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Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 12:58:55 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
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From: Arkansas
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Taking God's forgiveness for granted....has really been on my mind. And Im wanting some advice from everyone here. I have heard it said before, "Well I know its wrong, but God will forgive me." I hate that statement, and I myself, often wonder, do I do this very same thing, but just dont speak it as others do. I strive everyday, to live according to the Word of God, but I know, Im not perfect and Im not without sin, I repent daily and try my hardest to turn from sin. But, I know there are many Christians, who are faced with difficult situations, and they clearly know, without being told, that what they are doing is sin, but continue to do it anyway....and claim, I know God will forgive me. How do you view this...and how do you talk to people about this?
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7 
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 1:33:56 PM
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mvic
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Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, if my brother keeps sinning against me, how many times do I have to forgive him? Seven times?” “No, not seven times,” answered Jesus, “but seventy times seven.” Matthew 18: 21-22
Imagine a friend of yours sinned against you - say he gossiped about you behind your back. You both talk about it, and you forgive him. And he does the same thing again, and again. Sooner or later you will realise that his repentance is not genuine. He seeks forgiveness just to buy back your friendship; and yet goes on to do the same thing again.
I suspect that although God is forgiving; He also expects from us genuine repentance and genuine attempts not to sin again.
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Visit http://www.holyvisions.co.uk
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 1:40:03 PM
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Little_1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mvic
Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, if my brother keeps sinning against me, how many times do I have to forgive him? Seven times?” “No, not seven times,” answered Jesus, “but seventy times seven.” Matthew 18: 21-22
Imagine a friend of yours sinned against you - say he gossiped about you behind your back. You both talk about it, and you forgive him. And he does the same thing again, and again. Sooner or later you will realise that his repentance is not genuine. He seeks forgiveness just to buy back your friendship; and yet goes on to do the same thing again.
I suspect that although God is forgiving; He also expects from us genuine repentance and genuine attempts not to sin again.
I do believe the Lord expects genuine repentance also but when the Lord tells us to forgive, it is for our own good also (so that sin will not fester and grow in our hearts). If the offender keeps doing wrong - they have God to answer to and if we don't forgive - so will we. Bad enough them sinning against us but if we allow it to cause us to fall into sin when we have God's grace available to forgive (if we are willing) - then we are losers also. We can choose to forgive often and grow in grace as a result or give in and lose out on our Christian character being shaped into something beautiful for God's glory.
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 1:50:14 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
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From: Arkansas
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I have a friend, who lives with a guy, thay have a little boy together. They have been together for 5 years, she has gotten saved, and now its bothering her that she is living with him and sleeping with him outside marriage.....and I know its the Holy Spirit bringing her under conviction for this. She doesnt want to marry this guy, because he doesnt believe as she does, and he is also dealing with some things, that he needs to seek help with, its a really bad situation. And at the same time, she doesnt want to kick him out because she loves him, and he is the father of her little boy. Anyway, to make a long story short, she made the remark to me, Im not going to sleep with him anymore, but she continues to slip....and then makes the remark to me, well I know God will forgive me.....I almost wanted to say, "No, this isnt a game you play with God, and I wouldnt take His forgiveness for granted." But I didnt. And its really been bothering me. Because I sometimes wonder, when God reveals something to us, but we continue to do it anyway, will He remove His guiding influence from our lives?
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 1:57:55 PM
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Little_1
Posts: 1588
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Taking God's forgiveness for granted....has really been on my mind. And Im wanting some advice from everyone here. I have heard it said before, "Well I know its wrong, but God will forgive me." I hate that statement, and I myself, often wonder, do I do this very same thing, but just dont speak it as others do. I strive everyday, to live according to the Word of God, but I know, Im not perfect and Im not without sin, I repent daily and try my hardest to turn from sin. But, I know there are many Christians, who are faced with difficult situations, and they clearly know, without being told, that what they are doing is sin, but continue to do it anyway....and claim, I know God will forgive me. How do you view this...and how do you talk to people about this?
Yes - I believe we can take God's forgiveness for granted and intentionally sin because we believe God will automatically forgive us. What we forget is that sin carries a sting in the tail because whilst we may by God's grace come to genuine repentance - we none the less may have to live with the consequences of our sin in the long run (and that may include others having to live with the consequences of our sin also). 
There is also the question of what is genuine repentance? Repentance is a complete turning away from known sin. It is not simply a case of a simple "I sinned (name the sin)" and saying "sorry God!" and then go and do the same thing or other known sins shortly afterwards or repeatedly. If we do this - we are lying to ourselves and to God (which increases our sin)! We only fool ourselves.
Therefore, I do not believe we can keep on deliberately and willfully sinning and get away with such because God loves us too much to allow us to do so. Sooner or later our sin will catch up with us and God may have to chastise us as a result if we do not genuinely repent (as described above).
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 2:04:14 PM
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mvic
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The most important thing in this relationship is the well-being of the boy.
Whatever your words: "and he is also dealing with some things, that he needs to seek help with, its a really bad situation." may mean: and please don't tell us here; it is not essential that we know. The fact remains that the child's well-being is important above all else. Whether she lives with him outside marriage, whether she sleeps with him or not are not as important.
So when you advise her, although you may wish to discuss God and whether He forgives her or not, please remember what is best for the child. I'm glad you didn't reprimand her. That's wise.
Pray about it before advising your friend.
God bless.
_____________________________
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 2:21:57 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Taking God's forgiveness for granted....has really been on my mind. And Im wanting some advice from everyone here. I have heard it said before, "Well I know its wrong, but God will forgive me." I hate that statement, and I myself, often wonder, do I do this very same thing, but just dont speak it as others do. I strive everyday, to live according to the Word of God, but I know, Im not perfect and Im not without sin, I repent daily and try my hardest to turn from sin. But, I know there are many Christians, who are faced with difficult situations, and they clearly know, without being told, that what they are doing is sin, but continue to do it anyway....and claim, I know God will forgive me. How do you view this...and how do you talk to people about this?
The problem is that people do not take Gods forgiveness for granted. And because they do not they never live the life that God has made available to them. It is not that God will forgive you, it is that He already has.
Until a person rests in the finality of the cross, they will never experience the reality of the resurrection.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 2:27:58 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Taking God's forgiveness for granted....has really been on my mind. And Im wanting some advice from everyone here. I have heard it said before, "Well I know its wrong, but God will forgive me." I hate that statement, and I myself, often wonder, do I do this very same thing, but just dont speak it as others do. I strive everyday, to live according to the Word of God, but I know, Im not perfect and Im not without sin, I repent daily and try my hardest to turn from sin. But, I know there are many Christians, who are faced with difficult situations, and they clearly know, without being told, that what they are doing is sin, but continue to do it anyway....and claim, I know God will forgive me. How do you view this...and how do you talk to people about this?
The problem is that people do not take Gods forgiveness for granted. And because they do not they never live the life that God has made available to them. It is not that God will forgive you, it is that He already has.
Until a person rests in the finality of the cross, they will never experience the reality of the resurrection.
Peace
I know what you mean by your post, but I dont think you understand what Im saying, maybe I didnt explain it. Say a person has been saved, but they are faced with having a sexual relationship with someone, but they choose to do it anyway, and say, well I'll be forgiven, and yes they will.....but do you think this is right? Should a person keep on doing this.
Isnt there a difference between a "willful sin" and maybe making a mistake, that clearly isnt right, we repent and turn from that sin? But to continue to do something that you know is wrong, but you continue because you know you will be forgiven.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 2:40:03 PM
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PopsiLufsJesus
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The Word talks about not using grace as a reason to go further in sin. It is in Romans somewhere I think...And those who do God knows where their heart is even if I don't...
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer."
~ Romans 12:12
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 2:43:09 PM
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terryjohn
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Sin is not about doing things, for it will be admitted that without faith even good works are sins, so it is about being out of love with God and others, without faith it is impossible to please Him. Nevertheless, love does not tolerate the lack of love others have towards others and that is not a sin but to be at peace with others lack of love would be for even the God's wrath is being poured out on all the ungodlessness and wickedness of men.
Hence, if even good works can be sins, for they are done without faith, then perhaps even seemingly evil deeds may not be called sins if done in faith. You could say the deed is nothing, but the motivation/love/faith is everything. Scripture also shows one man kill (Joshua/Abraham) and is held up as an example of a man of faith, and another does not and he is also held up as a man of faith (Christ). The righteous shall live by faith and faith alone? Faith is the defines sin as showing a lack of faith and nothing else. Faith and faith alone justifies (puts us right with) and makes us right (righteous/holy) in God's eyes.
You could say we will be condemned not for the deeds our hands have done, but for the faith or the lack of faith that motivated them. Let us stop talking about sins and talk rather about faith for there is now no comdemnation for those who are in Christ.
Goodness is a matter that should not worry a people who are saved by grace through faith for even if we were perfect we could not save ourselves. There is a danger we take our own ability to save ourselves for granted and miss out on the grace freely offered. Now to the man who believes he may sin that the grace of God may abound then he may well worry that he has faith at all. At best Paul gives us the impression that we all should have this attitude that we all do things that we do not want to do and cursed is the man who does not have this war between the flesh and the spirit. Paul actually rejoices in this realisation for in it he sees Christ working in him and if Christ is at work Paul is sure that Christ will be able to finish the work started in him.
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/1/2008 6:42:23 PM
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lionofzion56
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Joined: 6/23/2008
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first i was going to say that to him who knows to do right, and doesn't do it is sin...
but then i read why you were asking the subject question. i see both sides. her not kicking him out b/c she loves him, yet, he's there and she falls into sin.
there really is no easy solution to say well she should kick him out or she should let him stay... either way hopefully God will touch this man's life possibly through her... and thier son. the best advice i can give is don't get too involved in her life- it is hers. and just continue to be supportive.
pray for them.. they are a family. (even though they may not be Biblically founded yet.)
They really need God's love.
Jesus - just remember Jesus' example.
Godbless. don't be quick to judge.
_____________________________
Embrace Yourself!
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 8:08:52 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1211
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Taking God's forgiveness for granted....has really been on my mind. And Im wanting some advice from everyone here. I have heard it said before, "Well I know its wrong, but God will forgive me." I hate that statement, and I myself, often wonder, do I do this very same thing, but just dont speak it as others do. I strive everyday, to live according to the Word of God, but I know, Im not perfect and Im not without sin, I repent daily and try my hardest to turn from sin. But, I know there are many Christians, who are faced with difficult situations, and they clearly know, without being told, that what they are doing is sin, but continue to do it anyway....and claim, I know God will forgive me. How do you view this...and how do you talk to people about this?
The problem is that people do not take Gods forgiveness for granted. And because they do not they never live the life that God has made available to them. It is not that God will forgive you, it is that He already has.
Until a person rests in the finality of the cross, they will never experience the reality of the resurrection.
Peace
I know what you mean by your post, but I dont think you understand what Im saying, maybe I didnt explain it. Say a person has been saved, but they are faced with having a sexual relationship with someone, but they choose to do it anyway, and say, well I'll be forgiven, and yes they will.....but do you think this is right? Should a person keep on doing this.
Isnt there a difference between a "willful sin" and maybe making a mistake, that clearly isnt right, we repent and turn from that sin? But to continue to do something that you know is wrong, but you continue because you know you will be forgiven.
We will never get to the point where we are experiencing Christ living His life in and through us, until we have settled in our own minds, what God has settled in reality...the sin issue between God and ourselves. It is not that God will forgive us, it is not that we may get forgiven, it is that we are forgiven.
Until we rest in His total forgiveness, we will never experience the reality of, "Christ in you, the hope of glory." (Colossians 1:27)
Salvation is not just something Christ did for us, it is Jesus Christ Himself living in us. Until your friend understands that, she has no option but to function in her own strength, and in her own strength she is no match for sin. When she understands who she now is in Christ, then she will be able to rest in He who is more than able to lead her in a life worthy of, and consistent with, her new identity.
We are forgiven, and we are forgiven in order for Christ Himself to now indwell us, it is His life that saves us (Romans 5:10). It is only as we allow the Holy Spirit within us to lead us that we will experience the freedom that Gods grace has given to us; not the freedom to sin, but finally, the freedom to not sin.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 8:57:38 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
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Though I believe God does desire a sincere heart and genuine repentence when we sin... regarding the matter of forgiveness, we do not base our sin on that matter. We base our sins being blotted out by one thing and one thing alone -- Christ's finished work on the cross.
If, thereafter, having trusted the Lord to take my sin, I walk into transgression... should I earn forgiveness with sincerity of heart? No, because this also, is a work, and we are saved by grace through faith; not of works--including but certainly not limited to, the work of sincere repentence. What do you suppose would happen to a man who knows the Lord, but sinned only moments before tragically dying without sincerely repenting of the sin he committed just before dying? Or, perhaps *as he was dying* he cursed, had an impure thought, or a number other sins that could befall someone on their way to the grave. Would he be in hell, or do we not base God's gift of salvation upon sincere repentence if one has trusted Christ? The answer is the latter--he would be in heaven, because Christ has finished and will finish the work--we are forgiven based upon Him, and His promise to keep us, and not to lose us.
The bottom line is that if a person has been covered by the grace of God since trusting Christ, they can say, "God will forgive me." The only thing I would disagree with is that it would be truer to say, "God has already forgiven me." God has made it clear to make no provision for the flesh, it's true. God has made it clear that we will wreck our lives and out of His perfect will if we follow sin and not His Holy commands, it's true. However, our forgiveness does not come to depend on our own righteousness or sincerity if we have trusted Christ... it stays and always hangs upon the one who hung on a cross for us.
I understand that "God will forgive me," is an annoying statement, because it tells me that the person is going to wreck their life to some degree by walking after sin rather than obeying God's perfect commands, which are designed to protect us... and sin is to enslave us. But, it's not a matter of forgiveness, because we are already forgiven. If anyone sins, there is an advocate with the Father who makes intercesion on our behalf--Jesus Christ, the ONLY ONE who is truly righteous.
< Message edited by d4nnyb0y02 -- 11/3/2008 9:38:22 AM >
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 11:01:09 AM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
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Misty:
God will forgive her, but He will continue to convict her until she either changes. God's grace is sufficient for all things. He convicted me for several years about smoking until I finally quit. I had tried many times, and failed each time. But He is patient and more persistent than even someone as stubborn as I am. (My mom once said I was more stubborn than 5 donkeys put together) God will continue to convict her, and if she doesn't change, he will produce consequences that will cause her to change. She may catch him with another woman, or she may get pregnant again, or some other negative consequence that she doesn't want to face. He will bring about the change in her life through one means or another.
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
I have a friend, who lives with a guy, thay have a little boy together. They have been together for 5 years, she has gotten saved, and now its bothering her that she is living with him and sleeping with him outside marriage.....and I know its the Holy Spirit bringing her under conviction for this. She doesnt want to marry this guy, because he doesnt believe as she does, and he is also dealing with some things, that he needs to seek help with, its a really bad situation. And at the same time, she doesnt want to kick him out because she loves him, and he is the father of her little boy. Anyway, to make a long story short, she made the remark to me, Im not going to sleep with him anymore, but she continues to slip....and then makes the remark to me, well I know God will forgive me.....I almost wanted to say, "No, this isnt a game you play with God, and I wouldnt take His forgiveness for granted." But I didnt. And its really been bothering me. Because I sometimes wonder, when God reveals something to us, but we continue to do it anyway, will He remove His guiding influence from our lives?
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 11:07:12 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
Taking God's forgiveness for granted....has really been on my mind. And Im wanting some advice from everyone here. I have heard it said before, "Well I know its wrong, but God will forgive me."
Planning on sinning and expecting forgiveness might just run afoul of this Scripture;
(Heb 10:26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(Heb 10:27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
and is certainly what Paul was talking about here;
(Rom 6:1) What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
(Rom 6:2) God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
As for me I do not want to do anything that God forbids.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 12:06:09 PM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
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Romans 7:14 --25
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good I will to do I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
8:1--5 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
This description is the best description of the war that we face from scripture, and the key to winning that war is to set our minds on the things of the spirit, not the things of the flesh. For a new christian, this may take some time. As she learns more of God's word, she will be able to set more of her mind on the things of the Spirit than she will set her mind on the things of the flesh. It is not an automatic transformation, but one that can take months or years to accomplish. The Holy Spirit will lead her and convict her, as well as present her with consequences that will give her the opportunity to obey. It took years of being convicted for smoking both weed and cigarettes before I grew strong enough to overcome them, as I studied the word, the Spirit, and how God works in the heart, mind, and emotions. It was not until I was freed by the word of God in my mind and wrapped my mind around the concept of liberty that I was able to overcome them.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 12:14:51 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
Romans 7:14 --25
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good I will to do I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
8:1--5 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
This description is the best description of the war that we face from scripture, and the key to winning that war is to set our minds on the things of the spirit, not the things of the flesh. For a new christian, this may take some time. As she learns more of God's word, she will be able to set more of her mind on the things of the Spirit than she will set her mind on the things of the flesh. It is not an automatic transformation, but one that can take months or years to accomplish. The Holy Spirit will lead her and convict her, as well as present her with consequences that will give her the opportunity to obey. It took years of being convicted for smoking both weed and cigarettes before I grew strong enough to overcome them, as I studied the word, the Spirit, and how God works in the heart, mind, and emotions. It was not until I was freed by the word of God in my mind and wrapped my mind around the concept of liberty that I was able to overcome them.
James:
Im not disagreeing with you, and we are not talking about a new Christian, I never said she is a new Christian, she has been saved alot longer than me....but this is something she keeps falling into, but will turn around and say, "God will forgive me." She is willfully sinning, and I just dont think its right. Yes, God will forgive her, and I will not debate that with anyone, but I believe when one knows to do right, but they continue to do what they want to do, its a dangerous game, and God's Word is not a game. With me being a Christian, what if I decided to begin to steal, say from my parents, from my employer, whoever, and I continued to do so, but I said, "Oh well, God will forgive me." I dont think thats right. The time will come, that I will most likely have to pay for my actions, and thats no one's fault but my own.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 12:26:04 PM
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bravjim
Posts: 395
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
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You are right Misty, there will be consequences that she will face. Every sin has consequences to it, whether we are forgiven or not. I'm sure that she knows that too; but try to make sure that she does. Sometimes the consequences are years in the future, and long after. You said that she has a child with this guy, and the consequences could have something to do with the child. You just don't know.
No, it is not right to continue in sin. But someone is only as close to God as they choose to be. I know this better than anybody. All you can really do is pray for her that she will become more spiritually minded and seek after God. We just don't know how God will work things out for her, so prayer will get His attention.
By the way, I thought she was a new christian because you said that she was saved after the living arrangement had been set for awhile. I did not mean to assume anything.
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
Romans 7:14 --25
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good I will to do I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
8:1--5 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
This description is the best description of the war that we face from scripture, and the key to winning that war is to set our minds on the things of the spirit, not the things of the flesh. For a new christian, this may take some time. As she learns more of God's word, she will be able to set more of her mind on the things of the Spirit than she will set her mind on the things of the flesh. It is not an automatic transformation, but one that can take months or years to accomplish. The Holy Spirit will lead her and convict her, as well as present her with consequences that will give her the opportunity to obey. It took years of being convicted for smoking both weed and cigarettes before I grew strong enough to overcome them, as I studied the word, the Spirit, and how God works in the heart, mind, and emotions. It was not until I was freed by the word of God in my mind and wrapped my mind around the concept of liberty that I was able to overcome them.
James:
Im not disagreeing with you, and we are not talking about a new Christian, I never said she is a new Christian, she has been saved alot longer than me....but this is something she keeps falling into, but will turn around and say, "God will forgive me." She is willfully sinning, and I just dont think its right. Yes, God will forgive her, and I will not debate that with anyone, but I believe when one knows to do right, but they continue to do what they want to do, its a dangerous game, and God's Word is not a game. With me being a Christian, what if I decided to begin to steal, say from my parents, from my employer, whoever, and I continued to do so, but I said, "Oh well, God will forgive me." I dont think thats right. The time will come, that I will most likely have to pay for my actions, and thats no one's fault but my own.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 12:38:41 PM
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misty35
Posts: 614
Joined: 9/22/2008
From: Arkansas
Status: offline
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I may not have worded that correctly, they have been living together 5 years. She has been saved for a very long time now, but its just here recently that this is beginning to bother her and she has opened up to me about it. Their little boy is 2. And Im not in anyway passing judgment on her, and she knows this, but Im up front with her about it, and I dont candy coat it either. Its sin, God has revealed this to her, its Him that has brought her under conviction, not me, Im just being her support, and telling her that God can and will deliver her from this, but she has to trust in Him and not in flesh. But I have heard her say more than once, "Well, He will forgive me." So, its almost like she is stating, "I know its wrong, but as long as I repent, Im forgiven." And thats true, but I just dont think its very wise.
quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
You are right Misty, there will be consequences that she will face. Every sin has consequences to it, whether we are forgiven or not. I'm sure that she knows that too; but try to make sure that she does. Sometimes the consequences are years in the future, and long after. You said that she has a child with this guy, and the consequences could have something to do with the child. You just don't know.
No, it is not right to continue in sin. But someone is only as close to God as they choose to be. I know this better than anybody. All you can really do is pray for her that she will become more spiritually minded and seek after God. We just don't know how God will work things out for her, so prayer will get His attention.
By the way, I thought she was a new christian because you said that she was saved after the living arrangement had been set for awhile. I did not mean to assume anything.
quote:
ORIGINAL: misty35
quote:
ORIGINAL: bravjim
Romans 7:14 --25
For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me, (that is in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good I will to do I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
8:1--5 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
This description is the best description of the war that we face from scripture, and the key to winning that war is to set our minds on the things of the spirit, not the things of the flesh. For a new christian, this may take some time. As she learns more of God's word, she will be able to set more of her mind on the things of the Spirit than she will set her mind on the things of the flesh. It is not an automatic transformation, but one that can take months or years to accomplish. The Holy Spirit will lead her and convict her, as well as present her with consequences that will give her the opportunity to obey. It took years of being convicted for smoking both weed and cigarettes before I grew strong enough to overcome them, as I studied the word, the Spirit, and how God works in the heart, mind, and emotions. It was not until I was freed by the word of God in my mind and wrapped my mind around the concept of liberty that I was able to overcome them.
James:
Im not disagreeing with you, and we are not talking about a new Christian, I never said she is a new Christian, she has been saved alot longer than me....but this is something she keeps falling into, but will turn around and say, "God will forgive me." She is willfully sinning, and I just dont think its right. Yes, God will forgive her, and I will not debate that with anyone, but I believe when one knows to do right, but they continue to do what they want to do, its a dangerous game, and God's Word is not a game. With me being a Christian, what if I decided to begin to steal, say from my parents, from my employer, whoever, and I continued to do so, but I said, "Oh well, God will forgive me." I dont think thats right. The time will come, that I will most likely have to pay for my actions, and thats no one's fault but my own.
_____________________________
"For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind." 2 Timothy 1:7
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 2:19:22 PM
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kmangel
Posts: 443
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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I think you keep doing what you are doing. Support her and encourage her to make good decisions in the future. We all have areas that trip us up. Her living with someone outside of marriage is a very big deal and it sounds like she will need a lot of help to walk away from this relationship. Pray for your friend and be there for her as she turns to you.
I have a friend who was in an abusive marriage that God put in my life several years ago. I remember the first day she shared with me the fear she had in her life. I could feel the Holy Spirit welling up inside of me as she spoke to me. I knew God was going to work through me to help her. I was her sounding board. I was her encourager. There was one time that I went over to her house when her husband was there. I could have cut the fear with a knife in that room. I've never been afraid of any human being myself. What God had me do in those days was talk to her about standing up for herself--not taking the abuse from her husband. I told her to call 911 if he laid a hand on her. As she demanded more and more respect from her husband, I saw a shift in the fear she displayed that day in her home. Another time a few years later I was at her home when her husband was there, and the fear was gone. I could not sense the fear like I did that one day. I was really amazed.
You don't know where this is going with your friend but God does. Just be there for her and let God speak through you when He wants to speak.
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Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.
--Mark Twain
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RE: Taking God's forgiveness for granted... - 11/2/2008 2:24:42 PM
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SomeFineDay
Posts: 94
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline
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I think that God (and this has been my experience as well) will keep up the conviction until she;
1-tunes him out so much that she no longer walks as | | |
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