying with another person and me outloud like that. I want to run to the bathroom when that time comes.
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 9:43:24 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
He went on to justify his comments by saying, "you cheer, root and holler for your favorite team... but here you sit all quiet and reserved.... make some noise for Jesus!!! woooo!!!!!"
but I do NOT go to ball games in the first place and therefore i do not cheer for sports!
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 9:47:21 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5140
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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I guess I don't think it's the pastor's job to facilitate relationship building. I think his job is to teach on it, and to set a good example, but it's not his job to make people be friends. I remember a pastor once who was distressed at the lack of good relationships in his church, and so he set up this system where he matched everyone up with a buddy and they were supposed to invite each other over to eat once a month. I thought that was contrived and artificial. I thought we would have done much better to just teach on hospitality, and then set an example by inviting people over himself and encouraging them to do likewise.
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Bonky
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 10:14:45 AM
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RamiRedeemed
Posts: 2628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
I went to a church and they did that, and the pastor told us to tell our neighbor something that i did not agree with... so i refused to be an insincere parrot.
one thing my church does at the end of service - we are to find a partner to pray with and I want to run from that.. because i want to just pray alone. I start to pray alone and then someone taps me on the shoulder. Not wanting to be rude and cast them away I have to consent to praying with them. But i dont like the way anyone else prays.. its almost like they are reading. I also feel strange because I feel like I have to sound like they all do.
am I overly sensitive or what? I dont feel comfortable praying with another person and me outloud like that. I want to run to the bathroom when that time comes.
Oh girl that would bother me like no other! I have a strict "no praying in public" policy so in your situation I would just leave and come back when it's over. I'm more than capable of praying for someone at home in private, it doesn't need to be done publicly to be heard by God.
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Some people talk because they have something to say.
Others talk because they have to say something.
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ramireconciled.blogspot.com
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 10:50:18 AM
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MyRedeemerLives39
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Another person in the minority, here. I've actually grown to like this. I worship in a large church and the pastor has worked hard to guide the church to be a very friendly and welcoming church. If it weren't for these times, I might just sit there with nobody acknowledging my presence at all. I'm fairly shy, but with this spirit in the church, I've met a number of people I wouldn't have met otherwise. It's a chance for me to notice someone new and speak to them because we don't have exclusive conversations... we talk to everyone. It's just hand-shaking unless we know the person, then we have no problem with hugs. People now notice when I'm not there, and vice versa.
And as to the specific things to say, it's usually the pastor being silly/cheesy and hardly anyone in my section uses his "prompts". Well, if we're feeling silly, we do, but most of the time, we're just genuinely glad to see each other after a week.
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 11:48:15 AM
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Roberta_
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I've never cared one way or the other about it. Sometimes it comes in handy if you don't really know people that well. It gives you an "ice breaker" so to speak.
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 4:09:24 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 11092
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From: Washington State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
And yes, I do think being instructed on what to say by a pastor is cheesy (in lieu of "stupid", as used in the quote above). However, I also think it's more than that. I think it produces a false sense of community and relationship.
Does it produce it or is the congregation that way despite it? I guess I'm not following why some think this is not just annoying but is actually harmful. As folks have shared throughout this thread, that quick little greeting can be USED for God's glory or it can be like anything else - abused. My church is one that frequently does these silly things and we are also one that most folks say is very friendly and genuine. I think those little greeting times is just one more tool in helping us look outside ourselves.
quote:
James actually proved this point with this:
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
If you were new to a church,would't you want to be greeted?
Not if it was only because the pastor said to or it was scheduled into the service. I'd rather have someone notice me in the foyer/halls and come up to me and introduce themselves.
I'm sorry to say that in a great deal of churches around here you'd be disappointed. Sad, but true.
To me, that is much more serious than being cheesy; and that is why I object to it.
I don't really see what greeting folks has to do with this. A church can be like this if they do a greeting and if they don't do a greeting.
I'm thinking of a church I tried out when I headed off to college. They didn't do these greetings during the service. Their pastor was awesome - very welcoming, a great model of love and friendliness. He preached on this very thing - quite frequently - in the short time I was there. And you know what: He was the ONLY one who seemed to look outside himself. I would hang out afterwards hoping to meet someone and get connected. I think the few months I was there, I had 2 people actually say hi.
quote:
These same churches, though, seem to be the biggest on these scripted greetings, so I truly don't see how it is teaching people to build relationships with one another.
It's not teaching people to build relationships. I think that's where folks are missing the point. I don't know a single pastor out there who thinks: "Let's see, if I can get folks to turn and say something goofy to the person next to them that will make us all love each other and be friends. There. My job is done."
Let me share how my church operates since we do those silly little greetings (and by the way - I have never been to a church where this is done where the pastor is standing up there actually expecting folks to do exactly what he said - he is simply trying to engage folks to look outside their we-four-and-no-more-pew). Our pastor may say something like, "Find 2 people you don't know and tell them God loves them" (ok, silly example but I'm not very creative today). You will find a few folks who immediately sit down and stare at their laps and ignore everyone around them. You will find a few folks who do this very thing the pastor said. You will find MOST folks chuckle, then turn to those around them and maybe say what was said and then ADD to it a greeting and a big smile. Does out pastor care if we all said exactly what he told us to say or that we found exactly 2 new people? No. Not at all.  His only concern is are we staring at our Bibles or are we going to take advantage of a quick opportunity to look outside ourselves.
Now, you will find that no one has made friends or developed some kind of deep emotional tie, but there are a few subtle things that just happened:
1. You made human contact and looked outside yourself. By doing so, you SAW the new folks, you SAW someone who may look lost or hurting, you SAW the person who hasn't been in church for a while. And you had the opportunity to speak a few words (your own or not) into their life. Or a short prayer.
2. You become a little more aware that church isn't just about me, myself and I. It's about being a part of something bigger. It's easy to zone out in your little pew and think church is about YOUR worship, YOUR learning, YOUR prayers. This brief moment, was a quick reminder that it's not.
3. Now that you have seen those around you, when the service ends, you have a purpose. That new person who gathers up their coat and wants to head straight for the door because they don't know anyone and are too shy to want to hang out for fellowship after can't "get away" not without you taking that extra moment to introduce yourself and try and connect with you. And it won't be nearly so awkward, because you have already giggled with each other and shared a smile and a greeting.
And so on.
Does everyone do this? No. Is a silly greeting going to change this? Probably not. Are some folks being fake? Aren't some folks always being fake and who are you to judge that?  However, as I stated earlier: You can make of it what you will. Who cares of the guy down the pew is being grumpy and just says something to "get it over with and get back to the sermon". Seriously? Who cares? What matters is what WE make of it and honestly, this is a super simple tool we can use to reach beyond ourselved - IF WE'LL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT.
The Bible tells us to "make the most of every opportunity". Sometimes I think though we are too busy watching how other people are flubbing stuff and how some idea is silly to actually "make the most of every opportunity". What would happen if instead of spending our time grousing about how that's not the way WE would do something, we saw it as an opportunity, made it our own and stepped outside our little boxes?
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~Kristin~
Classified Ads: "Government employer looking for candidates. Criminal background required."
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 6:46:14 PM
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1love1God1way
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There's a whole lot of baditude in this thread.
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/27/2008 6:59:38 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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I don't mind this when the Pastor does it...I'm usually sitting next to Rami anyways, actually most all the time. And I have no problem telling her she is good looking or that I love her...she just doesn't want to say it back... boo, ha :(
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/28/2008 9:17:14 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5140
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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Phosy, I understand what you are saying. But what is the point of the scripted greeting? Couldn't everything you just said be accomplished the exact same way if the pastor simply said, "Take a few minutes to greet someone you don't know?" Maybe you know that you aren't expected to say those exact words, but I've been in church all my life and this thread is the first time I've ever heard anyone say that you aren't expected to say what the pastor told you to say. I'd personally be much more likely to reach out to someone I didn't know if I didn't feel like I was supposed to repeat a corny line. I take things pretty literally most of the time. If the pastor says shake hands with five people, I'll shake hands with five people. If he says tell the person on my right that God thinks they are special, I will turn to my husband on my right and whisper it into his ear. If he tells me to find someone I don't know and greet them, I'll find someone I don't know and greet them. If that's the point of the whole exercise, then why not make that the instruction from the start? Telling someone to turn to the person on my right and say something does not accomplish that for me personally, if for no other reason because the person on my right is probably a family member and not someone I haven't met.
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Bonky
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/28/2008 9:46:24 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
What I don't care for, is holding hands and singing a theme song at the end (our prior church did this
I agree...one person comes to church sick with a cold/flu etc and the next five weeks it's passed around the congregation.
I HATE THAT.
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/28/2008 1:16:10 PM
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raspberry331
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Phosadaud,I agree with your post. Why is everyone blowing this all out of proportion? It's simply a time of fellowship with your brothers and sisters in Christ. If we can't do this with our brothers and sisters,how are we outside of the church?
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/28/2008 2:29:50 PM
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.Pammy
Posts: 3888
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: PA, USA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
quote:
If you were new to a church,would't you want to be greeted?
Not if it was only because the pastor said to or it was scheduled into the service. I'd rather have someone notice me in the foyer/halls and come up to me and introduce themselves.
I just found this thread, and I haven't finished reading through it yet, but I just had to reply to this before finishing.
THIS is the reason I'm at the church where I am now. I CAME to it because of the pastor, but I STAYED because of the way I was warmly greeted and loved on. NOT because anyone was told to, they just did. In fact, when I was "church shopping I'd visited other churches where there were these types of greetings during the service, and they didn't make me feel welcome at all. I felt exactly like the people greeting me were only doing what they were told to do. So what was the point?
I've been thinking of this very thing almost since I started reading the thread.
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Pam
<< Toby
"Sweet-talkers win at singles' bars and in politics ... often with similar outcomes for the listener."
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/28/2008 5:57:27 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6355
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
He went on to justify his comments by saying, "you cheer, root and holler for your favorite team... but here you sit all quiet and reserved.... make some noise for Jesus!!! woooo!!!!!"
but I do NOT go to ball games in the first place and therefore i do not cheer for sports!
Exactly. He didn't seem to understand that not everyone is a cheering sports type of person. A lot of people are reserved... or have more etiquette than that.
*ducks*
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/28/2008 7:13:26 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5140
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
He went on to justify his comments by saying, "you cheer, root and holler for your favorite team... but here you sit all quiet and reserved.... make some noise for Jesus!!! woooo!!!!!"
but I do NOT go to ball games in the first place and therefore i do not cheer for sports!
Exactly. He didn't seem to understand that not everyone is a cheering sports type of person. A lot of people are reserved... or have more etiquette than that.
*ducks*
I think a lot of pastors want to feel like there's been some response to what they've preached. If people come, listen quietly, and then go home, some pastors wonder if anyone really heard the message, and if what he preached did any good.
Some pastors gauge the success of their preaching on the vocal response (Amens, shouts, etc.) and some use the response to the altar call as an indicator of how well things went. I suspect even some of the "turn to the neighbor on your right" thing may be part of that--after all, if he can't get them to apply the sermon into their lives, at least he can get them to turn to their neighbor! I'm sure that not all pastors do it for that reason, though.
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Bonky
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/29/2008 9:26:26 AM
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momma_bee
Posts: 1324
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I always hated it. And in the interest of full disclosure we are not going to any church right now...
We were supposed to say "peace be with you" but it was meaningless and repeated over and over without thought because we were told to. Not because we didn't wish people the peace of Christ but it would be like trying to post that phrase in every thread you are subbed to in 10 minutes. You could do it, you may want it for the OP, but you won't have felt it. It would be cut-n-paste and post.
We were supposed to say "good morning" How dumb? Didn't I just say good morning to every family on the outside of the pew when I walked past? And, that family behind me? I talked to them for 5 minutes before the service started.
As a visitor who goes to denominations that tend to have assigned pews I sit far to the front to avoid taking a seat. That is what I feel comfortable doing. So, after you have turned and greeted the person to your right, left, front and back, you see me, off by myself and run down as everyone is returning to there seats and the congregation is waiting on YOU to return to your seat and they are watching ME. ICK.
Or, you noticed me before the service started and walked my way instead. Great. So did two or three other people and I feel like a sideshow attraction. ICK, ICK.
But that is me.
And, as a frozen chosen, do not ask me to say anything during the sermon. I won't play along. I won't be standing up, saying Amen, or waving my hand while I sing. That is fine for you. Really. But don't ask me to do it and don't sway into my personal space.
I remember a Memorial Day service in town. 90% of the attendees are Protestant. The Pastor was from a more animated congregation. He told us that when his tie was turned over, we were supposed to say "Amen." Half way through the sermon, he deliberately flipped it and NO ONE responded to the cue. He reminded us to do it and flipped it again. Folks mummured Amen and he didn't do it again. Maybe he was embarrassed, but so were we. Maybe we were asked to 'shake our complacency aside" but I always feel like we are supposed to keep our prayers private...Better to pray in a closet.
But, I do have personal space issues. Control issues. And I hate being looked at. So - I'm a bit off of norm.
But, I have always hated it. Even as a child. ICK.
Did I say ICK ICK ICK???
Love you guys anyhow.
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/29/2008 9:36:21 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5140
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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(Momma Bee)
You know, I think that's what these different programs and assimilation strategies tend to forget--people are individuals. Not everyone is the same. We can't do things the same way for every person expecting it to work. One person will love the greeting time and think it's the highlight of the day, and another person will want to hide under their pew or may even not come back. Neither person is wrong for feeling the way they do about it--it's a personal preference, not a moral issue.
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Bonky
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/29/2008 1:35:14 PM
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ladyingrace1979
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Joined: 3/14/2008
From: Fresno CA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WhiteRoseBlessings
quote:
ORIGINAL: KuKu
We don't have a quota, nor are we instructed to say anything to our neighbor... after verse 2 of the first hymn, we have about 3 minutes to shake hands with others. Recently, I turned and saw a new girl, and chatted a bit with her. The pastor was coming past, greeting, and he asked to interrupt long enough to shake hands and then we could resume our (short) conversation (ie. go ahead and 'get to know her', just give me a sec. to say hi). I have since sought her out a few other times to chat for a moment or two, before or after service or Sunday School... KuKu - this is awesome!
I don't like the "say ....to your neighbor" I think it is silly. But the greeting time is important for just what you have said. To take time to say hello to a new person or a person you haven't seen in a while. I've met a bunch of new people this way. I usually have to scurry back to my seat because I'm being too chatty. But people need to be noticed and their presence appreciated.
Kim Q
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/29/2008 2:14:05 PM
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momma_bee
Posts: 1324
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Lisa - thanks for the hug. I have been reading this thread and wanted to post.
I really do have a personal space issue. I was never really good about letting people in but it did get a lot worse since that mugging thing. And, the more I avoid those situations, the more ingrained the behavior becomes...
And, I share that because it occurs to me that someone who has been hurt by people they trust could feel threatened or at least overwhelmed by being forced into the middle of the group.
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/29/2008 5:48:10 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Pastors, do you do these "turn to your neighbor" things? If so, why? I've never figured out what the purpose of that was. It always seemed corny and silly to me.
If you are not a pastor, does your pastor do this? Do you feel it's worth doing or not, and why?
Yes, only he usually says something like, "Say hello to three people you don't know."
I always thought it was a good way to make people feel welcome and it's never been a negative for me.
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~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: "Turn to the person on your right and say...&q... - 10/30/2008 7:11:29 AM
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makarizo
Posts: 3000
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my pastor did it as kind of an example/joke once - he made a very good, valid point.
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