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Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:16:30 AM
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JenP
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I am by NO MEANS DEBATING that abortion is wrong or not. I am pro-life. However, my question is and again I'm not disagreeing but TRULY looking for the answer!: Whydo Christians make abortion their number one deciding factor for who they are voting for. Does anything else ata ll matter int he election? If so, what as Chrsitians should we be focusing on besides just abortion as the number one issue.
It seems like if any candidate opposed abortion but had tons of other ideas that were terrible and against our faith, as long as he opposed abortion we should pick him (I'm not saying this is true - it's an example) I hope you can see where I am getting at with my question. Should abortion and pro-life be all we focus on? It seems that is why people are picking McCain (I haven't decided yet - I know crazy but truly I haven't)
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:18:11 AM
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tafkam
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For me it is very simple, if a candidate does not value life, especially the life of our most innocent and helpless citizens, then how can I trust him on any other issue?
It IS a defining issue for this voter.....
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:19:11 AM
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JenP
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Thank you for response. That's exactly the type of answer or response I was looking for. I just want to understand better why it's so important as the number one issue above all else.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:21:53 AM
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yustme
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
For me it is very simple, if a candidate does not value life, especially the life of our most innocent and helpless citizens, then how can I trust him on any other issue?
It IS a defining issue for this voter.....
AMEN,AMEN,AMEN,ETC,ETC,ETC!!!
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:26:53 AM
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iluvatar
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If you believe that unborn babies are alive, then we essentially have a holocaust right here every year, with, IIRC, the equivalent of one 9/11 tragedy every other day. So it's a pretty big deal.
What I don't agree with is that this particular election will make much difference in the ultimate fight towards ending it.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:30:03 AM
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laura...
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The abortion issue has always been my first consideration when voting. This year the other issues came real close to tipping the balance for me. The economy, housing crisis and healthcare were huge factors I had to consider. Fortunately, I was able to sit down with someone who had spent a significant time studying the candidates economic plans and was able to show me why McCain's plan was better. The campaign sound bites just weren't adequate for real understanding. Given that information I was able to vote for McCain confidently knowing that my stance on abortion wasn't going to harpoon the economy.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:30:26 AM
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Zhi
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I guess I would say WWJCB? What would Jesus care about?
I don't think Jesus would particularly care about how big of a tax cut I'm going to get or even whether or not I have free healthcare, compared to whether or not I'm helping keep the murder of innocent unborn children legal and unrestricted. I'm sure He cares about the environment and so forth, but again, little children are very precious in His sight, so I think that it's the most important issue, from a Christian standpoint.
So, yes, other things matter, but when you're going "is a bigger tax cut for me worth supporting the relaxation of restrictions on the murder of unborn babies?" even asking the question seems kind of absurd.
_____________________________
The optimist says the glass is half full. The pessimist says the glass is half empty. The engineer says the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:35:17 AM
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LabGuy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
If you believe that unborn babies are alive, then we essentially have a holocaust right here every year, with, IIRC, the equivalent of one 9/11 tragedy every other day. So it's a pretty big deal.
What I don't agree with is that this particular election will make much difference in the ultimate fight towards ending it.
-Dan.
It stands to make a huge difference the other way, unfortunately. Obama's pledge to sign the Freedom of Choice Act will enshrine Roe v. Wade in Federal Law, erase decades of progress against abortion, and make it virtually impossible to limit or stop. So even if McCain were to mean no progress, that is infinitely preferable to total defeat.
-Robb
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:42:11 AM
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JenP
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I am thankful for all your replies. They are very helpful.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 10:44:40 AM
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laura...
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quote:
So, yes, other things matter, but when you're going "is a bigger tax cut for me worth supporting the relaxation of restrictions on the murder of unborn babies?" even asking the question seems kind of absurd.
That wasn't the question I was struggling with. The question for me was, "Would the next president's impact on Roe vs. Wade outweigh the impact of a failing economy and healthcare system on those who are in desparate need?" I have a nephew who is literally dying from juvenile diabetes because he can't get adequate medical care. He's been fighting to get health care for over 4 years. I have 2 family members who have lost their homes due to predatory lending practices. I have another family member who needs knee replacements but can't afford to take time off work so he works 40 hours a week in constant pain. My husband just quit a job because the company was going under. Fortunately he has another job but it is at a significantly lower pay.
Whose life is more precious? That is an impossible question to answer. Yes, we must fight for the unborn. But, scripture also tells us to fight and provide for the needy, the orphan and the widow.
Happily, I was able to see that McCain's plans are good for the economy and economically better than Obama's. Now, don't ask me to explain his plan...I'm not that good at economics.
_____________________________
This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 12:09:54 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
If you believe that unborn babies are alive, then we essentially have a holocaust right here every year, with, IIRC, the equivalent of one 9/11 tragedy every other day. So it's a pretty big deal.
I think Dan captured the urgency that pro-life voters feel. Once I came to the conclusion the unborn were fully human, it became impossible to consider it a secondary issue. Unlike the economy, which will recover and naturally goes through cycles, once gone the millions of unborn who have been lost will never come back. And everyday more are lost; so it can almost never be a secondary issue short of the survival of the nation itself.
It's much like slavery was to 19th century abolitionists; once one had come to the conlusion that blacks were as fully human as whites and due all the rights of any men, the fact that millions were enslaved by necessity became the overriding political issue. Some men, whom we now laud as heroic, like William Wilberforce, devoted their lives and reputations to stopping it; how much more so should we be concerned about the unborn?
I think the final issue for me in this though comes down to the courts. I see in Roe a fundamental departure from solid Constitutional basis for jurisprudence. Even supporters of the outcome in the legal establishment agree that Roe is a poorly argued precedent. And it has laid the groundwork for much additional judicial abuse of the Constitution, fundamentally altering our rights in realtion to family, marriage, property, and self-protection. And so we see that Roe isn't just about abortion (though that is enough) but about almost every issue we face as Americans.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 12:14:53 PM
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rcjames
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If a person has no respect for innocent life, or even infanticide as does Obama then that is a major issue with me.
The "Creepology" of abortion is to make it legal (as in Row v Wade), then pay for it with my tax monies as Obama wants to do (making me a participant in the abortion), and them abortion by decree as they have in China when a person is pregnant with a second child.
Thanks
RC
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Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 12:22:21 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
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It determines everyone's "world view."
It affects all other issues from that world view.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 12:51:12 PM
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Dona Nobis Pacem
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
For me it is very simple, if a candidate does not value life, especially the life of our most innocent and helpless citizens, then how can I trust him on any other issue?
It IS a defining issue for this voter.....
Couldn't have said it better.
"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do." --
Senator Barack Obama, speaking to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, July 17, 2007
Respect Life,
DNP
_____________________________
Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:10:01 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dona Nobis Pacem
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
For me it is very simple, if a candidate does not value life, especially the life of our most innocent and helpless citizens, then how can I trust him on any other issue?
It IS a defining issue for this voter.....
Couldn't have said it better.
"The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act. That's the first thing that I'd do." --
Senator Barack Obama, speaking to the Planned Parenthood Action Fund, July 17, 2007
Respect Life,
DNP
He also told Planned Parenthood he would bring them to DC to help develop policy.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:19:41 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 222
Joined: 10/3/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JenP
I am by NO MEANS DEBATING that abortion is wrong or not. I am pro-life. However, my question is and again I'm not disagreeing but TRULY looking for the answer!: Whydo Christians make abortion their number one deciding factor for who they are voting for. Does anything else ata ll matter int he election? If so, what as Chrsitians should we be focusing on besides just abortion as the number one issue.
It seems like if any candidate opposed abortion but had tons of other ideas that were terrible and against our faith, as long as he opposed abortion we should pick him (I'm not saying this is true - it's an example) I hope you can see where I am getting at with my question. Should abortion and pro-life be all we focus on? It seems that is why people are picking McCain (I haven't decided yet - I know crazy but truly I haven't)
The thing about having abortion as your number one concern is that it's such an emotional topic that it has the ability to cloud everything else. I find one post very interesting...
quote:
For me it is very simple, if a candidate does not value life, especially the life of our most innocent and helpless citizens, then how can I trust him on any other issue?
A candidates stance on abortion is only a small area in which he/she can value life. What about the lives of homeless people? Why aren't they valued? What about the people who work their butts off, but still can't afford to buy groceries? Why aren't their lives valued? What about ex convicts who've paid their debt to society but can't get a job? Why aren't their lives valued?
The whole fabric of our nation is made up of such a complex fabric of issues that it's really impossible to separate one from another. The best you can do is see which one God has laid on your heart to prioritize. For some, it's abortion. For others, it's job creation. Neither has more intrinsic value than the other. Okay, so you saved the life of the unborn child, but how is he going to manage to feed himself to sustain his life when he grows up?
Both are needed to move our society closer to what God envisioned. Just like with spiritual gifts, He gives us the one He wants us to have. As we're all members of the same body, we function best when working together and not fighting one another. Given that, God is a God of balance. Tipping too far either way is not healthy. With such a loaded issue as abortion, it's very easy to tip right off the scales into a place you're not supposed to be and won't be effective.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:22:33 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
A candidates stance on abortion is only a small area in which he/she can value life. What about the lives of homeless people? Why aren't they valued? What about the people who work their butts off, but still can't afford to buy groceries? Why aren't their lives valued? What about ex convicts who've paid their debt to society but can't get a job? Why aren't their lives valued?
The whole fabric of our nation is made up of such a complex fabric of issues that it's really impossible to separate one from another. The best you can do is see which one God has laid on your heart to prioritize. For some, it's abortion. For others, it's job creation. Neither has more intrinsic value than the other. Okay, so you saved the life of the unborn child, but how is he going to manage to feed himself to sustain his life when he grows up?
Both are needed to move our society closer to what God envisioned. Just like with spiritual gifts, He gives us the one He wants us to have. As we're all members of the same body, we function best when working together and not fighting one another. Given that, God is a God of balance. Tipping too far either way is not healthy. With such a loaded issue as abortion, it's very easy to tip right off the scales into a place you're not supposed to be and won't be effective.
IMHO this is from man's reasoning.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:24:06 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 222
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quote:
ORIGINAL: laura...
quote:
So, yes, other things matter, but when you're going "is a bigger tax cut for me worth supporting the relaxation of restrictions on the murder of unborn babies?" even asking the question seems kind of absurd.
That wasn't the question I was struggling with. The question for me was, "Would the next president's impact on Roe vs. Wade outweigh the impact of a failing economy and healthcare system on those who are in desparate need?" I have a nephew who is literally dying from juvenile diabetes because he can't get adequate medical care. He's been fighting to get health care for over 4 years. I have 2 family members who have lost their homes due to predatory lending practices. I have another family member who needs knee replacements but can't afford to take time off work so he works 40 hours a week in constant pain. My husband just quit a job because the company was going under. Fortunately he has another job but it is at a significantly lower pay.
Whose life is more precious? That is an impossible question to answer. Yes, we must fight for the unborn. But, scripture also tells us to fight and provide for the needy, the orphan and the widow.
Happily, I was able to see that McCain's plans are good for the economy and economically better than Obama's. Now, don't ask me to explain his plan...I'm not that good at economics.
With all this personal experience with the red tape of our health care system, I find it really interesting that you would vote for McCain who is going to make it even more difficult for your nephew to get coverage instead of Obama whose plan mandates that no one can be turned away. His plan also contains a measure that would give your family member the paid time off he needs to get the knee replacements.
Interesting indeed.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:26:28 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 222
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
A candidates stance on abortion is only a small area in which he/she can value life. What about the lives of homeless people? Why aren't they valued? What about the people who work their butts off, but still can't afford to buy groceries? Why aren't their lives valued? What about ex convicts who've paid their debt to society but can't get a job? Why aren't their lives valued?
The whole fabric of our nation is made up of such a complex fabric of issues that it's really impossible to separate one from another. The best you can do is see which one God has laid on your heart to prioritize. For some, it's abortion. For others, it's job creation. Neither has more intrinsic value than the other. Okay, so you saved the life of the unborn child, but how is he going to manage to feed himself to sustain his life when he grows up?
Both are needed to move our society closer to what God envisioned. Just like with spiritual gifts, He gives us the one He wants us to have. As we're all members of the same body, we function best when working together and not fighting one another. Given that, God is a God of balance. Tipping too far either way is not healthy. With such a loaded issue as abortion, it's very easy to tip right off the scales into a place you're not supposed to be and won't be effective.
IMHO this is from man's reasoning.
Exactly. It's your OPINION.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:29:02 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
With all this personal experience with the red tape of our health care system, I find it really interesting that you would vote for McCain who is going to make it even more difficult for your nephew to get coverage instead of Obama whose plan mandates that no one can be turned away. His plan also contains a measure that would give your family member the paid time off he needs to get the knee replacements.
Well, considering in the various socialized health care systems around the world waiting for care is fairly routine, and care is often sub-par, I don't think there is any guarantee that Obama's plans will be significantly different.
That being said, we should know one way or another about this time next year.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:48:59 PM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2031
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
For me it is very simple, if a candidate does not value life, especially the life of our most innocent and helpless citizens, then how can I trust him on any other issue?
I think the "devaluing life" charge can really only be leveled at a handful of people. I think that, for the most part, abortion-rights supporters see the fetus as something less than a full person worthy of full-scale human rights. I'm not advocating that position, but IMO to say that these people just "devalue life" does more to hamper dialog and damage our credibility than it does to further our agenda and convince people of our position.
And as writerchick said, "valuing life" can manifest itself in many forms. It can come in the form of pushing for stronger diplomatic efforts instead of rushing into war. It can come in the form of using our resources and political capital to push for humanitarian causes instead of business interests. I wouldn't say that the far right is hypocritical on this issue, but it does have a serious case of tunnel vision. For example, about a million people (mostly children) die of malaria each year; about 2 million die of AIDS; about 2.2 million die of other water & sanitation-related illnesses. If you were to ask a "pro-lifer" if this is bad, of course they'd say that it is, but the manner in which the political energy is distributed doesn't really say "pro-life" to a lot of people; it just says "anti-abortion."
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:56:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
Given that, God is a God of balance. Tipping too far either way is not healthy. With such a loaded issue as abortion, it's very easy to tip right off the scales into a place you're not supposed to be and won't be effective.
God is the God of balance? Sounds more like Buddha than God, who is the Way and the Truth and the Life. Being He is the ONLY God there really is no balance...
Abortion is a excellent barometer of one's character and an indicator of one's sense of justice. or lack thereof
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 1:57:49 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
His plan also contains a measure that would give your family member the paid time off he needs to get the knee replacements.
Paid by whom?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 2:03:17 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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I set before you life and death, CHOOSE LIFE.
Oops sorry, quoting God is just an opinion.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Why is abortion number 1? - 11/4/2008 2:05:55 PM
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jesuschick247
Posts: 2870
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
For me it is very simple, if a candidate does not value life, especially the life of our most innocent and helpless citizens, then how can I trust him on any other issue?
It IS a defining issue for this voter.....
I have to agree with you on this one, couldn't have put it any better myself!
_____________________________
"The memories erased...Baby, that's the BEAUTY of GRACE!"
"Always be a first-rate version of yourself, rather than a second-rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland
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