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We've Voted - Now What? - 11/4/2008 9:04:11 AM
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speaking
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You've cast your ballot and you hear the announcment that Candidate X has won.
Now what?
This thread is for your predictions of the future.
What do you expect to see happen now that Candidate X has won?
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/5/2008 4:49:12 AM
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dinomax55
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A lot of hard work. With multiple crises, It's going to be difficult- with either McCain or Obama. I pray that we as believers can get past our political differences and work to re-build the country, and to win hearts for God.
The church has a lot of work to do as well. We need to refocus on 'helping the orphans and widows', as it was mentioned on another thread. Enough with the politicizing of the church- it was doomed from the start, because that's not what God has mandated us to do.
_____________________________
We can never achieve perfection.. but if we chase perfection we will catch excellence.
-Vince Lombardi
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/5/2008 7:00:54 AM
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ekserekseez
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Now we hope that there are enough people left who aren't dazzled by socialism to try to rebuild our economy and military.
And do NOT make the mistake (again) of hoping that the GOP will fix things. They are worse than the Dems, who at least admit publicly that they're Marxists.
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Welcome to the Obama Nation! - 11/5/2008 7:26:05 AM
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Strider33
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Yesterday, the country took a sharp turn to the left. Not only with the election of Obama, but with the make up of Congress. The country took a sharp turn to the right in 1980, which began the Reagan revolution. This election ended it.
McCain will offer a gracious concession. Many McCain supporters and voters will also exress the idea that we should all work together for what's good for the country. Those statements will come with varying degrees of sincerity.
Obama will begin to work really hard to choose a cabinet, his Chief of Staff, his advisors and the rest of his appointed staff. The media suggested that he might name a few Republicans to key posts, and even ask Gates to stay on for a while. I don't expect that. I expect he'll want loyalists at least in Defense, State, Labor, Commerce, and HHS. He may draw heavily on Clinton administration people for the sake of their prior experience. Maybe Robert Reich for Treasury. Republican cabinet appointments will come later, at less critical posts. Obama is inexperienced, and he's smart enough to know it. The cabinet and advisors he chooses will make or break the first two years of his presidency.
Look for a short honeymoon. Conservatives are angry. It won't take them long to organize a wall of filibusters in the Senate. Obama will probably be able to pass the repeal of the Bush tax cut, but after that, he'll run into opposition. There will probably be a second stimulus package before he takes office.
As far as the tax cut that reduces taxes on 95% of working Americans, the devil is in the details. The fact that 40% of working Americans pay no federal income tax will get in the way. It means that, to fulfill that pledge, he's going to have to put millions of americans into negative income tax territory. Look for opposition to that.
As far as raising capital gains taxes, he'll probably get advice that such a course of action would result in a massive flight of European investment in the US. He'll probably listen to that advice, and quietly shelve that piece of his package.
As far as fixing the health care system, look for a package that's something like the Canadian system.
As far as halting the flow of jobs overseas, that's where Obama will be up against forces that are stronger than he is. And I'm not talking about conservatives here. I'm talking about global capitalism. The Chinese may be communists, but they are the biggest capitalists in the world. The second biggest is India. Don't look for either China or India to stop trying to gain market share.
As far as the credit crunch and the recession goes, look for the recession to last until about June. The US consumer economy is not going to return to 2007 levels anytime soon. US consumers will be limited, not by their own confidence, but by limited access to credit and by limited income.
As far as global warming goes, look for Obama to do something dramatic, but without immediate impact. As far as alternative energy goes, look for Obama to start a lot of government programs based on everything from wind to geothermal to more ethanol. Government programs don't outperform the free market, but the Obama folks don't agree with me. Not yet.
As far as taxpayer support for faith based NGOs, forget it. If you want to engage in faith based initiatives, you'll have to raise your own funds, regardless of the social merit of your actions.
Look for conservative Supreme court justices to try to hang on for another four years. A few of the old liberals will resign, and be replaced by other liberals. Obama will have a hard time getting confirmation of lower court judges, just as Bush and Clinton did before him.
Meanwhile, what more important to me is what will happen to the larger Evangelical church? As I said in another thread, we will have much to forgive each other for. Many of us consider the other faction's vote to be not only in error, but also against God's will. We are going to have to get beyond that before we can begin to work together to do God's will. I don't know how long that forgiving process is going to take.
(The title of this comment is a little joke. Please don't take it seriously).
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Welcome to the Obama Nation! - 11/5/2008 9:02:52 AM
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SonInMe1
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I predict in 6 months, his liberal pals will turn on President Obama.
That is their track record.
For all his promises President Obama won't get much done.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Welcome to the Obama Nation! - 11/5/2008 9:34:00 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
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From: Lone Star State
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quote:
You've cast your ballot and you hear the announcment that Candidate X has won.
Now what? The sun still rises in the mornings and will set at night. The Throne is still occupied by Him who knows best.
quote:
This thread is for your predictions of the future.
What do you expect to see happen now that Candidate X has won? Politically, the Democrat party did not get a super majority, only gaining 2 seats in the Senate and 12 instead of 35 in the House. As I've said elsewhere, if conservatives will run as conservatives and take a stand on policies rather than being wishy-washy, they will win. That starts at home though, not in DC. So, what I expect to see is a revolt of sorts against what the GOP has become, to change it into the party it needs to be, favoring small government and less intrusion onto our lives.
So the battle begins against the entrenched establishment. It needs to be fought.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Welcome to the Obama Nation! - 11/5/2008 10:24:04 AM
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TorchHeart
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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With any luck, the Republicans will actually follow John McCain's gracious lead in his concession speech and work WITH Obama to try and fix things in this country, rather than simply focus on trying to sabatoge his Presidency so they can get back in power. In addition, the Democrats need to actually ACCEPT Republican help, rather than simply try and shove a bunch of questionable policies down their throat.
This election should be a wake-up call to ALL of Washington about just how tired of this inner-party whining and greed America has become.
Both parties have gone for over 20 years with this "Party First" attitude. Now its time to change that. I firmly believe that this country will not be able to withstand another 4-8 years of bickering in Congress and self-indulgence by the man at the top.
I pray that this is what finally happens.
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RE: Welcome to the Obama Nation! - 11/5/2008 11:00:15 AM
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EStan
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I'm curious as to what the admins are planning for this folder, now that the election is over. General political discussion? Or does it all go back to the CE folder? I personally like the idea of having a separate area to discuss politics.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Welcome to the Obama Nation! - 11/5/2008 12:45:29 PM
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PaleHawkWoman
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We all need to remember that along with the rights of citizenship come the responsibilities- start taking an active role in your local community. Learn the issues, get to know your fellow citizens- and not just the ones who look or think like you do. There's a HUGE difference between the "opposition" and the "enemy", and your neighbors deserve better than to be blown off or demonized just because their politics and other views differ from yours. They are human beings and deserve to be treated according to the Golden Rule. Its easier to effect change when you can work with people and they can work with you,and mutual respect has to be present for this to happen.
Pray for our elected leaders, speak respectfully to and about them, and make sure you keep in contact with their staff so that they know how people are thinking about the issues and to remind the officials that they are being held accountable. Again, use the utmost respect in your correspondence so that your words are taken seriously. America is a right-of-center nation, largely moderate, and the election went the way it did because people are fed up with the status-quo. A lot of things need to change from the bottom up, or from the top down as it were, and we all need to keep that in mind. We have serious problems that we areall going to have to work on, and we will all have to make sacrifices in order to get the job done.
Partisan bickering and fillibustering and all of the other juvenile, selfish, sour-grapes behavior is unnecessary, unacceptable, destructive to this country's well-being, and should not be tolerated by we the people. We have the responsibility to get onto our elected officials if they engage in this behavior and throw them out of office if they refuse to grow up and uphold the honor of their office with mature, intelligent thought, words, and actions.
We the people also have the responsibility to act like grown-ups and honor our roles as citizens of this nation- spiritually and emotionally mature, intelligent and educated, honest, hard-working and self-sacrificing, responsible and responsive. If it is true that our leaders are a reflection of ourselves, then we need to be the leaders we want to have.
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We Vote Now What - 11/5/2008 3:02:02 PM
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stormin53
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Quote from a retired pastor's blog.
"As we conservatives now wander in the wilderness, we have an opportunity to reassess, to return to our roots, to study and renew. BUT, we are not simply conservatives. Too many Christians make a facile connection here. Secular Conservativism and Biblical Christianity have much in common, but they are not identical by any means. We must return to our Biblical roots about economics and government, about poverty and welfare, about “Human Rights” and Justice. These are issues I study and write about on my website Reformedliving.org. The Obama victory is a fact. We must live with that and move on, keeping him and our Nation in our prayers. We must work at being more vigilant and better prepared to handle assaults on conservative and Biblical principles with knowledge, intelligence and skill. Most of all, we must teach them to a future generation who will cherish and defend them, as well as live by them as Americans, whatever their skin color might be."
Full text at http://www.calvinfox.com/blog
Well stated, in my opinion.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/5/2008 3:43:12 PM
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ekserekseez
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quote:
Secular Conservativism and Biblical Christianity have much in common, but they are not identical by any means.
Good point! You get it when I say that I don't care if someone performed zero abortions or a million, if he lowers my taxes, I'm voting for him.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/5/2008 8:22:20 PM
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SonInMe1
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quote:
work WITH Obama
That would compromise biblical principles.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/5/2008 11:30:34 PM
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leonfigg3
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
work WITH Obama
That would compromise biblical principles.
I may be a glutten for punsihment, or at least, enjoy the challenge of carrying on a conversation with someone I know I am going to disaggree with. Just the same, though, I feel that your one line response deserves further explanation and even discussion.
What Biblical principles are you talking about.
Which Biblical princples are you affraid may be threatened through further discussion and examination of issues?
How is the cause of Christ and the gospel really threatened?
How can discussion and examination of political issues, within the framework of political reality and necessity hinder Christian princples?
I do not mean to take this discuusion off topic, but I believe thatthis may be the first of many discussion that will exist over the next four years.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/6/2008 8:17:29 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
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From: Lone Star State
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
I got sidetracked. Now that I have voted and proved what an ignoramus I really am I am going to vow to make myself almost as knowledgeable as or as knowledgeable as or dare I say more knowledgeable about the politics in my state that StephK is about hers. 
That is good, for that is where the craft of politics as practiced will affect your harder. There was a popular bumpersticker out not too long ago, it said "Think globally - Act locally". Good advice.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/6/2008 8:28:23 AM
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SonInMe1
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The agenda that Joseph followed was God's not the Pharoh's. To work WITH someone is fine and dandy but we cannot contradict biblical principles in doing so. Worjking with someone indicates a compromise to their beliefs.
That is bad.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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Conservative voters - 11/6/2008 8:32:06 AM
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Strider33
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
Politically, the Democrat party did not get a super majority, only gaining 2 seats in the Senate and 12 instead of 35 in the House. As I've said elsewhere, if conservatives will run as conservatives and take a stand on policies rather than being wishy-washy, they will win.
Ben,
I'm going to use the quote above as the starting point for what may become a rather spirited debate. I'm hoping that neither you nor I will slip into bitter attacks against the other. If we do, we need to forgive each other, correct ourselves, and pick up the debate again.
While I might turn out to be "less conservative" than you are, I don't intend my remarks to weaken the conservative cause. I'd actually like to see a stronger conservative coalition in 2010 and 2012 than we saw this year. As I'll detail later in this topic, I think conservatism is a coalition of fairly widely diverse views.
I don't think there are enough conservative voters in this country to elect a conservative president or a conservative congress. I don't think running as a "real conservative" is enough to draw millions of hidden voters out of the woodwork, or to persuade millions who voted for Obama last tuesday to switch to a conservative candidate. I think that any conservative who prevails in a race for national office has to rely on millions of votes from moderates and middle of the roaders.
I think that McCain prevailed over some more conservative candidates in the primary season precisely because he was a "maverick Republican" and not a straight conservative politician. Fred Thompson, Mike Huckabee, and Mitt Romney were all arguably "more conservative" than John McCain. The people didn't nominate any of them.
Conservatism has, to some extent, fallen in popular grace with the fall in popularity of president George Bush. Bush's declining popularity is not due exclusively or even principally to his conservatism. But he has made conservatism seem less lustrous to the broad mass of Americans than Ronald Regan made it seem.
Political conservatives are really a broad coalition of various kinds of conservatives. There are social conservatives, economic conservatives, fiscal conservatives, constitutional conservatives, and global conservatives at the very least. There are probably more. And, while there are plenty of conservatives who belong in more than one of the above groups, there is enough divergence between these groups so that keeping the coalition together is hard work indeed.
I think all of the above categories are self explanatory, except for the difference between "economic" and "fiscal" conservatives. Economic conservatives prefer capitalism to any form of centrally planned economy, regardless of whether you call it "socialism", "the new deal", or anything in between. Fiscal conservatives favor both balanced budgets and low tax burdens. Many people are both, but it's possible to be one without being the other.
You might disagree with some or all of what I've said. I look forward to a spirited discussion that is not bitter.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Conservative voters - 11/6/2008 10:08:40 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
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From: Lone Star State
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Strider, I am not much of a "debater", so forgive me if I say my piece and move on, or if I don't hit all the points that are brought up by you.
As for there being not "enough conservative voters" in the land, that depends a great deal on how one defines conservatism. What has been shown to us in these past few years in nothing at all that I call conservatism. In my view it is just more of the same of what the "other" side is. Why would a voter want to support a pretend liberal when they could go for the real thing?
Conservative values do appeal to Americans. The "Reagan Democrats" didn't come out of thin air, his conservative message appealed to them. But to come to today, sub groups of the conservative movement aside, people want representatives who have stands on issues that affect them, locally for the most part. Taxes of all kinds (property, sales, income), education (Public education, something that hasn't really been addressed by conservatives), health care (polls show that for women under thirty that is THE main issue for them) are some of the issues that need to be addressed by whatever party takes on the conservative mantle. The GOP MUST redefine itself to attract those out there who have been known as Reagan Dems, and it must get its leadership out of the beltway in DC.
For the reasons above, Juan McCain wasn't the guy. If you are going to make pork barrel spending an issue and then late in the campaign vote a 3/4 trillion dollar spending package with 1.5 billion in pork that just doesn't cut it! You don't outdo the other guy by going further then him in promising a government buy out of all bad mortgages! No, McCain wasn't the standard bearer of conservatism.
Bush also did not and does not define conservatism. Making government larger than ever before and increasing spending (aside from the military) beyond a large governments defender's dream doesn't cut it with Americans.
quote:
I think that McCain prevailed over some more conservative candidates in the primary season precisely because he was a "maverick Republican" and not a straight conservative politician. Fred Thompson, Mike Huckabee, and Mitt Romney were all arguably "more conservative" than John McCain. The people didn't nominate any of them. McCain was not the people's choice. I feel he was chosen by the media after New Hampshire went for him VERY early on. THEY were the ones who revitalized his then dead campaign. THEY made him the "front runner" for the Republican party. THEY were the ones who pushed his name and promoted him. By the time the primary voting got to the states who should have had a lot to say in choosing the candidate it was all over. The primary process needs change, big change, but I don't have an answer to that. Have them all be within one month of each other? All I know is, and you've seen it too, the process last much too long and by the beginning of November every four years all people want is for it to be over.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Conservative voters - 11/6/2008 12:15:03 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2350
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quote:
The agenda that Joseph followed was God's not the Pharoh's. To work WITH someone is fine and dandy but we cannot contradict biblical principles in doing so. Worjking with someone indicates a compromise to their beliefs.
That is bad.
How do we reconcile the fact or in my case how do I reconcile the fact that I have to work with people that don't share my beliefs in God, morals or how best to work for my factory? That's my job and it's how I eat. I've never had a job where I worked fully with or worked for christians.
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Conservative voters - 11/6/2008 1:26:32 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1085
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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I gotta disagree with this statement. My opinion is that, outside of the choice of Sarah Palin as his running mate, there was very little that was conservative in McCain's campaign. His message was all over the place, talking about one thing on one day and something different the next day.
I think the election of the Obamessiah will make Jimmy Carter's presidency look pretty good, in comparison. Remember, Carter was elected mainly as a backlash against Nixon and Ford's pardon of Nixon. He was the most inept administrator to ever occupy the Oval Office. The country wised up after four years of agony and elected a true conservative in Ronald Reagan.
It was Carter's total ineptitude that brought out the conservatives from both parties to the voting booths in 1980. We are still here, just very disappointed in the choices made by the Republican Party in recent years. In spite of all we have spoken about, the party chose McCain as their candidate.
In case no one has noticed, many conservatives in public office have been chased out of office through the combined efforts of the news media, democrats, and with the help of the Country Club, blue-blood Republicans. Newt Gingrich, Tom DeLay, and others, though they may not have been lily-white, were thrown out. Rick Lazio in NY and Rick Santorum in PA received only token support of the party in their election bids.
However, democrats can do no wrong. When was the last time we heard about Charlie Rangel's tax evasion, etc? Most of us conservatives are waiting for the Obamessiah bubble to burst so that we can pick up the pieces and get the country back where it belongs.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
I don't think there are enough conservative voters in this country to elect a conservative president or a conservative congress. I don't think running as a "real conservative" is enough to draw millions of hidden voters out of the woodwork, or to persuade millions who voted for Obama last tuesday to switch to a conservative candidate. I think that any conservative who prevails in a race for national office has to rely on millions of votes from moderates and middle of the roaders.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Conservative voters - 11/6/2008 1:40:59 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
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quote:
Country Club, blue-blood Republicans.
This would be me, and you would be correct.
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RE: Conservative voters - 11/6/2008 3:15:47 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1085
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I'm guessing this is something you're proud of?
quote:
ORIGINAL: ekserekseez
quote:
Country Club, blue-blood Republicans.
This would be me, and you would be correct.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Conservative voters - 11/6/2008 4:03:43 PM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I'm guessing this is something you're proud of?
No, just the truth. I'm not proud or ashamed of it, just like I'm not proud or ashamed of being Scots-Irish-Welsh, or of being red haired, or of being very tall. It's just part of me.
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