RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Industry
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/2/2008 11:15:54 PM
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LivingParadox
Posts: 926
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That sounds like a "scapel" method of fine tuning the economy. Just hack it to pieces with no real alternatives but make sure you get the big taxes in there.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 2:53:18 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1950
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Don't you all remember his earlier comments about gas prices? He wanted them high. If our gas prices are still low if/when he is inaugurated president, Obama and congress will likely raise the gas tax.
So...higher gas taxes...no new nuclear plants...no offshore or Anwar drilling (oh, he's going ot give it some "thought")..break the back of the coal industry through higher taxes and regulation...it's all about getting Americans to consume less and less energy because we won't be able to afford it. That's the Obama-Biden plan "for energy independence."
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 7:26:18 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
You don't do it in the midst of a major economic downturn. We need to get on our feet before we start talking about bankrupting a major segment of the economy.
He said this in January before things were this bad. I'd like to know how his timeline has changed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I have yet to hear or read the words of an apologist for Obama that even has a clue as to how to think in the long term. The meaning of OUTCOMES seems to elude them entirely.
On the contrary. It's because of the long term goals of this policy that I am inclined to get on board.
quote:
No group of people has brought us more unintended consequences than have the liberals in congress.
Seriously? The war in Iraq? The Enron loophole? Gramm-Leach-Bliley?
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 7:37:44 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 628
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Yes, I am aware of that. He actually addresses this towards the end of the interview (I've got about 6 minutes left and he just wrapped that up). He admits that's what will happen, but he says it's his job as a leader to convince the American people that the upfront costs will be worth it in the long run, through both a cleaner environment and through developed technology resulting in greater efficiency.
This is something that we're going to have to do at some point. How would you suggest that we get off of coal generation?
-Dan.
This is the absolute wrong approach. You do not cut yourself off from an efficient and cost effective means of generation before you have a new technology that is at the very least nearly as efficient. If you increase what it costs to produce energy with coal then all you encourage is the use of less cost effective technologies as a replacement. I have no problem with the government offering incentives for the research and development of new methods of generating electricty but not on the backs of the existing methods, which in turn costs every American alot more.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
When the oil jumped to $150/barrel it kind of killed the economy. This type of rhetoric will not help the recovery at all. There needs to be a comprehensive plan for energy independence but not at the expense of pushing the nation into a depression.
Without financial pressure, how do we generate the political will (not just in Washington, but across the country) to actually accomplish this?
-Dan.
If the technologies seeking to replace coal/natural gas generation are unable to compete with the cost effectiveness of coal then they are not ready yet to replace coal. It is downright stupid to ruin a viable business to force a new business down the throats of the masses. When someone creates a clean, efficient, and cost effective method of generation (like nuclear) coal will disappear since the existing regulations already make generating with coal a headache.
Oh and as far as your global warming arguement goes, making policy decisions based on fear mongering is a recipe for disaster. Already the over zealous push for non-fossil fuel based fuels is having negative impacts around the world.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 7:41:51 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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Jimmy Carter will be estatic if Obama wins because he will no longer be known as the most inept president in American history! 
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
The Jimmy Carter years will look like a great economic boom at the rate 0's going.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 7:43:32 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
When the oil jumped to $150/barrel it kind of killed the economy. This type of rhetoric will not help the recovery at all. There needs to be a comprehensive plan for energy independence but not at the expense of pushing the nation into a depression.
Without financial pressure, how do we generate the political will (not just in Washington, but across the country) to actually accomplish this?
-Dan.
If the technologies seeking to replace coal/natural gas generation are unable to compete with the cost effectiveness of coal then they are not ready yet to replace coal. It is downright stupid to ruin a viable business to force a new business down the throats of the masses. When someone creates a clean, efficient, and cost effective method of generation (like nuclear) coal will disappear since the existing regulations already make generating with coal a headache.
I suppose if you don't agree that man is contributing to global warming, then there's no way to argue this. If I didn't see anthropogenic global warming as a threat (and an expensive one, at that), then I wouldn't see the need to phase out coal, either.
But because I do see it as a threat, I see staying with coal as going with the cheap option now in exchange for greater problems later.
quote:
Oh and as far as your global warming arguement goes, making policy decisions based on fear mongering is a recipe for disaster. Already the over zealous push for non-fossil fuel based fuels is having negative impacts around the world.
The corn lobby was responsible for the increased use of ethanol at least as much as the green lobby was responsible (likely moreso).
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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The BIG issue was NEWS SUPPRESSION - 11/3/2008 7:50:56 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
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While this might not bother those that have been brainwashed by The One, it should.
The real story here is the fact that a critical bit of information that was gathered during an interview by a major paper was quashed because the paper felt that it would hurt Obama.
THAT is the real news because it has been repeated over and over by the big media when it comes to masking the real Obama.
A day ago many coal miners in West Virginia were happily intending to vote for the very man that would put them on the welfare roles and turning their state into a wasteland because Obama's advocates posing as news organizations decided to hide his REAL positions.
So, how many OTHER things do we not know that so-called 'news people' DO know and refuse to share? Have they NO shame?
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: The BIG issue was NEWS SUPPRESSION - 11/3/2008 8:02:17 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
While this might not bother those that have been brainwashed by The One, it should.
The real story here is the fact that a critical bit of information that was gathered during an interview by a major paper was quashed because the paper felt that it would hurt Obama.
THAT is the real news because it has been repeated over and over by the big media when it comes to masking the real Obama.
A day ago many coal miners in West Virginia were happily intending to vote for the very man that would put them on the welfare roles and turning their state into a wasteland because Obama's advocates posing as news organizations decided to hide his REAL positions.
So, how many OTHER things do we not know that so-called 'news people' DO know and refuse to share? Have they NO shame?
BINGO!
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 8:16:08 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
Without financial pressure, how do we generate the political will (not just in Washington, but across the country) to actually accomplish this?
A shakedown is a shakedown no matter how the left tries to spin it. Artificially raising prices is MANIPULATION and BLACKMAIL from politicians designed to accomplish THE WILL OF THE POLITICAL CLASS and, in the case of democrats... THE WILL OF THE RADICAL GREENS. THAT is NOT true democracy.
THe dems like to pretend they are for the common people. But, in reality and in EVERY case, they are for elites controlling common people. The common person is their pawn and not thier employer.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
If the technologies seeking to replace coal/natural gas generation are unable to compete with the cost effectiveness of coal then they are not ready yet to replace coal. It is downright stupid to ruin a viable business to force a new business down the throats of the masses. When someone creates a clean, efficient, and cost effective method of generation (like nuclear) coal will disappear since the existing regulations already make generating with coal a headache.
But, that is precisely what Obama declared. He is ready, for his own elite purposes, to ruin MANY industries for his 'opinion' that global warming is PRIMARILY caused by human actions when the scientific community is still definitely divided on that premise. Now, those who don't bother to check things out for themselves, the case is closed. But, that has more to do with propaganda than real science.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
I suppose if you don't agree that man is contributing to global warming, then there's no way to argue this. If I didn't see anthropogenic global warming as a threat (and an expensive one, at that), then I wouldn't see the need to phase out coal, either.
But because I do see it as a threat, I see staying with coal as going with the cheap option now in exchange for greater problems later.
It really doesn't matter if you think one thing and I think another. What matters is the science and that the science is not polluted as it is now for political considerations. The problem is that people are easily manipulated by propaganda on this issue as we were with the great global cooling scam in the 1970's and 1980s.
quote:
The corn lobby was responsible for the increased use of ethanol at least as much as the green lobby was responsible (likely moreso).
-Dan.
It really doesn't matter WHO pushed for ethanol. What matters are the long term implications for feeding humans. I was in DC for the Farmers March on Washington and covered it extensively. That march was about subsidies and tariffs and used the same tactics that the anti-war agitators had used in the 1960s. Everyone, it seems wanted government TO DO SOMETHING FOR THEM. The ethanol lobby is just that... a special interest group that thinks about one thing... their own best interest... not the world's.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 8:16:33 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 628
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
I suppose if you don't agree that man is contributing to global warming, then there's no way to argue this. If I didn't see anthropogenic global warming as a threat (and an expensive one, at that), then I wouldn't see the need to phase out coal, either.
But because I do see it as a threat, I see staying with coal as going with the cheap option now in exchange for greater problems later.
What technologies other than nuclear and wind do we have that won't be more expensive AND be exchanging current issues for greater problems later? Biofuels rape the land and solar would require huge solar arrays covering the land and probably necessitating the clearing of more land. Wind has it's limitations as well based on the geographic areas suitable for a continuous generating capacity. I am all for moving away from coal to nuclear but we are up against a wall with the environmental lobby on that one. What do we do with the chemical soup necessary for the manufacture of solar cells? Where does the raw material for storage batteries come from and how do we handle their disposal? Until real work has been done to identify the pitfalls of new technologies and at the very least a plan is made for mitigation of them the new technologies can not be said to be any better for us than the existing ones. To trade a relatively cheap technology with known problems for a more expensive technology with it's own set of problems and a larger set of unknowns is not a viable solution.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 8:18:45 AM
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letusreason
Posts: 869
Joined: 8/30/2008
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This story delineates even more succintly the choices on the presidential ballot.
1. McCain
or
2. Can of worms
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 9:04:18 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
This story delineates even more succintly the choices on the presidential ballot.
1. McCain
or
2. Can of worms
Here. Let me repeat that for all to hear!
quote:
ORIGINAL: letusreason
This story delineates even more succintly the choices on the presidential ballot.
1. McCain
or
2. Can of worms
That is a brilliantly concise summary of the choices.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 12:06:36 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
"Senator Obama has revealed himself to be nothing more than a short- sighted, inexperienced politician willing to say anything to get a vote. But today, the nation's coal industry and those who support it have a better understanding of his true mission, to 'bankrupt' our industry, put tens of thousands out of work and cause unprecedented increases in electricity prices.
"In addition to providing an affordable, reliable source of low-cost electricity, domestic coal holds the key to our nation's long-term energy security - a goal that cannot be overlooked during this time of international instability and economic uncertainty.
"Few policy areas are more important to our economic future than energy issues. As voters head to the polls tomorrow, it is essential they remember that access to reliable, affordable, domestic energy supplies is essential to economic growth and stability." From the Ohio Coal Association.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 12:24:17 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2238
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
"Senator Obama has revealed himself to be nothing more than a short- sighted, inexperienced politician willing to say anything to get a vote. But today, the nation's coal industry and those who support it have a better understanding of his true mission, to 'bankrupt' our industry, put tens of thousands out of work and cause unprecedented increases in electricity prices.
"In addition to providing an affordable, reliable source of low-cost electricity, domestic coal holds the key to our nation's long-term energy security - a goal that cannot be overlooked during this time of international instability and economic uncertainty.
"Few policy areas are more important to our economic future than energy issues. As voters head to the polls tomorrow, it is essential they remember that access to reliable, affordable, domestic energy supplies is essential to economic growth and stability." From the Ohio Coal Association.
The 0ne just blew it with several swing states. I'm just praying that enough people realize it when they vote. His policy of behavior modification is going to hurt everybody through loss of jobs, higher electric bills and of course higher consumer goods because all of those stores will have to charge more to cover their own electric bills.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 1:09:05 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1950
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
The 0ne just blew it with several swing states. I'm just praying that enough people realize it when they vote. His policy of behavior modification is going to hurt everybody through loss of jobs, higher electric bills and of course higher consumer goods because all of those stores will have to charge more to cover their own electric bills.
I pray they realize it as well.
If they don't, God has allowed this country to stew in delusion, and He's going to allow us to reap what we have collectively sowed - rain falling on the just and unjust (but here in reverse - famine affecting the Godly as well as the ungodly).
I've been almost to the point of tears today after hearing this news. When you combine it with the higher taxes, how he says the only problem with gas prices going up earlier this year is how quickly it happened...this man is going to try to destroy our economy, and the democrats in congress will not stand in his way.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: The BIG issue was NEWS SUPPRESSION - 11/3/2008 1:25:23 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1085
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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This is one of several reasons why early voting should be abolished. The major media is able (and willing) to hide news that would be detrimental to "The Cause" until it is too late for any great effect on voters.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
While this might not bother those that have been brainwashed by The One, it should.
The real story here is the fact that a critical bit of information that was gathered during an interview by a major paper was quashed because the paper felt that it would hurt Obama.
THAT is the real news because it has been repeated over and over by the big media when it comes to masking the real Obama.
A day ago many coal miners in West Virginia were happily intending to vote for the very man that would put them on the welfare roles and turning their state into a wasteland because Obama's advocates posing as news organizations decided to hide his REAL positions.
So, how many OTHER things do we not know that so-called 'news people' DO know and refuse to share? Have they NO shame?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 1:31:09 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1085
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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Not to mention possibly massive loss of jobs in many industries.
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
"Senator Obama has revealed himself to be nothing more than a short- sighted, inexperienced politician willing to say anything to get a vote. But today, the nation's coal industry and those who support it have a better understanding of his true mission, to 'bankrupt' our industry, put tens of thousands out of work and cause unprecedented increases in electricity prices.
"In addition to providing an affordable, reliable source of low-cost electricity, domestic coal holds the key to our nation's long-term energy security - a goal that cannot be overlooked during this time of international instability and economic uncertainty.
"Few policy areas are more important to our economic future than energy issues. As voters head to the polls tomorrow, it is essential they remember that access to reliable, affordable, domestic energy supplies is essential to economic growth and stability." From the Ohio Coal Association.
The 0ne just blew it with several swing states. I'm just praying that enough people realize it when they vote. His policy of behavior modification is going to hurt everybody through loss of jobs, higher electric bills and of course higher consumer goods because all of those stores will have to charge more to cover their own electric bills.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: The BIG issue was NEWS SUPPRESSION - 11/3/2008 1:45:11 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
This is one of several reasons why early voting should be abolished. The major media is able (and willing) to hide news that would be detrimental to "The Cause" until it is too late for any great effect on voters.
Actually, the SF Gate is claiming that they published and advertised this full interview immediately:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/11/02/MNTL13SU6S.DTL&type=politics
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: The BIG issue was NEWS SUPPRESSION - 11/3/2008 1:58:38 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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No Dan, they never published a written transcript of the interview. All they say is they "promoted" the audio and video versions. The readers of the paper never knew it existed. Only those who faithfully peruse the website might have known about it. Maybe. As a former Oakland and Napa Calif resident I do look at the site often. I never saw it.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 2:03:54 PM
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Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
Well we could start by building nuclear plants, but Obama doesn't support those either.
Obama didn't say he was opposed to nuclear plants. He just wants to make sure that there are safer disposal methods than what is used now.
I'm all for nuclear power. I work for the Navy, and I can tell you that these power plants are very safe. If these plants are ran per the Navy's standard, you'll never ever see a repeat of Three Mile Island.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 2:09:59 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm all for nuclear power. I work for the Navy, and I can tell you that these power plants are very safe. If these plants are ran per the Navy's standard, you'll never ever see a repeat of Three Mile Island. That's what McCain has been saying. But the Dems keep bringing up Yucca Mountain and the opposition to using it to store spent waste. Who do you think Obama is going to side with?
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 2:31:42 PM
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Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
I'm all for nuclear power. I work for the Navy, and I can tell you that these power plants are very safe. If these plants are ran per the Navy's standard, you'll never ever see a repeat of Three Mile Island. That's what McCain has been saying. But the Dems keep bringing up Yucca Mountain and the opposition to using it to store spent waste. Who do you think Obama is going to side with?
To be honest with you, I have not heard Obama talk about Yucca Mountain, just that he wanted safer nuclear waste disposal. I'll have to google this.
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RE: Obama Tells SF Chronicle He Will Bankrupt Coal Indu... - 11/3/2008 2:51:33 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
quote:
I'm all for nuclear power. I work for the Navy, and I can tell you that these power plants are very safe. If these plants are ran per the Navy's standard, you'll never ever see a repeat of Three Mile Island. That's what McCain has been saying. But the Dems keep bringing up Yucca Mountain and the opposition to using it to store spent waste. Who do you think Obama is going to side with?
To be honest with you, I have not heard Obama talk about Yucca Mountain, just that he wanted safer nuclear waste disposal. I'll have to google this.
I don't know what you'll find on Obama talking about Yucca Mountain, he's just been saying that it has to be "safe." It's his party that has been decrying the safety of what to do with the spent waste. Hence my belief that when it gets right down to it he will tow the party line and declare that until there is a "safe" way to dispose of the fuel he will oppose new nuclear plants.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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