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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/26/2008 10:07:04 AM
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Market42Fan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
Market42Fan,
quote:
I'm thinking of another Scripture referring to this topic in 1 Corinthians 6:12.
What I gather from that is that even though some things are permissible for the Christian, the critical issue is whether or not a particular thing is beneficial.
If that was really what Paul was trying to say there, then that would mean prostitution would be OK for Christians. I believe that there, he was turning the Corinthians own "I'm saved so I can do whatever I want" argument against them, especially in the area of sexual immorality. There's no hint of addressing secular music here.
Oops, bad exegesis on my part, and your point is right on. The point I was attempting to make was about whether or not listening to secular music would ultimately be beneficial to their walk. To be precise, I'm thinking the overriding issue will be what message is communicated and what the worldview conveyed in the song is.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/26/2008 10:30:26 AM
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MusicianDad
Posts: 425
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Market42Fan
To be precise, I'm thinking the overriding issue will be what message is communicated and what the worldview conveyed in the song is.
If you're talking about what choices a believer should make, then yes, that should be taken into consideration by the believer himself. If you are talking about whether listening to "secular" music should be outlawed for everyone by those who are wiser, have authority, or just have control issues, then no. It's the same kind of legalism the Pharisees practiced.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 10:45:36 AM
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Market42Fan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MusicianDad
quote:
ORIGINAL: Market42Fan
To be precise, I'm thinking the overriding issue will be what message is communicated and what the worldview conveyed in the song is.
If you're talking about what choices a believer should make, then yes, that should be taken into consideration by the believer himself. If you are talking about whether listening to "secular" music should be outlawed for everyone by those who are wiser, have authority, or just have control issues, then no. It's the same kind of legalism the Pharisees practiced.
The first statement was my intent.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 11:11:02 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
I find it interesting that Paul left it to the mature believer to be resposible towards their weaker brother/sister.
Amen.
quote:
He never says "don't ever eat meat from idols because it causes some to stumble".
No, but if there is a chance it would cause someone to stumble, then it should not be done.
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This is exactly the tack some legalists have taken in thread, however. Not only have they decided what is wrongful for them to do in regards to weaker Christians, they have decided what's wrong for everybody else and are descending from on high to straighten things out. What arrogance! The Pharisees live!
I think it is important to note that if someone is explaining why something is unprofitable, with a valid explaination, and sound reason... that in and of itself is not what a legalist/Pharisee does. A legalist/pharisee makes such details a matter of salvation, and usurps these things to a level equal with or greater than faith in Christ, or in some way turns salvation into an acheivement of our own works.
There is nothing wrong w/ sincerely and openly giving godly council on a matter. We ought to live holy lives, and if we are going to live holy lives, we ought to discuss and decide what is profitable, and what is not... what is good for us, and what is not good for us. A legalist does this, but usurps these deeds (plural) over the deed (singular) of God--that is, His finished work on the cross.
< Message edited by d4nnyb0y02 -- 10/27/2008 11:29:41 AM >
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(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 11:23:17 AM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmplifiedFaith
So what about Philippians 4:8.....
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.(NIV)
it would seem to me that this verse is actually about engaging with things - according to this list - before dismissing. it would seem to indicate that we are looking for aspects that are true, noble, right, etc. and that is not about whoatsoever things are acceptable within the christian sub-culture...
quote:
ORIGINAL: AmplifiedFaith
What drives me crazy is when you have these "christian bands" who sing all these songs that are no different from the "worlds" music. We as Christians are not suppost to conform to the pattern of this world (Romans 12:2).
isn't "conforming to the pattern of this world" about mind-sets, attitudes, and intentions? after all, we dress much the same, work in the same places, lice in the same types of houses, drive the same kinds of cars. the "pattern" isn't so much referring to the material aspects of culture as it is referring to the spiritual aspects of life. read it as living in the same way, or living with the same mind-set or goals or motivations.
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And when people cease to believe that there is good and evil
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So that they still know how to say: this is true and that is false.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 11:32:17 AM
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techne
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AmplifiedFaith
That is not what I am saying.....I just think that if they are considered a christian band that they should sing songs that bring honor and glory to Christ.
if the earth is the L-rd's and all the fullness thereof, doesn't it follow that all of human existence is worthy of exploration. aren't there entire sections of the bible that don't overtly "bring honour and glory to G-d"? i mean, even for "christian bands" aren't there many other subjects worthy of exploration? the bible has numerous subjects in it. look at proverbs, ecclesiastes, song of songs...all of these address and explore other subjects.
is it the number of JPMs that makes a song worthy, or is it the expression of Truth? or is it beauty? does not any musician glorify G-d when he uses the gift he was given (and which G-d gave without any proviso that they must be a christian when exercising that gift)?
anyway, when did "christian" become an adjective, instead of a noun?
_____________________________
And when people cease to believe that there is good and evil
Only beauty will call to them and save them
So that they still know how to say: this is true and that is false.
One more day by Czeslaw Milosz
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 12:23:29 PM
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uncabeeil
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I can't believe there are three threads on this same topic. Hasn't it been beaten to death yet folks?
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 12:46:48 PM
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techne
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evidently not...
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And when people cease to believe that there is good and evil
Only beauty will call to them and save them
So that they still know how to say: this is true and that is false.
One more day by Czeslaw Milosz
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 12:51:03 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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Probably not till the Lord comes back. Until then, I imagine we'll talk about it again. :) I've never discussed it on these forums before, though.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 1:04:12 PM
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Roberta_
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I listen to both, but if I had to choose one or the other, I'd choose Christian.
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 1:34:39 PM
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mapachito13
Posts: 2543
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pryze
wow... it is very interesting to se diffrent points here and it brings me back to what the person quoted on my blog at www.youngpryze.blogspot.com,....it is simply a matter of the heart...see my spirit kind of yearned me away from even enjoying secular music and I thank God for that you see music was a big part of my life before JESUS it was the thing that kind of filled my void you know...I was a rapper and i loved rap music and hip hop anything else sounded weird..i could basically hear a song and embody that image or personality and start talking or behaving like that, yea it was a big problem...see even though i lived in the suburbs and my parents were godly parents the devil was using that music to fuel and teach me a culture that was foreign to me....before I knew it I was joining a gang in one of the most notorious streets in new jersey...and honestly, i loved it. I felt like this was truly me and thats how life carried on for a couple of years. Looking back I can see how God was looking out for me, i was almost never around when something big happened, never involved in a crime(though i wanted to be)......to make a long story short the God who heard my moms prayers as I was showing signs of rebellion answered. When Christ uprooted my life and removed the scales that had been covering my eyes ....one of the first major life changes was all of the sudden losing the capabilitie and understanding of all secular music
So the "devil music" makes us do bad things? What a great way to release ourselves from the personal responsibility for our choices! All my problems are because I might listen to secular music? Good, I have an out! God won't hold me responsible for my own choices!
If giving up secular music keeps you focused on God, good for you! I commend you in your desire to follow the Lord! We'll disagree on this point and I think I'm going to boycott the next secular vs. Christian music thread that comes around. It's not like I am going to say anything different from the twenty previous threads concerning this subject anyway.
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"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 4:07:20 PM
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kernsfamily
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quote:
No, but if there is a chance it would cause someone to stumble, then it should not be done.
walk out of your house, get the mail....then walk back in...
even then, there's a CHANCE it would cause SOMEONE to "stumble"....(and, Iam not talking about stumbling over the cracked sidewalk)....
Driving to church CAN make someone else "stumble"...
the list of possibilities are ENDLESS...
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Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/27/2008 7:27:03 PM
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MusicianDad
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
No, but if there is a chance it would cause someone to stumble, then it should not be done.
Not according to the Bible. There was, in fact, a chance for someone to stumble regarding the issue of eating certain foods. Paul does not take the legalistic view, as do you, that since there could be a chance of someone sinning, no-one was to eat such food. He leaves it up to the individual to access the situation and act in a fitting manner. Again, saying the Bible says something that it does not say is expressly forbidden by the Holy Spirit through the writers themselves in the scriptues.
_____________________________
Heartland Rocks!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=EK9opsMo0jg
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RE: christian music vs. secular music - 10/29/2008 6:25:56 PM
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saraimay75
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Your view that it is lawful? I agree.
No, my view that this passage is speaking about not causing those with weaker faiths to stumble because of what we find acceptable.
Okay, if that is the case, what if your listening to secular music causes those of "weaker faith" to stumble? Perhaps that is why I choose not to listen to secular music, in part, because I do not wish to setup a stumbling block for those of weaker faith, knowing that I partake in secular music.
I am a woman, that alone can cause a man to stumble. What do you suggest I do???
I partake of secular music, some Stevie Wonder, Carol King, James Taylor, Nat King Cole & Mozart...I also listen to Christan music Third Day, Jeremy Camp, Mary Mary, Chris Tomlin.
People NEED to start taking personal responsibity and stop blaming others "Oh, it was their music that caused me to stumble"
< Message edited by saraimay75 -- 10/29/2008 6:34:03 PM >
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