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Evangelicals For Obama, How Could that Be? - 10/31/2008 12:38:21 PM
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stormin53
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I read this post from a blog and I just had to share it.
The responses to each can be read here:
http://www.calvinfox.com/blog/index.php?/archives/1679-EVANGELICALS-FOR-OBAMA-HOW-COULD-THAT-BE.html#extended
1. Many younger Evangelicals believe Justice is the top priority for Christians.
2. Many younger Evangelicals believe Justice includes Social Justice and Economic Justice. The first addresses matters such as hate crimes (especially against homosexuals), discrimination and racism (especially against African-Americans and illegal Hispanic immigrants), homophobia (especially against “Gay Marriage”) and women’s rights (especially the right to chose abortion). The second addresses poverty issues, especially health insurance, housing, and employment for all. There are many Justice Issues like these which we must pursue.
3. Many younger Evangelicals believe The Gospel is about God’s love for the marginalized and oppressed.
4. Younger Evangelicals believe God’s love calls for all of us to be concerned and militant about these Justice Issues as defined in #2 above
5. Many younger Evangelicals are convinced that God’s Kingdom is a world in which there is no injustice (and no war in Iraq!) and as disciples of Christ we are to build that Kingdom.
6. Many younger Evangelicals believe Civil Government on all levels is the primary instrument by which Social and Economic Justice (and the immediate end of the Iraq War) will be achieved. They believe the President, Congress and the Supreme Court can make it all happen. They believe Civil Government has a major active role is establishing the Kingdom of God in this world.
7. Many younger Evangelicals believe the Kingdom of God and Justice as they define that is most likely to progress if Mr Obama and the Democrats win the next Election and the control of all branches of Federal Government. Hence they are voting Democrat.
I found it very interesting and I tend to agree with the author.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 12:59:15 PM
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Evangel70
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I found it interesting that the responses given by the blogger could also be used against "older" evangelicals who believe the government's purpose is to force Christian values and behaviors on a secular society.
I would use the same responses for conservatives who believe God's purpose for civil government is to stop legalized abortion, homosexuality, illegal immigration, bring "democracy" to other nations, or to establish a "kingdom of God" on earth.
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 1:32:43 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
I would use the same responses for conservatives who believe God's purpose for civil government is to stop legalized abortion, homosexuality, illegal immigration, bring "democracy" to other nations, or to establish a "kingdom of God" on earth.
I don't know anyone who thinks God's purpose for government is to establish the kingdom of God on earth (that would be an Obamamessiah supporter's position, as He is the One who bring about peace and economic equality in our land) but as for the rest, are you saying God isn't concerned about abortion, homosexuality, or breaking the law?
What pray tell is He concerned about with regard to government - tax rebates?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 2:05:49 PM
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sue244
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like I said in another tread if Obama wins it will be because of the lukewarm American Church. We will have no one to blaim but ourselves.
_____________________________
"Indeed I Tremble for this country when I reflect that God is Just and His Justice cannot Sleep Forever"
Jefferson
"Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Churchill
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 2:07:26 PM
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womaninchrist
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Well, adding an extra layer of laws isn't helping is it? How many are honestly being discouraged from stuff like abortion and homosexuality because we've added or we're trying to add man's laws to God's laws? From statistics on such behaviors, sure doesn't look like too many. Seems like there would be better ways to discourage sin than making it illegal by our laws too. Seems to me also that it's way past time for the church to get back to kindness and caring for people.
edited to add - there are actually several popular theologies that believe things like this is the Kingdom of God on Earth or that we can, um, "massage" the Tribulation into happening sooner. Not all of them are "liberal" theologies or "liberation" theologies either.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 3:04:04 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
Well, adding an extra layer of laws isn't helping is it? How many are honestly being discouraged from stuff like abortion and homosexuality because we've added or we're trying to add man's laws to God's laws? From statistics on such behaviors, sure doesn't look like too many.
What statistics are you referring to?
quote:
Seems like there would be better ways to discourage sin than making it illegal by our laws too.
So we have the governing body sanction sin in hopes of suppressing it? What's next? Dropping gasoline on wild fires instead of retardant?
quote:
Seems to me also that it's way past time for the church to get back to kindness and caring for people.
Which amounts to acceptance of what God's word says is wrong?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 3:05:57 PM
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RamiRedeemed
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
like I said in another tread if Obama wins it will be because of the lukewarm American Church. We will have no one to blaim but ourselves.
I'm not lukewarm at all and I'll be proudly voting on the 4th for Obama. That doesn't change mine or anyone elses love for God.
_____________________________
Some people talk because they have something to say.
Others talk because they have to say something.
-------------------------------
ramireconciled.blogspot.com
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 3:31:00 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RamiRedeemed
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
like I said in another tread if Obama wins it will be because of the lukewarm American Church. We will have no one to blaim but ourselves.
I'm not lukewarm at all and I'll be proudly voting on the 4th for Obama. That doesn't change mine or anyone elses love for God.
Obma is lukewarm, so while you may not be, what you are voting for is and he doesn't love God...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 3:39:30 PM
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rcjames
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How any Evangelical can support someone who is pro abortion, pro gay, and pro infanticide is beyond my scope to consider.
Sorry, but that just does not compute.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 3:46:37 PM
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stateofgrace
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Yeah, well we wondered a while back how any Evangelicals could think Todd Bentley was in his right mind and OK doctrinally, but there were a lot of people with Evangelical beliefs that got caught up in that nonsense too. Not as many as have gotten enthralled with Obama, but frankly, Obama's better at the whole enthralling thing.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 4:35:00 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
and he doesn't love God...
Oh, so you've met him?
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You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 4:46:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
and he doesn't love God...
Oh, so you've met him?
I never met Judas, but based on his actions I believe he didn't love God either...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:02:13 PM
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RosieCotton
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I'm not lukewarm either.....and have proudly voted for Obama!
_____________________________
The object of a new year is not that we should have a new year. It is that we should have a new soul.
--G.K. Chesterton--
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:07:43 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 1981
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quote:
I'm not lukewarm either.....and have proudly voted for Obama!
So you proudly voted for a man who devalues life and promotes a lifestyle that runs counter to the word of God. How do you rationalize that?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:21:25 PM
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RosieCotton
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How has McSame done or said anything to show he values life?!?!?!
or, is it just the life in utero he values???? Once the child is alive, its not valued anymore?!?!?!?
plus, its about the people showing they value life......laws are never going to replace the heart!!!!
The question should be....how do you show you value life?!??!?
_____________________________
The object of a new year is not that we should have a new year. It is that we should have a new soul.
--G.K. Chesterton--
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:23:59 PM
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tafkam
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McCain does not endorse abortion, or partial birth abortion, or denying of medical treatment to babies who are born as the result of a botched abortion.
The man you voted for wholeheartedly endorses all of them.
Again, you would rationalize this with Scripture....how?
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:26:59 PM
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RosieCotton
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ohh, but he is for starting a war w/and using sanctions for every country that oposes us?
_____________________________
The object of a new year is not that we should have a new year. It is that we should have a new soul.
--G.K. Chesterton--
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama, How Could that Be? - 10/31/2008 5:29:45 PM
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Sonrise
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Keep in mind, dending on the poll upwards of 85% of Americans refer to themselves as "Christians", that being said if I place a fishbowl over my head and start calling myself an astronaut that doesn't mean that I should sit at home waiting for a call from NASA.
When Rick Warren asked Nobama when life began, "The One" said that he didn't know and that question was "above his pay grade". Gods Word tells us that he knew us before we were formed in the womb and knows every head on our hair. Not only is Obama for unconditional abortion, he voted against trying to save the life of a baby born of a failed abortion. Someone please try and reconcile that with God's Word.
Obama says that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality and that gays are "born that way". The Bible disagrees.
Obama attended a church led by a racist bigot for over twenty years that preached "black liberation", i.e blame whitey. The Bible tells us that there is no Greek nor Jew in Christ, i.e no longer are we black or white but Christians first.
I'm sure many self professed "Christians" did vote for Obama; however for those that are sold out for Christ and try and live Gods Word daily, with holiness and repentance, I don't see how those people could vote for Obama. The two are incompatible.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:30:46 PM
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tafkam
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RosieCotten,
Since you are apparently unable to answer a simple question that has been put to you (twice), I'll ask a THIRD time (s-l-o-w-l-y):
So you proudly voted for a man who devalues life and promotes a lifestyle that runs counter to the word of God. How do you rationalize that?
(BTW, this thread is about evangelicals voting for OBAMA. If you wish to discuss evangelicals voting for McCain, start a new thread....)
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:39:42 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2238
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RosieCotton
How has McSame done or said anything to show he values life?!?!?!
or, is it just the life in utero he values???? Once the child is alive, its not valued anymore?!?!?!?
plus, its about the people showing they value life......laws are never going to replace the heart!!!!
The question should be....how do you show you value life?!??!?
He and his wife adopted a very sick baby with severe medical needs and paid for another equally sick baby's medical needs so that friends could afford to adopt her. Both babies were in an orphanage run by Mother Theresa in Bangladesh.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:43:51 PM
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nuclear_sidewalk
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The word 'naivete' comes to mind when trying to express my generation's Obama infatuation. (25yrs old)
America is not Israel; God knows what will happen, but that does not mean that whoever's in office will be bringing about God's desired will. Obama certainly won't be executing God's moral will, leftist 'moral' policies in mind, aside from perhaps band-aiding some poor folks. I'm not of the persuasion to think eliminating poverty is completely the government's job, as there are plenty of folks who don't work for a lack of wanting to.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:44:23 PM
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Rockwall
Posts: 465
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
Well, adding an extra layer of laws isn't helping is it? How many are honestly being discouraged from stuff like abortion and homosexuality because we've added or we're trying to add man's laws to God's laws? From statistics on such behaviors, sure doesn't look like too many. Seems like there would be better ways to discourage sin than making it illegal by our laws too. Seems to me also that it's way past time for the church to get back to kindness and caring for people.
Well, adding an extra layer of laws isn't helping is it? How many are honestly being discouraged from stuff like murder and rape? From statistics on such behaviors, sure doesn't look like too many.
Should we just get rid of these laws since people are doing them anyway?
_____________________________
Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 5:53:17 PM
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rlj
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Perhaps it's a sin to vote for any candidate with sin? McCain isn't a christian and neither is Obama. They're both wrong.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 6:29:51 PM
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womaninchrist
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You're missing my point. Sticking with specifically legislating Christian morals - like that homosexuality is wrong - how many are being deterred? As others have said, you can't legislate the heart. A homosexual might not get to marry, they may not get the rights that our society grants with marriage, they may never "leave the closet" but how many of them will continue to at least in their hearts where it's most important BE homosexual?
As to the example of the McCain's adoption of a medically needy child, how does that apply? Seriously, they adopted ONE child and took care of ONE child's medical needs and paid for the medical needs of another so friends could adopt the child - that's TWO out of MANY children and adults both abroad AND AT HOME who suffer, become disabled and/or die due to lack of access to proper health care. In the scope of things, while it's something.
RosieCotton asked something that really does need an answer - why is it that life is so valuable and fiercely protected up until birth, while so many fight so hard to keep from giving the bits of stuff like food or medical assistance that would help the person live after birth? Why is it wrong to abort a child (and I'm not arguing for abortion at all), but seemingly OK to stand idly by pretending it's someone else's problem as someone starves or suffers due to need for medical care?
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