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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 4:30:24 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
It's in the context of what is lawful but not beneficial or edifying.
I'm not sure where you're getting that. Verse 24 clearly supports my view.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 5:03:16 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
The listener is one who can excercise their will too. Music has no power to take you over unless you let it. I can watch a police murder mystery and have no desire to kill anyone. I can listen to a song about anything and it still doesn't influence my values.
No offense, but that is like saying, "I can eat whatever I want and it doesn't effect my body." Our eyes and ears are great inlets into our soul, and what we choose to block and allow greatly effects who we are and will become.
quote:
Good for you and I respect your choice! Now please show some respect to ours! No one here will tell you to give up the music you choose to listen to. But I take exception to the insinuation that people are "less Christian" if they listen to secular music!
I'm respecting it, I just disagree.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 5:05:28 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
It's in the context of what is lawful but not beneficial or edifying.
I'm not sure where you're getting that. Verse 24 clearly supports my view.
Your view that it is lawful? I agree.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 5:07:58 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Your view that it is lawful? I agree.
No, my view that this passage is speaking about not causing those with weaker faiths to stumble because of what we find acceptable.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 5:11:44 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Your view that it is lawful? I agree.
No, my view that this passage is speaking about not causing those with weaker faiths to stumble because of what we find acceptable.
Okay, if that is the case, what if your listening to secular music causes those of "weaker faith" to stumble? Perhaps that is why I choose not to listen to secular music, in part, because I do not wish to setup a stumbling block for those of weaker faith, knowing that I partake in secular music.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 7:33:49 PM
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Market42Fan
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I'm thinking of another Scripture referring to this topic in 1 Corinthians 6:12.
What I gather from that is that even though some things are permissible for the Christian, the critical issue is whether or not a particular thing is beneficial.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 8:02:40 PM
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MrFribbles
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DannyBoy,
quote:
Okay, if that is the case, what if your listening to secular music causes those of "weaker faith" to stumble?
Then its their responsibility to tell me - how else would I know?
And keep in mind that "stumble" doesn't just mean "get piously annoyed." For me to cause someone to stumble, I must be directly involved in causing them to sin.
Market42Fan,
quote:
I'm thinking of another Scripture referring to this topic in 1 Corinthians 6:12.
What I gather from that is that even though some things are permissible for the Christian, the critical issue is whether or not a particular thing is beneficial.
If that was really what Paul was trying to say there, then that would mean prostitution would be OK for Christians. I believe that there, he was turning the Corinthians own "I'm saved so I can do whatever I want" argument against them, especially in the area of sexual immorality. There's no hint of addressing secular music here.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 8:34:40 PM
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wbporter
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I can think of a pair of secular songs that preach pretty good sermons on what fatherhood should (or shouldn't) be. Dan Fogelberg's "Leader of the Band" is the positive example while Harry Chapin's "Cat's in the Cradle" is the wrong way.
They may be secular but James Dobson has quoted from both of them.
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Pacem.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/24/2008 11:19:27 PM
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pryze
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wow... it is very interesting to se diffrent points here and it brings me back to what the person quoted on my blog at www.youngpryze.blogspot.com,....it is simply a matter of the heart...see my spirit kind of yearned me away from even enjoying secular music and I thank God for that you see music was a big part of my life before JESUS it was the thing that kind of filled my void you know...I was a rapper and i loved rap music and hip hop anything else sounded weird..i could basically hear a song and embody that image or personality and start talking or behaving like that, yea it was a big problem...see even though i lived in the suburbs and my parents were godly parents the devil was using that music to fuel and teach me a culture that was foreign to me....before I knew it I was joining a gang in one of the most notorious streets in new jersey...and honestly, i loved it. I felt like this was truly me and thats how life carried on for a couple of years. Looking back I can see how God was looking out for me, i was almost never around when something big happened, never involved in a crime(though i wanted to be)......to make a long story short the God who heard my moms prayers as I was showing signs of rebellion answered. When Christ uprooted my life and removed the scales that had been covering my eyes ....one of the first major life changes was all of the sudden losing the capabilitie and understanding of all secular music
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visit my blog at...
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Grace and Peace
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 8:38:13 AM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
DannyBoy,
quote:
Okay, if that is the case, what if your listening to secular music causes those of "weaker faith" to stumble?
Then its their responsibility to tell me - how else would I know?
And keep in mind that "stumble" doesn't just mean "get piously annoyed." For me to cause someone to stumble, I must be directly involved in causing them to sin.
I find it interesting that Paul left it to the mature believer to be resposible towards their weaker brother/sister. He never says "don't ever eat meat from idols because it causes some to stumble". This is exactly the tack some legalists have taken in thread, however. Not only have they decided what is wrongful for them to do in regards to weaker Christians, they have decided what's wrong for everybody else and are descending from on high to straighten things out. What arrogance! The Pharisees live!
_____________________________
Heartland Rocks!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EK9opsMo0jg
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 11:34:07 AM
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HoosierMusicLover
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I actually listen to both. There are some things that are obvious not to put in my mind (i.e.-Runnin With the Devil by Van Halen) and some that I look back fondly on that give an excellent guidance for me (i.e.-Lamu by Michael W Smith). I think it's because I grew up when some Christian music started taking chances such as Petra, Love Song, Steve Taylor, etc. I think for my tastes and preferences (since we all have different styles we gravitate too and enjoy) I'm wondering where are the Petras, the Larry Normans, the Daniel Amos's of today. I saw where one poster mentioned in their view too much of it sounds what I would call emo, which actually is a problem with music as a whole today.
Nothing seems to stand out at all, in either genre. As a guy who writes lyrics and has played violin and trying to teach himself accoustic guitar, I like the music, the beat of it. I want something to have a groove I enjoy, but I don't want lyrics to bring me down (ELO-don't bring me down... HA  ) I can enjoy anything from Petra's Coloring Song and Praise Ye The Lord to Steve Taylor's Meltdown to some TobyMac and KJ-52 to Sam/Lelslie Phillips on the one side. On the other, as someone who once played alone and in the orchestra I love the full sound of Chicago (more their earlier stuff but I like most all of it), I enjoy Journey, Alabama, Bob Seger, Mellencamp (who grew up here and still lives nearby!), Brad Paisley, etc. I just have to be cautious because even in those there may be a song or two in that catalogue that I may have to skip to guard my own mind. And not just in that group, in the first one some are fun and enjoyable just as in secular but the lyrics are so hoky that I have to skip those too.
As in every area of my life, I have to ask if I'm in balance, and make sure I don't cross the line. I've seen people who refuse to listen to Christian music because they look at the trite part instead of the whole picture, and others who write me off because I listen to a variety of secular. As long as we live in healthy balance, but that's my take I guess. Y'all enjoy the weekend!
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Lord, come quickly.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 2:08:30 PM
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AmplifiedFaith
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Well, we all know whatever music we listen to is what we end up thinking about. So what about Philippians 4:8.....
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.(NIV)
What drives me crazy is when you have these "christian bands" who sing all these songs that are no different from the "worlds" music. We as Christians are not suppost to conform to the pattern of this world (Romans 12:2).
_____________________________
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understandings, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:4-5
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 2:26:46 PM
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Giggles56
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Is there anything wrong with Christian artists playing different genres of music to reach out to either other Christians or lost people? Using music is a great way to touch others lives be it rap, rock, pop, orchestral, etc. We try to meet others where they are at.
Secular music is not all bad since there are artists who are Christians but choose to play in the mainstream and choose not to be labeled "Christian". This is one way to for them to reach those who need Christ. If any music causes you to fall or becomes a stumbling block then don't listen. I choose to stay away from that IMO that which is lyrically, nonsense and has no meaning or substance to it, or glorifies drugs, sex, greed, etc.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 5:28:40 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
What drives me crazy is when you have these "christian bands" who sing all these songs that are no different from the "worlds" music. We as Christians are not suppost to conform to the pattern of this world (Romans 12:2).
More drive by criticism, all without a single example to help support the argument.
Would it be asking too much to name a Christian song or artist that does this?
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"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 7:39:00 PM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmplifiedFaith
So what about Philippians 4:8.....
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.(NIV)
So...it leaves it to the individual to decide. It doesn't forbid anything in particular. Again, I find it interesting how restrained the Lord is in commanding us on specific things to do or not do. Legalists, on the other hand, can't get enough of forbidding this or requiring that.
_____________________________
Heartland Rocks!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EK9opsMo0jg
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 9:02:56 PM
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AmplifiedFaith
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
What drives me crazy is when you have these "christian bands" who sing all these songs that are no different from the "worlds" music. We as Christians are not suppost to conform to the pattern of this world (Romans 12:2).
More drive by criticism, all without a single example to help support the argument.
Would it be asking too much to name a Christian song or artist that does this?
Okay, for example Hawk Nelson's song Bring 'um Out. By looking at those lyrics you could never tell that was supposed to be a christian song. Now that's just my opinion, I don't like songs that don't have true meaning (like honoring God).
_____________________________
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understandings, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:4-5
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 9:20:37 PM
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tafkam
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UI think it's fairly obvious that "Bring em Out" isn't a song about God. So your problem would be?
Hey, I'm an unabashed Christian songwriter, but I have also written songs about my kids and my wife...are you saying those songs don't have "true meaning"....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 9:25:49 PM
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AmplifiedFaith
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That is not what I am saying.....I just think that if they are considered a christian band that they should sing songs that bring honor and glory to Christ.
_____________________________
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understandings, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:4-5
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 9:29:56 PM
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tafkam
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quote:
That is not what I am saying.....I just think that if they are considered a christian band that they should sing songs that bring honor and glory to Christ.
So again, as a Christian artist, if I do a song about my wife or kids, then that is not honoring Christ?
We don't expect Christian plumbers to only work on churches, and we don't expect Christian car dealers to only sell to Christians, so why is it when it comes to music it is suddenly decided that, if you're a Christian and you have a voice, that you must only sing Christian songs?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/25/2008 11:57:41 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
We don't expect Christian plumbers to only work on churches, and we don't expect Christian car dealers to only sell to Christians, so why is it when it comes to music it is suddenly decided that, if you're a Christian and you have a voice, that you must only sing Christian songs?
Well put. I agree entirely. And really, I think a responsible Christian artist will write songs about all kinds of subjects - assuming, of course, they feel artistically led to do so. Some Christian musicians might feel led to only write "praise" songs, and hey, if that's what floats their boat, then go for it.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/26/2008 3:41:34 AM
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Digrieze
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I read (and play) both. I'm old enough to remember when musicians didn't suffer from the CCM / secular divide and brilliant musicians were free to write songs about their faith without suffering the slings and arrows of the CCM only crowd (you know them, they're a distant second cousin to the KJV only crowd). Eric Clapton's "In the Presence of the Lord" was only one obvious (and brilliant) example of that.
Music is written from the heart about life. It'll reflect the life of the songwriter/lyricist as filtered through his hearts attitudes. When I come across music that's simply this world's poison regurgitated through a bruised and battered heart I avoid it. It's still poison and only serves to continue poisoning those around it. By the way, I put some of the music coming out of the modern Latter Day Reign / New Apostolic Renewal in the same place. "Trancing" is nothing more than eastern religious music repackaged and designed to point the listners away from Jesus as their Lord to some angel or other "new apostle's" words. What "christian" music does NOT do is fall along the simple lines of CCM / secular.
Ironically, one of the best songs about a lost man saved from total depravity by loves' grace in the past 10 years didn't appear on a "christian" album or label. It was "Blind as a Bat" from "Bat Out of Hell III" by Meatloaf.
Currently the church / CCM crowd has inserted a false standard that if a song doesn't directly speak of God or Jesus it isn't christian. I suppose the same people think God made a mistake when He inspired the writing of, insured the preservation of, and finally cannonized the book of Ruth, since any presence of God is only assumed.
In short, a song that speaks truthfully about life will inevitably be compatible with christian faith, whether the artist or label has a dove or fish on the cd case or not.
_____________________________
My hope, my wish, my prayer is that you find the life that Jesus created you to live and has hidden within Himself so in living that life you may have a uniquely intimate communion with Him. (Col.3:1-4)
Yours in the love of Jesus
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/26/2008 8:32:14 AM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmplifiedFaith
That is not what I am saying.....I just think that if they are considered a christian band that they should sing songs that bring honor and glory to Christ.
You're entitled to your opinion, but there's no such commandment in the Bible. There is plenty of stuff in there about not misusing scripture for ones own ends or as a personal hobby horse, but legalists never seem to grasp this.
During Christ's time on Earth, he often dealt with the legalistic views of the Pharisees. Interestingly, many of the traditions they passed off as law were originally set up to serve as protection from violating the actual Law. The founding fathers of the Pharisees set fences around the commandments so that they wouldn't even come close to error. This same mentality is what drives many Christians today, as seen in this thread.
While I believe it's necessary for every Christian to set personal extra-Biblical boundaries to keep them on the straight and narrow, it is wrong to then turn around and try to enforce those personal boundaries on others. It's a sin (IMO) to say or imply that something is set down in scripture when it is not. If it's good enough for God Almighty, Lord and Creator not to command something, or to purposely leave something to the judgement of the individual, why then do those who claim to be following His teaching believe it's their job to add to His word or violate one of the Bibles themes?
_____________________________
Heartland Rocks!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EK9opsMo0jg
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/26/2008 8:58:38 AM
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AmplifiedFaith
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Yeah, this is just my opinion. You don't have to agree with me.
There is nothing wrong with writing about your wife and kids 'cause if you are doing it for the right reason then it could bring glory to Christ.
Here is something else to discuss.....
I think that when you go to a concert the Christian artist should try and conect the audience with Christ instead of drawing the attention to themselves.
_____________________________
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understandings, in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will make your paths straight.
Proverbs 3:4-5
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/26/2008 9:35:02 AM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmplifiedFaith
I think that when you go to a concert the Christian artist should try and conect the audience with Christ instead of drawing the attention to themselves.
That's a matter of the heart, though. There's no way for us to really know if someone is trying to glorify God or themselves. God has to sort that out. I mean, when David was dancing around in the steet in his underwear, I don't think everybody thought he was doing it for the Lord. But he was.
_____________________________
Heartland Rocks!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EK9opsMo0jg
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