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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 8:38:41 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/30/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
This post demonstrates exactly why church and state do not mix. The church is not meant to run the government. Jesus was not sent to take over the government. He was sent to save us all. He did not send the Apostles out to take over governments, he sent them out to spread the good news. There obviously was a reason Jesus didn't take over the government, which we do not know. We do know, the government is not going to lead anyone to the Salvation we have in Christ.
The government was not meant to only represent a select elite group of people. It is suppose to represent "all the people", I say again "all the people", whether we like their morals, sexual preference, race, gender, religion, lack of religion etc.. We live in a Democracy where the majority rules, like it or not. Do any of us really think who we vote for will make us any more righteous or bring us closer to God. If you do you are already lost and I pray you will find your way home. It doesn't matter who we vote for God is in control. It is rude, arrogant and stupid to sit back and basically judge people you know nothing about with indignant righteousness, because they see the world differently than you. I was always taught when you point your finger at someone else, you have three pointing back at you.
Here is where you are wrong and exceedingly so.
To say that this country is to be ruled by all types of peoples (morals , sex preference, religion) is to say that all ideas are equal and valid. They are not. That is the tolerance lie that is florishing today and it seems you have bought into it as many other Christians have.
Homosexuals will advance laws that will create preferential treatement for their ideas and they are bad for families. This is common sense and biblical.
To say that church and state do not mix would mean you are a supporter of the Russian constitution, not the U.S. constitution. I suggest you look these up.
It also means you would disagree with these great and brilliant people :
Abraham Lincoln:
Those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord.
George Washington:
Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports.
William Penn:
If we will not be governed by God, we must be governed by tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson:
Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just.
Benjamin Franklin:
Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens.
John Adams:
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.
Noah Webster:
The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and law... All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.
Noah Webster:
Almost all the civil liberty now enjoyed in the world owes its origin to the principles of the Christian religion.
George Washington:
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
George Washington:
It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor.
Benjamin Rush, Founding Father:
I have alternatively been called an Aristocrat or a Democrat. I am neither. I am a Christocrat!
Thomas Jefferson:
And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis - a conviction in the minds of people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep forever.
James Madison:
We have staked the whole future of America's civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all our political institutions ...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.
President John Adams:
The highest story of the American Revolution is this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.
Patrick Henry:
It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ.
President George Washington, September 17th, 1796:
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
United States Supreme Court, 1844:
Why may not the Bible, and especially the New Testament be read and taught as a divine revelation in the school? Where can the purest principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the New Testament?
First Chief Justice of Supreme Court John Jay:
Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.
President Andrew Jackson:
The Bible is the Rock on which this Republic rests.
The people who vote for Obama will most likely disagree with these quotes.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 10:08:35 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1950
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
One more thing, why is it I never see the majority of you in other forums like the General Faith or Mental Health forum? There are a lot of people out there right on this forum looking for help or are you only interested in stirring up trouble?
I see a lot of the people participating in the election threads elsewhere on the forums. You only joined less than a month ago. Many of us have been around for quite a long time, through more than one presidential election cycle.
EDITED TO ADD: And, I think it's really ironic that you, campbe33, would make this comment, since you have focused the majority of your posts recently in the election threads. Your 25 most recent posts were in election threads; out of your 50 most recent posts, 44 were in election threads.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 10:35:59 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
One more thing, why is it I never see the majority of you in other forums like the General Faith or Mental Health forum? There are a lot of people out there right on this forum looking for help or are you only interested in stirring up trouble?
I see a lot of the people participating in the election threads elsewhere on the forums. You only joined less than a month ago. Many of us have been around for quite a long time, through more than one presidential election cycle.
EDITED TO ADD: And, I think it's really ironic that you, campbe33, would make this comment, since you have focused the majority of your posts recently in the election threads. Your 25 most recent posts were in election threads; out of your 50 most recent posts, 44 were in election threads.
I know I've been around since the Elian Gonzales days. This is my third presidential election on these boards. I do have to say that it's the most divisive one here than the other two. I know I tend to post a lot in a particular area for a while then move on to a different subject matter depending on my interests at the time.
Oh and back in the old days of the forum on the old Crosswalk, the theology forum was the most heated and debated. That was before the one stop threads. 
Yup. Back in the olden days, why, I can remember... 
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 10:58:36 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
One more thing, why is it I never see the majority of you in other forums like the General Faith or Mental Health forum? There are a lot of people out there right on this forum looking for help or are you only interested in stirring up trouble?
I see a lot of the people participating in the election threads elsewhere on the forums. You only joined less than a month ago. Many of us have been around for quite a long time, through more than one presidential election cycle.
EDITED TO ADD: And, I think it's really ironic that you, campbe33, would make this comment, since you have focused the majority of your posts recently in the election threads. Your 25 most recent posts were in election threads; out of your 50 most recent posts, 44 were in election threads.
I know I've been around since the Elian Gonzales days. This is my third presidential election on these boards. I do have to say that it's the most divisive one here than the other two. I know I tend to post a lot in a particular area for a while then move on to a different subject matter depending on my interests at the time.
Oh and back in the old days of the forum on the old Crosswalk, the theology forum was the most heated and debated. That was before the one stop threads.
Yeah, one-stops are one of the worst thing about these forums. It is ridiculous to assume that all conversations about a subject can be done in one big cesspool of a thread. Can you imagine a marriage like that? "Honey, we need to talk about our budget". "Sorry dear, we talked about that last month, please go back and recall everything that was said". 
Anyhow... the polls are looking even better for McCain today, and there is a little shock among the 0bama media corps (read: ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN) that there are just as many Republicans voting early as Democrats, which of course doesn't fit the liberal narrative that early voting by young eager liberals was going to give their messiah a huge win.
Oh, and my ballot has now been added to the mix: I voted for McCain/Palin, voted no on all of the stupid labor union ballot initiatives, and voted yes on defining personhood as beginning at the moment of conception in Colorado. I also voted to keep conservative judges on the bench and get rid of bad (read: liberal) judges. I know it won't matter because they always keep their seats, but I did my part.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 11:13:53 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Anyhow... the polls are looking even better for McCain today, and there is a little shock among the 0bama media corps (read: ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNN) that there are just as many Republicans voting early as Democrats, which of course doesn't fit the liberal narrative that early voting by young eager liberals was going to give their messiah a huge win.
I don't think they are shocked, I think its just the part they play in this "reckoning" phase.
It happens every time . They have to start embracing reality due to the fake polling they've spread so far trying to discourage republicans.
The funny thing is the media thinks everybody has such a short term memory and can't remember these same old tactics done each time.
Phase 1. Report liberal candidate has huge lead 7-15%
Phase 2. Polls draw close near election day "oh my how did that happen!"
Phase 3. Exit polls show liberal leading "might as well not vote FL panhandlers,your guy lost!"
Phase 4. Conservative wins by 2% (this is where the media really starts shrieking)
Guliani mentioned this the other day how it happened with him, other conservatives, and of course the Bush/Kerry election. It's sort of like watching old football films of Joe Montanna doing his 2 minute drills at the end of a game.
Dejavu all over again. Just can't wait till it's over and Obama can go back to voting "not present" in his efforts to inspire change.
< Message edited by letusreason -- 10/31/2008 11:20:15 AM >
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 11:25:04 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Just can't wait till it's over and Obama can go back to voting "not present" in his efforts to inspire change.
HAHAHAHA... good one.
I seriously wonder what 0bama will do after he loses. Somehow I doubt his messiah complex will allow him to slink back into the hole he crawled out of. Of course, the haughty John Kerry (who served in Vietnam, by the way) disappeared quietly, so maybe the messiah will too.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 1:55:58 PM
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lordknowus
Posts: 2
Joined: 10/31/2008
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I cannot for the life of me understand how a Christian can believe in the word of God and be heedless of Jesus' teachings that any form or act of violence is a sin, even those committed in self defense. Could any Christians here please explain to me why they are willing to give Republicans a free pass to wage war all around the world? Do you not think that the US support for military infrastructure and public taxpayer money paying for weapon systems research and development is in direct conflict with the moral principles that Christianity is defined by? Keep in mind, I am willing to be convinced that we need to have self defensive capabilities, I just wonder if we have passed that benchmark a long time ago. Why are we spending close to one trillion dollars on the military every year in this country? Do you realize how many sick people could get treatment, how many hungry could be fed, how many desperate communities could be given opportunities for employment, how many solar panels could be built, how many windmills could be built, how many nuclear reactors could provide clean energy, how many electric cars could be built, how many factories could expand and employ more Americans if we did not waste ALL (we need some I agree) on the military. Perhaps 200 billion would be enough for our military? That budget would still be proportionately 5 times larger than our closest military competitor.
Why is Republican support for war and weapons sales to countries like Columbia, most countries in Africa, throughout the Middleeast not scrutinized. You realize the people who manufacture and sell these weapons, many of which are used to kill and herd innocent people, not only receive government contracts from the pentagon, but they all support the Republican party lock, stock and barrel.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 3:11:54 PM
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PROPHETSONG
Posts: 81
Joined: 9/21/2006
From: PHILADELPHIA
Status: offline
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The war in Iraq was waged to protect the American People. I find no biblical basis for your statement that all forms of violence is sin. When Christ threw the money changers out of the temple he did it using a whip. Was this an act of pacifism?
If all violence was sin as you claim then Jesus would have sinned in forcibly removing the money changers from the temple.
When Jesus returns it will be with all the armies of heaven behind him.{see revelations}. The saints will be with him as well, and they will be armored, and have weapons. Is this to make peace or to rage war?
Jesus also said"that the kingdom of God suffers violence, and those that take it must take it by force"
Why would the Lord use the term "by force", if the use of force was sin?
In the book of second Chronicals God ordered Neco Pharoah of Egypt to destroy the Philistines. Josiah the last righteous King of Judah, did not understand was happening and opposed Neco at Carchemesh, where his life was taken. Was God commanding Neco to sin in giving him his assignment?
Saddam Husien made this statement before the US invaded Iraq."I am ancient Babylon reborn"
Through the prophets of Israel God said that ancient Babylon would never rise again.
Hussien took an open stance against the words of this biblical prophecy, and in doing so provoked the God of heaven. If God would have allowed Saddam Husssien to continue to do this, it would have given the whole world grounds to mock the Lord and his Holy word, and the final results would have been men turning from faith in Jesus Christ.
In light of this God stirred up the U.S. to take down Saddam and his Bath party. Not only that but God in his wisdom left us a sign to verify what he did.
This way Saddam Hussien was found in a whole, disoriented, and in a panic is in line with God old testiment pattern of Judgement as written in the old testament. Basically the US was used as a tool use by God to pour out his wrath. {SEE DEUTERONOMY 28} .
In the book of Daniel the Babylonian King Nebuchanezzar was disciplined by God for his arrogance. God reduced him to the state of a wild beast, for eight years. After the end of this judgement Nebuchanezzar had a grasp of this truth."the God of Heaven and Earth owns all the nations of the Earth and puts in charge whoever he wishes."
The Lord sets up rulers, and takes them down. The fact that the US took out the leadership of a nation would suggest that God has to authorized this act, in order for Saddam to be taken out of power.
In affect Christians as a whole ascribed the act of God to man simply because they do not know their God. The Church needs to repent for not seeking the Lord as we should. I the Church were truly seeking their God then they would be able discern what God does from what man does.
Jesus also said "That their would be wars and rumors of wars increasing until he returns."Mathew 24
The war in Iraq is part of the fulfillment of this scripture. It does not matter who the president is there will be wars, because the word of Prophecy will come to pass.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lordknowus
I cannot for the life of me understand how a Christian can believe in the word of God and be heedless of Jesus' teachings that any form or act of violence is a sin, even those committed in self defense. Could any Christians here please explain to me why they are willing to give Republicans a free pass to wage war all around the world? Do you not think that the US support for military infrastructure and public taxpayer money paying for weapon systems research and development is in direct conflict with the moral principles that Christianity is defined by? Keep in mind, I am willing to be convinced that we need to have self defensive capabilities, I just wonder if we have passed that benchmark a long time ago. Why are we spending close to one trillion dollars on the military every year in this country? Do you realize how many sick people could get treatment, how many hungry could be fed, how many desperate communities could be given opportunities for employment, how many solar panels could be built, how many windmills could be built, how many nuclear reactors could provide clean energy, how many electric cars could be built, how many factories could expand and employ more Americans if we did not waste ALL (we need some I agree) on the military. Perhaps 200 billion would be enough for our military? That budget would still be proportionately 5 times larger than our closest military competitor.
Why is Republican support for war and weapons sales to countries like Columbia, most countries in Africa, throughout the Middleeast not scrutinized. You realize the people who manufacture and sell these weapons, many of which are used to kill and herd innocent people, not only receive government contracts from the pentagon, but they all support the Republican party lock, stock and barrel.
_____________________________
JER 1: 18 Today I have made you a fortified city, an iron pillar and a bronze wall to stand against the whole land--against the kings of Judah, its officials, its priests and the people of the land. WWW.PROPHETSONG.MYSITE.COM
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 5:09:30 PM
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RosieCotton
Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: The East and West Coast!
Status: offline
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social issues and education are ranked pretty high w/me, that is why i did vote for him!!!
quote:
ORIGINAL: nuclear_sidewalk
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A good friend of mine told me that he and his wife are voting for Obama. I'm disappointed, but as they're good friends, it's not something to whine about. I do feel, however, that active bible-believing Christians will tend *not* to vote for him. (as social issues a
_____________________________
The object of a new year is not that we should have a new year. It is that we should have a new soul.
--G.K. Chesterton--
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 5:14:19 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
social issues and education are ranked pretty high w/me, that is why i did vote for him!!!
So you're in favor of abortion , infanticide, and on the off chance the kid survives, putting him into a government run schools for his Kindergarten sex ed?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 5:17:59 PM
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RosieCotton
Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: The East and West Coast!
Status: offline
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lol w/Bush and his no child left behind hog wash, most every child has been left behind!!!!!
I love your rhetoric about how wonderful McSame is.......w/his views on not talking to our enemies......and leaving all the wonderful virtues of his predecessor in!
whatever......Bush and McSame and Palin all have great words to say to the Christian Right......but, did they, he actually live in the White House godly?!?!?!
I'd much rather know what i was getting myself into, then listen to a forked tongue!
_____________________________
The object of a new year is not that we should have a new year. It is that we should have a new soul.
--G.K. Chesterton--
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 5:22:14 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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Can you say "run on sentence"? 
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 5:39:58 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11449
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
Status: offline
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please keep this thread on the topic of polls and the margin between McCain and Obama. Posts about "how can a Christian support XYZ," the Iraq war, who are true Christians vs. deceived Christians, the role of the Church in society and politics, etc. all go in other threads.
Thanks!
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 5:43:31 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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Obama will win.
MSNBC says so. the polls say so.
Wednesday, when you see a lot of tears on Republican pillows, you will know I'm right.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 9:24:18 PM
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Acts29
Posts: 374
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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Apparently Obama believes he will win because he is already saying he cannot deliver everything he has promised. Arrogance is the new word for Obama
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 10:51:04 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
MSNBC says so. the polls say so.
MSNBC is so in the tank for Obama that it's almost pathetic to watch. I'd hardly call their cheerleading "expert analysis".
IMA, Why don't you just come out and admit that you voted for Obama?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 11:04:20 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
MSNBC says so. the polls say so.
MSNBC is so in the tank for Obama that it's almost pathetic to watch. I'd hardly call their cheerleading "expert analysis".
IMA, Why don't you just come out and admit that you voted for Obama?
Because she knows it was wrong.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 11:06:14 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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To be honest, Barack may still in all likelihood win the day, but he will not do so in any sort of landslide or runaway, or with anything resembling a "mandate".
Given the political climate, Obama should be mopping the floor with McCain, but it hasn't happened.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Obama is headed towards a big victory - 10/31/2008 11:11:17 PM
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huangshan
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/6/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
To be honest, Barack may still in all likelihood win the day, but he will not do so in any sort of landslide or runaway, or with anything resembling a "mandate".
Given the political climate, Obama should be mopping the floor with McCain, but it hasn't happened.....
A large number of people insist that Obama is a Muslim. As long as spam is a part of the political climate I don't see the idiot vote standing down or getting more reasonable any time soon.
And though it's pretty obvious given my political orientation where I think most of the idiots reside, by no means does any ideology have a monopoly on dummies.
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