RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has changed...
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:08:28 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
What am I doing today?
I'm praying for my country and the new administration that was elected to oversee it
Kat, I have never repsected you more than I do this minute.
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:12:30 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Its far from an opinion, but you can live in whatever cloud you'd like. We lived in a world of broken promises and lies. And, to be frank, I'll go back an extra 12 years as well, and say that its been that long.
Aside from that, you're right. We are going to suffer for whatever decisions we make. That is the world.
quote:
We are going to suffer, but if I'm going to suffer... I'd rather know I suffer not because of any poor decisions of my own.
I'm the exact same way. And I don't believe I made a poor decision, either. I put my faith in God, and voted for Obama, who I believed is the better candidate. He now has four years to prove me right or wrong.
quote:
"Christianity" might be split on the two issues you are referring to, but God's Word isn't.
On only one of those issues is God's Word even remotely clear.
It is an opinion. As we agree... we are going to suffer regardless of the decisions we make. George Bush's moral views were and still are the lesser evil of those views revealed to us in the other candidates--same w/ McCain.
Regarding those issues... God's Word *is* clear on homosexuality, marriage, consequently homosexual marriage, and abortion (whichever we're referring to). I'm pretty confident that God knowing us before we were born and willfully aborting a fetus is murder and faithlessness (which is the opposite of the faithfulness of what it would take to keep an inconvenient child), are all addressed clearly in God's Word. It's only remotely obvious to those who remotely acknoweldge His Word, no offense, but it is clear.
Asside from *opinions* on how to dictate government... these are moral issues that seperate them, and the moral issues by which we should be casting our ballot--not just in the vote, but in every decision we make.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:23:59 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5771
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
No I didn't vote yesterday.
But the guy who won is the guy for whom I would have voted if I'd been a Yank.
May we have your permisson to ship him over there? As he would fit right in with your socialistic leaning government.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:24:01 PM
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hotsaucygma
Posts: 3106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
quote:
ORIGINAL: hotsaucygma
....... I don't know that this President will fling the door any wider than it already is. Surely he will do one or the other (open or close) because neutrality is a sign of a man who only talks the talk. I think the door is already open - I don't expect him to close it, but it's already here.
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ORIGINAL: hotsaucygma
The ACLU has been around for a long time. It will be here a lot longer. As will most immorality. But laying it at Obama's door isn't realistic. The ACLU has to bring it's cases before the judges in the court- all the way (possibly) to the Supreme Court. The last couple Supreme Court appointments they have been made by Bush- supposedly conservative. Just because Obama has been elected I don't see that will change the ideology of the court.
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ORIGINAL: hotsaucygma
- I do not believe any more or any less human lives will be "sucked out of the womb" because of Obamb's election than if McCain had been elected, unfortunately Roe v Wade is very unlikely to be overturned no matter who is President. There is simply no way of knowing this. No, however that was the reason many give for voting for Bush and it didn't happen then, I don't see it would happen if McCain had been voted in either. Possibly, but most likely not- IMO.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hotsaucygma
Perhaps if we focus on changing the "choice" before the it gets to that point we will have more success. Any suggestions on how?
When Christianity is spit on more and more & diluted Christianity is on the upswing, just how do we accomplish this in a practical manner? We need practical solutions. I guess I thought when a person states they are Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, that this also speaks volumes about their advocacy in the matter.  Some of us advocate verbally, while others are active. I should hope that a man who takes the presidential oath will be an active advocate for his choices and not just a lot of hot air to get votes.
I don't now how to accomplish this. I sure wish I did. I just saw a piece on the news last week that stats on teens that made "virginity pledges" having sex before marriage are about the same as those of teens that did not make the pledges... I don't know why that is or what to do. Again, wish I did.
_____________________________
Dear Lord, let my words today be as sweet and delicious as cheesecake... for tomorrow I may have to eat them!
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:26:37 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
No I didn't vote yesterday.
But the guy who won is the guy for whom I would have voted if I'd been a Yank.
May we have your permisson to ship him over there? As he would fit right in with your socialistic leaning government.
Thanks
RC
I lol'd. Keep it up and you'll be working in the sewers. :P
Not that it isn't an honest job... just not most desirable for many. :)
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:27:28 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
It is an opinion.
George Bush's moral views were and still are the lesser evil of those views revealed to us in the other candidates
This is also an opinion, as Bush's "moral" views have lead to stealing, murder, ignorance, and other abominations.
We share the same opinion on abortion, Daniel. But may I direct you to a thread of Christians on this forum who would disagree with us?
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:34:57 PM
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bravjim
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Torch, I am very disappointed if you think that both of those issues are not covered in the bible.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
Its far from an opinion, but you can live in whatever cloud you'd like. We lived in a world of broken promises and lies. We went to war based on lies. We still have abortion. There was never an ammendment made to ban gay marriage (both of those issues went away for four years... and for the record, both of those issues were reasons why I voted for Bush, TWICE! and was let down). And, to be frank, I'll go back an extra 12 years as well, and say that its been that long.
Aside from that, you're right. We are going to suffer for whatever decisions we make. That is the world.
quote:
We are going to suffer, but if I'm going to suffer... I'd rather know I suffer not because of any poor decisions of my own.
I'm the exact same way. And I don't believe I made a poor decision, either. I put my faith in God, and voted for Obama, who I believed is the better candidate. He now has four years to prove me right or wrong. If his speeches turn out to be a pack of lies like Bush, Jr.'s, I'll be more than happy to send him packing and vote for the Republican candidate
quote:
"Christianity" might be split on the two issues you are referring to, but God's Word isn't.
On only one of those issues is God's Word even remotely clear. And even on that, we have debates on how to handle the situation. If it wasn't, how do you explain so many factions of our faith having so many differing opinions on how to interpret God's word and fit it into the reality of this world.
_____________________________
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfilll the lust of the flesh.
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:35:12 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
It is an opinion.
George Bush's moral views were and still are the lesser evil of those views revealed to us in the other candidates
This is also an opinion, as Bush's "moral" views have lead to stealing, murder, ignorance, and other abominations.
The problem with this, is that even if that is the case (and I stress *if*), and Bush's moral views lead to stealing, murder, ignorance, and other abominations.... those views were not *presented* to the voting public (for obvious reasons I think). Those views *came to light*, in your opinion, in leiu of events following the vote. Like we agreed... we are going to suffer regardless of the choices we make. However, based on *knowledge we had*, Bush was and will always be the right choice. We can only make decisions based on what we know. Do not misunderstand me... I'm not saying he was a Godsend of a president. What I'm saying is that if someone is lying to us (not saying this is the case), or concealing something from us... or something isn't revealed to us which is evil until *after* we have made a decision, which was based on the knowlegde we had *at the time*... then praise the Lord for His sovereign will. :)
That being so... and basing my opinion on the knowledge we have *at this time*, nothing can convince me that Obama was the lesser of evils.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:41:06 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
The problem with this, is that even if that is the case (and I stress *if*), and Bush's moral views lead to stealing, murder, ignorance, and other abominations.... those views were not *presented* to the voting public (for obvious reasons I think). Those views *came to light*, in your opinion, in leiu of events following the vote. Like we agreed... we are going to suffer regardless of the choices we make. However, based on *knowledge we had*, Bush was and will always be the right choice.
YOu have COMLPETELY lost me. Are you speaking about Bush's views PRIOR to his election in 2000, or in regards to this present election?
And some of what you're referring to as "opinions," are actually pretty established facts. Please back up a moment.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 11/5/2008 4:11:34 PM >
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 3:47:42 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SeminoleTom
I know there is an election board but hopefully this can stay on the general board because not everyone goes over there.
Anyway, I voted yesterday and the guy I voted for lost. You know since I've become deeper in my walk with Christ it's almost as if I feel it's no big deal. Before becoming Born Again I would get very upset if the person I voted for lost...now it's almost like I'm free from that. Maybe it's because I know that in the end God is in charge. So did you vote yesterday and do you become angry if your guy loses?
My guy, McCain, lost. I'm not angry... I'm very disappointed.
Here is how I feel and what I told my kids and friends on my blog:
The Election & Our Nation....
I am greatly saddened by the state of our nation... and the outcome of this election. I believe that our nation is in for a rude awakening.
I want to address those of you who voted for Obama and I KNOW that you are Christians.... and also those across America who are Christians, yet voted for him because he SAID he would bring change to the economy and health care.
You sold your Christian morals and beliefs for the sake of these two things, ushering in a moral decay in our nation under the tutalidge of one who believes in abortion and the right for gays to marry along with other un-moral beliefs.
This to me, is extremely sad. If you sell off these beliefs for the sake of this man... then how easy will it be for you to follow after the anti-christ if you are left behind?
You may think I am being a little fanatical... and I'm not doing any preaching here... BUT... this is one area that causes me great concern.
Just an added side note to those of you who thought that Obama would bring such great change... and I warned you that he was just talking shmack... Did you hear what he said in his speach last night?
He said, and I quote... "We may not see change in one year... and we may not see it in one term... but..."
Something to think about.
I believe we are going to be in grave danger of our Christian rights being attacked... and I believe that those of you who voted for Obama are going to be sorely disappointed.
We're in trouble... and you need to go back and re-read Revelation this very day.
I love you all... and God bless America.
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 4:06:43 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
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From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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No matter who won, God is still in control and it is my job to trust Him...
"Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding. 22 He reveals deep and secret things; He knows what is in the darkness, And light dwells with Him." -Daniel 2
It is also my job as a Christian to pray for Obama whether I voted for him or not.
Sour grapes don't help anything or anyone!!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 4:21:13 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kat_D
No matter who won, God is still in control and it is my job to trust Him...
"Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding. 22 He reveals deep and secret things; He knows what is in the darkness, And light dwells with Him." -Daniel 2
It is also my job as a Christian to pray for Obama whether I voted for him or not.
Sour grapes don't help anything or anyone!!
Amen!
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 4:23:04 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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quote:
This is true... but we can still be disappointed.
Agreed! This is only expected.
But disappointment is one thing. To be condemning the man and declairing his Presidency a failure before he's even had a chance to serve a day of his term? That's something else.
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 4:27:18 PM
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SuspenseWriter
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Frankly, we may be past the point of no return.
Granted, there are pockets of Bible-believing evangelicals here and there, but polling says nearly fifty percent of the church voted in this man. Fifty percent voted for a man who gleefully told NARAL he'll reverse every bit of what precious little pro-life legislation has been passed since 1973. A man who stridently told his gay and lesbian toadies he'll push for "gay unions" nationwide. A man whose socialist "wealth distribution" plan is about to get a total greenlight (never mind it's failed everywhere else in the world it's been tried).
And fifty percent of those who name Jesus as Lord signed on for that stuff. Fifty percent. That says something about the church in America. God is well within His rights pull His hand away--as He's done with countless other nations that have spit in His face; we're not immune--and tell us, "Fine. I'm the Lord Most High. I'll just raise up another one."
There's a sense of dread on me I simply cannot shake. We've crossed a line, folks.
And there may be no going back.
_____________________________
John Robinson
writer of suspense...obviously!
www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com/my-journal/
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 4:43:51 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
And fifty percent of those who name Jesus as Lord signed on for that stuff. Fifty percent. That says something about the church in America. God is well within His rights pull His hand away--as He's done with countless other nations that have spit in His face; we're not immune--and tell us, "Fine. I'm the Lord Most High. I'll just raise up another one."
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. What does it say about the party who was supposed to be in favor of ending abortion, or protecting our views on marriage? For 20 years, they made promises and did nothing.
If they're not going to act on these issues that we see as important, why should we vote for them?
Maybe this IS God's message to the people in charge who are SUPPOSED to be upholding his values, and he's telling them, "Look, if you're just going to pay me lipservice, I'm going to pull my support away from you, as well. My people have trusted you, and you've let them down. And you've let me down in return."
That said, instead of focusing on issues that we're afraid of and cannot fix at this time, can we focus on important ones what we need to come together on no matter what side of the asile we're on? We have 2 wars going on. We have an economy in shambles. We have a planet that is being polluted beyond belief. We have unemployment. We have health care problems.
Can we PLEASE COME TOGETHER to solve what we can? Maybe God has allowed Obama to come to power for reasons OTHER than just abortion and gay marriage? He doesn't just care about those two issues. Maybe God wants us to UNITE as a nation and heal ourselves, rather than fight bitterly and pretend that our side is the only one that matters.
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 4:52:17 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
The problem with this, is that even if that is the case (and I stress *if*), and Bush's moral views lead to stealing, murder, ignorance, and other abominations.... those views were not *presented* to the voting public (for obvious reasons I think). Those views *came to light*, in your opinion, in leiu of events following the vote. Like we agreed... we are going to suffer regardless of the choices we make. However, based on *knowledge we had*, Bush was and will always be the right choice.
YOu have COMLPETELY lost me. Are you speaking about Bush's views PRIOR to his election in 2000, or in regards to this present election?
And some of what you're referring to as "opinions," are actually pretty established facts. Please back up a moment.
I'll give you an analogy.
Lets say you were going to buy a house, and there were only two to choose from (like often the case when voting for a president).
One looks nice on the outside... the other looks bad on the outside. Consider these the "moral views" of the candidates.
You aren't allowed to look inside the homes, but they are adjacent to eachother on the same street, and have the exact same square footage and layout inside.
Which would you pick? The one that looks good on the outside, or the one that looks bad? All other things equal... of course you would pick the one with the good exterior.
Sadly, once you get inside the house you discover it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
Such is the case w/ voting for a human being to rule over you -- you cannot see into their heart, to see every decision they will make. However, we must make a judgment call based on the knowledge we have. The knowledge we had prior to the election tells us Bush was the right choice... and same for McCain -- the lesser of two evils. Their stance on topics like homosexuality (and marriage), and abortion reveal this.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 4:58:45 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
I'll give you an analogy.
Lets say you were going to buy a house, and there were only two to choose from (like often the case when voting for a president).
One looks nice on the outside... the other looks bad on the outside. Consider these the "moral views" of the candidates.
You aren't allowed to look inside the homes, but they are adjacent to eachother on the same street, and have the exact same square footage and layout inside.
Which would you pick? The one that looks good on the outside, or the one that looks bad? All other things equal... of course you would of course pick the one with the good exterior.
Sadly, once you get inside the house you discover it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
Such is the case w/ voting for a human being to rule over you -- you cannot see into their heart, to see every decision they will make. However, we must make a judgment call based on the knowledge we have. The knowledge we had prior to the election tells us Bush was the right choice... and same for McCain -- the lesser of two evils.
That is a rather poor analogy. It may excuse the election of George W. Bush to office, but it does NOT in any way make him "the right choice;" it makes him a poor choice.
quote:
There stance on topics like homosexuality (and marriage), and abortion reveal this.
What about their stances on capital punishment, human rights, war and peace, dealing with poverty, and other moral issues? Or are those the only two that God cares about? I know you like to think that you have all the answers, but believe it or not, not everything is black-and-white. If it was, we wouldn't have different denominations with different takes on parts of the Bible, and putting importance on different areas.
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 5:02:30 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
Joined: 9/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
I'll give you an analogy.
Lets say you were going to buy a house, and there were only two to choose from (like often the case when voting for a president).
One looks nice on the outside... the other looks bad on the outside. Consider these the "moral views" of the candidates.
You aren't allowed to look inside the homes, but they are adjacent to eachother on the same street, and have the exact same square footage and layout inside.
Which would you pick? The one that looks good on the outside, or the one that looks bad? All other things equal... of course you would of course pick the one with the good exterior.
Sadly, once you get inside the house you discover it wasn't all it was cracked up to be.
Such is the case w/ voting for a human being to rule over you -- you cannot see into their heart, to see every decision they will make. However, we must make a judgment call based on the knowledge we have. The knowledge we had prior to the election tells us Bush was the right choice... and same for McCain -- the lesser of two evils.
That is a rather poor analogy. It may excuse the election of George W. Bush to office, but it does NOT in any way make him "the right choice;" it makes him a poor choice.
quote:
There stance on topics like homosexuality (and marriage), and abortion reveal this.
What about their stances on capital punishment, human rights, war, dealing with poverty, and other moral issues? Or are those the only two that God cares about?
What about their stances? You can't tell me that a God who is going to execute justice on large numbers of people, who's future is a second DEATH, is against capital punishment from a governmental standpoint. God obviously has deemed death to be a very suitable and necessary instrument to keeping the peace, when ruling rightly from the seat of authority.
What about human rights and dealing w/ poverty? You would have to have a pretty powerful argument to prove that those somehow topple the stance on abortion and homosexuality.
It was a perfect analogy, but I'm sorry you reject it.
_____________________________
OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 5:04:44 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1951
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From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
What about their stances? You can't tell me that a God who is going to execute justice on large numbers of people, who's future is a second DEATH, is against capital punishment from a governmental standpoint. God obviously has deemed death to be a very suitable and necessary instrument to keeping the peace, when ruling rightly from the seat of authority.
Yeah, actually I can tell you this. Because I believe in a God who's Son came down and told us that an eye for an eye was no longer appropriate. Who was righteous and died upon the cross as an innocent man, and showed us just how wrong such an act was.
God, and only God, is suitable for judging when it is time for us to die.
quote:
What about human rights and dealing w/ poverty? You would have to have a pretty powerful argument to prove that those somehow topple the stance on abortion and homosexuality.
I didn't say that they topple them. But they're EQUALLY as important as abortion. They're easily more important than homosexuality.
quote:
It was a perfect analogy, but I'm sorry you reject it.
It was an immature analogy only an immature individual would make. I know you like to think that you have all the answers, but believe it or not, not everything is black-and-white. If it was, we wouldn't have different denominations with different takes on parts of the Bible, and putting importance on different areas.
You're young as both a person and as a Christian. And while you have a great zeal and a wonderful faith, but you are lacking in answers, my friend.
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RE: Did you vote yesterday? My view as a believer has c... - 11/5/2008 5:08:21 PM
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d4nnyb0y02
Posts: 318
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TorchHeart
quote:
What about their stances? You can't tell me that a God who is going to execute justice on large numbers of people, who's future is a second DEATH, is against capital punishment from a governmental standpoint. God obviously has deemed death to be a very suitable and necessary instrument to keeping the peace, when ruling rightly from the seat of authority.
Yeah, actually I can tell you this. Because I believe in a God who's Son came down and told us that an eye for an eye was no longer appropriate. Who was righteous and died upon the cross as an innocent man, and showed us just how wrong such an act was.
God, and only God, is suitable for judging when it is time for us to die.
If the law says "If you murder someone, you will get the death penalty," then whoever committed murder did it to themselves. There is nothing morally wrong whatsoever with executing a death penalty, and I believe you would have a very difficult time scripturally proving that.
I, however, could prove to you that murder and homsexuality are wrong, with ease.
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OSAS is the Gospel.
(Gal 1:6;5:4) I | | |
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And I'm disappointed in those who think that everything is so black-and-white. Please... if they're so black-and-white, then how do you explain all the varying opinions on them by the followers of Christ? Particularly with abortion.
