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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 6:49:57 PM
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utilityfielder
Posts: 11545
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Home of the Champions
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quote:
as someone starves
Would you please show us where people are starving in the United States?
_____________________________
Before I refuse to take your questions, I have an opening statement. Ronald Reagan
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama, How Could that Be? - 10/31/2008 6:51:29 PM
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luvmy3kids
Posts: 150
Joined: 10/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
Keep in mind, dending on the poll upwards of 85% of Americans refer to themselves as "Christians", that being said if I place a fishbowl over my head and start calling myself an astronaut that doesn't mean that I should sit at home waiting for a call from NASA.
When Rick Warren asked Nobama when life began, "The One" said that he didn't know and that question was "above his pay grade". Gods Word tells us that he knew us before we were formed in the womb and knows every head on our hair. Not only is Obama for unconditional abortion, he voted against trying to save the life of a baby born of a failed abortion. Someone please try and reconcile that with God's Word.
Obama says that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality and that gays are "born that way". The Bible disagrees.
Obama attended a church led by a racist bigot for over twenty years that preached "black liberation", i.e blame whitey. The Bible tells us that there is no Greek nor Jew in Christ, i.e no longer are we black or white but Christians first.
I'm sure many self professed "Christians" did vote for Obama; however for those that are sold out for Christ and try and live Gods Word daily, with holiness and repentance, I don't see how those people could vote for Obama. The two are incompatible.
I seriously don't think you meant it like that. If you did I seriously hope that you pray about that statement tonight.
Just because we have different polictal views does not down play our Christianity.
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Luvmy3Kids
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 6:51:52 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
quote:
I'm not lukewarm either.....and have proudly voted for Obama!
So you proudly voted for a man who devalues life and promotes a lifestyle that runs counter to the word of God. How do you rationalize that?
Being quick to anger and treating others poorly is living counter to the word of God, too.
-Dan.
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Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 6:55:05 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1749
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quote:
Being quick to anger and treating others poorly is living counter to the word of God, too.
Seems there is a lot of finger pointing going on here. Tell me, without being in the same room and through the use of a computer, how can you discern anger? Is it a ersponse to your own emotion or assumed of the other person?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 6:57:53 PM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
Joined: 7/23/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
He and his wife adopted a very sick baby with severe medical needs and paid for another equally sick baby's medical needs so that friends could afford to adopt her. Both babies were in an orphanage run by Mother Theresa in Bangladesh.
That was his wife doing , not McCain's
FreddieD
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 7:02:56 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
Being quick to anger and treating others poorly is living counter to the word of God, too.
Seems there is a lot of finger pointing going on here. Tell me, without being in the same room and through the use of a computer, how can you discern anger? Is it a ersponse to your own emotion or assumed of the other person?
Through a variety of reports talking about McCain's short temper. Watching the primary debates, it was obvious that he could get snarky and vindictive pretty quickly.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama, How Could that Be? - 10/31/2008 7:17:11 PM
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Sonrise
Posts: 163
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quote:
ORIGINAL: luvmy3kids
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sonrise
Keep in mind, dending on the poll upwards of 85% of Americans refer to themselves as "Christians", that being said if I place a fishbowl over my head and start calling myself an astronaut that doesn't mean that I should sit at home waiting for a call from NASA.
When Rick Warren asked Nobama when life began, "The One" said that he didn't know and that question was "above his pay grade". Gods Word tells us that he knew us before we were formed in the womb and knows every head on our hair. Not only is Obama for unconditional abortion, he voted against trying to save the life of a baby born of a failed abortion. Someone please try and reconcile that with God's Word.
Obama says that homosexuality is equal to heterosexuality and that gays are "born that way". The Bible disagrees.
Obama attended a church led by a racist bigot for over twenty years that preached "black liberation", i.e blame whitey. The Bible tells us that there is no Greek nor Jew in Christ, i.e no longer are we black or white but Christians first.
I'm sure many self professed "Christians" did vote for Obama; however for those that are sold out for Christ and try and live Gods Word daily, with holiness and repentance, I don't see how those people could vote for Obama. The two are incompatible.
I seriously don't think you meant it like that. If you did I seriously hope that you pray about that statement tonight.
Just because we have different polictal views does not down play our Christianity.
Please use scripture to refute any or all of my points. How can you justify to God your vote for Obama knowing what you know? Honestly?
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 7:25:02 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
McCain does not endorse abortion, or partial birth abortion, or denying of medical treatment to babies who are born as the result of a botched abortion.
The man you voted for wholeheartedly endorses all of them.
Again, you would rationalize this with Scripture....how?
I'm still waiting to see if there is an answer to this. Apparently, they (as in Obama supporters) cannot reconcile Obama's stand on issues with the scripture.
I'm voting for Obama, but I don't like his position on abortion. I think it's sad that he holds those beliefs. However, considering that he already acknoledges that there's no practical difference between a baby that has just exited the birth canal and one that is just about to exit, I hold a bit of hope that some day (maybe too late for him to effect policy changes) he can be convinced that abortion is wrong.
I also don't believe McCain would make much headway on abortion legislation if he were elected. I believe that W is more pro-life than McCain, and we haven't really gotten anywhere with him, have we?
That said, there ARE other factors that contribute to abortion rates and other "life" and "family" related issues. Economic conditions have a huge impact on the stability of families and have been shown to have some influence on whether an unmarried pregnant couple stays together and on whether the mother keeps the baby. Regarding broader "life" issues, a president's management of foreign affairs and the military has the potential to affect the lives of thousands (maybe millions) of people. Skilled diplomacy can save many lives.
If we can't have abortion legislated away (and I don't believe we can), then I'd rather have some of the other related concerns addressed.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama, How Could that Be? - 10/31/2008 7:25:37 PM
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Longfingers1
Posts: 444
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I'm sorry this is so ridiculous... just as ridiculous as the thread are Democrats Christians ( http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3029929/mpage_1/tm.htm ) How Could a Christian Support Obama? ( http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3742151/mpage_1/tm.htm ) or if you vote Democratic you're going to hell and such. You all want scriptures for those of us who support Obama... like he's Satan. McCain is no saint and he supports things that the Bible doesn't support, and doesn't support things which the Bible supports as well.
Many of you all here really act like it's hard for a Christian of any denomination: COGIC, Church of Christ, Apostolistic, Methodist, Episcopal, CME, AME, Baptist, ect. to not be a Christian because of their political view. Since when did God appoint one party over the other to be his party of choice? Since when do we think that a politician is suppose to be without sin and their platform should mirror that of the Bible, guess what, you're not going to find a candidate or party that is that way, because if we're to vote solely on the Bible alone, none of us Christians would be voting at all. 
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 7:35:56 PM
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relady
Posts: 1212
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
Through a variety of reports talking about McCain's short temper. Watching the primary debates, it was obvious that he could get snarky and vindictive pretty quickly.
His temper is very well known in the Senate. He was barely keeping it civil during the debates.
quote:
I'm still waiting to see if there is an answer to this. Apparently, they (as in Obama supporters) cannot reconcile Obama's stand on issues with the scripture. Why am I not surprised? This has been asked and answered on oh so many threads out here and you all just reject the answers. So it's not even worth the effort, frankly.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 7:41:26 PM
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LabGuy
Posts: 3306
Joined: 9/22/2007
From: NW Pennsylvania
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quote:
RosieCotton asked something that really does need an answer - why is it that life is so valuable and fiercely protected up until birth, while so many fight so hard to keep from giving the bits of stuff like food or medical assistance that would help the person live after birth? Why is it wrong to abort a child (and I'm not arguing for abortion at all), but seemingly OK to stand idly by pretending it's someone else's problem as someone starves or suffers due to need for medical care?
In order to help care for a baby after birth, one must first prevent that baby from being murdered in the womb.
Are you familiar with Crisis Pregnancy Centers? They provide support before and after birth, helping mothers care for their babies. Obama wants to deny Federal funding to them. But he wants to pay for abortions. Sounds like someone should ask him about caring for children after birth. You know, the guy who described an unplanned baby as a punishment.
Furthermore, I find the entire argument that those who oppose abortion do not care what happens to the child after birth wholly disingenuous. Those who are passionate about the cause donate to and volunteer at CPC's. And many, many Christians take to heart God's commands to care for the poor and give generously of our time and money. So that talking point is simply not going to fly.
The question remains, however, how anyone who follows Christ can in good conscience support someone who, among other things, promotes the murder of the unborn, promotes a lifestyle God has called an abomination (and has mocked the Word of God concerning it), and who bald-face lies even when confronted with the facts proving his lies? That's not a matter of "politics" - that's a matter of right and wrong as spelled out in God's Word.
Furthermore, to vote for such a candidate is to endorse and consent to his positions. And the Bible makes abundantly clear that those who endorse sin share in the guilt of that sin. Please see this post for details.
Jesus explicitly told us to seek first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness. I don't know about you, but to me that means voting for the candidate whose positions most line up with the Word of God. No candidate is perfect, but one is certainly further from that ideal than the other.
-Robb
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 7:50:38 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
This has been asked and answered on oh so many threads out here and you all just reject the answers.
Links, please. I haven't seen any such answers.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 7:57:51 PM
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Evangel70
Posts: 550
Joined: 10/28/2006
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quote:
Jesus explicitly told us to seek first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness. I don't know about you, but to me that means voting for the candidate whose positions most line up with the Word of God. No candidate is perfect, but one is certainly further from that ideal than the other.
I would like someone to explain to me how they believe McCain's behavior, policies and history aligns with the word of God (please don't just claim that he is anti-abortion). Has he run his campaign as Jesus would? Has he been honest about his political promises? Has he been completely honest in what he says in his attack ads against Obama? Would you tell your child or grandchild that McCain or Palin is an example of how to follow Jesus and they should emulate that?
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 8:32:32 PM
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Market42Fan
Posts: 240
Joined: 9/10/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Perhaps it's a sin to vote for any candidate with sin? McCain isn't a christian and neither is Obama. They're both wrong.
Sorry, but if we used your rationale at face value, out goes Chuck Baldwin as well (though a "Vote Jesus" movement wouldn't sound like a bad idea)
Here's an idea. Why not take a good look at ALL of the candidates in ALL the races on ALL the issues, and compare what each of them stand for with the Word of God, as that is the Christian's final measuring stick?
_____________________________
"...as opposed to what? an I really, really like you crime?" Response by a 1973 cop to the main character from "Life on Mars" when the latter says a crime looks like a hate crime.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 9:03:13 PM
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Peter_Gunn
Posts: 706
Joined: 6/12/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
quote:
Jesus explicitly told us to seek first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness. I don't know about you, but to me that means voting for the candidate whose positions most line up with the Word of God. No candidate is perfect, but one is certainly further from that ideal than the other.
I would like someone to explain to me how they believe McCain's behavior, policies and history aligns with the word of God (please don't just claim that he is anti-abortion). Has he run his campaign as Jesus would? Has he been honest about his political promises? Has he been completely honest in what he says in his attack ads against Obama? Would you tell your child or grandchild that McCain or Palin is an example of how to follow Jesus and they should emulate that?
Well, see...no one is lionizing McCain like they are Obama. And yes, sin is sin is sin... But Obama is just so much more blatantly anti-Chrisitan in his values. So if we have to vote, and we do, we have to make a choice. I'm afraid we do the best we can.
If you believe God puts leaders in place, you must also see that He puts the candidates in place. He knows none of them is a great choice, biblically-speaking. But He understands our hearts and why we make the choice we do. And He knows what we're basing our choice on, as well. He's the ultimate decider of the vote...but we're responsible to hold to His Word as much as the candidate will allow.
I guess it's like a scale. Who weighs heavier when you apply the Word of God?
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 9:09:45 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
You're missing my point. Sticking with specifically legislating Christian morals - like that homosexuality is wrong - how many are being deterred? As others have said, you can't legislate the heart.
The same thing can be said for many of the laws already on the books...
quote:
A homosexual might not get to marry, they may not get the rights that our society grants with marriage, they may never "leave the closet" but how many of them will continue to at least in their hearts where it's most important BE homosexual?
There is no good reason to sanction sexual perversion...
quote:
RosieCotton asked something that really does need an answer - why is it that life is so valuable and fiercely protected up until birth, while so many fight so hard to keep from giving the bits of stuff like food or medical assistance that would help the person live after birth? Why is it wrong to abort a child (and I'm not arguing for abortion at all), but seemingly OK to stand idly by pretending it's someone else's problem as someone starves or suffers due to need for medical care?
Because it's normally used as an excuse to murder children and it's a false assumption....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 9:17:51 PM
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HeadHome
Posts: 48
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: RamiRedeemed
quote:
ORIGINAL: sue244
like I said in another tread if Obama wins it will be because of the lukewarm American Church. We will have no one to blaim but ourselves.
I'm not lukewarm at all and I'll be proudly voting on the 4th for Obama. That doesn't change mine or anyone elses love for God.
Obma is lukewarm, so while you may not be, what you are voting for is and he doesn't love God...
Oh, Sovereign...
have you forgotten that the honorable Sen. McCain called Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson "agents of intolerance" eight years ago?
I'd say that the so-called "Christian Right" = "suckers being played for fools" by Sen. McCain's attempts to harvest votes from that bloc.
Isn't McCain a (seemingly nominal) Episcopalian? And doesn't that make him pretty lukewarm himself?? Just asking....The man does have a couple of large errors in judgment in his past: the self-admitted adultery that eventually ended his first marriage; and his active support of then-wealthy contributor Charles Keating, which cost American taxpayers millions of dollars in the S & L scandal.
No question: Obama is a minimally preferable choice ... or not. He has his own sins to deal with. But I'll take my chances with Obama. Why? Check your Old Testament - see how many times God raised up an unrighteous man to lead a nation, or lead His own people. What if God is bringing judgment to America? It wouldn't be the first time that He has placed an unrighteous people in His crosshairs. And what if Obama really DOES turn out to be the "false prophet," or "the beast," or even the Antichrist? Have we not been waiting for the end times to arrive? Does our world not look remarkably like the times Paul describes in 2 Timothy 3? Should we not be prepared to proclaim the truth of Scripture every day as a hedge against those future days of great tribulation? And...ultimately, is that not more important than whoever wins this election?
_____________________________
Here comes the King,
All bow down;
All bow down.
- "All Bow Down," Chris Tomlin
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 9:18:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
I'm voting for Obama, but I don't like his position on abortion.
Your "actions" say otherwise...
quote:
I think it's sad that he holds those beliefs.
Yet you lend support to those very beliefs...
quote:
However, considering that he already acknoledges that there's no practical difference between a baby that has just exited the birth canal and one that is just about to exit, I hold a bit of hope that some day (maybe too late for him to effect policy changes) he can be convinced that abortion is wrong.
Why should he be when people lend his position on abortion support with their votes? Some in the name of God...
quote:
I also don't believe McCain would make much headway on abortion legislation if he were elected. I believe that W is more pro-life than McCain, and we haven't really gotten anywhere with him, have we?
Rationalization for voting for the pro-abortion candidate...
quote:
That said, there ARE other factors that contribute to abortion rates and other "life" and "family" related issues. Economic conditions have a huge impact on the stability of families and have been shown to have some influence on whether an unmarried pregnant couple stays together and on whether the mother keeps the baby. Regarding broader "life" issues, a president's management of foreign affairs and the military has the potential to affect the lives of thousands (maybe millions) of people. Skilled diplomacy can save many lives.
That explains away the 3000 unborn children murdered daily...
quote:
If we can't have abortion legislated away (and I don't believe we can), then I'd rather have some of the other related concerns addressed.
By they man that has no regard for defensible life?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama, How Could that Be? - 10/31/2008 9:20:46 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Longfingers1
I'm sorry this is so ridiculous... just as ridiculous as the thread are Democrats Christians ( http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3029929/mpage_1/tm.htm ) How Could a Christian Support Obama? ( http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_3742151/mpage_1/tm.htm ) or if you vote Democratic you're going to hell and such. You all want scriptures for those of us who support Obama... like he's Satan. McCain is no saint and he supports things that the Bible doesn't support, and doesn't support things which the Bible supports as well.
Many of you all here really act like it's hard for a Christian of any denomination: COGIC, Church of Christ, Apostolistic, Methodist, Episcopal, CME, AME, Baptist, ect. to not be a Christian because of their political view. Since when did God appoint one party over the other to be his party of choice? Since when do we think that a politician is suppose to be without sin and their platform should mirror that of the Bible, guess what, you're not going to find a candidate or party that is that way, because if we're to vote solely on the Bible alone, none of us Christians would be voting at all.
Are you saying God gives one a pass for voting for whomever regardless if they do so with forethought that it's against His word?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama - 10/31/2008 9:23:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
This has been asked and answered on oh so many threads out here and you all just reject the answers. So it's not even worth the effort, frankly.
It's NEVER been answered with the bible... It's rationalized by saying it's not really an issue and other SECULAR arguments. Like God doesn't care how one votes... There is NO biblical support for homosexuality and sexual perversion, nor support for each agenda...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Evangelicals For Obama, How Could that Be? - 10/31/2008 9:26:51 PM
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RamiRedeemed
Posts: 2628
Joined: 10/13/2008
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To be honest, whether he is or is not a Christian isn't of my concern. Keep in mind the last 'christian' we voted into office started a war based on lies...
For his souls sake I hope he is but that does not influence my voting at all.
As for his views on abortion, well I'm pro choice so I'm voting for the person who best agrees with my personal convictions.
Basically the same deal for the other hot issues as well.
Does that mean I hate Jesus? Absolutely not. It means I don't agree with the Christian Right, which happens to usually be neither ;)
_____________________________
Some people talk because they have something to say.
Others talk because they have to say something.
-------------------------------
ramireconciled.blogspot.com
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