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If the law says "If you murder someone, you will get the death penalty," then whoever committed murder did it to themselves.

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I, however, could prove to you that murder and homsexuality are wrong, with ease.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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If the law says "If you murder someone, you will get the death penalty," then whoever committed murder did it to themselves.

We are not bound by the law; rather we are set free from it. Read Galatians.

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Go tell that to a police officer.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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Go tell that to a police officer.

I'm sorry. It thought you were referring to The Law (as in the Old Testement).

That said. So what if the law says that "if you murder someone, you get the death penalty." The law also currently says that women have the right to get an abortion on demand. Its just another law that needs to be changed so we're more in line with God's Word.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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Torch, I am very disappointed if you think that both of those issues are not covered in the bible.

And I'm disappointed in those who think that everything is so black-and-white. Please... if they're so black-and-white, then how do you explain all the varying opinions on them by the followers of Christ? Particularly with abortion.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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If the law says "If you murder someone, you will get the death penalty," then whoever committed murder did it to themselves.

We are not bound by the law; rather we are set free from it. Read Galatians.

No, we are not bound by the law. But we do suffer consequences for breaking the law. For those who are not saved, they will be righteously judged according to the law. It is the law that shows us our sin, and it is only through faith that we come out from under the law.
Oh, and by the way, Romans directs us to follow all laws set by government, just as it directs us to honor our leaders because they are set by God.

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I, however, could prove to you that murder and homsexuality are wrong, with ease.

I never argued otherwise. We hold the same view on abortion, but the fact is that some don't view it the same way we do (as murder).

You're not only confused, you're arguing the wrong points, even.

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If you need any more guidance, then ask yourself, what would Jesus Himself say about abortion or the concept of redefining marriage!

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and by the way, Romans directs us to follow all laws set by government, just as it directs us to honor our leaders because they are set by God.

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ORIGINAL: SeminoleTom

I know there is an election board but hopefully this can stay on the general board because not everyone goes over there.

Anyway, I voted yesterday and the guy I voted for lost. You know since I've become deeper in my walk with Christ it's almost as if I feel it's no big deal. Before becoming Born Again I would get very upset if the person I voted for lost...now it's almost like I'm free from that. Maybe it's because I know that in the end God is in charge. So did you vote yesterday and do you become angry if your guy loses?

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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If you need any more guidance, then ask yourself, what would Jesus Himself say about abortion or the concept of redefining marriage!

I'm not the one who needs guidance. That's been shown.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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and by the way, Romans directs us to follow all laws set by government, just as it directs us to honor our leaders because they are set by God.

Then by that logic, we should never oppose our leaders, and never question or try to get laws changed. So abortion should remain legal.

I'm sorry. That doesn't hold up.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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If you need any more guidance, then ask yourself, what would Jesus Himself say about abortion or the concept of redefining marriage!

I'm not the one who needs guidance. That's been shown. I have asked Christ for His guidance, and I believe that He is leading and has led me down the path I chose in the election booth. I believe He has shown me the hearts of the men we were choosing, as well as shown the results of what we have chosen in the past. I believe that I am still following Him.

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ORIGINAL: rcjames

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ORIGINAL: manda59
No I didn't vote yesterday.

But the guy who won is the guy for whom I would have voted if I'd been a Yank.

May we have your permisson to ship him over there? As he would fit right in with your socialistic leaning government.

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ORIGINAL: manda59
Whichever of our 3 main political parties were in power, we'd have a socialist-leaning government. And I thank God for it, especially on behalf of the "have-nots" in society.

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So did you vote yesterday and do you become angry if your guy loses?

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Are you saying that the book of Romans doesn't hold up. It is stated in I believe chapter 13. It is not the only place that it is said either. Even Jesus said that we are to obey those who rule over us.

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In the original post that I quoted from, you stated there was no clear guidance to one of the issues at the heart of this discussion. So I will ask you again. What would Jesus say about abortion or redefining marriage. Answer the question.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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This is true... but we can still be disappointed.

Agreed! This is only expected.

But disappointment is one thing. To be condemning the man and declairing his Presidency a failure before he's even had a chance to serve a day of his term? That's something else.

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ORIGINAL: SuspenseWriter

Frankly, we may be past the point of no return.

Granted, there are pockets of Bible-believing evangelicals here and there, but polling says nearly fifty percent of the church voted in this man. Fifty percent voted for a man who gleefully told NARAL he'll reverse every bit of what precious little pro-life legislation has been passed since 1973. A man who stridently told his gay and lesbian toadies he'll push for "gay unions" nationwide. A man whose socialist "wealth distribution" plan is about to get a total greenlight (never mind it's failed everywhere else in the world it's been tried).

And fifty percent of those who name Jesus as Lord signed on for that stuff. Fifty percent. That says something about the church in America. God is well within His rights pull His hand away--as He's done with countless other nations that have spit in His face; we're not immune--and tell us, "Fine. I'm the Lord Most High. I'll just raise up another one."

There's a sense of dread on me I simply cannot shake. We've crossed a line, folks.

And there may be no going back.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

Can we PLEASE COME TOGETHER to solve what we can? Maybe God has allowed Obama to come to power for reasons OTHER than just abortion and gay marriage? He doesn't just care about those two issues. Maybe God wants us to UNITE as a nation and heal ourselves, rather than fight bitterly and pretend that our side is the only one that matters.

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ORIGINAL: pstrdebi

That word "unite" can be real sticky... because that is how the end times (hours) is going to be... a one world religion.

We don't have to unite with evil... and his values are evil.

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ORIGINAL: bravjim

Some are spiritually minded, while others are carnally minded. Some fill their minds with the word of God and seek to stand according to His word, while others seek worldly wisdom over Godly wisdom. Some see God's heart in black and white, and others see His heart with shades of gray. He is a righteous God, a holy God, set apart from the world; and His thoughts are not like the thoughts of man. If you need any more guidance, then ask yourself, what would Jesus Himself say about abortion or the concept of redefining marriage!

You cannot serve two masters; You will either love the one and hate the other; or you will hate the one and love the other.

Fix your mind on the things of the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

For those who live according to the flesh fix their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

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ORIGINAL: TorchHeart

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In the original post that I quoted from, you stated there was no clear guidance to one of the issues at the heart of this discussion. So I will ask you again. What would Jesus say about abortion or redefining marriage. Answer the question.

It depends on who you ask. Even if you look in the Bible. There is no clear indication where God says life begins, though some have made arguments about it being at birth, at conception, at certain points during the pregnancy. As for redefining marriage... well, we know what Paul says and what the Old Testement says. We don't know what Christ, Himself, would say.

So its pretty open, son.

MY BELIEF according to how I INTERPRET THE BIBLE (because it is open to interpretation) is that life starts at conception, and that homosexuality is wrong. It is also my belief that these aren't the only two issues that are at stake, and that Christ cares about a lot more stuff than just these two. They aren't the only two that make up a man's heart. Yet, these seem to be the only two that matter.... even though they don't matter to the people running.

No, it's not open to interpretation. That right there is your problem, son. The bible says what it says, it means what it means. Ask Christ what He thinks. Stop trying to figure it out yourself according to human reasoning, which is exactly what you are doing.


EDIT: You know what, I've done all I can to try and bring peace and sense to this issue. Obviously, sour grapes and boasting is going to continue on through this thread, as well as flawed fundamentalist logic. I'm officially done with you, and I leave this thread and those involved with it to the mercy of God.