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WHY CHURCH? - 11/6/2008 3:21:50 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Please, open for all to answer.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/6/2008 4:12:44 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Please, open for all to answer.
All very good questions.
For me, what "draws" people to go to church first? Usually, it's the "direction" of someone, whether it's a parent or grandparent. Or, perhaps the "testimony" of a believer to someone who is 'unchurched' will get someone thinking that perhaps church is for them. Perhaps it's an "outreach" ministry....our church is relentless in this: biblically-based financial planning seminars, sports ministry, a pregnancy crisis center, etc..etc...they assist those from within the community with their needs, and, as a result, many of those people do get further involved with the church, accept Christ, etc..etc...Or, a co-worker invites someone from work to their church's christmas program, and, while there, he/she hears the Word of God and Gospel taught...
What directs them as to WHICH church? All depends on the person. Perhaps you go to a particular church because that's just where you've always gone, or you were invited there by friends, or you know that a particular church has a good reputation for strong biblical teaching.....for us, it was definitely "trial and error". We visited countless churches in our area, before finally making the prayerful decision that our current church was where God wanted us to be.
What keeps them there? Spiritual growth, fellowship and the "connection" with others in the church, the strong biblical teaching....(those are at least a FEW of the reasons why we continue to attend the church we do...after 6 years of going there)
6 years ago, we left a church, and searched for another. We left because we were not growing spiritually....the teaching became biblically weak, and after 4 or so years there, we didn't really feel "a part of" the church, or felt a "connection" with really anyone there. So, we left, and no one really noticed.
“Let us not neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some,
but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see
the Day draw near.” –Hebrews 10:25
< Message edited by kernsfamily -- 11/6/2008 4:28:46 PM >
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/6/2008 5:06:41 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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Thank you kernsfamily for your well thought out response.
I too, am in a quandary as you were 6 years ago and having difficulty finding a home church, but a wise man once said, (to paraphrase) "You can continue your search for the perfect church, but as soon as you attend, it will no longer be perfect" and that is my fear......that I may be searching for something that simply does not exist. I am not seeking a perfect church, just a good old fashioned church that is focused solely on the gospel and witness outreach. Just when I think I do, the preacher says something like, "John Wesley took witnessing the gospel seriously and worked fervently to do so for God & he didn't even have the right doctrine".
One lousy suffix to a single sentence was so derrogatory about a man & his life's work that it sounded unchristian coming from the pulpit. A preacher should be the example to his people, in conduct, love, in spirit, faith, and purity. Somehow when he speaks negatively about another (other than a sinful other & even then, he should not state names), it says to me, this is not the man I need to be listening to.
Are there any simple churches out there that accept people simply as they are and the preacher preaches simply the gospel and simply remains above reproach?
It IS that simple.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/6/2008 5:36:32 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
Are there any simple churches out there that accept people simply as they are and the preacher preaches simply the gospel and simply remains above reproach?
Not quite sure what you mean by "simple churches", but when it comes to accepting people simply as they are....the preacher simply preaching the gospel and remaining above reproach? That explains my church....and, many other churches out there, as well.
For us, it was a matter of PRAYER...
quote:
Somehow when he speaks negatively about another (other than a sinful other & even then, he should not state names), it says to me, this is not the man I need to be listening to.
when we heard many "negative perceptions' about our church (before we visited for the first time), we "believed it all", and were intent on not visiting there. Then, at God's insistence, we did decide to check it out FOR OURSELVES. And, found all those "negative perception" that we had heard to be baseless....and not really accurate....they were "perceptions" put out by people who had never even been to the church before.
My church certainly isn't perfect....but, as you said, none are. It's just like what an economics professor in college would say about Capitalism, "It isn't perfect....nothing is...but, it's the closest thing to perfect so far"
You've just got to go and attend/visit all the churches you can....and visit/check them out....and pray...be patient, as it may take a while......and, you'll eventually come around to one that you know is "home"...
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/6/2008 11:23:18 PM
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pstrdebi
Posts: 739
Joined: 4/28/2008
From: So. Oregon, by way of So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Please, open for all to answer.
Wow...
Good questions!
I have thought about this before... but maybe not quite like this... or maybe kinda.
(I have a lot on my mind tonight... so bear with me  )
I'll start with #2 (which I think also answers #1)... I believe the Holy Spirit (if we're led by the Spirit... or allow Him to lead) directs us... draws us... leads us. It could be in many different ways... and I believe that God places us in churches where we will grow. Of course, we need to be open to growth and have a teachable spirit.
I guess my thinking in this is that we, the body, are comprised of so many different personalities, needs, etc... for example... a rather shy Conservative new believer may be led by God to a Conservative style church... where others may be led to Pentecostal churches, etc.
and for #3... many different things. It could be a person who is comfortable right where they are... no desire to grow... and the church may be one that does everything status quo... no change... the "that's the way we've always done it" church. In that case... their complacent spirit keeps them there.
For some who are thriving and growing and learning and teaching and leading in a church... God keeps them there to continue growing and learning and... well you get it.
However... In that same church ( the last one we looked at) God may want to move you from that church to one that isn't doing all too well, so that you can, through Christ, impart the knowledge of the growing and the learning and... everything else.
So... after all that Babbling... I'd say for #1 and 2... it's the Holy Spirit.
and #3... I don't think there is any one answer.
Did I help... or did I just confuse you more.  I think I confused myself.  I need some sleep! 
_____________________________
"For in Him we live and move and have our being..." Acts 17:28a
http://www.therockfellowship.org
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/7/2008 7:21:24 AM
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rwe2156
Posts: 2473
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
Being saved?
quote:
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
Hopefully lead by the Holy Spirit on a journey to truth.
I think it is healthy to experience different denominations once
a person is established in their faith.
quote:
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Agreeing with their church?
Liking the programs?
Adoring the pastor?
Assembling with their friends?
How about simply desiring fellowship of believers and loving the brethren?
_____________________________
The Truth is between the tensions. The "contradictions"only reflect our lack of understanding.
So we choose sides. God help us.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/7/2008 5:38:22 PM
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jn1010lf
Posts: 352
Joined: 4/20/2005
Status: offline
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Hello Misunderstoodduck
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
As far as I'm concerned all three questions can be answered by much the same words. I got to church to hear a positive message. Such is impossible to come by through our media on either side.
I attend a church where the fulness of Jesus Christ is preached. He is the only hope that mankind has. He is life and without Him living in me, I am fully dead. He is light and therefore, light dwells in me and cancels the darkness that this world placed into me.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/7/2008 7:46:27 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 2072
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first The Holy Spirit
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to. The Holy Spirit
3. And what "keeps" them there. The Holy Spirit
Please, open for all to answer.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/8/2008 8:22:36 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first It doesn't matter
quote:
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to. This also doesn't matter
quote:
3. And what "keeps" them there. It still doesn't matter.
Usually the answer to all three is "felt needs," but is that what the scripture says? Are you running a church or a Country Club?
see: http://www.livingwaters.com/good/
Please, open for all to answer.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/10/2008 12:18:25 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
It doesn't matter
This also doesn't matter
It still doesn't matter.
Only to you.
If anything at all matters, then everything matters. At least to someone, somewhere, somehow.
Everything matters or it simply would not be.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/10/2008 5:05:38 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
1. What "draws" people to go to church first The Holy Spirit Not programs or people of like interests?
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to. The Holy Spirit Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit would not guide me to an all African American AME church, as well as a snowy white Lutheran church?Or are you saying the HS is in one, but not the other?
3. And what "keeps" them there. The Holy Spirit Not programs or people of like interests?
That would be great if it were a fact, as the Holy Spirit definitely should be our guide, but if that TRULY were to be the case, I should think there would be no segregation, don't you?
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/11/2008 11:41:23 AM
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ezerfi
Posts: 25
Joined: 11/11/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Please, open for all to answer.
Hello!
Depending on mans response to God and his thirst for truth and growth, he will come to the right church and stay for no plants ever grow mature being often transferred. People seeks for TRUTH, BELONGINGNESS and SECURITY. The church must be relevant yet remain to be Biblically sound; and, Christians who really mean it will gladly stay.
Godspeed! Thanks,
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/13/2008 11:43:57 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DuckTalk
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
It doesn't matter
This also doesn't matter
It still doesn't matter.
Only to you.
Does God care how many butts are in the pews? Does God care about marketing plans?
Duck are you a good person???
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/13/2008 11:47:52 PM
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Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ezerfi
quote:
ORIGINAL: misunderstoodduck
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Please, open for all to answer.
Hello!
Depending on mans response to God and his thirst for truth and growth, he will come to the right church and stay for no plants ever grow mature being often transferred. People seeks for TRUTH, BELONGINGNESS and SECURITY. The church must be relevant yet remain to be Biblically sound; and, Christians who really mean it will gladly stay.
Godspeed! Thanks,
My Bible doesn't say "relevant" or "culturally relevant." That is a lie from the pit of hell. That is why organized religion will always fail. Organized religion is usually led by man and if not led by sinful man then it will be knocked off track by sinful men and women.
Support yourself from Scripture Alone!
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 9:50:40 AM
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floydette
Posts: 1087
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DuckTalk
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Please, open for all to answer.
Interesting questions you pose!
I think one answer to all of the question is the Holy Spirit. But how he does that can look differently.
Response to question 1 - Sometimes people go to church because it is their cultural tradition. Sometimes people feel like they are missing something in their lives, so they try church to see if that will help fill the void. There are people who feel that they can make friends, or find a partner at a church. Some go there to network their business. Some go to seek God.
Response to question 2 -It is interesting when you study family and organizational systems. While we'd like to often think that the Spirit is directing us as to "which" church we should attend (and of course it does) often we choose a particular church because it mirrors the system in which we grew up. If we grew up in a conservative family - strict even - we will probably lean toward attending a "strict" church. If we grew up with grace, we will probably be inclined to attend a church that mirrors grace. It is interesting when we begin to look at churches, and see that many people in a certain church deal with similar issues - this is an example of how that might look. It is fascinating to study this area.
Response to question 3 - All of these questions have so many possible answers, don't you think?? One may stay because they have found a community with whom they'd like to journey. Perhaps they have found a place of comfort (be that a good comfort, or a complacent one :) Some people do not like to change, so they will never leave no matter what. And, some people have great loyalty in their personality, so that will keep them at a church, (again) no matter what. Perhaps they love the people, and know that this is their home. Sometimes, because of the "system" in place - they simply do not feel like they can leave. A church that I attended in the past considered you a traitor if you left... (example)
It is fascinating to ponder isn't it?
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 11:21:33 AM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Does God care how many butts are in the pews? I do not know if He cares about the number of butts in pews, but I do know that God cares about how many buts we apply to scripture....but maybe it's not, but perhaps it is, but if only, but I.
"Church" is mentioned numerous times in the bible, so many that I will not quote them here as it would take up pages. Surely it is important to God for Him to have mentioned it to us in a reinforcing & corrective manner so many times.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Does God care about marketing plans? I do know that God wants us to market for Him . We just refer to it as witnessing, so yes...then I believe He does care, VERY MUCH about that particular marketing plan. Problem is, a lot of churches market for self, not for God. Evidently you have seen this.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Duck are you a good person??? No. There is only One who is truly good & I constantly strive to be as He is.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Organized religion is usually led by man and if not led by sinful man then it will be knocked off track by sinful men and women. Yes, however if you are truly in the scripture, reading, seeking understanding, praying & applying it, then you will have read all those warnings God gave us against false religions, man made religions, religiosity, etc., particularly in I Corinthians and He clearly tells us how to deal with it. No where does He even remotely suggest that we sit back or walk away and passively allow sinful man to knock it off track.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Support yourself from Scripture Alone! AMEN! Just be sure to read it, seek knowledge of it & listen to God, not your head because scripture clearly makes mention of churches & how they are to be pure.
Agreed though, that there are more man made religions & churches than God ordained ones, but the bible clearly warns against this and tells us that there will be more and more toward the end.
Are you giving up?
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 12:23:05 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
1. What "draws" people to go to church first The Holy Spirit Not programs or people of like interests?
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to. The Holy Spirit Why do you suppose the Holy Spirit would not guide me to an all African American AME church, as well as a snowy white Lutheran church?Or are you saying the HS is in one, but not the other?
3. And what "keeps" them there. The Holy Spirit Not programs or people of like interests? God has a particular calling for each individual and each congregation. While we may choose based on doctrinal stances, friendships or programs; ultimately we are responsible to hear the Holy Spirit for ourselves to determine where we shoud be. One wise pastor told us (the board of a church I used to be part of) that we should know our calling as a congregation and have it so well focused that good solid believers with a different calling would not fit in there.
If you are a welder, why would you want to work at a donut bakery?
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 1:28:21 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
God has a particular calling for each individual and each congregation. While we may choose based on doctrinal stances, friendships or programs; ultimately we are responsible to hear the Holy Spirit for ourselves to determine where we shoud be. One wise pastor told us (the board of a church I used to be part of) that we should know our calling as a congregation and have it so well focused that good solid believers with a different calling would not fit in there. That sounds alot better than the priest I heard say, "Church is like dinnerware. Some people prefer to eat off of china, while another may like paper plates. As long as we are eating of the same meal, it should not matter". This is not a good metaphor. It is obvious to me now that he was justifying his taste for the elaborate & costly crystal & china while other people were starving. It is also saying that "any" doctrine is all right as long as it worships God, but I believe that the old saying that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" holds true.
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
If you are a welder, why would you want to work at a donut bakery? Good point, but I do sometimes visit the donut bakery and really enjoy it!
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 3:04:14 PM
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rolling
Posts: 159
Joined: 11/14/2008
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The purpose of 'church' is 'to edify one another'. But in the modern 'church' this is impossible while staring at the back of somebody's head for an hour.
The word 'church' is not in the N.T. except for one place in the book of Acts where it is describing pagan temples. Church defined as 'a building set apart for public worship' is a misnomer. Ekklesia is the greek denoting 'called out ones' or those people who are called by God.
So the main purpose of our gathering in the first place has been lost long ago in about the 1700's.
This would explain clearly why we, as the body, have no effect on the world around us.....like we should.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 3:17:04 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 1434
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
Status: offline
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quote:
The purpose of 'church' is 'to edify one another'. But in the modern 'church' this is impossible while staring at the back of somebody's head for an hour.
if "staring at the back of somebody's head for an hour" is the ONLY thing you're doing in church....either you need to work harder to "edify one another"...or, find another church that will allow that to happen....
In my "modern church", "edifying one another", as well as many other things (spreading the gospel, teaching/discipleship, etc..etc..), are all done quite well. (not to "toot my own church's horn" or anything....)
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Erin, Emilie and Elise
Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 5:01:53 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
The purpose of 'church' is 'to edify one another'. But in the modern 'church' this is impossible while staring at the back of somebody's head for an hour. So just how were they seated in the ancient temples? Stadium seating, perhaps?
quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
The word 'church' is not in the N.T. except for one place in the book of Acts where it is describing pagan temples. Church defined as 'a building set apart for public worship' is a misnomer. It is clear in the bible that the Church is the Body of Christ. Some choose to do so corporately as well as individually. Are we living & acting out a misnomer by claiming to belong to the Body corporately?
quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
Ekklesia is the greek denoting 'called out ones' or those people who are called by God.
So the main purpose of our gathering in the first place has been lost long ago in about the 1700's. Are you suggesting that God no longer calls us out?
quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
This would explain clearly why we, as the body, have no effect on the world around us.....like we should. If I thought that God has not called me out & that I have no effect, then why on earth would I spend my time futiley? I feel that should I leave this place having inspired only one single life to seek God, then I will have been most effective. If one more member of this Body does the same, we will have been TWICE as effective, and on and on, so confirms the purpose of the Church.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 5:40:49 PM
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floydette
Posts: 1087
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Duck -
Could you clarify what you mean by "called out"? thx
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 5:46:23 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 228
Joined: 9/16/2008
From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Duck -
Could you clarify what you mean by "called out"? thx
I refer to rolling's definition:
quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
Ekklesia is the greek denoting 'called out ones' or those people who are called by God.
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 6:46:49 PM
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draexo
Posts: 342
Joined: 1/26/2007
From: Saratoga County, New York
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DuckTalk
For years, I have wondered about this three-fold question I pose;
1. What "draws" people to go to church first
2. Then what directs them to "which" church they choose to go to.
3. And what "keeps" them there.
Please, open for all to answer.
I am drawn to a church that follows the Bible, the Word.
What keeps me there is that they continue to follow the Word.
What directs me there is the Spirit.
Those are my personal answers.
_____________________________
The truth will set you free!
TRUTH
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RE: WHY CHURCH? - 11/14/2008 8:35:53 PM
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rolling
Posts: 159
Joined: 11/14/2008
Status: offline
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Strongs concordance. ekklesia: called out. As the children of Israel were called out of Egypt so we are called out of this present world system.
Most churches do not operate according to 1Cor.12 where all the body parts operated in their functions.
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