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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 2:35:09 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Could you show me from The New testament that Jesus stood up and stop the Romans when they humiliated, killed innocent Jews? Could you show me from New Testament that Paul stood up against Romans aggression for social justice ? You wouldn’t find that in Jesus teaching, instate what you will find is that early church member suffered injustice so they may spread the gospel to unbeliever.
Paul stopped a beating of himself by pointing out he had Roman citizenship...
The fact God ordained the civil government for the sake of order lends support to the idea that the government is obligated to act in a just manner. Jesus didn't have to point that out for it be valid... It's in His word...
One doesn't have to show an act of Jesus as proof of something..... The entire bible is "the teachings of Jesus..." Trying to narrow the focus of God's council to the short time Jesus was on earth is disingenuous... Not to mention... Jesus had a purpose, the cross.... He made a point that He was not going to be the Savior the Jews were looking for, the one who would bring the out of their temporal enslavement, but the one actually Abraham rejoiced of...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 2:39:20 PM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Jesus and Paul had not voice in the government.
People living in America do.
We cannot pretend we don't and call that love.
So you making up your own theology ?
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 2:43:24 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7627
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
So you making up your own theology ?
That isn't theology, it's fact.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 3:00:02 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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Proverbs 24:11-12
11 Rescue those who are unjustly sentenced to death; don't stand back and let them die. 12 Don't try to avoid responsibility by saying you didn't know about it. For God knows all hearts, and he sees you. He keeps watch over your soul, and he knows you knew! And he will judge all people according to what they have done.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 4:06:51 PM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
So you making up your own theology ?
That isn't theology, it's fact.
Fact means , even though Jesus all knowing knew that Romans were unjustly oppressing the children of God, yet he kept his mouth shut, and then when disciple came and wanted him ( Jesus) to establish the Kingdom to rescue Jews from Romans , Jesus told them “ my kingdom is in heaven and not on earth”!
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 4:08:30 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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So what scripture tell you that it's ok for you to vote for a leader who is pro murder of the innocent?
quote:
Fact means , even though Jesus all knowing knew that Romans were unjustly oppressing the children of God, yet he kept his mouth shut, and then when disciple came and wanted him ( Jesus) to establish the Kingdom to rescue Jews from Romans , Jesus told them “ my kingdom is in heaven and not on earth”!
You are off the wall here. No one here is trying to set up a Godly kingdom.
We are simply trying to save the lives of innocent babies by overturning RvW.
Why are you spending time telling us that we are wrong. You should be out witnessing if you follow your own instruction.
< Message edited by P31W -- 11/11/2008 4:14:30 PM >
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 4:23:08 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6355
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Just when I thought I have heard it all.....
We have self-professing born-again believers not seeing a problem with the murder of babies. I wonder if said people are parents and or have ever even seen an actual abortion performed.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 4:49:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Just when I thought I have heard it all.....
We have self-professing born-again believers not seeing a problem with the murder of babies. I wonder if said people are parents and or have ever even seen an actual abortion performed.
And using the the "teachings" of Jesus to support it...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 4:53:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
So you making up your own theology ?
That isn't theology, it's fact.
Fact means , even though Jesus all knowing knew that Romans were unjustly oppressing the children of God, yet he kept his mouth shut, and then when disciple came and wanted him ( Jesus) to establish the Kingdom to rescue Jews from Romans , Jesus told them “ my kingdom is in heaven and not on earth”!
The following debunks your view....
Proverbs 16:12 It is an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 4:55:19 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6355
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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Is the Obama Kool-Aid that strong?
Strong delusion?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 4:58:31 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Is the Obama Kool-Aid that strong?
Strong delusion?
It's Jamestown Jim Jamboree flavor...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 11:43:36 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Could you show me from The New testament that Jesus stood up and stop the Romans when they humiliated, killed innocent Jews? Could you show me from New Testament that Paul stood up against Romans aggression for social justice ? You wouldn’t find that in Jesus teaching, instate what you will find is that early church member suffered injustice so they may spread the gospel to unbeliever.
Paul stopped a beating of himself by pointing out he had Roman citizenship...
The fact God ordained the civil government for the sake of order lends support to the idea that the government is obligated to act in a just manner. Jesus didn't have to point that out for it be valid... It's in His word...
One doesn't have to show an act of Jesus as proof of something..... The entire bible is "the teachings of Jesus..." Trying to narrow the focus of God's council to the short time Jesus was on earth is disingenuous... Not to mention... Jesus had a purpose, the cross.... He made a point that He was not going to be the Savior the Jews were looking for, the one who would bring the out of their temporal enslavement, but the one actually Abraham rejoiced of...
Only because he was really was a Roman citizen and being so rightly deserved to be treated like a roman citizen.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 11:47:24 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
So you making up your own theology ?
That isn't theology, it's fact.
Yes, Americans do have a voice in their government, but that doesn't give Christians the right to force God's will on the general population, because they "think" that's the right thing to do. That actually makes them no better than Hilter, Stalin, Napoleon, Kim Jong, Pot Pol or Idi Amin.
< Message edited by campbe33 -- 11/11/2008 11:59:35 PM >
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/11/2008 11:52:59 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
How sad that you think that salvation depends on what kind of abortion laws we have in the country. It is the Holy Spirit who changes people’s heart. Unfortunately this is the reality. Past two decades evangelical Christians invested too much time , money, faith on this pro-life movement that they forgot how simple it is to win hearts for Christ. You spread the word and let Holy Sprit do His work in peoples heart.
Sadder still that anyone think they can show the love of Christ and be indifferent to the deaths of millions of innocent children. One can't say they love Christ and not care about the least of these; and if you want to see how effective a gospel is apart from such concern, you need look no farther than Western Europe where abortions are easily available and churches are mostly empty.
If the early church leader had in mind that they need to change the society, change the government in line with Biblical standard before they can spread the gospel then I would never heard the gospel, Christianity would have died down along with the disciple.
Christians in America are so privileged that they think in order to spread the word of God they need ““Christian nation” , “ Christian government”, . instate of putting faith in Christ and trusting His sprit to do the work they depend on their own ability to change people’s heart.
Power of God to change people’s heart doesn’t depend on situation but God Himself, we don’t need to look no further but China, India and other South Asian countries. Christianity is the fastest growing religion in those countries and in United State – the Islam is fastest growing religion. In those countries they don’t care what kind of law government has, they care what they themselves doing for the kingdom of God.
In America Christians spend too much time on “ if kids has permission to pray in school or not” instate of teaching kids at home how to pray, in USA Christians worry how many unsaved women having sex in school instate of trying to win those women for Christ, in USA Christians worry for the unborn babies, instate of wining the heart of a mother for Christ which ultimately world stop killing the unborn babies.
In the thread “The survivor's guide to exile” many wrote church might be purified after this election. Aha! Losing an election is persecution ? I guess we American Christian haven’t been persecuted for Christ that is why we don’t know what is “ religious persecution” , If the head would chop off for reading the Bible to others or putting in jail for gathering in some one’s home to worship Christ, only then we would see revival in our church.
I am with you 100% Born_Again, unfortunately here there's a small group of so called Christians who think making this country a Theocracy instead of "Democracy" is the Christian way.
< Message edited by campbe33 -- 11/12/2008 4:31:03 AM >
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:17:03 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
So you making up your own theology ?
That isn't theology, it's fact.
Fact means , even though Jesus all knowing knew that Romans were unjustly oppressing the children of God, yet he kept his mouth shut, and then when disciple came and wanted him ( Jesus) to establish the Kingdom to rescue Jews from Romans , Jesus told them “ my kingdom is in heaven and not on earth”!
The following debunks your view....
Proverbs 16:12 It is an abomination to kings to commit wickedness: for the throne is established by righteousness.
I could quote hundreds of verses against the wickedness of men. So, basically your saying Jesus was wrong for not stopping what he knew the Romans were doing to Jews. Since Jesus had to know about all the persecutions the Jews were suffering and did nothing he was sinning. Jesus could have overthrown the Romans with a snap of his fingers, however he did not. Why, because the Romans being in power was nit his main concern. He was more concerned about the condition of mens souls. He knew overthrowing the Romans and ordering men to obey him was not the way God wanted us to come to him. God wanted us to come to him of our free wills. Anything less would have meant nothing to God.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:46:41 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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C-33, plese what a bunch of hogwash. Do you know that early Christians rescued babies thrown in the garbage by the Romans? please it is a fearful thing to twist scripture to win, an un-winable argument.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 1:08:57 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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What concerns me is that Christians want to turn this government in a Theocracy. Why is this a bad idea Christians ask? Look at China, whats left of the USSR, look at the Mddle East, the Vactican, Knig Henry, Queen Elizbeth or King James. All of these countries were or are part of Theocracies. When the Pope speaks these days he expects the governments to listen and do what he says. This is craziness. This is what kind of government Christians would have today. This is what Flabbergast me, these people who are so concern with those unborn babies, aren't worried about those babies already born who are alive and breathing. Most of those babies that would have terminated are black babies. Christians are not out looking for homes to place these babies. They are usually more concerned with white babies. Why aren't these so called Christians worried about those babies already alive and breathing. They are more worried about babies that haven't been born yet. There are thousands of babies and children starving each day, Where are these concerned Christians then. Where are these Christians when it comes to home placement of these children. Most of these teens people won't take in to their homes.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 1:17:28 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
What concerns me is that Christians want to turn this government in a Theocracy. Why is this a bad idea Christians ask? Look at China, whats left of the USSR, look at the Mddle East, the Vactican, Knig Henry, Queen Elizbeth or King James. All of these countries were or are part of Theocracies. When the Pope speaks these days he expects the governments to listen and do what he says. This is craziness. This is what kind of government Christians would have today. This is what Flabbergast me, these people who are so concern with those unborn babies, aren't worried about those babies already born who are alive and breathing. Most of those babies that would have terminated are black babies. Christians are not out looking for homes to place these babies. They are usually more concerned with white babies. Why aren't these so called Christians worried about those babies already alive and breathing. They are more worried about babies that haven't been born yet. There are thousands of babies and children starving each day, Where are these concerned Christians then. Where are these Christians when it comes to home placement of these children. Most of these teens people won't take in to their homes.
[/quote]
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 1:26:28 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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What Christians are basically saying is "Faith in God" is not good enough.
Yet, they spent 60 million on California's Proposition 8. How people do you think they could have fed for that????????????????????? Do you really think God is going to pat you on the back for that. I think your are seriously disillusioned. I mean thousand of chidren just died yesterday. I can't wait for ski season. RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 1:33:54 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
C-33, plese what a bunch of hogwash. Do you know that early Christians rescued babies thrown in the garbage by the Romans? please it is a fearful thing to twist scripture to win, an un-winable argument.
So, how many children that would've been placed in foster homes Are , have you taken in? Have any of them been african-american babies???? Have you taken in african american babies or teens. These are the hardest kids toi place or are you paryt of the cover-up??????????
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 1:57:26 AM
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ekserekseez
Posts: 693
Joined: 7/3/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Do you know that early Christians rescued babies thrown in the garbage by the Romans? please it is a fearful thing to twist scripture to win, an un-winable argument.
I never heard about this, but I admit I usually slept through mass and chapel. Where can I find this in the bible?
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 3:04:23 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Could you show me from The New testament that Jesus stood up and stop the Romans when they humiliated, killed innocent Jews? Could you show me from New Testament that Paul stood up against Romans aggression for social justice ? You wouldn’t find that in Jesus teaching, instate what you will find is that early church member suffered injustice so they may spread the gospel to unbeliever.
Paul stopped a beating of himself by pointing out he had Roman citizenship...
The fact God ordained the civil government for the sake of order lends support to the idea that the government is obligated to act in a just manner. Jesus didn't have to point that out for it be valid... It's in His word...
One doesn't have to show an act of Jesus as proof of something..... The entire bible is "the teachings of Jesus..." Trying to narrow the focus of God's council to the short time Jesus was on earth is disingenuous... Not to mention... Jesus had a purpose, the cross.... He made a point that He was not going to be the Savior the Jews were looking for, the one who would bring the out of their temporal enslavement, but the one actually Abraham rejoiced of...
Only because he was really was a Roman citizen and being so rightly deserved to be treated like a roman citizen.
Because it was unjust....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 3:13:27 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
I could quote hundreds of verses against the wickedness of men.
Since verses can be whatever you wish I can't assume you are speaking of the bible...
Proverbs 16:12 speaks of kings(those in authority) doing wicked things and it being an abomination... That says the government is to be just... That is a teaching of God's word...
quote:
So, basically your saying Jesus was wrong for not stopping what he knew the Romans were doing to Jews.
Nope...I never said anything of the sort...
quote:
Since Jesus had to know about all the persecutions the Jews were suffering and did nothing he was sinning.
Absurd...
quote:
Jesus could have overthrown the Romans with a snap of his fingers, however he did not.
Nope... Wasn't the plan....
quote:
Why, because the Romans being in power was nit his main concern.
They were in power because God ordained it...
quote:
He was more concerned about the condition of mens souls.
Actually His concern was doing the will of the Father....
quote:
He knew overthrowing the Romans and ordering men to obey him was not the way God wanted us to come to him.
Mankind is commanded to obey God... So He did order people to obey... He wasn't asking them...
quote:
God wanted us to come to him of our free wills.
Free will avails man nothing....
quote:
Anything less would have meant nothing to God.
When did God tell you this?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 3:15:36 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
So you making up your own theology ?
That isn't theology, it's fact.
Yes, Americans do have a voice in their government, but that doesn't give Christians the right to force God's will on the general population, because they "think" that's the right thing to do. That actually makes them no better than Hilter, Stalin, Napoleon, Kim Jong, Pot Pol or Idi Amin.
Ridiculous... Christian supporting lawful changes to the law of the land through the process isn't acting like Hitler...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 3:24:12 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
What concerns me is that Christians want to turn this government in a Theocracy. Why is this a bad idea Christians ask? Look at China, whats left of the USSR, look at the Mddle East, the Vactican, Knig Henry, Queen Elizbeth or King James. All of these countries were or are part of Theocracies.
OK....lol
quote:
When the Pope speaks these days he expects the governments to listen and do what he says. This is craziness.
You must believe you are living 300 years ago....
quote:
This is what kind of government Christians would have today. This is what Flabbergast me, these people who are so concern with those unborn babies, aren't worried about those babies already born who are alive and breathing.
False claim...
quote:
Most of those babies that would have terminated are black babies. Christians are not out looking for homes to place these babies.
I suggest you take this up with the black community... For that matter Mr. Obama...
quote:
They are usually more concerned with white babies.
Again, false claim...
quote:
Why aren't these so called Christians worried about those babies already alive and breathing.
Again, false claim...
quote:
They are more worried about babies that haven't been born yet.
Again, false claim...
quote:
There are thousands of babies and children starving each day, Where are these concerned Christians then. Where are these Christians when it comes to home placement of these children.
I hope when you are not posting you are feeding them and looking for homes...
quote:
Most of these teens people won't take in to their homes.
Huh?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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