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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/14/2008 10:42:37 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:
That's because it's become clear you have an issue with Christians dealing with the law...
I have trouble with zealots of their own beliefs, and view of what it means to be a Christian.
quote:
For the record I have NEVER advocated only dealing with abortion through the law... Never...
Then why does it seem that you do little else but talk about nothing but the government and the law?
You have yet to mention, in our conversations, a whole lot about ministring to others. In fact you seem to say that to do so is "excusing" their behavior, and not being a real Christian, or at least a "hypocritical" Christian.
Till we meat again.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/14/2008 11:12:21 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
Then why does it seem that you do little else but talk about nothing but the government and the law?
Because that is the nature of the topic in this part of the forum... And yet I have mentioned dealing with the issue from all sides... And we found out that it's actually YOU who advocates a singular approach...
quote:
You have yet to mention, in our conversations, a whole lot about ministring to others.
Before we can minister we have to unites Christians to the fact that abortion is wrong... How can the Body of Christ witness to when a substantial portion believes it's ok to murder an unborn child?
quote:
In fact you seem to say that to do so is "excusing" their behavior, and not being a real Christian, or at least a "hypocritical" Christian.
Let's actually quote me...
We cannot support unjust laws and later say the act of exercising that very law is against God's word and escape being a hypocrite...
It's those who believe they can support abortion law and simultaneously be against it on Sunday only who are not being constant...
Please explain how a Christian can support unjust laws and and at the same time be against it...
And yes, I stand behind what I say... And by all means refute it...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/15/2008 1:32:56 AM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline
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I am going to try one last time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
Then why does it seem that you do little else but talk about nothing but the government and the law?
SovereignIsHe
Because that is the nature of the topic in this part of the forum... And yet I have mentioned dealing with the issue from all sides... And we found out that it's actually YOU who advocates a singular approach...
I quess you somehow missed reading, or mis-understodd me mentioning about beleving that the body of Christ is just that a body with each part having a purpose, and no part having any great importance than another.
quote:
leonfigg
You have yet to mention, in our conversations, a whole lot about ministring to others.
SovereignIsHe
Before we can minister we have to unites Christians to the fact that abortion is wrong... How can the Body of Christ witness to when a substantial portion believes it's ok to murder an unborn child?
Where in the Bible do you find this?
In my reading of the Bible (Romans 12:3-5; 1 Col 12:12-19) I find the direct opposite.
quote:
leonfigg
In fact you seem to say that to do so is "excusing" their behavior, and not being a real Christian, or at least a "hypocritical" Christian.
SovereignIsHe
Let's actually quote me...
Yes, let me actually quote you
Please excuse me typing these posts out, (I haven't quite worked out the technicalities of cuting and pasting from multiple posts), but if you would like to question my quoting, feel free to check. Better yet, please explain yourself if I misunderstood.
quote:
post #73
Making excuses, and supporting the right for one to have an abortion is having multiple views and hypocritical if one mentions having a relationship with Christ.
I'm still trying to figure out how you seem to come to the conclusion that meeting and ministering to someone where they are at is excusing them or supporting the right for one to have an abortion (athe approach I feel led to, in some way)
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post 75
Well...the unborn on the victim scale rate higher than the rest involved...Ignoring the fact that people are being murder and cloaking it some view that its about attracting others to Christ doesn't make a lot of sense...We excuse the murder because bringing up the fact might upset folks who otherwise might seek God?
I think I see how you may have missed what I was trying to say. Maybe I over emphasized the idea of attracting others to Christ. However, I do not understand how you missed the second point I was trying to make of exposing others to the love of Christ.
I fail to see how took what I was saying as an effort to cloak or say that the murder of an innocent was somehow less important than sharing the love of Christ with someone. I am sorry I gave that impression, but it was the furthest thing from my mind. To me they are equal since through dealing with one part of the issue (the couple and family), you may be able to avoid having to deal with the other. Even if those involved go through with the abortion , they are still going to need the love of Christ to get them through.
I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was trying to excuse the murder of the innocent.
No we are not God and we are not Christ, my understanding of Jesus and the Bible is that each of us are called to be empty vessels through whom Jesus and God can work through for all people at all times, under and for all circumstances.
However, we are humans, and we are not perfect and sometimes we fail.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/15/2008 2:49:10 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
I am going to try one last time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
Then why does it seem that you do little else but talk about nothing but the government and the law?
SovereignIsHe
Because that is the nature of the topic in this part of the forum... And yet I have mentioned dealing with the issue from all sides... And we found out that it's actually YOU who advocates a singular approach...
I quess you somehow missed reading, or mis-understodd me mentioning about beleving that the body of Christ is just that a body with each part having a purpose, and no part having any great importance than another.
quote:
leonfigg
You have yet to mention, in our conversations, a whole lot about ministring to others.
SovereignIsHe
Before we can minister we have to unites Christians to the fact that abortion is wrong... How can the Body of Christ witness to when a substantial portion believes it's ok to murder an unborn child?
Where in the Bible do you find this?
In my reading of the Bible (Romans 12:3-5; 1 Col 12:12-19) I find the direct opposite.
quote:
leonfigg
In fact you seem to say that to do so is "excusing" their behavior, and not being a real Christian, or at least a "hypocritical" Christian.
SovereignIsHe
Let's actually quote me...
Yes, let me actually quote you
Please excuse me typing these posts out, (I haven't quite worked out the technicalities of cuting and pasting from multiple posts), but if you would like to question my quoting, feel free to check. Better yet, please explain yourself if I misunderstood.
quote:
post #73
Making excuses, and supporting the right for one to have an abortion is having multiple views and hypocritical if one mentions having a relationship with Christ.
I'm still trying to figure out how you seem to come to the conclusion that meeting and ministering to someone where they are at is excusing them or supporting the right for one to have an abortion (athe approach I feel led to, in some way)
quote:
post 75
Well...the unborn on the victim scale rate higher than the rest involved...Ignoring the fact that people are being murder and cloaking it some view that its about attracting others to Christ doesn't make a lot of sense...We excuse the murder because bringing up the fact might upset folks who otherwise might seek God?
I think I see how you may have missed what I was trying to say. Maybe I over emphasized the idea of attracting others to Christ. However, I do not understand how you missed the second point I was trying to make of exposing others to the love of Christ.
I fail to see how took what I was saying as an effort to cloak or say that the murder of an innocent was somehow less important than sharing the love of Christ with someone. I am sorry I gave that impression, but it was the furthest thing from my mind. To me they are equal since through dealing with one part of the issue (the couple and family), you may be able to avoid having to deal with the other. Even if those involved go through with the abortion , they are still going to need the love of Christ to get them through.
I fail to see how you came to the conclusion that I was trying to excuse the murder of the innocent.
No we are not God and we are not Christ, my understanding of Jesus and the Bible is that each of us are called to be empty vessels through whom Jesus and God can work through for all people at all times, under and for all circumstances.
However, we are humans, and we are not perfect and sometimes we fail.
To continue any further is pointless... Hard enough to make out what you post, but when you mix our posts it's almost impossible... Take care...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/20/2008 10:37:55 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 754
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: speaking
What do you expect to see happen now that Candidate X has won?
"Candidate X?" As in Malcolm X? That's going just a bit over the edge . . .
Let's see: what do I predict?
A bunch of righties on this forum going "Whaaah! Whaaah!" and completely making my day.
I'm so happy everyday!
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/20/2008 3:24:01 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2238
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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Just wait until the inexperienced 0ne gets in the oval office. Enjoy your gloating now because Mr. wet behind the ears has never had to do anything close to what he is going to have to do now. He's never run a business and barely showed up when he was an elected state and US senator.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/20/2008 3:59:40 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1085
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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This is why he is loading up his cabinet and advisers with old Clinton administration retreads.
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Just wait until the inexperienced 0ne gets in the oval office. Enjoy your gloating now because Mr. wet behind the ears has never had to do anything close to what he is going to have to do now. He's never run a business and barely showed up when he was an elected state and US senator.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/20/2008 4:14:11 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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Now that we voted we await the gauntlet to be picked up and see our wallets empty out even more...
quote:
In a perfect world, we'd like to see a gas tax that was the equivalent of oil at $100 per barrel. This would send a loud-and-clear signal to drivers to continue eschewing gas guzzlers for fuel sippers and mass transit. Automakers would get the message to speed up production of motor vehicles that meet or exceed the 35 miles per gallon by 2020 mandated by Congress last year. Instead of the money going to countries that have U.S. interests at heart in the same way a dealer cares about a junkie, the revenue would stay here -- and it could all be returned to the American people in the form of tax rebates. From a Washington Post editorial
Yes, it will fall on Obama to fix it so we don't fall back into our evil ways.
Don't hold your breath waiting on the rebate.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/21/2008 10:16:37 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 754
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Enjoy your gloating now because Mr. wet behind the ears has never had to do anything close to what he is going to have to do now.
True. But, of course, neither did President Wetbrain when he took office.
And I'm not gloating because Obama won. I'm gloating because peepants righties are practically tripping over their bottom lips because McCain lost.
Sabotaging the voting process didn't rescue the Republicans this time.
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/21/2008 11:12:18 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
True. But, of course, neither did President Wetbrain when he took office.
And I'm not gloating because Obama won. I'm gloating because peepants righties are practically tripping over their bottom lips because McCain lost.
I got news for you. Many of us who are CONSERVATIVES, and not Republican water carriers, expected McCain to lose. We are not crying in our beer feeling sorry for ourselves. We are rightfully concerned about our country, and looking for solutions to its problems. I'm more than sure that there are those on the "other side" who are also looking for answers to what ails the United States. BUT, to use language as you have above (and in so many of your posts) takes away from any SERIOUS discussion that might take place. If you truly care and truly want to contribute to that then please refrain from the juvenile schoolyard talk and get real.
Saying "Neener neener" doesn't get a serious listen.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/22/2008 9:57:18 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 754
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
I got news for you. Many of us who are CONSERVATIVES, and not Republican water carriers, expected McCain to lose.
But you do feel the same as those who moan about Obama, don't you?
quote:
BUT, to use language as you have above (and in so many of your posts) takes away from any SERIOUS discussion that might take place.
Any SERIOUS discussion with a rightie over Obama's win isn't possible for me. I'm just too darned amused watching them hold their breath and turn blue.
quote:
If you truly care and truly want to contribute to that then please refrain from the juvenile schoolyard talk and get real.
Care? Contribute? You get real.
You talk like we are establishing federal policy here or something. Are you seriously suggesting that we are going to solve your Obama problem here on this little sounding board? The forum is little other than a vent for frothing sentiments of various kinds.
quote:
Saying "Neener neener" doesn't get a serious listen.
I'm happy, okay? I've been getting it in the face with Bush for the last eight years; now it's your turn.
Or do you have a problem with fair play?
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/23/2008 7:25:46 AM
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Strider33
Posts: 183
Joined: 4/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
If you truly care and truly want to contribute to that then please refrain from the juvenile schoolyard talk and get real.
Saying "Neener neener" doesn't get a serious listen.
Please don't feed the troll.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/23/2008 7:31:58 PM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10366
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
quote:
ORIGINAL: stamper_ben
If you truly care and truly want to contribute to that then please refrain from the juvenile schoolyard talk and get real.
Saying "Neener neener" doesn't get a serious listen.
Please don't feed the troll.
I tried to be serious with them and failed. I've now shut the pantry door.
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: We've Voted - Now What? - 11/24/2008 2:21:31 AM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
I got news for you. Many of us who are CONSERVATIVES, and not Republican water carriers, expected McCain to lose. We are not crying in our beer feeling sorry for ourselves. We are rightfully concerned about our country, and looking for solutions to its problems.
Thanks stamper_ben! This is so true.
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/24/2008 9:16:10 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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I didn't read the thread so this is just what I have done and am doing.
We have had our team of professionals working since before the election trying to come up with the best ways to reduce our tax liability and increase our ability to grow and expand under an Obama administration and with a declining economy.
We have decided to cut off all contributions to the college to give out free two year education to the graduates because we believe "they" voted for Obama and they can now see what it's like to "borrow" money for an education then work to pay the loans off instead of having people "give them" an education. We believe we may have even contributed to their entitlement minset by giving them that wonderful gift.
We have decided to redirect our contributions to things such as Habitat for Humanity and other non-christian charities/research groups and pool that money with our regular contrabutions into FoF, FoFA, ADF, Crown, Samaritan Purse and EPM.
We have decided to keep our tithes and offerings to our church and the ministries of the SBC/SBA the same.
< Message edited by P31W -- 11/24/2008 9:22:10 AM >
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/24/2008 9:19:38 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Thanks stamper_ben! This is so true.
I second that!
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RE: We Vote Now What - 11/25/2008 7:12:41 PM
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tacitus
Posts: 402
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
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I'm late to this thread, but I predict:
1) The sky won't fall nor will America become a socialist paradise (as if it ever would)
2) Right-wing conservatives will not leave the country after all (where would they go? All the other democratic nations are more left-wing than America anyway!)
3) There will be a lot of pain as we suffer through a long and deep global recession, but the system will not collapse and recovery will begin some time in 2011.
4) Some of the economic policies Obama institutes will help alleviate the problems, others won't.
5) Many of the consitutionally dubious actions Bush made in the name of the War on Terror will be rolled back, but not all of them, to the consternation of those on the left.
6) The path to universal healthcare will be started down, and there will be no going back. Hardline conservatives will hate it, but everyone else will prefer it to the current, soon to be unaffordable system (it already costs Americans twice as much as anyone else). Republicans will have to grow to accept the new reality (as have all the other conservative parties in the industrialized world) or they will remain out of power for a very long time.
7) Some important moves will be made towards energy independence, but special interests -- including big oil, coal, environmentals, etc -- will make the road extremely bumpy and hard. A lot more will still need to be done by the next president. The majority of our energy needs will still be imported from OPEC countries in 5 years time.
8) Troops will be in Iraq longer than Obama plans, and the country will remain unstable as rival factions continue to jockey for power. Iran will continue to cheer along from the sidelines (thank you President Bush).
9) Iran will elect a new, less extremist president next year. The rhetoric will lessen but Iran will gain a nuclear capability eventually (not in the next 5 years, but eventually). No American president will be able to stop them short of dragging us into another war, and the American people will not allow that to happen. However, the Iranians will not use their new weapons systems to attack Israel or anyone else. The propaganda victory and projection of strength in the region will be enough.
10) Afghanistan will get more focus and deals will be struck with some of the less extreme (everything's relative) Taliban leaders to help stabilize some of the ungovernable parts of the country. The odds of a full peace in the country are slim, however.
11) In November 2012 Barack Obama will be deemed to have had a successful, if bumpy presidency and handily defeats Mitt Romney (who edged out Mike Huckabee in the primaries, with Palin a distant third) with increase majorities in Florida and Ohio. The House will remain in Democratic hands with a slightly reduced majority, and for the first time since 2004, the Republicans will make gains in the Senate, but not enough to win the majority -- probably 46 senators.
12) Joe Biden will announce that he will not run for president in 2016, immediately making Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton the odds-on favorite to be the next Democratic nominee. Pressure to find a non-white-male opponent for her on the Republican side will push Bobby Jindal to the top of the list.
13) Gay marriage will be voted back in in California in 2010. Those in traditional marriages will somehow survive unscathed. Don't ask, don't tell will be abolished by 2010. There will be no major protests over the move. (it's already not much of an issue to 75% of Americans today.)
14) Other social issues -- abstinence-only education will be consigned to the trashcan of history never to reappear. Abortion laws and policies will remain pretty much as they are, except for the overruling of related Bush executive orders (like overseas funding), and abortion rates will start to decline again by 2010. Government funding for embryonic stem cell research will start again, of course, but it will not be as pervasive as some fear it will. Other stem cell sources will continue to show promise too, so they will continue to receive a good share of the funding.
15) Obama will replace two or three retiring justices on the liberal wing with two or three (surprise surprise) similar judges. Overall, the ideological balance of the Supreme Court will remain about the same in 8 years as it is today. Perhaps Scalia will retire by then, but it seems unlikely at this point.
16) The rest of the federal judiciary will be restored to about a 50-50 split (as it was under Clinton) from the 75-25 in favor of conservative judges today. There will be no left-wing domination of the federal judiciary -- the turn over rate just wont allow for it anyway.
I could go on, but you're probably already fed up of reading this post at this point!
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