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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 11/25/2008 6:01:52 PM
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HighPlainsDrifter
Posts: 1304
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From: The Great Sioux Empire
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quote:
By the way, how do you lot explain away the announcement of Barack Obama's birth in the "Births, Marriages, and Deaths" column of the Honolulu Advertiser?
Well, see, there ya go. I can't understand why the judges in these various lawsuits haven't cited that impeccable evidence in their dismissals. Perhaps they're not being objective.
_____________________________
Give a hoot, eat yer Lute, Der's no risk in Lutefisk.
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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 11/25/2008 6:18:54 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 402
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Citing such evidence would imply there was a case to answer. There patently is not.
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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 11/25/2008 10:22:09 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The Constitution also supports the presumption of innocence, states' rights and the right to privacy. In this case, the "accusers" have yet to present anything but innuendo and rumor (where is that transcript, anyway?) in an effort to access records in the legal possession of of the State of Hawaii. Court orders are not meant for "fishing expeditions" or to satisfy curiosity or support PR campaigns.
Apparently the Republican Party and its candidate don't care about the constitution, either, huh.
I could care less about what the Republican Party thinks or does. And, frankly, they don't seem to be all that thrilled by having to abide by the Constitution either.
You completely fail to understand that if one can thumb their nose at one part of the Constitution and be a leader of this Country, then they can thumb their nose at any and ALL parts of the Constitution.
I've told you before that you willfully confuse PROSECUTION protections with ELIGIBILITY requirements. There is no hope that you will ever be astute enough to understand the issues if you can't even keep something that simple straight. NOBODY IS TRYING TO PROSECUTE HIM.
Try telling the State Department, the next time you need a passport, that you refuse to show proof of your ELIGIBILITY.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 11/25/2008 10:40:11 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
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This reply is just another sample of the shallow thinking of those that ridicule the need to see his original Certificate of Live Birth.  
THERE IS NO ARGUMENT THAT A REGISTRATION DOES NOT EXIST. THE ARGUMENT IS OVER THE NATURE OF THE REGISTRATION.
As I pointed out earlier, Hawaii law allows a resident that has had a child on foreign soil to register that child in Hawaii as long as that resident has claimed Hawaii as their permanent residence for at least a year. So, Obama's mother could have had him in Kenya and later registered him in Hawaii.
Let me point out the obvious.
1) Not a SINGLE person has come forward to say that they witnessed or knew about Obama's birth in Hawaii. NOT ONE. For all of my children there would be dozens.
2) Fukino and the person in charge of vital records only affirmed that they had seen the document. So what? We know it exists. What they FAILED to affirm was that it proved he was BORN in Hawaii... which is THE question. They also failed to affirm that it named a Hawaiian hospital or that an attending signature was on the document. They would not have to be specific. But, failing to even allude to these critical facts is important to note.
3) Not a SINGLE reporter has ever asked the question, "Did it prove he was born in Hawaii?" or "Did it name the Hospital in which he was born?" Why not. My theory is that the Hawaii papers are loath to probe if there is a possibility of a 'native son' that became President would be taken down by ineligibility.
4) As for the newspaper, all it proves is that he was registered under 338-17.8. That we know. It doesn't prove a thing about his birth. It ONLY demonstrates that he was registered. To prove otherwise one would have to have prove that in EVERY case, it was the HOSPITAL that informed the papers. But, that makes little sense since the office of vital statistics would have the compilation of ALL the hospital births. So, it was most likely gleaned from the point of registration at vital statistics and not the individual hospitals. THINK ABOUT IT.
Here is a website that claims DEFINITIVELY that the announcements came from the registrars office. And, they are using that to PROVE he was BORN in Hawaii! They apparently missed 338-17.8 too! 
A person claiming that something doesn't pass the 'common sense test' should at least have done their homework.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
By the way, how do you lot explain away the announcement of Barack Obama's birth in the "Births, Marriages, and Deaths" column of the Honolulu Advertiser? Investigators looked into and found that, back then, the newspaper would automatically print the births as they were passed along from the local hospitals to the local vital records office. Obama's parents did not pay or take any action to have their son's name included in the paper.
If he was not born in a Honolulu hospital, his name would not have been published where it was in that column, and there is absolutely no reason for Obama's parents to have somehow conspired with the hospital or the newspaper to get it included, since even if being born in Kenya to a natural born citizen disqualified him from running for president (which it doesn't) he would still have been an American citizen and fully qualified for everything that American citizenship (natural and naturalized) afforded him.
It makes for a great conspiracy theory, but it doesn't come close to passing the common sense test.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/25/2008 11:17:06 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
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I want to show everyone WHY we are in such sad shape when it comes to finding TRUTH.
OBAMA'S BIRTH ANNOUNCEMENT
The first is a blog that proudly declares that the announcement in a Hawaii newspaper 'PROVES HE WAS BORN IN HAWAII. It even goes on to expound on the the fact that it listed an address, proving they were never in Kenya! What DWEEB!
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php
First, we already KNEW that Obama's parents had a place in Hawaii for some time. That is NOT proof of ANYTHING. Secondly, the poster is apparently ignorant of the fact that the issue is NOT registration in Hawaii; but, BIRTHPLACE. And, that his mother, by Hawaiian law (338-17.8) could register him in Hawaii even if he'd been born in Kenya.
The fact that it was the Vital Statistics office that sent out the birth notices simply attests that he was REGISTERED in Hawaii, NOT born there.
WHAT FUKINO DID NOT SAY... BUT, CLAIMED BY NEWSPAPERS.
This one really makes me angry; because, the Seattle Times SHOULD know better. Here is a story where they claim that "State officials say there's no doubt Barack Obama was born in Hawaii."
Now, let's see what they REALLY Said!
For that, we go to The Honolulu Advertiser, while buying into the obfuscation, didn't change what their officials said.
So, here is what they actually said, "Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said today she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate."
They do NOT claim he was born in Hawaii. They only claim that his birth is REGISTERED in Hawaii and they have the Certificate of Live Birth. That's all. But, the Seattle Times readers wouldn't know that would they?
Here is the original Press Release. Does it declare that he was born in Hawaii?
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/25/2008 11:50:32 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/25/2008 11:30:16 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 402
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You know, I really do hope that the courts reject all the lawsuits without requiring anything more of Obama (which is exactly what they'll do, anyway).
At this stage, even if witnesses, documents, and photographs of the actual delivery were produced, most of the doubters here and elsewhere would simply claim that they were forgeries (as what happened with the certificate did produce). No amount of 9/11 evidence is good enough for the conspiracy theorists. and no amount of evidence will be good enough here either.
It would please me no end to see you guys continue to stew about this and stay busy churning out thousands upon thousands of words on this nonsense over the next eight years. After all, you know what they say about idle hands...
So, keep 'em guessing Mr President-Elect. It's fine by me!
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/25/2008 11:48:48 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
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That is an outright fabrication. You have no way of knowing how ANYONE would react to seeing the original documents. For one thing, a document that was typed in 1961 would be very hard to alter in 2008.
If the document lists a hospital and signature, as it should if he were born in Hawaii, the whole thing about the Birth Certificate goes away immediately. There could be the nuts that continue down other trails; but, I am NOT one of them.
Like it or not, there ARE those that believe the Constitution is STILL the law of the land and deserves to be FULLY observed by those that want to lead us. If you don't that is YOUR loss, not ours. But, I can tell you that people with your attitude are the ones easily led by the nose by charletons and frauds. They love you guys!
A person REALLY has to be stupid to admire someone that would run for president knowing they did not qualify by birth... and, counting on his charisma to shunt aside the very basis of our Union. That kind of narcissism is really going to come back to haunt his smug followers if, in fact, he was NOT born in Hawaii.
We don't know. But, we SHOULD know. Because, it's a question of character and personal integrity... the importance of which seems to constantly escape liberals.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
You know, I really do hope that the courts reject all the lawsuits without requiring anything more of Obama (which is exactly what they'll do, anyway).
At this stage, even if witnesses, documents, and photographs of the actual delivery were produced, most of the doubters here and elsewhere would simply claim that they were forgeries (as what happened with the certificate did produce). No amount of 9/11 evidence is good enough for the conspiracy theorists. and no amount of evidence will be good enough here either.
It would please me no end to see you guys continue to stew about this and stay busy churning out thousands upon thousands of words on this nonsense over the next eight years. After all, you know what they say about idle hands...
So, keep 'em guessing Mr President-Elect. It's fine by me!
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 12:35:35 AM
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tacitus
Posts: 402
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You can't fabricate an opinion, which is all I expressed.
It is my opinion that no matter what Obama does now, the issue will not go away. That's how conspiracy theories work -- they never die, no matter how much evidence is produced to debunk it. This issue entered conspiracy theory territory the moment Obama released his birth certificate (the one issue by the State of Hawaii, and accepted as genuine and as evidence that he is qualified to be POTUS by those that actually have a say in the matter) and it was decried as a forgery.
It's been downhill all the way since then.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 10:05:33 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
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Again, a fabrication of the facts.
There, apparently, IS no official ' those that actually have a say in the matter' that do not have a dog in the hunt, as they say in the south. No one, and I do mean NO ONE with an official ability to determine his qualifications has even seen the ONLY piece of paper that would definitively decide he was a 'natural born citizen' and not just a 'citizen'.
If you think I'm wrong about this, challenge you and anyone else to name such a person.
As far as we know, the ONLY people having seen that document, outside of Obama's immediate circle, are the two democrats that are its custodians and even they have not offered an opion as to his 'natural born' status.
If this is a 'conspiracy' it's not a very complicated one. It all hinges on one simple piece of paper that he has absolutely REFUSED to show to anyone.
Again, you adamantly refuse to see the difference between a document that shows one is a citizen and one that affirms that one is a 'natural born' citizen. They are two very different classifications of citizenry that require quite different levels of proof. Any 'citizen' can get a passport. But, only 'natual-born citizens' are eligible for president. I'll chalk it up to your public school upbringing that these differences allude you. Logic and discernment aren't a priority in education these days. But, they were in the schools I attended. Details ARE important.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
You can't fabricate an opinion, which is all I expressed.
It is my opinion that no matter what Obama does now, the issue will not go away. That's how conspiracy theories work -- they never die, no matter how much evidence is produced to debunk it. This issue entered conspiracy theory territory the moment Obama released his birth certificate (the one issue by the State of Hawaii, and accepted as genuine and as evidence that he is qualified to be POTUS by those that actually have a say in the matter) and it was decried as a forgery.
It's been downhill all the way since then.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 11/26/2008 10:26:13 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I've told you before that you willfully confuse PROSECUTION protections with ELIGIBILITY requirements. There is no hope that you will ever be astute enough to understand the issues if you can't even keep something that simple straight. NOBODY IS TRYING TO PROSECUTE HIM.
Try telling the State Department, the next time you need a passport, that you refuse to show proof of your ELIGIBILITY.
Technically, you accuse the State of Hawaii. Still no evidence worthy of a court's interest.
The State Department wanted a document, and I gave it. It's the same document as Obama's, just from another state.
If Martin, et al aren't trying to prosecute him, why are you trying to access vital records and demanding he produce some documents on your behalf?
Fifty states certified Obama's eligibility for their ballots.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 11:45:02 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Again, a fabrication of the facts.
There, apparently, IS no official ' those that actually have a say in the matter' that do not have a dog in the hunt, as they say in the south. No one, and I do mean NO ONE with an official ability to determine his qualifications has even seen the ONLY piece of paper that would definitively decide he was a 'natural born citizen' and not just a 'citizen'.
If you think I'm wrong about this, challenge you and anyone else to name such a person.
As far as we know, the ONLY people having seen that document, outside of Obama's immediate circle, are the two democrats that are its custodians and even they have not offered an opion as to his 'natural born' status.
If this is a 'conspiracy' it's not a very complicated one. It all hinges on one simple piece of paper that he has absolutely REFUSED to show to anyone.
Again, you adamantly refuse to see the difference between a document that shows one is a citizen and one that affirms that one is a 'natural born' citizen. They are two very different classifications of citizenry that require quite different levels of proof. Any 'citizen' can get a passport. But, only 'natual-born citizens' are eligible for president. I'll chalk it up to your public school upbringing that these differences allude you. Logic and discernment aren't a priority in education these days. But, they were in the schools I attended. Details ARE important.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
You can't fabricate an opinion, which is all I expressed.
It is my opinion that no matter what Obama does now, the issue will not go away. That's how conspiracy theories work -- they never die, no matter how much evidence is produced to debunk it. This issue entered conspiracy theory territory the moment Obama released his birth certificate (the one issue by the State of Hawaii, and accepted as genuine and as evidence that he is qualified to be POTUS by those that actually have a say in the matter) and it was decried as a forgery.
It's been downhill all the way since then.
TM, seems to be a waste of time showing facts with common sense.
The Obama followers could care less if he was Ben Ladin himself.
The government brain washing, and dumbing down, has done a stupendous job
the last 40 years.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 2:55:25 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
TM, seems to be a waste of time showing facts with common sense.
What facts?
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 4:46:46 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1085
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Again, a fabrication of the facts.
There, apparently, IS no official ' those that actually have a say in the matter' that do not have a dog in the hunt, as they say in the south. No one, and I do mean NO ONE with an official ability to determine his qualifications has even seen the ONLY piece of paper that would definitively decide he was a 'natural born citizen' and not just a 'citizen'.
If you think I'm wrong about this, challenge you and anyone else to name such a person.
As far as we know, the ONLY people having seen that document, outside of Obama's immediate circle, are the two democrats that are its custodians and even they have not offered an opion as to his 'natural born' status.
If this is a 'conspiracy' it's not a very complicated one. It all hinges on one simple piece of paper that he has absolutely REFUSED to show to anyone.
Again, you adamantly refuse to see the difference between a document that shows one is a citizen and one that affirms that one is a 'natural born' citizen. They are two very different classifications of citizenry that require quite different levels of proof. Any 'citizen' can get a passport. But, only 'natual-born citizens' are eligible for president. I'll chalk it up to your public school upbringing that these differences allude you. Logic and discernment aren't a priority in education these days. But, they were in the schools I attended. Details ARE important.
quote:
ORIGINAL: tacitus
You can't fabricate an opinion, which is all I expressed.
It is my opinion that no matter what Obama does now, the issue will not go away. That's how conspiracy theories work -- they never die, no matter how much evidence is produced to debunk it. This issue entered conspiracy theory territory the moment Obama released his birth certificate (the one issue by the State of Hawaii, and accepted as genuine and as evidence that he is qualified to be POTUS by those that actually have a say in the matter) and it was decried as a forgery.
It's been downhill all the way since then.
TM, seems to be a waste of time showing facts with common sense.
The Obama followers could care less if he was Ben Ladin himself.
The government brain washing, and dumbing down, has done a stupendous job
the last 40 years.
Do you think it might have been intentional on the government's part? 
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 4:48:01 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1085
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Off topic, but ya'll have a great Thanksgiving!
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 9:37:08 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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The fact that you have absolutely NO idea where he was born. The fact that you don't care. And, the fact that a president is duty bound to UPHOLD the Constitution, not go around it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
TM, seems to be a waste of time showing facts with common sense.
What facts?
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 9:39:36 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
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It WOULD be a waste of time if I were trying to convince them. That's impossible. But, the goal is really to demonstrate the primacy of the Constitution over any leader. And, we've been able to hammer that home with every reply.
Liberals remind me of teenagers that choose to smoke because they want to be in the cool crowd. Being 'suave' is more important than the ramifications down the road. Being a 'sophisticated Liberal', in their eyes is WAY more urbane and suave than being a 'Conservative'. But, here again, they're so short-sighted that they cannot even begin to imagine the long term ramifications of the policies they clamor for today.
So, it is the Conservative that has the sharpest long term vision and the Liberal that opts, instead, for instant gratification. But, sooner or later most of them grow up (except for the 60's hippies still wearing ponytails! ), acquire some insight and become Adult Conservatives.
The problem, right now, is that the adults are outnumbered by the "Gimme" crowd... as, we can see, it's even true of the Church. Which is why Jesus was very pointed in saying that he would spew the latter day church out of His mouth.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
TM, seems to be a waste of time showing facts with common sense.
The Obama followers could care less if he was Ben Ladin himself.
The government brain washing, and dumbing down, has done a stupendous job
the last 40 years.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/26/2008 9:57:08 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/26/2008 10:19:54 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
The fact that you have absolutely NO idea where he was born. The fact that you don't care. And, the fact that a president is duty bound to UPHOLD the Constitution, not go around it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
TM, seems to be a waste of time showing facts with common sense.
What facts?
The evidence supports Hawaiian birth. No one has shown anything to the contrary.
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/27/2008 10:23:49 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
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How many times do you have to be told that the evidence supports a Hawaiian Birth Registration. Certainly, in the absence of seeing the actual original birth certificate, one could say the evidence WEIGHS IN FAVOR of his having been born in Hawaii if that was all one had to go on. The REASON no one has shown anything to the contrary is that only the original document could prove otherwise.
If it makes you feel better, in case Alan Keyes wins the right to look at the original document, we may have already had a president that was not a natural born citizen. It was rumored that Chester A. Arthur was not a natural-born citizen and may have been born in Canada. He had the good fortune of being from a place that did not keep official birth records.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
The fact that you have absolutely NO idea where he was born. The fact that you don't care. And, the fact that a president is duty bound to UPHOLD the Constitution, not go around it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
TM, seems to be a waste of time showing facts with common sense.
What facts?
The evidence supports Hawaiian birth. No one has shown anything to the contrary.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 11/29/2008 10:28:04 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
How many times do you have to be told that the evidence supports a Hawaiian Birth Registration. Certainly, in the absence of seeing the actual original birth certificate, one could say the evidence WEIGHS IN FAVOR of his having been born in Hawaii if that was all one had to go on. The REASON no one has shown anything to the contrary is that only the original document could prove otherwise.
"Could" is nothing but speculation (at best).
_____________________________
Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 11/29/2008 11:12:54 AM
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rhippie
Posts: 558
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Fifty states certified Obama's eligibility for their ballots.
Cow
Surely you are smart enough to realize that the only criteria for getting your name on the ballot is either by being a "major" party candidate or collecting enough signatures to do so? There are no other requirements such as proof of eligibility to actually ho0ld the office you are running for.
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 11/30/2008 8:00:27 AM
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ken1906_4
Posts: 256
Joined: 10/6/2006
From: Maryland
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I came across this article about this issue and the possible law suit.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/26/1689515.aspx#comments
The thing that stood out to me was this statement...
quote:
Obama may have been born in the United States, Donofrio argues, but "natural born" status depends on both parents being American citizens. Obama's father was Kenyan.
With this logic we can eliminate a heap of people here in America from being president which include Colin Powell (parents were from Jamaica), Bobby Jindal (parents from India), Bill Richardson (mother born in Spain, father born in Nicaragua) and others. My father (Jamaica) was not from here so that means I'm not a natural born citizen of this country?
Can someone help me understand.
I honestly think this case against Obama does not hold any water.
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"Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is like choosing between the Pharisees and Sadducees. Both are enemies of Christ."
True colors are being revealed
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 12/1/2008 9:06:16 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6355
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The evidence supports Hawaiian birth. No one has shown anything to the contrary.
At best, that birth certificate has been shown to be a forgery. At worse, a very dubious cert that needs to be investigated because of such.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 12/1/2008 9:24:23 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3970
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The evidence supports Hawaiian birth. No one has shown anything to the contrary.
At best, that birth certificate has been shown to be a forgery. At worse, a very dubious cert that needs to be investigated because of such.
Actually, it has been shown to be no such thing. But the contention illustrates that no document will be accepted by the Obama-wasn't-born-here crowd. You should at least find a catchy name for yourselves (e.g, Swift Boaters, 9/11 Truthers, etc).
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Nobody ever heard of Acid Rain before we sent people into space.
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RE: This is the kind of drivel that we find on the web - 12/1/2008 10:37:51 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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"Constitution Defenders 2008" good enough for you?
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The evidence supports Hawaiian birth. No one has shown anything to the contrary.
At best, that birth certificate has been shown to be a forgery. At worse, a very dubious cert that needs to be investigated because of such.
Actually, it has been shown to be no such thing. But the contention illustrates that no document will be accepted by the Obama-wasn't-born-here crowd. You should at least find a catchy name for yourselves (e.g, Swift Boaters, 9/11 Truthers, etc).
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Andy Martin Hearing took place - 12/1/2008 10:48:05 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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You reply simply demonstrates why so many people are so easily decieved. They don't pay attention and they accept illogical conclusions as fact.
Don't pay attention
The two U.S. Citizen rule only applies to those born abroad. So, that would NOT include the people you say it does. Go back and check, this time paying attention to the details.
Accept Illogical Conclusions as Fact
Here is the quote from the article.
quote:
Then, on Oct. 31st, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health issued a statement, proclaiming that he had personally seen and verified that the state has "Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record," which shows that he was born there.
The conclusion the writer draws is based on their own inability to pay attention or to research the possibilities. As we have already pointed out, Hawaii lets parents POST-REGISTER any child born abroad as long as those parents lived in Hawaii a year before the birth. Therefore, is a completely FALSE conclusion that the mere presence of a birth certificate on record in Hawaii "shows that he was born there".
Finally, the article is based on the weaker of the three cases. Notice that Keye's case is not mentioned? Of the three, his is the most likely to find some traction due to the 'standing' issue.
The fact that a 'news person' at MSNBC is completely clueless shouldn't surprise us. What is surprizing is just how many Americans are ready to follow and rely on the clueless for their information.
quote:
ORIGINAL: ken1906_4
I came across this article about this issue and the possible law suit.
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/11/26/1689515.aspx#comments
The thing that stood out to me was this statement...
quote:
Obama may have been born in the United States, Donofrio argues, but "natural born" status depends on both parents being American citizens. Obama's father was Kenyan.
With this logic we can eliminate a heap of people here in America from being president which include Colin Powell (parents were from Jamaica), Bobby Jindal (parents from India), Bill Richardson (mother born in Spain, father born in Nicaragua) and others. My father (Jamaica) was not from here so that means I'm not a natural born citizen of this country?
Can someone help me understand.
I honestly think this case against Obama does not hold any water.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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