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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/4/2008 5:06:35 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Just for the record.
While the Hawaii department of records has examined and confirmed that a typewritten COLB (Certificate of Live Birth) is on file in their records, they have disclosed NOTHING else.
Prehaps Obamas trip to Hawaii was timley?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/4/2008 5:09:48 PM
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Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
Dubya,
I was told by an Army lawyer when I was 11 years old that I couldn't run for President. We were doing a class project in the 6th grade (I was at a Department of Defense elementary school in Germany at the time) to see if those of us in class that were born in Germany were eligible to run for President and it turned out that NONE of us born in Germany were eligible, even though we were born on US Gov't property. Now, honestly, I haven't looked into it since then, so I don't know if the rules changed or not...
My guess is that the Army lawyer was wrong. You were born to US citizens - that fact alone makes you a "Natural Born" citizen which qualifies you under the Constitution. There is a lot of confusion between the terms "natural born" and "native born" - you were not "native born" but that is not what the Constitution requires.
In all of this nonsense about Obama, one of the issues was regarding his status IF he was actually born in Kenya. His US citizen mother was under 21 years of age at the time he was born and I believe the guy filing that lawsuit claimed the rules about passing on "natural born" status requires that at least one of the parents be a US citizen over 21 years of age. Hence the potential problem for Obama. If at least one of your parents were 21 years of age AND a US citizen at the time of your birth... congratulations Mr. President!
The reason I am familiar with this is that I have 2 children who were born overseas. I was well over 21 and a US citizen when they were born. We had this very same debate with their elementary school teachers after coming back to the US.
Don't let some stupid lawyer steal you dreams. It amazes me how many are so ignorant.
P.S. Good luck on your campaign!
LOL, thanks. I have no intentions of ever running for office. I'm actually beginning work on a theology degree in the hopes of maybe being a pastor some day. But, again, thanks for the support! 
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/4/2008 5:33:57 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Beanteaser
I have found a picture of Obama's actual birth certificate. Click HERE to see it.
LOL. At last WorldNut met its match.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/4/2008 7:39:57 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1017
Joined: 10/25/2006
From: Texas
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Just for the record.
While the Hawaii department of records has examined and confirmed that a typewritten COLB (Certificate of Live Birth) is on file in their records, they have disclosed NOTHING else.
Apparently, a judge has set a hearing for November 16th.
Who knows what will come out of that hearing. But, until the FULL CONTENTS of the original birth certificate are revealed there is absolutely NO way to prove or disprove Obama was actually born in Hawaii. It only proves that he was REGISTERED in Hawaii. Under the Constitution those distinction are very, very different.
Actually, my inclination to believe that the original COLB does NOT confirm his birth in Hawaii is that he has steadfastly refused to produce it, when it would be so easy to do. I have trouble understanding why a person would work so hard to keep it from public view.
I'm hoping that we will not need to see the document. For, should he win this election and then it be revealed that he does NOT actually qualify under the Constitution to actually sit in the position that he just won it could result in a bloodbath of epic proportions.
Unfortunately, people will not blame the one that put him in that position. They will blame our country and the Constitution. They will claim trickery and subterfuge. Their anger at losing their grasp of "hope and change" is going to be enormous. The question is, who will they think decieved them? And, what will HE do?
Folks it's not over... but, I wish it were. However, if it comes to peace at the cost of distaining the Constitution than I have to stand by the Constitution and let the chips fall where they may.
I am sure you have already answered this question, but exactly what is required on a birth certificate to prove a person was born in Hawaii (or anywhere else for that matter).
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/4/2008 7:57:33 PM
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coolfamily6
Posts: 338
Joined: 4/18/2005
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quote:
Qualifications for the Office of President
Age and Citizenship requirements - US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.
Term limit amendment - US Constitution, Amendment XXII, Section 1 – ratified February 27, 1951
No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
From: presidentusa.net
quote:
Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
From USConsitiution.net
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/4/2008 11:13:18 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
I am sure you have already answered this question, but exactly what is required on a birth certificate to prove a person was born in Hawaii (or anywhere else for that matter).
It's very simple. In 1961, there were computers; but, they were very expensive and very clumsy for the purposes of recording births. So, they would have been preprinted blank forms that the hospital would fill out with a typewriter. This would be called the Certificate of Live Birth as apposed to the Certification of Live Birth which is simply a computer generated form that attests that a Certification of Live Birth exists.
Here is the critical information that does NOT appear on the Certification of Live Birth that Obama has presented; but, DOES appear on the original Certificate of Live Birth for Hawaii in that time period.
1) The Hospital in which the Birth took place. (Not on Certification)
2) Place of Birth: City, Town or Rural Location (Only Mother's address on Certification)
3) Signature of Attendent (MD, D.O. Midwife, Other) (Not on Certification)
Here is a sample of a Hawaii long form from 1963. I suspect that it would be very similar to the one in 1961.
The question, of course, is WHY he will NOT reveal this version. Apparently, there is some question as to whether or not he was born in Kenya and immediately taken to Hawaii where his birth was registered. There are two reasons for these questions. First, his relatives in Kenya have claimed to have attended his birth there. And, two, some people have claimed that they were on a flight from Kenya matching his birth date where a young woman was removed from the flight due to having been too close to delivery.
These don't prove a thing. They simply raise some questions and his refusal to show the version that would settle the question raises even more doubts.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/5/2008 10:12:43 AM
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staticspark1947
Posts: 43
Joined: 6/11/2007
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There is a federal agency by the name of Federal Bureau of Investigations b.k.a. the FBI. Don't you doubters think that Obama has been investigated concerning his place of birth among other things?
Grow up people!! Barack Hussein Obama is the President-elect of America!!
Get over it!! Thank you Lord!! God Bless Obama!!
Go Bama!!!
_____________________________
PRAYER IS LIKE GAS IN OUR TANKS...WITHOUT ACTION ON OUR PART THE CAR DOES NOT MOVE!
I would rather be a living bible for all to see than to go around constantly quoting it for actions speak louder than words!!
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/5/2008 11:12:10 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: staticspark1947
There is a federal agency by the name of Federal Bureau of Investigations b.k.a. the FBI. Don't you doubters think that Obama has been investigated concerning his place of birth among other things?
Grow up people!! Barack Hussein Obama is the President-elect of America!!
Get over it!! Thank you Lord!! God Bless Obama!!
Go Bama!!!
The Democrats invent ways of munipulation
For example always accusing Bush for all the problems they created
http://www.aclj.org/News/Read.aspx?ID=3095
At the time there were Democrats in Congress who had accused the Bush administration of failing to “connect the dots” in the months leading up the 9/11 attacks, he recalled.
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/5/2008 12:32:43 PM
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staticspark1947
Posts: 43
Joined: 6/11/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: staticspark1947
There is a federal agency by the name of Federal Bureau of Investigations b.k.a. the FBI. Don't you doubters think that Obama has been investigated concerning his place of birth among other things?
Grow up people!! Barack Hussein Obama is the President-elect of America!!
Get over it!! Thank you Lord!! God Bless Obama!!
Go Bama!!!
The Democrats invent ways of munipulation
For example always accusing Bush for all the problems they created
http://www.aclj.org/News/Read.aspx?ID=3095
At the time there were Democrats in Congress who had accused the Bush administration of failing to “connect the dots” in the months leading up the 9/11 attacks, he recalled.
What does this have to do with an F.B.I. investigation?
_____________________________
PRAYER IS LIKE GAS IN OUR TANKS...WITHOUT ACTION ON OUR PART THE CAR DOES NOT MOVE!
I would rather be a living bible for all to see than to go around constantly quoting it for actions speak louder than words!!
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/5/2008 1:01:42 PM
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Mark328
Posts: 200
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dubya
quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
LOL, thanks. I have no intentions of ever running for office. I'm actually beginning work on a theology degree in the hopes of maybe being a pastor some day. But, again, thanks for the support!
Well I'm glad to see you are pursuing a higher calling.
May God richly bless your endeavors.
Thank you, Dubya. I'm more about faith than politics, which is why I don't consider either the Dems or the Repubs as "Christian" parties.
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/6/2008 12:59:26 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: staticspark1947
There is a federal agency by the name of Federal Bureau of Investigations b.k.a. the FBI. Don't you doubters think that Obama has been investigated concerning his place of birth among other things?
Grow up people!! Barack Hussein Obama is the President-elect of America!!
Get over it!! Thank you Lord!! God Bless Obama!!
Go Bama!!!
All your comment shows is the failure of the schools to teach the fundamentals of our government structure and workings. Somebody should grow up; but, it's not those to whom your insults were addressed.
Under the law, the President and Vice-President of the United States are exempted from having to undergo a Security Clearance. There are several reasons for why a candidate would NOT and CAN NOT be vetted by the FBI while all around them their associates would be.
It has to do with checks & balances.
If you'd gone to a decent school, you would have been taught that the FBI operates under the administration in power.
If the FBI were allowed to investigate a presidential hopeful, then that could mean that the current administration would have the power to discredit the candidates of apposing parties by reporting that they were not eligible or could not pass a Security Clearance.
Let me repeat that for every one to see....
If the FBI were allowed to investigate a presidential hopeful, then that could mean that the current administration would have the power to discredit the candidates of apposing parties by reporting that they were not eligible or could not pass a Security Clearance.
This would open up enormous opportunities for misuse of power and political corruption.
Now, here is why you are confused.
Here is the AP story about the statements released by Dr. Chiyome Fukino.
quote:
HONOLULU (AP) — State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.
Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Friday she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.
Fukino says that no state official, including Republican Gov. Linda Lingle, ever instructed that Obama's certificate be handled differently.
She says state law bars release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest.
Some Obama critics claim he was not born in the US.
Earlier Friday, a southwest Ohio magistrate rejected a challenge to Obama's citizenship. Judges in Seattle and Philadelphia recently dismissed similar suits.
And here is what she actually said.
quote:
For Immediate Release: October 31, 2008 08-93
STATEMENT BY DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
“There have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama’s official birth certificate. State law (Hawai‘i Revised Statutes §338-18) prohibits the release of a certified birth certificate to persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawaii, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.
“No state official, including Governor Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii.”
Please note that NOWHERE did she claim that Obama was BORN in Hawaii. The ONLY thing she confirms is that he was REGISTERED in Hawaii. The AP story, therefore is a blatant and deliberate lie.
So, here are the questions from a lawyer that should be asked of Dr. DR. CHIYOME FUKINO
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/6/2008 1:09:37 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/6/2008 1:39:27 PM
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coolfamily6
Posts: 338
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Meeks: Did you ever respond to post #57?
Post 57 was me. I was just answering the person above who asked about children born to parents on a military base.
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/6/2008 1:42:18 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: coolfamily6
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Meeks: Did you ever respond to post #57?
Post 57 was me. I was just answering the person above who asked about children born to parents on a military base.
I know, but Meeks is the perpetrator of this thread and should address this information.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/6/2008 1:44:03 PM
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coolfamily6
Posts: 338
Joined: 4/18/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: coolfamily6
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Meeks: Did you ever respond to post #57?
Post 57 was me. I was just answering the person above who asked about children born to parents on a military base.
I know, but Meeks is the perpetrator of this thread and should address this information.
Ok, I just wasn't sure if you read it as my saying anything for or against Obama.
_____________________________
If your bible is a mess; your life won't be.
~Encouragement a mom gave to our children at our First Grader's Bible Ceremony!
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/6/2008 3:54:54 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: coolfamily6
From: presidentusa.net
quote:
Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?
The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
a) Anyone born inside the United States
b) Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
c) Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
d) Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
e) Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
f) Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
g) Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
h) A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
From USConsitiution.net
If Obama was NOT born on the soil of Hawaii, then which of these articles would apply.
quote:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
No, because he would not have been born on United States soil.
quote:
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
No, because he is not a part of this ethnic group.
quote:
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents
both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
No, becuase his father was a Kenyan having UK citizenship. This requires BOTH parents to be citizens
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
No, because Obama's father was neither a 'national' nor a citizen of the United States.
quote:
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
No, because he would NOT have been born in possession. Kenya is NOT a U.S. Possession.
quote:
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
No, his parentage is known.
quote:
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
No, becuase his mother neither worked for the U.S. Government nor was in the military.
quote:
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
No, because he was born in 1961.
So, which of these did YOU think covered him?
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama's Birth Cert Verified - 11/6/2008 5:01:56 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Meeks: Did you ever respond to post #57?
a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
Did you miss the 'national; but not a citizen' part?
A 'National', as I understand it, is a person that was born in the United States; but, hold citizenship in another country.
This web site is more accurate than my original understanding. In any case, Obama's father does NOT quality for that category. So, the line you quote fails to make him a citizen if he was NOT born on Hawaiian soil.
Meeks, thanks for pointing that out. From State Department:
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.
Assuming, for sake of argument, Barack Obama was born outside the US, Ann Dunham would have been less than 90 days short of the above criteria, unless it could be shown she actually had residence outside the US. A visit to Kenya would not suffice. Obama, Sr. was a full-time student in Hawaii, graduating in 1962. The situation would have met the curent criteria.
So, to strip the President of the United States of the position over a technicality that he himself did not perpetrate is preposterous. And, Congress could easily pass a law granting citizenship to those born between 1952 and 1986 that meet the current criteria.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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