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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 2:21:55 AM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
You are aware that there are christians voting for Obama as well, are you not? And yes, REAL christians who go to real churches.
I think everyone is aware of this; it's just that a number of us cannot figure out why.
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Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 2:41:39 AM
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luvmy3kids
Posts: 150
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
All about America, Hardly. I have way more respect for Christians outside of America living in places like China, Arab Countries, etc then I do for the American Church. We are lukewarm and can't seem to find the courage to say that anything is wrong. We are just so lazy. If Obama Wins it will be an inditment against the Church. I will lay that win souly on doorstep of the church that sat back and did nothing. I will set that on the doorsetp of the church that was more instersted in being popular then right. I will set that on the doorstep of the church that decided that the Bible was no longer relevent and practical and turned to polling and research to tell it how to do church. I will set that on the doorstep of the church that decided that 'unity' means holding hands with everyone from the gay rights and abortion movement to false relgions.
Go ahead and tell me how evil and judgemental that statement is. I firmly believe it. And I firmly believe that if he wins then God will be answering the prayer of Christians around the world for persection to come on the American Church. And He would be Right and Just to Chasten us. We are Lukewarm and for that we should be chastened. God is in His Mercy has held off for whatever reason but like Isreal we may be getting our wish of a King, dispite the warning we have been given.
I am not going to judge you it's not my place..........the only thing I can say is how very sad.
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Luvmy3Kids
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 8:26:03 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1950
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
You are aware that there are christians voting for Obama as well, are you not? And yes, REAL christians who go to real churches.
As opposed to fake Christians that go to imaginary churches?
I think most of us who will not vote for Obama are well aware of the fact that some "real Christians" are going to vote for Obama. We think they have been deceived. When your brother or sister has come under the influence of a con man, you do everything you can to try to get them to change their ways before its too late.
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America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 8:39:54 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1749
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: luvmy3kids
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
All about America, Hardly. I have way more respect for Christians outside of America living in places like China, Arab Countries, etc then I do for the American Church. We are lukewarm and can't seem to find the courage to say that anything is wrong. We are just so lazy. If Obama Wins it will be an inditment against the Church. I will lay that win souly on doorstep of the church that sat back and did nothing. I will set that on the doorsetp of the church that was more instersted in being popular then right. I will set that on the doorstep of the church that decided that the Bible was no longer relevent and practical and turned to polling and research to tell it how to do church. I will set that on the doorstep of the church that decided that 'unity' means holding hands with everyone from the gay rights and abortion movement to false relgions.
Go ahead and tell me how evil and judgemental that statement is. I firmly believe it. And I firmly believe that if he wins then God will be answering the prayer of Christians around the world for persection to come on the American Church. And He would be Right and Just to Chasten us. We are Lukewarm and for that we should be chastened. God is in His Mercy has held off for whatever reason but like Isreal we may be getting our wish of a King, dispite the warning we have been given.
I am not going to judge you it's not my place..........the only thing I can say is how very sad.
What's so sad? The fact that Sue is correct in her assessment of the American church? Or that she's not united with the world, holding hands and singing koom bye ya.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 9:12:23 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
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quote:
And I firmly believe that if he wins then God will be answering the prayer of Christians around the world for persection to come on the American Church. And He would be Right and Just to Chasten us.
Great Post Sue! Amen.
One thing to keep in mind. God disciplines his own. Look at the big picture. The church has been infiltrated with many wolves. The sheep in many area - maybe most? - are sleeping. When persecution has occured over the years and countries one thing occurs. The wolves flee!!!! They cannot endure becuase they don't have Christ.
Then once we are cleansed and have repented of our sins God is going to reward us and His name will be restored.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 9:50:52 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1533
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It ain't over till it's over.
Singing victory before it actually materializes is NEVER wise.
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"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 9:54:17 AM
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rnershigh
Posts: 869
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From: somewhere over the rainbow
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Very true. I think I'll just wait until election results are in.  I ignore the polls.
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O Grave! where is thy Victory?
O Death! where is thy Sting?
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 9:59:28 AM
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Acts29
Posts: 374
Joined: 1/14/2007
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If he has such a lead for a big victory then I question the way he spends money. It seems to me he wasted millions of dollars last night on his informercial if he has such a sure win. Now I am really concerned about our National budget and how he will spend that money.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 10:04:59 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Acts29
If he has such a lead for a big victory then I question the way he spends money. It seems to me he wasted millions of dollars last night on his informercial if he has such a sure win. Now I am really concerned about our National budget and how he will spend that money.
This post gets a  !
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We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 10:09:37 AM
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EStan
Posts: 441
Joined: 7/27/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
And I firmly believe that if he wins then God will be answering the prayer of Christians around the world for persection to come on the American Church. And He would be Right and Just to Chasten us.
Great Post Sue! Amen.
One thing to keep in mind. God disciplines his own. Look at the big picture. The church has been infiltrated with many wolves. The sheep in many area - maybe most? - are sleeping. When persecution has occured over the years and countries one thing occurs. The wolves flee!!!! They cannot endure becuase they don't have Christ.
Then once we are cleansed and have repented of our sins God is going to reward us and His name will be restored.
I second that Amen. I'm reminded of Hebrews ch 12:
And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. (Hebrews 12:5-13 ESV)
I heard a preacher put it this way once: when God gives you a whoopin', thank Him for it, and pray that you don't need another one. 
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Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 12:05:39 PM
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ServantsWife
Posts: 4
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My question is if you stand on God's Words, and believe the Bible, HOW can you vote for Obama & all that he stands for (partial birth abortions, right for homosexuals, etc)? In my humble opinion, if Jesus would ask you to justify your vote based on His Word, you could not do that.
Gods Love & Blessings to you...
and God have Mercy on us Nov. 4th.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 9:56:30 PM
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todd_t
Posts: 1619
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: The North Woods
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quote:
They are all over the place, and I don't have much confidence in ANY of them.
Which is why you take the average of a range of polls. Not just one.
quote:
as well as the Bradley effect in which black candidates poll much higher than they actually perform
Here's my two main problems with the so-called "Bradley Effect":
a) Tom Bradley, the guy the effect was named after, lost his election for CA governor over a quarter-century ago. Not exactly a up-to-date indicator on voter preferences.
b) Let's say the "Bradley Effect" is true. Considering that it's chief driver is voter racism, is this truly something that McCain fans want to hope for? That there's enough bigots out there to swing the election to their man at the final minute?
< Message edited by todd_t -- 10/30/2008 10:03:39 PM >
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 10:37:17 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
They are all over the place, and I don't have much confidence in ANY of them.
Which is why you take the average of a range of polls. Not just one.
quote:
as well as the Bradley effect in which black candidates poll much higher than they actually perform
Here's my two main problems with the so-called "Bradley Effect":
a) Tom Bradley, the guy the effect was named after, lost his election for CA governor over a quarter-century ago. Not exactly a up-to-date indicator on voter preferences.
b) Let's say the "Bradley Effect" is true. Considering that it's chief driver is voter racism, is this truly something that McCain fans want to hope for? That there's enough bigots out there to swing the election to their man at the final minute?
a) All of the names here are black Americans:
Harold Washington in the 1983 Chicago mayoral race polled 14 points ahead three days before election. He won by 4 points.
Jesse Jackson in the 1988 Dem presidential primary was polling as carrying 1/3 of the white vote. He actually carried only 1/4 and lost the primary.
David Dinkins in the 1989 NY mayoral race polled 15 points ahead, but won by only 2 points.
Douglas Wilder in the 1989 Virginia gubernatorial race polled 9 points ahead in pre-election polls. He won by half-a-point.
Read more at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect
Of course this is a TREND and not a RULE, but with a candidate as radical and divisive as Barack 0bama, it would make sense that the Bradley effect will come into play. Heck, I'm nervous even driving around with McCain/Palin stickers on my car and worry about vandalism to my home because of my yard signs. I personally don't care much what a smelly old pollster thinks of me, but I can understand why some people would say "0bama" when they will actually pull the lever for McCain.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 11:00:20 PM
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sue244
Posts: 410
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Colorado
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
ORIGINAL: luvmy3kids
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
All about America, Hardly. I have way more respect for Christians outside of America living in places like China, Arab Countries, etc then I do for the American Church. We are lukewarm and can't seem to find the courage to say that anything is wrong. We are just so lazy. If Obama Wins it will be an inditment against the Church. I will lay that win souly on doorstep of the church that sat back and did nothing. I will set that on the doorsetp of the church that was more instersted in being popular then right. I will set that on the doorstep of the church that decided that the Bible was no longer relevent and practical and turned to polling and research to tell it how to do church. I will set that on the doorstep of the church that decided that 'unity' means holding hands with everyone from the gay rights and abortion movement to false relgions.
Go ahead and tell me how evil and judgemental that statement is. I firmly believe it. And I firmly believe that if he wins then God will be answering the prayer of Christians around the world for persection to come on the American Church. And He would be Right and Just to Chasten us. We are Lukewarm and for that we should be chastened. God is in His Mercy has held off for whatever reason but like Isreal we may be getting our wish of a King, dispite the warning we have been given.
I am not going to judge you it's not my place..........the only thing I can say is how very sad.
What's so sad? The fact that Sue is correct in her assessment of the American church? Or that she's not united with the world, holding hands and singing koom bye ya.
Thanks you for your defense. I knew my post would drive some people crazy but I have never been ahsamed to call things like I see them. What is truly sad is we have come to a point where those that point out truth are attacked whild those that hold hands with the world and sing kum bye ah are held in esteme.
_____________________________
"Indeed I Tremble for this country when I reflect that God is Just and His Justice cannot Sleep Forever"
Jefferson
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Churchill
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 11:29:48 PM
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nuclear_sidewalk
Posts: 39
Joined: 6/8/2008
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Call it Bradley Effect or something else, but people will tell Pollsters whatever they think is the most Politically Correct answer.
So you have a lot of people saying they'd never consider race as an option in an election, yet people will. That doesn't make it right, but I wouldn't say that I'd cry a tear over Obama's numbers going down.
A good friend of mine told me that he and his wife are voting for Obama. I'm disappointed, but as they're good friends, it's not something to whine about. I do feel, however, that active bible-believing Christians will tend *not* to vote for him. (as social issues and morality will rank quite highly with them) Folks of the Liberation Theology persuasion, on the other hand, would have no issues. All that being said, villainizing candidates or the people who vote for them does absolutely no good. Both sides have their despicable extremes, the system is of this world, and we must all essentially 'Pick our Poison'.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 11:47:11 PM
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Johnny_
Posts: 395
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
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I think everyone should make their voices heard regardless of what the polls says, every vote certainly counts. It is not over until the fat lady sings (no offense to fat people). Whether you a Republican, Democrat, Independent, or crossing party lines (me), I urge you to go to the polls on Tuesday and vote. I think in some states, you can also vote early.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/30/2008 11:53:10 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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This post demonstrates exactly why church and state do not mix. The church is not meant to run the government. Jesus was not sent to take over the government. He was sent to save us all. He did not send the Apostles out to take over governments, he sent them out to spread the good news. There obviously was a reason Jesus didn't take over the government, which we do not know. We do know, the government is not going to lead anyone to the Salvation we have in Christ.
The government was not meant to only represent a select elite group of people. It is suppose to represent "all the people", I say again "all the people", whether we like their morals, sexual preference, race, gender, religion, lack of religion etc.. We live in a Democracy where the majority rules, like it or not. Do any of us really think who we vote for will make us any more righteous or bring us closer to God. If you do you are already lost and I pray you will find your way home. It doesn't matter who we vote for God is in control. It is rude, arrogant and stupid to sit back and basically judge people you know nothing about with indignant righteousness, because they see the world differently than you. I was always taught when you point your finger at someone else, you have three pointing back at you.
We as Christians should not be trying to change the country through politics. If we all were reaching out and sharing with those who are non-believers like we are suppose to be doing, then maybe, just maybe this country would shape into the kind of country we want. How many non-believers, desperate young women, drug addicts etc. do you share God's word with on a daily basis. When was the last time you brought one these people to a church service and introduced him/her to the other brother's and sister's? If we all do what we are suppose to do instead challenging each other's faith, salvation etc., I'm sure this world would be a better place. If I was a non-believer and came and checked out this forum, I would not walk, but run as far from us as possible. I would not think this was a Christian forum at all. We are the ones who have to change this country and it's not going to get done through politics and if we are petty, insulting, disrespectful etc. to each other. How can any of us here call ourselves an example of a Christian with this kind of behavior going on? 
One more thing, why is it I never see the majority of you in other forums like the General Faith or Mental Health forum? There are a lot of people out there right on this forum looking for help or are you only interested in stirring up trouble?
< Message edited by campbe33 -- 10/31/2008 12:38:51 AM >
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 1:05:39 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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Amazing no snide replies, yet.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 1:16:13 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I will reply, you are wrong. Being a Christian is not just a little sub-culture. It is supposed to be who you are, and have an impact on everything you do. You cannot, be secular and Christian. What business does light have with the darkness?
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
Amazing no snide replies, yet.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 1:52:24 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I will reply, you are wrong. Being a Christian is not just a little sub-culture. It is supposed to be who you are, and have an impact on everything you do. You cannot, be secular and Christian. What business does light have with the darkness?
We are a sub-culture when we are referred to as a group, just like the Muslims, Hindu's, Buddhist etc.. Christians do not represent the entire population of this country. There are other sub-cultures in this country that deserve or rather have the right to be represented too. We cannot suppress the rights of everyone to suit our own beliefs. The President cannot think about and apply only Christian morals to every decision he makes without considering the rights of all the other millions of people living in the U.S.. If he did we would have a Theocracy and would be just like the Muslim countries we hold so much disdain for. I don't think that's what the Founding Fathers of this nation intended.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 1:54:15 AM
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Sonrise
Posts: 163
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
You are aware that there are christians voting for Obama as well, are you not? And yes, REAL christians who go to real churches.
Matthew 24:24 (NIV) 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 2:00:26 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
quote:
ORIGINAL: PaleHawkWoman
You are aware that there are christians voting for Obama as well, are you not? And yes, REAL christians who go to real churches.
Matthew 24:24 (NIV) 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
I guess those who vote for Obama have nothing to worry about, since he is just a man and not a messiah or prophet. He also hasn't performed any signs or wonders. So, who were you referring too?
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 2:03:09 AM
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Sonrise
Posts: 163
Joined: 5/19/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I will reply, you are wrong. Being a Christian is not just a little sub-culture. It is supposed to be who you are, and have an impact on everything you do. You cannot, be secular and Christian. What business does light have with the darkness?
We are a sub-culture when we are referred to as a group, just like the Muslims, Hindu's, Buddhist etc.. Christians do not represent the entire population of this country. There are other sub-cultures in this country that deserve or rather have the right to be represented too. We cannot suppress the rights of everyone to suit our own beliefs. The President cannot think about and apply only Christian morals to every decision he makes without considering the rights of all the other millions of people living in the U.S.. If he did we would have a Theocracy and would be just like the Muslim countries we hold so much disdain for. I don't think that's what the Founding Fathers of this nation intended.
So other "groups" can vote their interests, i.e homosexual community and pro-abortionists, but we as Christians can't? No ones vote is being suppressed but I have just as much of a right to advocate positions that I deem to line up with God's word. To not do so, would be a failure on my part.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 2:29:26 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
We are a sub-culture when we are referred to as a group, just like the Muslims, Hindu's, Buddhist etc.. Christians do not represent the entire population of this country. There are other sub-cultures in this country that deserve or rather have the right to be represented too. We cannot suppress the rights of everyone to suit our own beliefs. The President cannot think about and apply only Christian morals to every decision he makes without considering the rights of all the other millions of people living in the U.S.. If he did we would have a Theocracy and would be just like the Muslim countries we hold so much disdain for. I don't think that's what the Founding Fathers of this nation intended.
So other "groups" can vote their interests, i.e homosexual community and pro-abortionists, but we as Christians can't? No ones vote is being suppressed but I have just as much of a right to advocate positions that I deem to line up with God's word. To not do so, would be a failure on my part.
Where do I say Christians can't vote for their own interest? I am not even talking about voting. You totally overshot the point I was making.
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