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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 3:29:11 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
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From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
C-33, plese what a bunch of hogwash. Do you know that early Christians rescued babies thrown in the garbage by the Romans? please it is a fearful thing to twist scripture to win, an un-winable argument.
So, how many children that would've been placed in foster homes Are , have you taken in? Have any of them been african-american babies???? Have you taken in african american babies or teens. These are the hardest kids toi place or are you paryt of the cover-up??????????
Cover-up? Oh boy...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 4:28:00 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Could you show me from The New testament that Jesus stood up and stop the Romans when they humiliated, killed innocent Jews? Could you show me from New Testament that Paul stood up against Romans aggression for social justice ? You wouldn’t find that in Jesus teaching, instate what you will find is that early church member suffered injustice so they may spread the gospel to unbeliever.
Paul stopped a beating of himself by pointing out he had Roman citizenship...
The fact God ordained the civil government for the sake of order lends support to the idea that the government is obligated to act in a just manner. Jesus didn't have to point that out for it be valid... It's in His word...
One doesn't have to show an act of Jesus as proof of something..... The entire bible is "the teachings of Jesus..." Trying to narrow the focus of God's council to the short time Jesus was on earth is disingenuous... Not to mention... Jesus had a purpose, the cross.... He made a point that He was not going to be the Savior the Jews were looking for, the one who would bring the out of their temporal enslavement, but the one actually Abraham rejoiced of...
Only because he was really was a Roman citizen and being so rightly deserved to be treated like a roman citizen.
Because it was unjust....
Because it was unjust how they were treating a Roman citizen. Roman Citizens had certain rights and expectations of how they should be treated back then when charged with a crime. It had nothing to with objecting to the Politics of the time.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 5:26:15 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
I could quote hundreds of verses against the wickedness of men.
Since verses can be whatever you wish I can't assume you are speaking of the bible...
That is typical and presumptuous of you, since you are you are so well versed in the God's word "the Bible" and you are so well informed.
quote:
Proverbs 16:12 speaks of kings(those in authority) doing wicked things and it being an abomination... That says the government is to be just... That is a teaching of God's word...
There were many Kings who were evil and did wicked things in the Old Testament and there are many teachings in God's word. God never forced his will on these people, God was only trying to make those descendants of Abraham fulfill the Covenant God made with Abraham. I could take hundreds of verses from the bible and apply them to make my point too. A verse from here and there doesn't make your point.
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So, basically your saying Jesus was wrong for not stopping what he knew the Romans were doing to Jews.
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Nope...I never said anything of the sort...
Your implying it though, if you think this country should be under a Theocracy.
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Since Jesus had to know about all the persecutions the Jews were suffering and did nothing he was sinning.
Absurd...
No only your narrow minded viewpoints are absurd.
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Jesus could have overthrown the Romans with a snap of his fingers, however he did not.
Nope... Wasn't the plan....
Exactly, so what aren't you seeing?????????????
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Why, because the Romans being in power wasn't his main concern.
They were in power because God ordained it...
That's right and that is exactly why Obama is in power now.
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He was more concerned about the condition of mens souls.
Actually His concern was doing the will of the Father....
Which was to save and lead as many people to God as possible.
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He knew overthrowing the Romans and ordering men to obey him was not the way God wanted us to come to him.
Mankind is commanded to obey God... So He did order people to obey... He wasn't asking them...
Yes, but God does not force his will on men. He would prefer them to come to him of their own free will. The free will God gave them. If God wanted to force us to follow his will, us following after him would mean nothing to him. We would be nothing more than mindless little clones.
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God wanted us to come to him of our free wills.
Free will avails man nothing....
You couldn't be more wrong. Your naivety on this issue just boggles my mind.
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Anything less would have meant nothing to God.
When did God tell you this?
If you really understood God's word the bible, it would be as clear to you as a Sun Shining Day. You really make God's word more complicated than it really is.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 5:37:29 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Could you show me from The New testament that Jesus stood up and stop the Romans when they humiliated, killed innocent Jews? Could you show me from New Testament that Paul stood up against Romans aggression for social justice ? You wouldn’t find that in Jesus teaching, instate what you will find is that early church member suffered injustice so they may spread the gospel to unbeliever.
Paul stopped a beating of himself by pointing out he had Roman citizenship...
The fact God ordained the civil government for the sake of order lends support to the idea that the government is obligated to act in a just manner. Jesus didn't have to point that out for it be valid... It's in His word...
One doesn't have to show an act of Jesus as proof of something..... The entire bible is "the teachings of Jesus..." Trying to narrow the focus of God's council to the short time Jesus was on earth is disingenuous... Not to mention... Jesus had a purpose, the cross.... He made a point that He was not going to be the Savior the Jews were looking for, the one who would bring the out of their temporal enslavement, but the one actually Abraham rejoiced of...
Only because he was really was a Roman citizen and being so rightly deserved to be treated like a roman citizen.
Because it was unjust....
It was only unjust because he was in fact a Roman citizen and deserved to be treated like one.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 5:52:53 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
C-33, plese what a bunch of hogwash. Do you know that early Christians rescued babies thrown in the garbage by the Romans? please it is a fearful thing to twist scripture to win, an un-winable argument.
So, how many children that would've been placed in foster homes have you taken in? Have any of them been african-american babies???? Have you taken in african american babies or teens. These are the hardest kids toi place or are you paryt of the cover-up??????????
Cover-up? Oh boy...
Only someone who's done nothing would say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 5:56:51 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
So you making up your own theology ?
That isn't theology, it's fact.
Yes, Americans do have a voice in their government, but that doesn't give Christians the right to force God's will on the general population, because they "think" that's the right thing to do. That actually makes them no better than Hilter, Stalin, Napoleon, Kim Jong, Pot Pol or Idi Amin.
Ridiculous... Christian supporting lawful changes to the law of the land through the process isn't acting like Hitler...
Just because something is lawful, dosen't make it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 6:23:04 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 599
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
What concerns me is that Christians want to turn this government in a Theocracy. Why is this a bad idea Christians ask? Look at China, whats left of the USSR, look at the Mddle East, the Vactican, Knig Henry, Queen Elizbeth or King James. All of these countries were or are part of Theocracies.
OK....lol
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When the Pope speaks these days he expects the governments to listen and do what he says. This is craziness.
You must believe you are living 300 years ago....
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This is what kind of government Christians would have today. This is what Flabbergast me, these people who are so concern with those unborn babies, aren't worried about those babies already born who are alive and breathing.
False claim...
Not a false claim. Very little is being done for those womem who do have their babies. Most of these babies are black and most white people don't want to adopt these babies. This isn't fantasy, thisis just the way it is.
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Most of those babies that would have terminated are black babies. Christians are not out looking for homes to place these babies.
I suggest you take this up with the black community... For that matter Mr. Obama...
If that isn't the most racist thing I've ever heard. You sicken me. It doesn't matter whether a child is black or white they both deserve a good home and proper upbringing. What's wrong with white families taking these babies in. If you're Christian the color of skin shouldn't matter. This isn't just a black problem, this is a Christian problem.
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They are usually more concerned with white babies.
Again, false claim...
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Not a false claim. Let's see how fast a black baby and white baby lasts in the adoption circuit
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Why aren't these so called Christians worried about those babies already alive and breathing.
Again, false claim...
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They are more worried about babies that haven't been born yet.
Again, false claim...
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There are thousands of babies and children starving each day, Where are these concerned Christians then. Where are these Christians when it comes to home placement of these children.
I hope when you are not posting you are feeding them and looking for homes...
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Most of these teens people won't take in to their homes.
Huh?
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 7:38:30 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
He couldn't spend that money on the hungry if he wanted too.
Yes he could. People gave him "tax free gifts". He can take a trip to Hawaii on that money if he wants to. He does NOT have to pay a dime in taxes on that money because the taxes are paid by the people who sent him the "gifts".
I believe for a federal election (not exactly sure it may be a little more) the limit is 10K that an individual could give him without him having to pay taxes on it. That means a husband a wife gould gift him 20K each and for each business the couple owns they could gift him another 10K.
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What's wrong with white families taking these babies in. If you're Christian the color of skin shouldn't matter. This isn't just a black problem, this is a Christian problem.
How many children of differant races have you adopted? How many handicapped children have you take in? How many boys and girls homes have you "volunteered" to do anything for?
I have MANY friends who have adopted children of differant races. I have friend who have adopted nothing but "disabled children" - that my dear is the HARDEST group to adopt out. I have friends who dedicated their lives to being house parents to some of the most dysfunctional teenagers in the state. I have worked with them closely in the past.
Most adoption agencies want to match a child with a family. Most would "prefer" they be placed in a same race home or a mixed race home for the "benefit of the child". They are looking out for what is best for the child. Not trying to meet some "socially acceptable" code of conduct.
Most of what I see you posting is based on your guess. If you stop before you type and do some study you will see that much of what you believe to be factual is false.
Your assumption that very little is done for a mother is again false. Everything from free health care, counseling, car seats, education and the like if "given" to them if they meet certain test by the government. This does not even begin to touch what our chruches do.
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Most of these teens people won't take in to their homes.
How many have you?
Tell me about "birth order" and how that came into play with your selection of a teen?
< Message edited by P31W -- 11/12/2008 7:48:23 AM >
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 7:57:20 AM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
So what scripture tell you that it's ok for you to vote for a leader who is pro murder of the innocent?
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Fact means , even though Jesus all knowing knew that Romans were unjustly oppressing the children of God, yet he kept his mouth shut, and then when disciple came and wanted him ( Jesus) to establish the Kingdom to rescue Jews from Romans , Jesus told them “ my kingdom is in heaven and not on earth”!
You are off the wall here. No one here is trying to set up a Godly kingdom.
We are simply trying to save the lives of innocent babies by overturning RvW.
Why are you spending time telling us that we are wrong. You should be out witnessing if you follow your own instruction.
Off course you are trying to establish a “ Christian nation” in America. How often do we hear the phrase from Evangelical leader “ America founded on Biblical principle” . this is a “ Christian nation” etc.. , you want Biblical standard to apply to government etc.
No where in my post I ever said abortion is right. Abortion is sin. But my concern is this ; In the name of Abortion, Christian got involved so much in politics that they are far from the Biblical stand point today. Just look back past 8 years, GWB is pro-life so Christian band over backward to support him, even if it means compromising other Biblical moral ground. How does that do any good?
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 7:58:39 AM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Is the Obama Kool-Aid that strong?
Strong delusion?
No it’s not Obama Kool-aid , it’s the Word of God, you should try out sometimes.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 8:04:51 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Abortion is sin. .
Will you say "Abortion is legalized murder of the most innocent in our nation."
quote:
GWB is pro-life so Christian band over backward to support him, even if it means compromising other Biblical moral ground.
Such as?
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 8:11:48 AM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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quote:
Abortion is sin. .
Will you say "Abortion is legalized murder of the most innocent in our nation."
Yes
quote:
GWB is pro-life so Christian band over backward to support him, even if it means compromising other Biblical moral ground.
Such as?
So sad you can't see any ? That is my point exactly!
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 8:14:48 AM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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This is a mute argument ( abortion) , I know I am not gonan go any where here. I will end this thread with this , show me in ONE place where Jesus or his Disciple stood up for social injustice, forced people to obey the Biblical law and I will change my view on this, if you can’t then I am not interested in “ Man Made theology”
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 8:21:30 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
So sad you can't see any ? That is my point exactly!
Please "educate me". You appear to have all the answers.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 11:53:20 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
Because it was unjust how they were treating a Roman citizen. Roman Citizens had certain rights and expectations of how they should be treated back then when charged with a crime. It had nothing to with objecting to the Politics of the time.
It was asked...
Could you show me from New Testament that Paul stood up against Romans aggression for social justice ?
It was answered...
Paul stopped a beating of himself by pointing out he had Roman citizenship...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:16:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
That is typical and presumptuous of you, since you are you are so well versed in the God's word "the Bible" and you are so well informed.
I know that love the sinner, hate the sin isn't a verse...
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There were many Kings who were evil and did wicked things in the Old Testament and there are many teachings in God's word.
And one of the teachings is that wicked rulers are an abomination... And that is a VERSE in the bible...
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I could take hundreds of verses from the bible and apply them to make my point too. A verse from here and there doesn't make your point.
By all means make your point of promoting and desiring unjust government/rulers with God's word...
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Your implying it though, if you think this country should be under a Theocracy.
If wanting to stop murder is calling for a theocracy I guess you are implying that you wish murder to be legal...
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No only your narrow minded viewpoints are absurd.
Like before your own words convict you...
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Exactly, so what aren't you seeing?????????????
You seem to be under the illusion that God setting up evil governments/rulers gives man the ok to do so... Doesn't work that way... His ways are higher... We are not God...
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That's right and that is exactly why Obama is in power now.
Because God puts unjust people(Like Obama) into power doesn't change the fact that it's abomination for them to act unjustly..
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Which was to save and lead as many people to God as possible.
All those given to the Son by the Father will come and He will not lose one that has been given to Him by the Father..
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Yes, but God does not force his will on men.
Yes, He does.... Pharaoh was led by the nose...
Exodus 10:20 But the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go.
Job had the will of God forced upon him...
You agree that God places men into power and deny God doesn't force His will on people... That's makes no sense...
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He would prefer them to come to him of their own free will. The free will God gave them. If God wanted to force us to follow his will, us following after him would mean nothing to him. We would be nothing more than mindless little clones.
Ezekiel 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
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You couldn't be more wrong. Your naivety on this issue just boggles my mind.
What boggles your mind is you...
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If you really understood God's word the bible, it would be as clear to you as a Sun Shining Day. You really make God's word more complicated than it really is.
Someone who doesn't know the difference between a Christians cliche and a verse shouldn't be talking about someone's lack of understanding...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:20:53 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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Well actually I have an adopted African American daughter, not only that she is mentally challenged so now what?
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
C-33, plese what a bunch of hogwash. Do you know that early Christians rescued babies thrown in the garbage by the Romans? please it is a fearful thing to twist scripture to win, an un-winable argument.
So, how many children that would've been placed in foster homes have you taken in? Have any of them been african-american babies???? Have you taken in african american babies or teens. These are the hardest kids toi place or are you paryt of the cover-up??????????
Cover-up? Oh boy...
Only someone who's done nothing would say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:24:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
Who cares if a lot of the money came from Mormons.
You made the false statement that Christians spent 60 millions dollars... You need to get your facts straight...
quote:
I daresay all Mormons are not Christians.
As a group Mormons are not Christians... Christians will be drawn out, but Mormonism is a cult...
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I guess you must be a Judge, may I never land in your court.
Whatever court you land I hope they make sure you get the facts straight...
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Even if this money was from combined sides why didn't they see it was more important to feed the hungry???
No...It's not a matter of if, you don't have you facts straight.
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I don't know why you brought up Obama's campaign, that has nothing to do with this issue.
I tossed in Obama simply to point out the absurdity of your comment...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:26:11 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
Only someone who's done nothing would say that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tinfoil must be on sale...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:30:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
Just because something is lawful, dosen't make it right!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Christian supporting lawful changes to the law of the land through the process granted by the government.
Is committing what sin? Breaking what law?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:34:54 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
No where in my post I ever said abortion is right. Abortion is sin. But my concern is this ; In the name of Abortion, Christian got involved so much in politics that they are far from the Biblical stand point today. Just look back past 8 years, GWB is pro-life so Christian band over backward to support him, even if it means compromising other Biblical moral ground. How does that do any good?
I see lots of charges but no examples.. What biblical stand are you speaking of? What moral ground was comprised...
Speaking of biblical stands and morals, tossing out unsubstantiated charges is against the word of God...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:39:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
Will you say "Abortion is legalized murder of the most innocent in our nation."
Yes
Yet you support the right of people to do so and claim people who fight against it are wrong and you base that on God's word because Jesus didn't protest against the Roman government?
So you must believe Jesus is for social injustice...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Bush, the last pro-life president - 11/12/2008 12:42:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
This is a mute argument ( abortion) , I know I am not gonan go any where here. I will end this thread with this , show me in ONE place where Jesus or his Disciple stood up for social injustice, forced people to obey the Biblical law and I will change my view on this, if you can’t then I am not interested in “ Man Made theology”
You were shown that Paul stood, and the fact that God commanded rulers to be just... The only man made theology is yours, the one where God and His people should embrace injustice...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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