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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 1:56:22 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1533
Joined: 5/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
The sarcastic and sardonic usage of the word "Messiah" by some Conservative Christian Crosswalkers to refer to a politician whom they dislike, did not vote for, did not want to see victorious on Nov. 4th, and are now lamenting over as their next president is extremely ironic considering that it's generally such people who fight and talk loudest about defending the Christian faith and its sacret tenets from liberalism and secularism.
I thought the Bible taught there was only one Messiah; He has come, succeeded, and He shall come again - and He would not come in the form of a US president (at least, according to Scripture, and the Bible doesn't disappoint when it comes to the accuracy of its prophecies).
I have explained this so many times. You and IMA need to get over it. Messiah is a word. It isn't a magical title or some mysterious secret code. It means anointed or chosen one. It isn't THE name of Jesus, it is A descriptor of Jesus. By your illogical reasoning, we can't ever call a person rabbi, or teacher, or lord, or master, or sensei, or shepherd, or son, or baby, or any dozens of other words that can be used to describe a function fulfilled by Christ. Oh, I guess we'd better stop calling gates "gates" and doors "doors" and vines "vines" too because that might offend Jesus.   I wish there was a better eyeroll emoticon.
You are being purposely obtuse and looking for an argument where there needn't be one.
Now, back to real issues, like Obama's disciples denying their new lord.
Did you hear how Obama was laughing with advisors on the campaign trail about how convincingly he sold a fake image to the public? I'll look up the Newsweek link if I get a chance.
There are many rabbis, teachers, lords, masters, senseis... and have been. But as Christians we know and believe what the Bible says, that there is only ONE Messiah.
ManimalX, as for being purposely obtuse: I will debate you one-on-one anytime anywhere on these issues. You spoke about "conditions on the ground" re: Iraq and I refuted you. If what I write annoys you that much, why don't we have a discussion without the name-calling?
The "gates" and "doors" reference was, by the way, one of the most vacuous and bizarre statements I've seen on these forums. I have nothing else to say regarding that.
_____________________________
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 2:06:27 PM
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ReadingSports
Posts: 70
Joined: 7/18/2008
From: USA
Status: offline
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quote:
You may never admit it, but Bush polarized our country and his actions embittered many Americans.
No, I disagree, in their narcissistic, selfish quest for power the liberals demonized PRESIDENT Bush, polarized our country, and their lies deceived many Americans.
To a liberal, being bipartisan means agreeing with them. Sure let's have debate, but the way the liberals have acted toward President Bush has been nothing but disgusting. But you may never agree to that either.
Unless you're really going to say that we should have left this in power:
http://www.state.gov/g/wi/rls/18877.htm
Not to mention the evil and corrupt "oil for food" sponsored by none other than the UN, Saddam's sponsorship of terror generally and Al Qaeda specifically. (Yea, whatever, go read the report on "Iraqi perspectives project: Saddam and Terror." Before you repeat the mantra that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11.
quote:
"We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda" - G.W. Bush lies to America and to the world, 5/1/2003
But you'll never admit that either.
Just as they demonize everyone that opposes them, from Reagan to Palin to some plumber that has the nerve to ask a question.
< Message edited by ReadingSports -- 11/8/2008 2:12:47 PM >
_____________________________
Micah 6:8
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 2:13:08 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
The sarcastic and sardonic usage of the word "Messiah" by some Conservative Christian Crosswalkers to refer to a politician whom they dislike, did not vote for, did not want to see victorious on Nov. 4th, and are now lamenting over as their next president is extremely ironic considering that it's generally such people who fight and talk loudest about defending the Christian faith and its sacret tenets from liberalism and secularism.
I thought the Bible taught there was only one Messiah; He has come, succeeded, and He shall come again - and He would not come in the form of a US president (at least, according to Scripture, and the Bible doesn't disappoint when it comes to the accuracy of its prophecies).
I have explained this so many times. You and IMA need to get over it. Messiah is a word. It isn't a magical title or some mysterious secret code. It means anointed or chosen one. It isn't THE name of Jesus, it is A descriptor of Jesus. By your illogical reasoning, we can't ever call a person rabbi, or teacher, or lord, or master, or sensei, or shepherd, or son, or baby, or any dozens of other words that can be used to describe a function fulfilled by Christ. Oh, I guess we'd better stop calling gates "gates" and doors "doors" and vines "vines" too because that might offend Jesus. I wish there was a better eyeroll emoticon.
You are being purposely obtuse and looking for an argument where there needn't be one.
Now, back to real issues, like Obama's disciples denying their new lord.
Did you hear how Obama was laughing with advisors on the campaign trail about how convincingly he sold a fake image to the public? I'll look up the Newsweek link if I get a chance.
There are many rabbis, teachers, lords, masters, senseis... and have been. But as Christians we know and believe what the Bible says, that there is only ONE Messiah.
ManimalX, as for being purposely obtuse: I will debate you one-on-one anytime anywhere on these issues. You spoke about "conditions on the ground" re: Iraq and I refuted you. If what I write annoys you that much, why don't we have a discussion without the name-calling?
The "gates" and "doors" reference was, by the way, one of the most vacuous and bizarre statements I've seen on these forums. I have nothing else to say regarding that.
Let's try again: "messiah" is a word. It is used to describe a function or role, just like the other words I listed are just words that describe a function or role. Jesus is the capital 'M' Messiah, but that doesn't mean other people cannot be described as little 'm' messiahs if they fit that role. Jesus was a rabbi, and arguably THE Rabbi, bu that doesn't mean the title is now off limits to anyone else.
I know you are a very intelligent person Rich, so if you take a few moments to consider my "gate" and "door" references, you will realize my point: Jesus called Himself "the door" and "the gate" and "the vine". In the same way as that doesn't disqualify anything from ever being called "gates", "doors", or "vines", neither does the title "messiah" being applied to Jesus disqualify anyone else from ever having the title of "chosen one" or "appointed for a purpose". Does it click now?
As far as Iraq... I have a vague recollection of what you are talking about, but what that has to do with this discussion I don't know. If you are referring to an old thread, feel free to remind me. One of my many flaws is that I am completely absent-minded and don't always keep track of which threads I have contributed to. If the thread gets buried, sorry to say I often forget about it.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 2:27:46 PM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1271
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: online
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Boy, we are getting enough songs that we may have to put together an Obama hymnal. We could have will.i.am's songs in there, the kid's praise song, the alpha-omega chant... I should get that put together and sell it before someone else steals my idea! Of course, Obama would just tax it so high I wouldn't make a profit, so never mind.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 2:42:53 PM
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jbow
Posts: 629
Joined: 2/16/2007
From: Dixie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockominal
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
You tell me the last time people DANCED and chanted a president's name in the streets because he was elected president. Who does that?? Who?? There were no people crying and dancing in the streets when Bush Jr and Sr were elected, nor were they dancing when Clinton was elected
People who are excited do stuff that is emotional. Why is that so bad? Why do you have to make something ugly out of people just being happy and celebrating? Again, very unbecoming.
Don't try and whitewash it. The only thing "unbecoming" was that bizzare obama bash in Chicago. People crying while watching their hero rant:
" were gonna change America and change the world!.."
No matter how you spin it, CNN Cafferty Files and the like, it is beyond belief. People around the world cheering for their boy. Yep; progressive libs from around the world are ecstatic. Did the world "community" go into the same frenzy when Ban ki-Moon became Secretary-General of the U.N. ?
It's funny (not) but if Americans last century, not that long ago, could see this entire real life charade, they would say the world has already ended. I almost gave people some credence with their arguments against so-called "mega churches" , not that I really know why. This whole obamathon is just to ethereal. Over what? Over some guy whose entire claim to fame is Project Vote in Illinois.
It really is incredible. It hasn't really sunk in with me yet. I had myself convinced that America wouldn't really elect this guy. It is like a bad dream, I can't believe it's real. The comparisons you can make to other leaders in history who have created an "image" of themselves the way Obama has is truly scary. The whole 'cult of personality' is terrifying when you look at history and at others who have come to power in such a way.
I am not afraid nor am I worried but I am very concerned and truly amazed that we have elected a man that we really don't know much about and what we do know is more of an 'image' than reality.
There is another thread about all his internet followers. If you read between the lines you'll see that he intends to use them to intimidate others, like congress, who may stand in the way of his agenda. This is a new way... at least to America. A charismatic leader and a large band of fanitical followers... you might do well to be concerned too.
J
_____________________________
"These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 5:41:48 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
Posts: 906
Joined: 9/6/2007
Status: offline
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Wow that was fast. I was expecting more like 6 months to a year before the country learned of their grave error. Well not the people who want to sit on the couch and eat ho ho's while the rest of us work and pay for them thanks to Obama's spread the wealth around.
_____________________________
<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 5:58:01 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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Well, rich, you have the right to your opinion, but as others have said, just look around you. You can snicker, sneer, throw a fit all you want, have lists as long as your arm, but when I see websites calling him Messiah, news reports that claim folks are calling him messiah, hearing what the supporters are saying, well, if looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, then it's . . . a dog?? Say what you want, but don't turn on the news. You might be surprised.
Oh, and may I add, Yeap, God gave you Obama. Folks wanted a Messiah, so God gave him to you. You'd be surprised as to how many Christians got this from God before the elections. I mean, the Christ believing Christians.
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
Sorry, Rich, but I disagree. These people who support Obama TRULY think Obama is the Messiah.
And you know this to be categorically true; you can affirm, state, and attest without any doubt and with full veracity and complete validation that ALL those who support President-Elect Barack Hussein Obama believe him to be the Messiah.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
They worship him the way I worship Jesus. I have heard what they said about him and I've seen the news regarding him. In my city's yesterday's newspaper, there's an article in which people were out in the streets all over the US, crying, praying, dancing and chanted Obama, Obama because this guy became the president. You tell me the last time people DANCED and chanted a president's name in the streets because he was elected president. Who does that?? Who?? There were no people crying and dancing in the streets when Bush Jr and Sr were elected, nor were they dancing when Clinton was elected.
Faulty reasoning.
1. If my city's newspaper says that John McCain supporters consider him to be the reincarnation of Abraham Lincoln, should I believe it? 
2. Your logic says, "crowds cry/pray/dance/chant -----> worship." People chanted Bush's name in 2000 and in 2004. As for crying - it was CATHARSIS, the realization of their wish that the Bush administration finally end (and that it not be succeeded by McCain). You may never admit it, but Bush polarized our country and his actions embittered many Americans. To know that his days are finally numbered was a relief - and many of those who support Obama are people of color. Many of them are old enough to have been prohibited from sitting in certain sections of a bus. For them to see a man like Obama reach the highest office of the land was probably an acceptable reason for them to cry.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dancre
I don't say Messiah b/c I don't like him, I say Messiah b/c that's how these people see him. God gave YOU Obama b/c the people wanted a Messiah that didn't have holes in his hands and feet and wouldn't tell them what they could and couldn't do. (SEVERAL christians from all over the country receive that from God, most got this BEFORE the elections.) God said, FIne, here's your Messiah, enjoy him. I'm not lamenting over the election b/c he's my president, I'm lamenting over the fact that these people turn to Obama instead of Christ. I'm lamenting b/c God gave them what they wanted, a holeless Messiah. So yeah, I say Messiah b/c THEY say Messiah. If you don't believe that, then read the papers, watch the news.
I read several newspapers (online) daily, in more languages besides English, and I have to say I've yet to see any claims of Obama being called the Messiah. God gave me Obama? I would say God is in charge and He authorized Obama to become president just as He for whatever reasons "allowed" a man like Bush to become president.
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 6:15:40 PM
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gracen77
Posts: 66
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
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Lightshineon,
Re: BTW, we feel Christians would not have supported
this man, so as far as opinions on Christians, please do
not judge their behavior.
Protestants and other Christians make up
54% of the electorate. If many didn't support
Obama, no way would he have won. Over half?
It can't be attributed to Blacks, since they are
only about 11 to 12% of US population. Even
if ALL voted for Obama, not a guaranteed win.
_____________________________
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
How: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp1xBUFjEB0
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 6:17:21 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ReadingSports
quote:
Considering the Spirit walks before us
HHHMMM.... I always thought the Spirit was behind me... pushing me to do what he wants me to do.  He does that alot. Either that or he's saying, "You're going the wrong way." He does that a lot too. Not sure why. 
quote:
Isa 58:8-12 and Matthew 16:21-23
I don't disagree that Obama's phrasing was not to my liking, and I brought it up, but I'm not sure how those specific verses apply. I see better how the Isa reference applies, but the Matthew verse would seem to be specific to a specific situation.
Now obviously if Obama claimed to be the messiah, light-worker, healer of our souls or whatever, I would have specific theological problems with those statements. And I do. All those claims would be blasphemous, at best. At worst, well I like your desciption: satanic.
Greetings
quote:
I'm not sure how those specific verses apply.
I see better how the Isa reference applies,
but the Matthew verse would seem to be specific to a specific situation.
Matthew is the example being fulfilled... Isa is the spiritual principal behind what occurred in matt
Ask yourself these questions; and get back to me with the answer
What does the devil always try to remind us of?
And why does he do it?
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 6:32:32 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gracen77
quote:
Lightshineon,
Re: BTW, we feel Christians would not have supported
this man, so as far as opinions on Christians, please do
not judge their behavior.
Protestants and other Christians make up
54% of the electorate. If many didn't support
Obama, no way would he have won. Over half?
It can't be attributed to Blacks, since they are
only about 11 to 12% of US population. Even
if ALL voted for Obama, not a guaranteed win.
99% of Latinos consider themselves Roman Catholic… and who knows for sure just how many illegals toss the numbers, I am surprised there are no exit polls reflections of the larger turn out of new voters to reflect just how long they have lived in the USA.
Everything else but!
In John McCain’s State of Arizona ….will not allow any one to register to vote unless they can prove citizenship as opposed to his surrounding neighbor states who turned blue
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 6:56:49 PM
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gracen77
Posts: 66
Joined: 10/26/2008
Status: offline
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LoyalGypsy,
Re: In John McCain’s State of Arizona ….will not allow
any one to register to vote unless they can prove
citizenship as opposed to his surrounding neighbor
states who turned blue
Like I just said, even if McCain challenged the votes,
if he had legally received twice what he got in the
electoral votes, he still would not have won. Obama
won such a decisive victory.
_____________________________
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
How: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp1xBUFjEB0
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/8/2008 10:06:39 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 141
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gracen77
Lightshineon,
Re: BTW, we feel Christians would not have supported
this man, so as far as opinions on Christians, please do
not judge their behavior.
Protestants and other Christians make up
54% of the electorate. If many didn't support
Obama, no way would he have won. Over half?
It can't be attributed to Blacks, since they are
only about 11 to 12% of US population. Even
if ALL voted for Obama, not a guaranteed win.
You see, even Christians can be deceived. That is why we have been told to "test the spirits".
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 2:00:51 AM
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relady
Posts: 1212
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
BTW, we feel Christians would not have supported this man, so as far as opinions on Christians, please do not judge their behavior. Oh, but you have the right to judge us?? Puhlease. That road goes both ways. I'm a Christian and I supported him. so your "feeling" is flat wrong.
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 2:06:38 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5921
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
BTW, we feel Christians would not have supported this man, so as far as opinions on Christians, please do not judge their behavior. Oh, but you have the right to judge us?? Puhlease. That road goes both ways. I'm a Christian and I supported him. so your "feeling" is flat wrong.
So whatever A Christians supports that makes it ok?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 2:07:21 AM
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relady
Posts: 1212
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
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quote:
No, I disagree, in their narcissistic, selfish quest for power the liberals demonized PRESIDENT Bush, polarized our country, and their lies deceived many Americans. Oh dear, one of the few "true believers". Who's been deceived again? Bush will go down in history as one of the worst, if not THE worst President ever. I still can't believe we elected him TWICE! He can't be gone soon enough for me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt - he lied and manipulated us into an immoral, unnecessary war.
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 9:09:37 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3463
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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I like Bush btw, and I do not judge by mob rule. I will not judge you for Obama, though one day, we will all stand before the judgement seat of Christ, and give account. This is me pearsonally Relady, but, I would not want to give an account why I votes Obama, that is just me. He is a murderer, liar, and slick enoungh to fool everyone, so no comdenation but, if you think Bush fooled you, I would say you really have been duped supporting Obama
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
No, I disagree, in their narcissistic, selfish quest for power the liberals demonized PRESIDENT Bush, polarized our country, and their lies deceived many Americans. Oh dear, one of the few "true believers". Who's been deceived again? Bush will go down in history as one of the worst, if not THE worst President ever. I still can't believe we elected him TWICE! He can't be gone soon enough for me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt - he lied and manipulated us into an immoral, unnecessary war.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 9:27:53 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1936
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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Anyone who says that Bush divided the country hasn't been paying attention since 1966.
What has divided the country is that there are two groups of people that have very different visions for this country.
The latecomers are those that see socialism as their nirvana when it comes to a political system. They have been around since the late 1890's; but, really began to think they had a real chance to take over beginning with the McGovern candidacy. They have been FURIOUS ever since he lost.
While at first they wanted to take it to the streets (Dohrn, Ayers) they decided instead to take it to the colleges and became teachers of young people who became teachers of children. At last, they have reached the critical mass with their propaganda. But, since it has taken such a long time the rage they have felt in being out of power led them to team up with the likes of George Soros whose money became the fuel for spewing diabilical hatred... and open division.
They feel the government owns the people and has every right and the duty to run the lives of the people 'for their own good'. In reality they will enslave the people.
The other group, the ones who are hated by the 'progressives', 'socialists', 'communists' and 'Maoists' depending on the name for the day, believe in limited government under the Constitution and freedom from the tyranny of the government over the people who are the real owners of the government.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 9:30:51 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
I like Bush btw, and I do not judge by mob rule. I will not judge you for Obama, though one day, we will all stand before the judgement seat of Christ, and give account. This is me pearsonally Relady, but, I would not want to give an account why I votes Obama, that is just me. He is a murderer, liar, and slick enoungh to fool everyone, so no comdenation but, if you think Bush fooled you, I would say you really have been duped supporting Obama
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
No, I disagree, in their narcissistic, selfish quest for power the liberals demonized PRESIDENT Bush, polarized our country, and their lies deceived many Americans. Oh dear, one of the few "true believers". Who's been deceived again? Bush will go down in history as one of the worst, if not THE worst President ever. I still can't believe we elected him TWICE! He can't be gone soon enough for me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt - he lied and manipulated us into an immoral, unnecessary war.
Greetings,
quote:
I like Bush btw,
Bush is a seed planter, Obama once he gets into the house will find out very quickly that his hands are basically tied
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 10:03:07 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 628
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
Oh dear, one of the few "true believers". Who's been deceived again? Bush will go down in history as one of the worst, if not THE worst President ever. I still can't believe we elected him TWICE! He can't be gone soon enough for me. I gave him the benefit of the doubt - he lied and manipulated us into an immoral, unnecessary war.
YEah the worst president ever, stock market rose to record highs after the recovery from the 9/11 attacks, record low unemployment for a majority of the 8 years with those workers paying less taxes. Yeah worst president ever.
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RE: Obama disciples already rejecting messiah - 11/9/2008 1:01:20 PM
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