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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 11/4/2008 2:17:41 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3417
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: a mother who let me live
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Solar, you have accused me of "believing what I want" which is "not what Scripture says" and of interpreting Scripture "to suit how we" believe.
Perhaps you missed my post in which I asked you what I had written that was not Scriptural. Here it is again, along with some of my post #53.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
When I brought up embroidery and carpentry, I took those right from the Scriptures, when it is WRITTEN that the H Spirit came upon them in order for them to use these gifts. There it is -- in the famous "black and white." To claim the those of the older Scriptures did not have the H Spirit seems to me to be elitist, especially in the face of the fact that the Scriptures say that they did have the H Spirit. The church does not have a monopoly on Him. In fact, His work in the Apostolic Scriptures were not carried out in churches at all but in synagogues, on hillsides, in fields, by the waters, and in the Temple. The H Spirit was given again in Acts in order to spead the Word to the world -- beyond their regularly-traveled area -- and in writing.
The H Spirit was not given to some in the older Scriptures then retracted. The gifts and callings of G-d are without turning back, without retraction, without repentence.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
quote:
ORIGINAL: Solarflare
You are free to believe what you want, but this is not what Scripture says and we are not free to interpret to suit how we belive.
Respectfully.....but adamantly.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
A flat statement just does not work, Solar. Which part or parts, then, of what I wrote are unscriptural and how?
This one?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Many of us are disagreeing, many of us are writing that another is wrong, yet when they try to explain what they see as working of the H Spirit, they are often writing what the one they disagree with has already written, just writing the same things using other words.
This one?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I know very well how the H Spirit has worked within me, how He has moved, how He has provoked, how He has given to me in order that I may give..
This one?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
When I brought up embroidery and carpentry, I took those right from the Scriptures, when it is WRITTEN that the H Spirit came upon them in order for them to use these gifts. There it is -- in the famous "black and white." To claim the those of the older Scriptures did not have the H Spirit seems to me to be elitist, especially in the face of the fact that the Scriptures say that they did have the H Spirit.
This one?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
The church does not have a monopoly on Him. In fact, His work in the Apostolic Scriptures were not carried out in churches at all but in synagogues, on hillsides, in fields, by the waters, and in the Temple. The H Spirit was given again in Acts in order to spead the Word to the world -- beyond their regularly-traveled area -- and in writing. .
This one?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
The H Spirit was not given to some in the older Scriptures then retracted. The gifts and callings of G-d are without turning back, without retraction, without repentence.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 11/4/2008 3:53:36 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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What you SAY I said:
quote:
Solar, you have accused me of "believing what I want" which is "not what Scripture says" and of interpreting Scripture "to suit how we" believe.
What I ACTUALLY said:
quote:
You are free to believe what you want, but this is not what Scripture says and we are not free to interpret to suit how we belive.
Respectfully.....but adamantly.
I stand by what I posted. What you describe are NOT Spiritual gifts.
The OP (thank you Rami) has clarified what is under discussion. Spiritual gifts, as per the NT, as per the OP's Scripture references. Please understand Covaan that I am not ever trying to clarify what I personally believe about anything anywhere. I will always defend what Scripture clearly teaches...not my opinion on it. The NT lists only certain gifts as Spiritual Gifts......and there is a world of difference between the Holy Spirit resting on someone and being inside of someone. And as someone else pointed out, there are instances of the Holy Spirit resting on someone in the NT...ie. Jesus...but He was also filled with the Holy Spirit.
In the OT, even if the spirit is described as being inside, it is always with reference to a particular aspect of the working of that Spirit ie. wisdom...we now have the fulness of the Holy Spirit inside of us to the measure we allow Him to work in us. And lots more could be added to this, but hey, it is in the Bible.
< Message edited by solarflare -- 11/4/2008 4:23:20 PM >
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 11/4/2008 4:24:59 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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quote:
Okay, Solar. I understand that you do not want to back up what you said by pointing out how I did what you accused me of doing. No problem. We will all survive!
You know, I'm still here and I really don't see how you can say that after what I just posted. I was doing my best to explain....sorry you can't see that.
One more thing, the question was actually : Do non-Christians have Spiritual gifts?
Not, what are the Spiritual gifts?
My answer: NO! Non-Chrisitians do not have Holy Spirit Spiritual gifts for all the reasons I already posted.
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 11/4/2008 5:31:23 PM
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Kath
Posts: 16991
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
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I hope that means we are moving on.
(or in other words, Lets move on please)
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 11/4/2008 6:25:47 PM
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delete123
Posts: 994
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: offline
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My personal belief and also what is written is that: No non Christians do not have spiritual gift. Spiritual gifts are imparted only from the Holy Spirit.
God does give everyone talents and does judge us in how we use them, or if we bury them in the sand.
However Spiritual gifts are reserved for the believers. A non believer can not receive the Lord's spiritual gifts unless they believe in Him.
A non believer's "spiritual gift's" in this respect are not from Our God.
Just my two cents
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RE: Do Non-Christians Have Spiritual Gifts? - 11/6/2008 4:14:32 PM
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mrrawhaley
Posts: 1
Joined: 7/28/2007
Status: offline
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I'm no Bible scholar, but I think the Greek language might be able to shed some light on the issue. The word Paul uses in his epistles is charisma, which means "gift." This word also has the same root as the word Paul uses for "grace," which is charis. Like their Greek counterparts, the concepts of grace and gift are quite similar: both are given freely from one person to another.
We can think about the gift-giving process in a physical sense to try to obtain some understanding about what it means to undergo spiritual gift-giving. Suppose I offer you $100. I am offering a gift to you. But in order for the entire exchange to actually occur -- for you to have that $100 -- you must actually accept it from me. If you decline, (1) you're crazy and (2) you don't receive the gift.
And I believe it is so with the spiritual gift-giving of our gracious God. The spiritual gifts are offered freely unto all, but not everyone will get them because they choose not to accept the Spirit. The hand of God makes the offer, but those living in darkness push it aside. So to answer the original question that was proposed, I would say that non-Christians do not have spiritual gifts.
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