|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 11:44:30 AM
|
|
|
HigherNote4U
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
|
I hope that this thread doesn't get moved or deleted just because it has the word politics in it. I was just singing along to my favorite southern gospel CD and a weird question popped in my head.
How will the outcome of tomorrows election affect southern gospel groups? I am speaking of fulltime groups listed as incorporated companies, not regional or part-time non-profit groups.
I know that one party says that it will tax small businesses making over a certain amount per year. I know that on paper these groups do make this amount and am curious how much a tax policy like this will hurt southern gospel groups.
This may have already been discussed and to be honest I wish that I had thought about this earlier to discuss it in detail. Moderators, please don't move this as I think this topic greatly affects us as southern gospel fans and in some cases singers, musicians, etc.
What do you all think?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 11:47:42 AM
|
|
|
BBfan
Posts: 10835
Joined: 9/13/2007
From: SC Low Country
Status: offline
|
Will be interesting to see. Have to say...had not thought about the impact it would make on SGM but you're right...this could affect them too.
Just pray hard for a good outcome to tomorrow's election...that's what I'm doing.
_____________________________
~Lynn
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 12:03:47 PM
|
|
|
JoeyWest
Posts: 723
Joined: 10/1/2008
From: Alabama with a guitar in my hands
Status: offline
|
I believe this election is about the lesser of two evils. neither one is good for the country just who will do worst dmg is who to avoid.
as for groups, i believe the ecponomy will fall if one goes in. i can't say which. lets just say though keep your hands off what i worked hards to earn
_____________________________
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW.
If today was your last day
and tomorrow was too late
Could you say goodbye to yesterday?
Would you live each moment like your last? "Nickelback"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 12:11:25 PM
|
|
|
HigherNote4U
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
|
Yeah, I don't want us to get moved because we put our personal feelings in our statements. I just want everyone to think about what outcome could happen if these groups are pressed for even more money from the government ...the groups that are barely making it as it is.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 1:33:16 PM
|
|
|
Ps103
Posts: 11745
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
|
Okay, first, you can discuss the topic, but don't discuss politics if you want the thread to stay here, okay?
Second, you (business or individual) are taxed on your profits--you get to subtract expenses out before your taxable income is determined, if that makes you feel any better.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 1:47:08 PM
|
|
|
tafkam
Posts: 1981
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
|
As an artist, I'm already seeing the sluggish economy affect giving andf product sales.....and I believe this election, with the wrong man in office, will only make it much worse.
So yes, I see a potentially gloomy road ahead for many gospel artists...
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 2:21:38 PM
|
|
|
danielmount
Posts: 7650
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Second, you (business or individual) are taxed on your profits--you get to subtract expenses out before your taxable income is determined, if that makes you feel any better.
Good to know. Subtract bus costs and salary for the other singers and virtually every SG group would be under the quarter-million mark.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 4:00:23 PM
|
|
|
rogasinger4Him
Posts: 1011
Joined: 5/1/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ps103
Second, you (business or individual) are taxed on your profits--you get to subtract expenses out before your taxable income is determined, if that makes you feel any better.
Good to know. Subtract bus costs and salary for the other singers and virtually every SG group would be under the quarter-million mark.
Which means if they don't have an honest accountant keeping tabs on the financial stuff they better get one, but that goes for anyone making a substantial amount of money and having substantial expenses not just SGM artists.
_____________________________
Psalm 108: 1-5
Psalm 146: 1-2
http://www.myspace.com/rogasinger4him
Dana
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 4:39:35 PM
|
|
|
danielmount
Posts: 7650
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
|
I've seen in passing (Singing News interviews, whatever) an artist or two referring to fussing with accounting software. Doing things like accounting themselves (often because the financial resources just aren't there to hire a CPA) is just one of the many hassles the people leading groups put up with up to keep things rolling and keep the Gospel spreading.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 4:45:09 PM
|
|
|
frog43
Posts: 867
Joined: 5/22/2007
Status: offline
|
A majority of groups, especially those living around Nashville, use the services of accountants who specialize in the music business. I have heard of one or two who specialize in SG groups. They come up with many legitimate deductions that most people wouldn't think of on their own. It would be worth the fee.
_____________________________
Fully Relying On God
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 10:40:59 PM
|
|
|
Ps103
Posts: 11745
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
|
quote:
It would be worth the fee.
Well worth the fee.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 10:55:34 PM
|
|
|
PaulPate
Posts: 191
Joined: 3/28/2006
From: Branford, Florida
Status: offline
|
I think this is a good spot to say.... Pray for the election!
_____________________________
One Nation Under God
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 11:13:17 PM
|
|
|
Kerrlaw
Posts: 9462
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
Status: offline
|
quote:
How will the outcome of tomorrows election affect southern gospel groups? I am speaking of fulltime groups listed as incorporated companies, not regional or part-time non-profit groups.
I know that one party says that it will tax small businesses making over a certain amount per year. I know that on paper these groups do make this amount and am curious how much a tax policy like this will hurt southern gospel groups.
I know very little about taxes, but don't southern gospel corporations (as well as every other corporation) pay taxes now?
What does "on paper" mean? Are there gospel groups that are showing a taxable profit on the books, but aren't really getting any cash? That would seem strange to me.
My guess is that all taxes are going up, no matter who wins the election.
And if a SG artist is clearing over $250,000.00 after expenses:
1. Praise the Lord.
2. I don't want to hear about how hard it is for them to stay on the road.
_____________________________
That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
Coffee sinners lovers click here.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/3/2008 11:51:21 PM
|
|
|
HigherNote4U
Posts: 85
Joined: 4/10/2008
Status: offline
|
What I meant by "on paper" was all of the money taken in by the group on product / record sales, concert fees, love offerings, etc. I wasn't trying to imply anything illegal. An example would be if a group brought in only a total of about $5,000.00 a week for 52 weeks that would put them in the $260,000.00 catagory. For most pro groups this is not a hard thing to show.
I now understand that a lot of the expenses can be excluded out of that amount, but it would still be hard not to land in that catagory. I know of some groups that still get $5000.00 per concert. Do 4 per week and you do the math.
I know that there are a select few that can still make it, but I think I'm pretty sure I heard Brian Free say that last year they spent over $90,000 on fuel alone. I hate to even imagine what they will have spent this year with fuel prices being so high.
I just hope that a lot of the new up and coming groups don't get scared and ran off before they even get going good. There is some good "sangin" goin' on out there.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/4/2008 12:24:25 AM
|
|
|
Kerrlaw
Posts: 9462
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
Status: offline
|
I understand what you were saying now. I wasn't suggesting that anything illegal was going on. When I think of "on paper", I think of a situation where there is a loss "on paper" because non-cash flow expenses (such as depreciation) show a loss, when there has actually been a positive cash flow.
My understanding is that groups, like any other business, are taxed on their net (gross less expenses) income. I suspect that it is the expenses that are killing the groups.
I suppose my bottom line is that my perception of why SG artists are struggling (and will continue to do so) is that expenses, particularly travel expenses, are skyrocketing, credit is harder to get, and SG fans aren't willing to pay the higher ticket prices that country and pop fans will pay.
At random, I picked a popular country artist, Tim McGraw, and looked up an upcoming concert. Tickets ranged from $73.00 in the second balcony to over $400.00 each on the floor. I have heard southern gospel fans complaining about $18.00 to see four good groups.
Really don't think it's the taxes that hurt current groups or will scare off up and coming groups.
_____________________________
That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
Coffee sinners lovers click here.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/4/2008 6:09:46 AM
|
|
|
danielmount
Posts: 7650
Joined: 2/28/2006
From: Ohio
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
At random, I picked a popular country artist, Tim McGraw, and looked up an upcoming concert. Tickets ranged from $73.00 in the second balcony to over $400.00 each on the floor. I have heard southern gospel fans complaining about $18.00 to see four good groups.
But...a lot of that money goes to the concert promoter. Tim McGraw would get a set flat fee for the concert - perhaps $10,000, perhaps $20,000, but the cost of tickets sold doesn't directly go to him.
_____________________________
Author of The Faith of America's Presidents
http://www.danielmount.com/
http://www.southerngospelblog.com/
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/4/2008 6:47:39 AM
|
|
|
servants
Posts: 117
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Hays,NC
Status: offline
|
I know what you are saying Daniel but the point is they are still paying that for a ticket. I know some people that went last week to see Carrie Underwood and payed $65.00 a ticket and bought (2) $30.00 Tshirts. Now I have heard these same people talk about a southern gospel artist Tshirts being $15.00 and probably drop $20.00 in the love offering plate.
_____________________________
Thank God I'm Forever Changed.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/4/2008 7:52:44 AM
|
|
|
Seaton
Posts: 1339
Joined: 5/12/2006
From: Mooresville, NC
Status: offline
|
Working in the finance world as an accountant, as has already been mentioned taxes are paid on net income (gross income less expenses less deductions). How a certain entity is taxed can also be based on their corporate status. Entities can be classified as a C-Corp, S-Corp, LLC, non-profit, etc.
It's the expenses that are killing most Southern Gospel artists. I would be inclined to think that many in the Southern Gospel community probably operate at a net loss come year end so their actual tax liability would be $0.
And for those that are not operating at a loss there are many legitimate deductions that can be claimed to reduce taxable income.
The important piece is that Southern Gospel artists need to be operating their group as a business. Point out any successful artist in Southern Gospel music and I can guarantee they understand the importance of taking care of business (literally).
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/4/2008 9:26:22 AM
|
|
|
Kerrlaw
Posts: 9462
Joined: 5/24/2006
From: Big Orange Country
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
At random, I picked a popular country artist, Tim McGraw, and looked up an upcoming concert. Tickets ranged from $73.00 in the second balcony to over $400.00 each on the floor. I have heard southern gospel fans complaining about $18.00 to see four good groups.
But...a lot of that money goes to the concert promoter. Tim McGraw would get a set flat fee for the concert - perhaps $10,000, perhaps $20,000, but the cost of tickets sold doesn't directly go to him.
If a superstar likeTim McGraw is working for a $20,00.00 appearance fee, he needs to fire his agent immediately and hire me. I will work for 3% (or less) of what I can increase his revenue.
Examples of country star appearance fees:
Kenny Chesney - $400,000.00
Shania Twain - $300,000.00
Reba McInitre - $250,000.00
Brad Paisley - $250,000.00
Even way past their prime artists like Willie Nelson and Hank Williams, Jr. get $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 appearance fees.
_____________________________
That which does not kill us makes us fatter. ~ crankius
Coffee sinners lovers click here.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Southern Gospel and Politics - 11/4/2008 9:32:59 AM
|
|
|
robertyork
Posts: 7251
Joined: 3/23/2006
From: Marietta, GA
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
quote:
ORIGINAL: danielmount
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerrlaw
At random, I picked a popular country artist, Tim McGraw, and looked up an upcoming concert. Tickets ranged from $73.00 in the second balcony to over $400.00 each on the floor. I have heard southern gospel fans complaining about $18.00 to see four good groups.
But...a lot of that money goes to the concert promoter. Tim McGraw would get a set flat fee for the concert - perhaps $10,000, perhaps $20,000, but the cost of tickets sold doesn't directly go to him.
If a superstar likeTim McGraw is working for a $20,00.00 appearance fee, he needs to fire his agent immediately and hire me. I will work for 3% (or less) of what I can increase his revenue.
Examples of country star appearance fees:
Kenny Chesney - $400,000.00
Shania Twain - $300,000.00
Reba McInitre - $250,000.00
Brad Paisley - $250,000.00
Even way past their prime artists like Willie Nelson and Hank Williams, Jr. get $50,000.00 to $100,000.00 appearance fees.
But they have a live band.
_____________________________
NEXT CONCERT - TRIBUTE QUARTET & THE OLD PATHS
FEBRUARY 21 - ACWORTH, GA
< < < THE OLD PATHS - Doug, Jeremy, Tim
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
