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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 4:18:41 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
It might be a stretch when I include Obama with American descendents of slavery but I include him because he is an African-American. In this manner I see all African people as victims of slavery, even though they did sell some of us into slavery.
You deciding to include Barrack with descendents of American slaves is quite a stretch. His family was not enslaved, he can trace his family tree back to Africa (where they still live today) since he did not have his history ripped from him as did many slaves who were brought here. His family did not suffer from slavery as they were never enslaved and the vast majority of them have never lived in the US so were not affected by the post slavery racism that was a part of America.
You see all African people as victims of slavery? Well you are completely and totally wrong. How do you consider the African who captures, transports, and profits from the sale of fellow Africans as a victim?
quote:
Forgive me for being over zealous. Thank you for your responses, and it was a good Bible study.
God Bless
- Winston
It is not that you are zealous it is that you are zealous based on false assumptions. Good Bible study should be based on truths contained in the Bible and not be concerned with using false assumptions to elevate an earthly cause.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 5:06:46 AM
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chaplainwinston
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quote:
I'm sorry you don't own up to American history with minorities. Yes things are much better but the damage is done. Look at our prisons, look at our schools and colleges, look at our Churches, look at the Indian reserverations with casinos.
Prison, schools, churches, and Indian reservations with casinos. Connection?
Since you do not know what I am talking about I won't discuss it futher. I will say that we are overcomers and we did it with the help of the Lord. Scripture says we are more than conquers in Christ Jesus.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 5:14:42 AM
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chaplainwinston
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quote:
see all African people as victims of slavery? Well you are completely and totally wrong. How do you consider the African who captures, transports, and profits from the sale of fellow Africans as a victim?
I don't. They were just as evil as other slave traders. The victims are those that were enslaved.
quote:
It is not that you are zealous it is that you are zealous based on false assumptions. Good Bible study should be based on truths contained in the Bible and not be concerned with using false assumptions to elevate an earthly cause.
It is not a false assumption comparing someone who claims to be a Christian to someone in the Bible. You are assuming like others responding to this thread that he is not. I say let God be the judge. If God be for you who can be against you.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 5:21:25 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 628
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
see all African people as victims of slavery? Well you are completely and totally wrong. How do you consider the African who captures, transports, and profits from the sale of fellow Africans as a victim?
I don't. They were just as evil as other slave traders. The victims are those that were enslaved.
quote:
It is not that you are zealous it is that you are zealous based on false assumptions. Good Bible study should be based on truths contained in the Bible and not be concerned with using false assumptions to elevate an earthly cause.
It is not a false assumption comparing someone who claims to be a Christian to someone in the Bible. You are assuming like others responding to this thread that he is not. I say let God be the judge. If God be for you who can be against you.
Nowhere did i mention anything about his Christian beliefs so you made another false assumption in thinking that i believe him to be a non Christian. The wrong assumption you made was that somehow Barrack's African family suffered from slavery when no such connection exists. You then proceeded to use that false assumption to partially base your theory of Barrack=Joseph on. So as i stated before Good Bible study is not based on false assumptions but rather on Biblical truths. If your Bible study leads you to elevate politicians then you need to reevaluate your method of Bible study, last i checked even a good politician is a well trained liar.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 6:02:42 AM
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chaplainwinston
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quote:
Nowhere did i mention anything about his Christian beliefs so you made another false assumption in thinking that i believe him to be a non Christian. The wrong assumption you made was that somehow Barrack's African family suffered from slavery when no such connection exists. You then proceeded to use that false assumption to partially base your theory of Barrack=Joseph on. So as i stated before Good Bible study is not based on false assumptions but rather on Biblical truths. If your Bible study leads you to elevate politicians then you need to reevaluate your method of Bible study, last i checked even a good politician is a well trained liar.
I am glad you beleive he is a Christian. Can I compare he to Biblical Characters. I already expressed the slavery aspect in the general since that he is Black, not a direct descendent. It was what Black people have accomplished the a first generation Black became President. He shares our burden.
For others who think he is not a Christian for what he says or believes read the following discussion between Jesus and Peter. Peter was still a child of God.
From Matthew
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matt 16:21-23 (KJV)
Quite a strong rebuke don't you think?
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 6:14:01 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
I am glad you beleive he is a Christian.
I never said that either, that is not for me to judge.
quote:
Can I compare he to Biblical Characters. I already expressed the slavery aspect in the general since that he is Black, not a direct descendent. It was what Black people have accomplished the a first generation Black became President. He shares our burden.
It still amazes me how white people are admonished for not being color blind but when it comes to a black president (actually half black) that is all people can talk about is how great it is to have a black president. Barrack Obama is about as far removed from the black community as any other politician. I would rejoice to hear blacks say that they are proud Obama got elected because he was the best man for the job, but sadly that is not the case. If Barracks blackness is so important to many, and it is, would he have been elected were he white? If he couldn't have gotten elected as a white man with his policies then he shouldn't have been elected at all.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 6:30:15 AM
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chaplainwinston
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quote:
It still amazes me how white people are admonished for not being color blind but when it comes to a black president (actually half black) that is all people can talk about is how great it is to have a black president. Barrack Obama is about as far removed from the black community as any other politician. I would rejoice to hear blacks say that they are proud Obama got elected because he was the best man for the job, but sadly that is not the case. If Barracks blackness is so important to many, and it is, would he have been elected were he white? If he couldn't have gotten elected as a white man with his policies then he shouldn't have been elected at all.
Come on now a great majority of Amricans feel he is the best man for the job even Blacks. He just happens to be Black which also makes it history making speaking well of America around the world. Even Mccain said he was against great odds. His politcal machine beat the Clintons! Many were White.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 6:39:01 AM
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_jjp_
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
Come on now a great majority of Amricans feel he is the best man for the job even Blacks. He just happens to be Black which also makes it history making speaking well of America around the world. Even Mccain said he was against great odds. His politcal machine beat the Clintons! Many were White.
not a great majority of Americans, a slight majority elected him. How many of those voted for him simply because he was the democrat on the ticket, how many more voted for him because he was black? Yes it is a history making event, that doesn't mean it was the best thing for our country. I still have yet to see any qualifications that he has to show he can be a leader. You have to remember that a good many Americans vote straight party line and a great many more vote without the slightest clue as to a candidates qualifications. The great ones are when they went out in the streets and asked Obama supporters if they thought him choosing Palin as a running mate was a good idea and they said yes because they are that out of touch that they didn't even know that Palin was McCains running mate not Obamas.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 7:56:59 AM
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macokjc
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quote:
I'm sorry you don't own up to American history with minorities. Yes things are much better but the damage is done. Look at our prisons, look at our schools and colleges, look at our Churches, look at the Indian reserverations with casinos.
Those are all a result of bad, bad choices. Not a result of the color of one's skin.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 8:10:48 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
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quote:
For others who think he is not a Christian for what he says or believes read the following discussion between Jesus and Peter. Peter was still a child of God.
From Matthew
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matt 16:21-23 (KJV)
Black Liberation Theology is the "faith" Obama believes in. That means what Jesus did and how Jesus acted is of little value to Obama because "his faith" teaches him that to be a Christain does NOT MEAN one is to be a follower of Christ in the way he acted or what he was teachings. Jesus' actions and teachings were for "his praticular" time in history. Obama's in a new generation so the actions and teachings will be what the black community as a group decides is right.
quote:
Can I compare he to Biblical Characters. I already expressed the slavery aspect in the general since that he is Black, not a direct descendent. It was what Black people have accomplished the a first generation Black became President. He shares our burden.
Let's use BLT termonology. Because he is black he shares their "salvation". You do understand how the term "slavation" in BLT is defined don't you? Salvation in Black Liberation Theology deals with the financial, educational and political elevation of the black community....that is their understanding of the term "salvation"
quote:
If God be for you who can be against you.
Let's see what the Black Liberation Theology group teach about this.
The black theologian must reject any conception of God which stifles black self-determination by picturing God as a God of all peoples. Either God is identified with the oppressed to the point that their experience becomes God's experience, or God is a God of racism.... The blackness of God means that God has made the oppressed condition God's own condition. This is the essence of the Biblical revelation. By electing Israelite slaves as the people of God and by becoming the Oppressed One in Jesus Christ, the human race is made to understand that God is known where human beings experience humiliation and suffering...Liberation is not an afterthought, but the very essence of divine activity. (A Black Theology of Liberation, pp. 63-64)
< Message edited by P31W -- 11/12/2008 8:19:41 AM >
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 8:28:23 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3164
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From: my mom by God
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Obama may be more akin to Ahab.
Moses' Pharoh.
Herrod
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 9:01:15 AM
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EStan
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well, as the tree said to the lumberjack, I'm stumped. I don't think there's any convincing our friendly Chaplain here that President-Elect Obama has no real claim to the slavery of Africans and their descendants in the U.S.
_____________________________
Eternal Father, grant that through the tears of repentance I may see more clearly the brightness and glories of the saving cross.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 11:42:58 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3467
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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When we throw out any "real" biblical principles,
we can "claim" anything we want.
That's what BTL and other sects do.
Jesus said, "When I return will I find any faithfulness."
The answer is a big "probably not."
He will find a lot of religion, but faithfulness to His Word, perhaps not that much.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 12:46:37 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
I am glad you beleive he is a Christian.
Obama is not a Christian....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 1:11:59 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2495
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
Nowhere did i mention anything about his Christian beliefs so you made another false assumption in thinking that i believe him to be a non Christian. The wrong assumption you made was that somehow Barrack's African family suffered from slavery when no such connection exists. You then proceeded to use that false assumption to partially base your theory of Barrack=Joseph on. So as i stated before Good Bible study is not based on false assumptions but rather on Biblical truths. If your Bible study leads you to elevate politicians then you need to reevaluate your method of Bible study, last i checked even a good politician is a well trained liar.
I am glad you believe he is a Christian. Can I compare he to Biblical Characters. I already expressed the slavery aspect in the general since that he is Black, not a direct descendent. It was what Black people have accomplished the a first generation Black became President. He shares our burden.
For others who think he is not a Christian for what he says or believes read the following discussion between Jesus and Peter. Peter was still a child of God.
From Matthew
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matt 16:21-23 (KJV)
Quite a strong rebuke don't you think?
No it’s not a rebuke, what that passage is showing is that "Jesus"... who had not yet died… will become our rear guard.
The example of Jesus saying… “Get thee behind me Satan:
Is prophesied here in Isa 52:12
For you shall not go out with haste, Nor go by flight; For the Lord will go before you, And the God of Israel will be your rear guard
For the Lord will go before you , >> that is what Satan’s suggestion to Peter was trying to stop Jesus from doing…which was to go to the cross, = go before you.
And the picture of Jesus covering Peters back… is a picture of Jesus blocking Satan from putting those kinds of thoughts or suggestions in Peters mind… in which Peter spoke...
The rear guard is Actually a fulfillment of in the Saints of God… not the messiah of the worlds economy…
Mt 22:21 - Show Context
They said to Him, "Caesar's."
And He said to them, "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
As we see in that passage Jesus spoke very quickly rebuking Satan and that is spoken of here
ISA 58:8
Then your light shall break forth like the morning, Your healing shall spring forth speedily, And your righteousness shall go before you; The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard.
….Then your light shall break forth like the morning, = the temptation was squashed
…….Your healing shall spring forth speedily, = the temptation did not linger
………The glory of the Lord shall be your rear guard = and it wont come back.
What that means Chaplin is when we get a temptation, like the kind that Peter received from Satan in Matt ….when Jesus said to Satan Get thee behind me Satan:
That fulfillment is in a Saint of God and was documented between Peter and Jesus whereby Peter (or Satan in Pater) was suggesting otherwise that the Lord should go not go to the cross...
So because He did go to the cross….what that means is; when now can call on the name of Jesus ...it squashes that temptation.. (Suggestions!)
But in the radical so called church (worldly) church… such as the Islamic Farrakhan and rev Wright,
They twist and they preach the Bible...and here is a rough example of what to look out for..
They would take a scripture and preach for example Isa 58:8 ..in which there is a promise of the Lord to be our rear guard = (from our past convictions)>> and preaches it in represent of the "little god" of the world = or Lucifer...”the son of the morning”… and because of that “likeness” in the words… actually does the opposite
……Isa 58:8= Then your light shall break forth like the morning (star) " ....therefore when used in that context it is not speaking of Jesus Christ...it is speaking of Satan which brings forth not salvation from our past but brings forth… “Condemnation.”
... And in their eyes…
Satan or condemnation is the "righteous wind" ...at their backs? 
Therefore this is what we get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zu3Ptl6nYE
NOTE: And The only Satan mentioned in this video are Christians… the uprooting of the underlying corruptness of this government… is our Christian Nation
John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me .
2Co 11:14 - Show Context
And no wonder! For Satan himself "transforms " himself ....into an angel of light.
Personally I find it amusing that so many folks in those types on congregations’ think they are speaking of Jesus Christ 
quote:
For others who think he is not a Christian for what he says or believes read the following discussion between Jesus and Peter. Peter was still a child of God.
Not exactly, Peter was not yet saved… and all we can do is to wait and see where Obama is heading… to be able to know him by his fruit.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 1:29:45 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8015
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
quote:
May be it was the interview I saw where he confessed that he was serious about his moselm faith? Or maybe it was all the interaction throuigh his formaticve years up to today with moslems as his most intimate advisors/sponsors. Or maybe it's that everytime he claims to be Christian I hear him supporting all those things Christ hates like abortion and homosexuality but he never supports thsoe things that Christ loves, like Israel. He has no fruit of being a Christian in his life.
Is that interview on Utube? I'd like to see it. He denies being a Muslim.
Obama saying he's a moslem
Watch his lips and listen to his interviewer correct him. You may need to save the link target in order to get it to play
Found this reference to it also:
"On September 7, 2008, The Washington Times
posted a verbal slip that was made on "This Week" with George Stephanapoulos.
Obama, on talking about his religion said, "My Muslim faith". When questioned, he said
"he make a mistake". Some mistake! "
As to him denying it, he's a moslem, they are commanded to lie if they can gain advantage from it. He's also a democrat, they are widely known to be liars.
< Message edited by John_O -- 11/12/2008 1:51:44 PM >
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 1:54:51 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8015
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
For others who think he is not a Christian for what he says or believes read the following discussion between Jesus and Peter. Peter was still a child of God.
From Matthew
21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Matt 16:21-23 (KJV)
Quite a strong rebuke don't you think?
Why do most of the scriptures you present have nothing whatsoever to do with what you are trying to make them say?
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 3:56:22 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1749
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
Come on now a great majority of Amricans feel he is the best man for the job even Blacks. He just happens to be Black which also makes it history making speaking well of America around the world. Even Mccain said he was against great odds. His politcal machine beat the Clintons! Many were White.
This is the only post of yours I've responded to ChaplainWinston. I think that this is what you're getting at through the whole thing. This is about race, isn't it? Is this something taught out of the doctrine of black liberation theology?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 4:31:02 PM
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chaplainwinston
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quote:
Let's use BLT termonology. Because he is black he shares their "salvation". You do understand how the term "slavation" in BLT is defined don't you? Salvation in Black Liberation Theology deals with the financial, educational and political elevation of the black community....that is their understanding of the term "salvation"
Black liberation theology
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This theology maintains that African Americans must be liberated from multiple forms of bondage — social, political, economic and religious. This formulation views Christian theology as a theology of liberation -- "a rational study of the being of God in the world in light of the existential situation of an oppressed community, relating the forces of liberation to the essence of the gospel, which is Jesus Christ," writes James Hal Cone.
[Edited by moderator - copyright]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 11/12/2008 7:05:00 PM >
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 5:31:09 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 1041
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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Here are some facts that this "chaplain" seems to over look.
First, Obama could not possibly be descended from the two children of Joseph. The sons of Joseph are Ephraim and Manasseh. The descendents of these two men became the tribes of the same name. And LEFT EGYPT during the exodus.
Second, Egyptians during the time of Joseph were NOT BLACK. Egyptians are more akin to arabs than they are true africans. Archeological evidence proves this in that the Egyptian depictions of themselves always have them with dark brown skin, in stark contrast to the Cushites to the south (Modern Day Kenya).
Third, a little recognized fact is that the people SELLING the slaves to the white europeans were RIVAL tribes in Africa. The fact that Pres-Elect Obama's father is FROM Kenya, shows that if anything, his ancestors SOLD their neighbors into slavery. Though it is more than likely that PE Obamas ancestors never were apart of the slave trades as if they always were Kenyans, they were some several hundred miles from where the majority of the slavers obtained their slaves. The majority of slaves came from what is today Niger, Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Camroon ect. Kenya is VERY far from those areas. Infact it is on the OTHER SIDE of the continent.
Fourth. No Jesus was not white. But he was also NOT BLACK! He was a Jew, from Palestine. He would have had a light brown/brown skin. He would have looked like a modern day Arab rather than a white man OR black man.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 5:48:06 PM
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NoShow
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quote:
ORIGINAL: chaplainwinston
Come on now a great majority of Amricans feel he is the best man for the job
No, a great majority of Americans feel he is, a better man than McCain, for the job.
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RE: Is Obama a type of Joseph - 11/12/2008 6:14:40 PM
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chaplainwinston
Posts: 83
Joined: 7/31/2006
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"Christian Revolution in Latin America:
The Changing Face of Liberation Theology"
Part One in a Three-Part Series
on Liberation Theology
by Ron Rhodes
Strictly speaking, liberation theology should be understood as a family of theologies - including the Latin American, Black, and feminist varieties. All three respond to some form of oppression: Latin American liberation theologians say their poverty-stricken people have been oppressed and exploited by rich, capitalist nations. Black liberation theologians argue that their people have suffered oppression at the hands of racist whites. Feminist liberation theologians lay heavy emphasis upon the status and liberation of women in a male-dominated society.
[Edited by moderator - copyright]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 11/12/2008 7:05:40 PM >
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