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RE: Spousal Abuse - 11/15/2008 7:23:38 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 2060
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
I don't agree that she 'provoked' him to anger. I see that she got sassy back, but if anyone provoked it was him. Nasty name calling came first....and wasn't her. That was him - and she came second.
That part I don't agree with.
I don't see "provocation" and, even if there was, it wouldn't change anything that's going on. This scene wasn't set up in one argument, though and this sounds like a complicated mess of two people who are both working to escalate the situation (not just that argument); what's going in much bigger than that one event, it always is. We can talk about what he did, and I think she's got to see the gravity of that (they both do) but there's a lot more to it that we can't really begin to deal with here. As someone else said, there needs to be a third party brought in - IRL.
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RE: Spousal Abuse - 11/15/2008 7:59:20 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2596
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
I don't see "provocation" and, even if there was, it wouldn't change anything that's going on. This scene wasn't set up in one argument, though and this sounds like a complicated mess of two people who are both working to escalate the situation (not just that argument); what's going in much bigger than that one event, it always is. We can talk about what he did, and I think she's got to see the gravity of that (they both do) but there's a lot more to it that we can't really begin to deal with here. As someone else said, there needs to be a third party brought in - IRL
I agree. It is very easy to focus on the *one* incident where one person lost control. That is very, very bad. It has to be dealt with. If it happens again she should call the police and press charges and get a restraining order.
But as has been said here many times before (though usually applied to men, hmm...  ) verbal abuse is just as bad, and if both people have been escalating and sparring verbally, the OP needs to deal with her faults even if she has to leave her husband because he continues to abuse, or she will never have a healthy marriage even with a better man. Vengefulness and deliberately trying to give injury for injury (even if it is "only" verbal) is not healthy and it doesn't work anyway, obviously.
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Shameless Self Promotion
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RE: Spousal Abuse - 11/15/2008 8:26:39 AM
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floydette
Posts: 1087
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quote:
ORIGINAL: seagullplayer
If you continue to be “between” Churches, you may soon find yourself “between” marriages…
Go see the movie Fireproof, now.
Being between churches (or not attending a church) does not equate to divorce.
4agape -
I would agree with hnt - it is not an issue of provocation. A person is responsible for their actions regardless. He made the choice to do what he did. Although it was most likely a subconscious reactions instead of anything that he actually thought about and acted out. Counseling for both of you (for different reasons) would most likely be quite helpful.
I wish I could tell you that this is a one time incident - but it usually is only the beginning. I agree with so many when they have encouraged you to get assistance with this now.
< Message edited by floydette -- 11/15/2008 8:32:54 AM >
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
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RE: Spousal Abuse - 11/15/2008 9:59:11 AM
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Sideways
Posts: 3934
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
But as has been said here many times before (though usually applied to men, hmm... ) verbal abuse is just as bad, and if both people have been escalating and sparring verbally, the OP needs to deal with her faults even if she has to leave her husband because he continues to abuse, or she will never have a healthy marriage even with a better man. Vengefulness and deliberately trying to give injury for injury (even if it is "only" verbal) is not healthy and it doesn't work anyway, obviously.
I mostly agree with Maggie's advice, although do not see where accusations of verbal abuse are unfairly leveled at men. Women here at CW are often attacked for not respecting their husbands enough, not submitting enough, etc. They are just as often called to the carpet for how they verbally treat their husbands.
But still, 3capp is dead on that even if she must leave her husband to protect herself, it is always worthwhile to examine yourself to see how you can improve and clean up your own act.
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This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Spousal Abuse - 11/15/2008 2:21:59 PM
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hnt
Posts: 539
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
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I don't see the accusations unfairly leveled at men either. I have seen the claim thrown out alot, and I guess they are welcome to their opinion.
At times separation is a tool that can be used for both parties to be able to clear their heads, and see the seriousness of what is happening. I don't agree with women laying their hands on men either. That is dangerous territory, and a cooling off period for starters is needed.
The provoking comment I was mentioning was stated on the first page, and she was accused of provoking him to anger. It wasn't csl7037 - it was the post that was highlighed with csl's response. I was mentioning I don't agree with that part. When people start to rage they lose their heads, and you could be silent, walk away, and 'just not fight' and they can still feel provoked to lash out as he did.
His letter really scared me, and that is why I was thinking of separation. He is justifying himself, and if he can do that he may lay hands on her again. I think we have all seen this in life. If you talked yourself into being justified you don't have such a hard time doing it again.
< Message edited by hnt -- 11/15/2008 3:54:06 PM >
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Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: Spousal Abuse - 11/15/2008 3:24:15 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 628
Joined: 7/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't see the accusations unfairly leveled at men either.
Neither have I. The pendulum swings both ways here depending on the situation and who posts in response to it. But it doesn't consistently go to just one side.
My husband and I used to get into arguments that would escalate and would sometimes turn physical. He never started just outright beating me though. BUT since I'm not a professional who is going to be closely following the op's situation I would tend to advise her to be extremely cautious in dealing with this man. He has shown that he will become physically abusive in an argument which is more imminently dangerous than verbal abuse (i.e. physical abuse can become deadly, kwim?).
This man is in serious sin on many levels. If he is a typical abuser then the op changing her ways won't change him and it will just put her in danger if she stays in the situation. There is no way that any of us here can determine for sure whether this was a one time incident or if he is going to continue escallating his behavior. So the best option for the op is to seek professional counseling (meaning if it's Christian or pastoral it still needs to be professional). In a situation where there is physical violence the potential consequences of advising a person the wrong way are so great that it's best to be EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS in what we say. It's best to err on the side of caution.
His letter really, really concerns me because it's shows spiritual abuse (twisting scriptures around to try and manipulate someone) and a complete lack of repentance. That's scary.
I'm worried about the op and hope she's ok. Hopefully she'll come back and let us know how she's doing....
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RE: Spousal Abuse - 11/18/2008 12:42:44 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3037
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
I don't see "provocation" and, even if there was, it wouldn't change anything that's going on. This scene wasn't set up in one argument, though and this sounds like a complicated mess of two people who are both working to escalate the situation (not just that argument); what's going in much bigger than that one event, it always is. We can talk about what he did, and I think she's got to see the gravity of that (they both do) but there's a lot more to it that we can't really begin to deal with here. As someone else said, there needs to be a third party brought in - IRL
I agree. It is very easy to focus on the *one* incident where one person lost control. That is very, very bad. It has to be dealt with. If it happens again she should call the police and press charges and get a restraining order.
But as has been said here many times before (though usually applied to men, hmm... ) verbal abuse is just as bad, and if both people have been escalating and sparring verbally, the OP needs to deal with her faults even if she has to leave her husband because he continues to abuse, or she will never have a healthy marriage even with a better man. Vengefulness and deliberately trying to give injury for injury (even if it is "only" verbal) is not healthy and it doesn't work anyway, obviously.
Amen and Amen!!! 
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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