RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, and BEING SAVED?
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 11/30/2008 2:49:18 AM
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SinnerSaved
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As njad stated, it depends on what you mean by Christian.
In the UK as a whole, for example, the term is used to denote a religious belief. This person is a muslim, that person a buddhist and that person a Christian. I believe that most of the Anglican community would call themselves Christian but would not call themselves 'Born again'. Many would not even understand the term being saved. The reason is simply the way the gospel is preached in the Anglican church. I would go as far as to say that in the UK, the majority of the British people who do not go to church would still describe themselves as Christians, simply because they believe in God. Unfortunately, this is where our secularism and freedom of worship has brought us - we no longer have Christian assembly in schools to start the day, our Religious Education in schools teaches all religions, our media is essentially anti-Christian, and our government is running scared of the muslims and minority groups here. (For example, we had a case recently of a Christian handing out tracts giving bible verses about homosexuality at a very large 'Gay Pride' parade. He was arrested and charged with 'hate crime'!)
In Northern Ireland, where I currently live, being a Christian, amongst the Christian community, means exactly what D4nnybOy02 said in his Opening Post - a person who follows Christ or a little Christ (although I personally do not like the latter term). However, to the unsaved here, being a Christian means 'good living' ie not swearing, not smoking not drinking etc. In fact when I was saved, many work colleagues actually said to me 'I hear that you're good living now'. Obviously, I took the opportunity to witness to them and also to put them right about what being a Christian really means.
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"Dance like nobody's watching; love like you've never been hurt. Sing like nobody's listening; live like it's heaven on earth."
Mark Twain
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 11/30/2008 7:57:12 AM
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deliveredarling
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There is a difference in the meanings. Christian means "follower of Christ", see lexicon here.
As far as I can find, associating the meaning with "little Christ" is inaccurate.
Many people use the term as a title and as a description. Meanings in present day have far changed from the biblical meaning. Christian is used only three times in the NT to DESCRIBE the followers of Christ. The term we use now was defined by Justin in the second century.
If we are followers of Christ, our words and our actions will line up the majority of the time. If we use the term to define our religion, that varies depending on denomination. Many denominations define Christianity based on rituals rather than knowing Christ and becoming more like Him. (Discipiling).
All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Rom. 10:13.
The problem with this is man jumps in and decides who is saved and who is not. We say that anybody call call on His name an be saved, but when we don't see"fruit", WE decide if they are saved or not.
This is not what the Bible says. WE can not decide another's salvation. We will know them by their fruits. They will know us by our love.
Maturity has everything to do with this. Seeds are planted and God's timing is perfect to come in and water. We want to rush the process, not knowing what God's plans for people are. When we question their salvation, we are really questioning God's Sovereignty.
Just a different perspective, IMHO.
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 11/30/2008 9:58:28 AM
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anicecupofcoffee
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quote:
There is a difference in the meanings. Christian means "follower of Christ",
Your point is valid and well taken, Sadly though, what a lexicon states and how we actually behave has changed as well. Today, too many say they're Christians yet are not followers. Both you & sinnersaved have really grasped something here.
quote:
Sinnersaved mentioned: we had a case recently of a Christian handing out tracts giving bible verses about homosexuality at a very large 'Gay Pride' parade. He was arrested and charged with 'hate crime'!)
What has society come to? We are losing our moral compass in this world today!
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James 1:18
God chose to give us new birth through the message of truth. He wanted us to be the first and best of everything he created.
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 11/30/2008 3:10:09 PM
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bob97
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I am a Christian because I have accepted Christ, He lives in my heart and I belong to Him...I have been forgiven of my sins and I am being guided by the Holy Spirit in the life I should live, so I am justified.
I have begun my walk...now my rate of growth is based on the amount of effort I apply to this walk of becoming more Christ like. Some jump right in and some linger.
I am a Christian, how good of a Christian I am depends upon my effort.
If I continue in sin without improvement…I am not a Christian.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 11/30/2008 4:09:49 PM
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MemorableWoman
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I agree with you. There are Carnal Christians and then there are True Christians who serve the Lord with all there hearts. Carnal Christians are those who claim to be christians just because being a christian pertains believing in God, they are those who say they are christians but live a lifestyle of the world.
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" These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."
John 16:33
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/1/2008 12:13:15 AM
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growingseed
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Many religions claim that they are Christians, but Jesus seperated them by teaching that until a seed dies it will not grow to become fruitful, this meaning of the heart, it must die to the old nature, then without any buts, we must learn to follow, and those who enter through the narrow gate must die to themselves to even enter, there is a reqiurement to enter into his fellowship, and that is to give up of ourselves to become more able to be molded into his Christlikeness. Those that practice outward Christianity without a heart change will surprised when no-one answers the door. For many will said Lord, Lord, and he will say i never knew you.
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/1/2008 11:29:27 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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For many people, the only reason they are anything like Christ at all, or following Christ at all, is the fact that they are going to be in heaven just like Christ.
I guess my point is, that Christianity is a *choice* to *follow*. It isn't something that happens when we are saved. It happens, if we choose to submit our lives to Christ, and give our utmost to the Highest. :) I try not to refer to myself as a Christian all that often. I am saved by grace, through faith, and I desire to follow Christ. If a follower of Christ is what you see in me, then praise the Lord for that. :)
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/14/2008 4:12:45 PM
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Gwaine
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Lol, I think questions like this one are unnecessary. Anybody can make up just about any idea and then argue out those ideas from Scripture.
It's quite simple: being a Christian and being saved are simply the same coin. Today in our various societies, one may question their premise and then infer from what they see that people making either claims are not true to what they claim for themselves. What's the difference between one who is saved and one who is a Christian? And what is the difference between the answer to that question and any other appellation in the Word that describes believers in Christ? A few examples?
1. a child of God
2. a member of the Body of Christ
3. a member of the Church
4. a brother (or sister)
I really don't see the basis of the idea to make two things out of being saved and being called a Christian or any other appellations that identify believers. In all simplicity, why would it be wrong to refer to someone as a 'Christian' who has trusted Christ as Saviour? I'm just wondering - when does one term ('saved') end and the other ('Christian') begin - just where is such an idea expressed in the Bible?
Regards.
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/14/2008 5:15:31 PM
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ot4christ
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In the words of J. Vernon McGee, "You're either a saint or you're an ain't!" Given the "follower of Christ" definition, I don't think you can be one and not the other. Granted, in today's vernacular, even a coffee shop can be a "Christian."
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/14/2008 11:47:16 PM
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elliemaejune
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You cannot be a Christian if you are not saved. I think you're making it too complicated, and I don't think there's any Scriptural basis for your conclusion.
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/15/2008 4:55:51 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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I disagree w/ those who say to seperate being saved possitionally and being a Christian willfully is to complicate it. Linking them together, however, is a mistake. They are not mutually the same. The Word Christian is only found three times in the NT. In all the times Paul addresses the various churches, as brothers and sisters (indicating they are family by the fact they are SAVED), never did he refer to them, or himself, as a Christian. Peter, once, said that if we suffer as Christians (which again, only means suffering for BEING LIKE CHRIST, or FOLLOWING CHRIST), to not be ashamed. On the basis of the many letters, and many words spoken by the apostles and the almost non-existant self reference to oneself as a Christian, but rather, saved (brother or sister) in Christ... I can't agree that being saved and Being a Christian are the same thing.
True, you cannot be a Christian unless you are saved... but being saved does not make you a Christian. That is a choice we must make, daily, as we choose to pick up our cross and follow Him... or not.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/15/2008 5:16:37 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: elliemaejune
You cannot be a Christian if you are not saved. I think you're making it too complicated, and I don't think there's any Scriptural basis for your conclusion.
"You cannot be a Christian if you are not saved. -- That is true.
However, your conclusion is not. There is more scriptural basis for what I am saying than there is for what you are saying. Please find me a time when Paul addressed the churches or himself as Christian, by the fact they were saved.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/15/2008 5:24:29 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ot4christ
In the words of J. Vernon McGee, "You're either a saint or you're an ain't!" Given the "follower of Christ" definition, I don't think you can be one and not the other. Granted, in today's vernacular, even a coffee shop can be a "Christian."
Agreed :) You're either a saint aor an aint! :).
Saint... meaning that you are redeemed by God... you are saved... or you aren't. You are redeemed... or you are not.
I don't want to argue about it more than I have. I believe the point will be seen by those have eyes to see it.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/15/2008 6:08:14 PM
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pneil
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Someone on one of the motorcycle forums I frequent has
a sig that seems appropriate.
"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more
than standing in the garage makes you a car."
Christian and "saved" are supposed to be synonymous.
Lately it seems like a lot of people use the words for things
they weren't intended for. Look at the politicians...
Pneil
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/16/2008 6:06:55 AM
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Gwaine
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
I disagree w/ those who say to seperate being saved possitionally and being a Christian willfully is to complicate it. Linking them together, however, is a mistake. They are not mutually the same. The Word Christian is only found three times in the NT.
It is alright to disagree with those whose views are contrary to yours - that is the beauty of holding a dialogue. However, it seems your disagreement is based on personal feelings on semantics rather than on a rational and coherent discussion on what one finds in Scripture. You assume it is a mistake for someone to see both terms as synonymous of the same people: believers in Jesus Christ. But you have not pointed to any verse that sees them as a mistake. The Bible never once argues to make them a "mistake", and your doing so is confusing issues further than is necessary.
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
In all the times Paul addresses the various churches, as brothers and sisters (indicating they are family by the fact they are SAVED), never did he refer to them, or himself, as a Christian. Peter, once, said that if we suffer as Christians (which again, only means suffering for BEING LIKE CHRIST, or FOLLOWING CHRIST), to not be ashamed.
Just how some believers go to great lengths to whip up unnecessary arguments is beyond me! 
We are familiar with the number of times the term 'Christian(s)' appears in Scripture (Acts 11:26; Acts 26:28; 1 Peter 4:16). Yet, in none of those instances does the Bible argue that it is a mistake to refer to those who are 'saved' as 'Christian'.
When Peter exhorts that believers should not be ashamed for suffering as Christians, he did not argue either that the term was a mistake for applying it to those who are saved!
The sort of argument you whip up here is the sort of thing that throws the thinking of many people overboard. I do not mean that crudely, but let me explain. We should not be bogged down with ideas that one cannot sustain in Scripture. For example, your argument about how many times the term is used in Scripture simply ignores the context and meaning of the use of those terms, and at the end of the day we are none-the-wiser about what you had intended to share!
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
On the basis of the many letters, and many words spoken by the apostles and the almost non-existant self reference to oneself as a Christian, but rather, saved (brother or sister) in Christ... I can't agree that being saved and Being a Christian are the same thing.
Just what is the difference? I don't see how you have established from Scripture that reference to those terms as synonymously pointing to the same people is a "mistake". If you look carefully, Peter in using the term 'Christian' in 1 Peter 4:16 asks believers to glorify God on the basis of their being called "Christian". Was he meaning that he did not see himself as a Christian while asking others to glorify God on being called that very term?
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
True, you cannot be a Christian unless you are saved... but being saved does not make you a Christian. That is a choice we must make, daily, as we choose to pick up our cross and follow Him... or not.
Could you please show us where in Scripture such an idea is ever taught? Being Christian is contingent on being saved. One is called a Christian primarily because he/she belongs to Christ and then follows Christ. Romans 8:9 makes this clear: "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ" (NIV). How could someone get "saved" and yet not "belong to Christ"? Or, to reason from your idea: how could being saved be different from belonging to Christ?
I just have not seen how you have established the distinction between being saved and being a Christian. In as much as both terms refer to the same people, I fail to see the idea behind your quote that being saved does not make one a Christian, because it would be asserting that being saved does not make one belong to Christ - which is the opposite of what we see in the Bible! 
Regards.
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/16/2008 10:06:30 AM
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d4nnyb0y02
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quote:
Could you please show us where in Scripture such an idea is ever taught? Being Christian is contingent on being saved. One is called a Christian primarily because he/she belongs to Christ and then follows Christ. Romans 8:9 makes this clear: "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ" (NIV). How could someone get "saved" and yet not "belong to Christ"? Or, to reason from your idea: how could being saved be different from belonging to Christ?
I just have not seen how you have established the distinction between being saved and being a Christian. In as much as both terms refer to the same people, I fail to see the idea behind your quote that being saved does not make one a Christian, because it would be asserting that being saved does not make one belong to Christ - which is the opposite of what we see in the Bible!
Regards.
The burden of proof is not on me, but I will try to show you.
Just because culture, of believers and unbelievers, throw the word Christian around in an unbiblical way doesn't put the burden of proof on me. The proof is still in the defintion of the Word and how *it is used* in our key point of reference... the Bible.
As I said, the word Christian is only used three times in the NT--one of which (and the first time, found in Acts) is by unbelievers, never hearing the word, who *first used the word* (it was created by them) to describe *what they saw* being done by believers. See the book of Acts, where Christian was first used to describe what the unbelievers saw at Antioch. However, being saved and being Christian are not the exact same thing. It is true that those labled by the unbelievers as "Christian" were saved... yes. However, the reason hypocricy has been so often associated with FOLLOWING CHRIST in our society, is partly due to the inaccurate use of the word Christian used to describe those who *are saved* rather than those *following Christ with their lives*. You cannot be a Christian (follow Christ) without being saved, because you would not follow Christ unless He had saved you, this is true. However, just because you are saved does not mean you are following Christ. Christian does not mean "belong to Christ," and it does not mean, "saved." To make it mean either one... is wrong, and unbiblical.
We are saved, by grace, through faith. We are Christian, followers of Christ, by our action, and I believe it is unwise to call everyone who is saved, a Christian. Let the unbelievers who see our works call us followers of Christ--we don't need to call ourselves that, just like it happened in the Bible.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/16/2008 5:56:56 PM
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ot4christ
Posts: 184
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quote:
We are Christian, followers of Christ, by our action, and I believe it is unwise to call everyone who is saved, a Christian. Very interesting  You are saying, if I understand correctly, that there are two kinds of saved people – those who are "Christians" and those who are not.
I see the opposite. I see two kinds of "Christians" – those who are saved and those who are not.
I am using the contemporary label of "Christian."
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/16/2008 8:36:56 PM
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Gwaine
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quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
quote:
Could you please show us where in Scripture such an idea is ever taught? Being Christian is contingent on being saved. One is called a Christian primarily because he/she belongs to Christ and then follows Christ. Romans 8:9 makes this clear: "And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ" (NIV). How could someone get "saved" and yet not "belong to Christ"? Or, to reason from your idea: how could being saved be different from belonging to Christ?
I just have not seen how you have established the distinction between being saved and being a Christian. In as much as both terms refer to the same people, I fail to see the idea behind your quote that being saved does not make one a Christian, because it would be asserting that being saved does not make one belong to Christ - which is the opposite of what we see in the Bible!
Regards.
The burden of proof is not on me, but I will try to show you.
Just because culture, of believers and unbelievers, throw the word Christian around in an unbiblical way doesn't put the burden of proof on me. The proof is still in the defintion of the Word and how *it is used* in our key point of reference... the Bible.
I wonder. If you didn't feel like taking responsibility to demonstrate what you broached for discussion, why even take the trouble to go that far?
Anyways, my response was not intended to burden you with anything. A simple request was made: please walk us through Scripture showing that it is a mistake to label those who are saved as Christians. That was all; but up until now you have not been able to do so.
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
As I said, the word Christian is only used three times in the NT--one of which (and the first time, found in Acts) is by unbelievers, never hearing the word, who *first used the word* (it was created by them) to describe *what they saw* being done by believers. See the book of Acts, where Christian was first used to describe what the unbelievers saw at Antioch. However, being saved and being Christian are not the exact same thing. It is true that those labled by the unbelievers as "Christian" were saved... yes. However, the reason hypocricy has been so often associated with FOLLOWING CHRIST in our society, is partly due to the inaccurate use of the word Christian used to describe those who *are saved* rather than those *following Christ with their lives*. You cannot be a Christian (follow Christ) without being saved, because you would not follow Christ unless He had saved you, this is true. However, just because you are saved does not mean you are following Christ. Christian does not mean "belong to Christ," and it does not mean, "saved." To make it mean either one... is wrong, and unbiblical.
Your ideas are now spinning out of tangent. We know what our culture makes of either terms, and it is of no concern to us momentarily. The point is that your ideas appeal to Scripture - and yet you don't seem to be able to set your thinking there and establish your premise! Dear brother, be content to see what is stated in the Word. In no instance does Scripture suppose that a saved person could not be a Christian. Let me help you with a small compromise, if you may.
Even from within the Bible, it is true that there are many people who followed Christ - "When He [Christ] was come down from the mountain, great multitudes followed Him" (Matt. 8:1). Even though they followed Him, we know that they were not called Christians; nor does Scripture warrant that they were saved.
The difference all this makes is this: those who are saved are called Christians. To foster the idea that they are not so is to enter upon a task that is your responsibility to show the same from the same Bible you appeal to. Have you been able to do so?
If your problem is that it was unbelievers who labelled the believers as 'Christians', my point is that not in one instance did any of the apostles argue against the term - and in all practical pruposes, the apostle Peter did not reject the term either! Rather, he asked believers to glorify God on that behalf (1 Pet. 4:16).
Do we worry about unbelievers giving apt appellations to believers? I don't know about you; but that's not a problem at all to me. There are so many instances in Scripture where God Himself said that believers would be called several delightful names by unbelievers! Examples? Just turn over to Isaiah 60:14 where God shows mercy to His people and declares that "all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel." Could you imagine those who despised His people are the same ones who called them such names? And would it make sense to then argue that just because it was despisers that would label them so, then it is "unscriptural"?
Lol, the point is a very simple one: anyone who is saved is known as a Christian - it is going to be an uphill task for you to show anywhere from the Bible that some Christians are not saved, or that some who are saved are not Christian. Do you care to show us simply? Thank you in advance.
quote:
ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
We are saved, by grace, through faith. We are Christian, followers of Christ, by our action, and I believe it is unwise to call everyone who is saved, a Christian. Let the unbelievers who see our works call us followers of Christ--we don't need to call ourselves that, just like it happened in the Bible.
If you're waiting for the unbeliever to call you anything, you would truly hate to be identified as a Christian, or even claim to have been saved! Today, just as Scripture foretold, unbelievers are delighted to ridicule the Christian testimony regardless of whatever lifestyle you hope to display before their eyes. What if they lampoon your testimony be calling you some very unpalatable name - would that change anything about your having been saved? Would the fact that you are saved and yet critically misunderstood by unbelievers demonstrate that you are not a Christian? If you are saved (as I trust you are), would it be correct to say that you are not a Christian - especially because I don't see how you live your life?
Dear brother, try not to be bogged down with these ideas. Biblically speaking, those who are saved are known as Christians - by virtue of the fact that they belong to Him. If we suffer because we are known as Christians, praise God all the more. Our brethren are being persecuted in Islamic countries for no other reason that their being called "Christian" - no crime greater than belong to Christ! Those persecuting them did not wait for some years to find out how their lives accurately depicted the Man known as Jesus of Nazareth. All that anyone had to do was to be identified as simply belonging to Christ.
Are we going to divide our brethren on arguments of sematics about who is saved but is not a Christian while our brethren are suffering untold persecutions in their own country on the same issue? I don't think so. Want to demonstrate the substance of our being called to belong to Christ? Let's pray for our brethren whom God has saved - they are also Christians because they belong to HIM, and not because they are waiting for some unbelievers to label them as such. I trust you would pay some heed.
Bless you.
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RE: Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, an... - 12/16/2008 8:54:01 PM
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ot4christ
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I think I see what you are trying to say. It has been taught at some of the churches I have attended. The teaching is that a person is first saved then becomes a disciple. If a person remains a baby, they never become disciples. It's the growing active "saved person" who can be called a disciple/Christian. I don't hold this view but have heard it from some well respected teachers. I don't think the "saved" person who is not growing in grace and knowledge of Christ is actually saved. IMHO
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ORIGINAL: d4nnyb0y02
Is there a difference between BEING A CHRISTIAN, and BEING SAVED? Or, are they one in the same.
I say that without a doubt, "Being Christian" and "Being saved," are not the same thing. That is because I see "Being Chrsitian," an act of our own will that is truly modeling, or being like Christ. And, "Being saved," is God's faithfulness to us to keep those whom He has called. However, though we have been called, and though we are indeed saved... our actions may not be Chrsitian, and therefore it is an insult to say that my actions are like that of Christ when they aren't. Yes, I'm saved... but am I being like Christ?
Anyways, so how do you see it? What do you understand? Certainly, if you are a Christian, you are saved... because you could not be a little Christ if you were not saved. Though God is faithful to keep us because of HIS promise to us, His promise to us is not what makes us Chrstians the way I see it. The first Christians were *called Christians* by the unbelievers who observed their actions. It wasn't a tag that these first converts of Christ gave to themselves.
Being a Christian is an ACT of OUR WILL to be like God. Being saved is a PROMISE of GOD'S WILL for us.
That's the way I see it... How do you see it?
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