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romans 7 - 11/13/2008 6:27:38 PM
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twincities
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Hello,
I wanted to start a discussion on Romans chapter 7. Now I know that we will need to look at other chapters too but start here about out internal struggle with sin. For me at times i feel I am stuck in this chapter, meaning certian sins still plague me that I have struggled since I have known the Lord. thoughts and discussion please..
Romans 7 (NLT)
1 Now, dear brothers and sisters*—you who are familiar with the law—don’t you know that the law applies only while a person is living? 2 For example, when a woman marries, the law binds her to her husband as long as he is alive. But if he dies, the laws of marriage no longer apply to her. 3 So while her husband is alive, she would be committing adultery if she married another man. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law and does not commit adultery when she remarries.
4 So, my dear brothers and sisters, this is the point: You died to the power of the law when you died with Christ. And now you are united with the one who was raised from the dead. As a result, we can produce a harvest of good deeds for God. 5 When we were controlled by our old nature,* sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death. 6 But now we have been released from the law, for we died to it and are no longer captive to its power. Now we can serve God, not in the old way of obeying the letter of the law, but in the new way of living in the Spirit.
God’s Law Reveals Our Sin
7 Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”* 8 But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. 9 At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, 10 and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. 11 Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. 12 But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good.
13 But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes.
Struggling with Sin
14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. 15 I don’t really understand myself, for I want to do what is right, but I don’t do it. Instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I know that what I am doing is wrong, this shows that I agree that the law is good. 17 So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
18 And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.* I want to do what is right, but I can’t. 19 I want to do what is good, but I don’t. I don’t want to do what is wrong, but I do it anyway. 20 But if I do what I don’t want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it.
21 I have discovered this principle of life—that when I want to do what is right, I inevitably do what is wrong. 22 I love God’s law with all my heart. 23 But there is another power* within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that is still within me. 24 Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death? 25 Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.
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RE: romans 7 - 11/13/2008 9:08:34 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3055
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quote:
For me at times i feel I am stuck in this chapter, meaning certian sins still plague me that I have struggled since I have known the Lord. thoughts and discussion please.. Why are you stuck in Romans 7, twincities, when God clearly gives His Answer to struggling with sin in verse 25? Walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh (Rom 8:1-2) and this will be one of the shortest discussion threads ever!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: romans 7 - 11/13/2008 10:34:39 PM
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rofaith
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From: rofaith, a believer
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Indeed... in my heart, I consider Romans 7 a description of the struggle with sin that the Apostle Paul had in his experience. The Holy Spirit had him write it to the church in Rome, indeed to all of us to show us the heart of God towards us in that in His word we see his grace and mercy and amazingly, understanding of our predicament with sin and how it will dog us the rest of our life.
The solution is as drmark said, V25, which really goes hand in hand with the entirety of Chapter 8 which in my opinion is the capstone of Christianity.
Chapter 7 describes the struggle, the facts of our human sinful makeup in that the flesh seems to still be present and the power of sin is always(Chapter 6) there to facilitate temptation. While at the same time, the Holy Spirit indwells our body giving us knowledge of mercy, grace and hope for the now and the future.... Wow on that.
Thanks be to God, though with the flesh I am a slave to sin, but, through Jesus Christ I am free indeed. It's all because of the cross that atoned and removed sin from my record yesterday, today and forever, and the power of living in the Spirit by faith, in that I am reminded everyday of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and the mercy and grace of God towards me. Without it, I am a dead man walking. With it I have hope through faith and I am empowered to love others. Wow on that from a selfish self centered dude like me....
God is amazing !
_____________________________
There is no other name....
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 9:56:55 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
For me at times i feel I am stuck in this chapter, meaning certian sins still plague me that I have struggled since I have known the Lord. thoughts and discussion please.. Why are you stuck in Romans 7, twincities, when God clearly gives His Answer to struggling with sin in verse 25? Walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh (Rom 8:1-2) and this will be one of the shortest discussion threads ever!
Absolutely drmark.
So many folks try to use Romans 7 as an excuse to sin, when Paul is using it to show that Christ came to deliver us from that sinful dominance. He plainly shows that without Christ and walking after the Spirit sin is dominate in ones life; but with Christ and walking after the Spirit we can be delivered from sin.
Thank you Jesus.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 12:35:05 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
For me at times i feel I am stuck in this chapter, meaning certian sins still plague me that I have struggled since I have known the Lord. thoughts and discussion please.. Why are you stuck in Romans 7, twincities, when God clearly gives His Answer to struggling with sin in verse 25? Walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh (Rom 8:1-2) and this will be one of the shortest discussion threads ever!
It's just that simple? I guess we can just read this once, take it out of our loose leaf bible and put it with all those other books that some believe we no longer need. Unfortunately, us poor souls who are not walking around with a glow that fends off all temptation have yet to reach perfection. I hope you don't mind if we continue the discussion on how we struggle, since you appear to no longer have any problems.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 2:18:07 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
It's just that simple? I guess we can just read this once, take it out of our loose leaf bible and put it with all those other books that some believe we no longer need. Unfortunately, us poor souls who are not walking around with a glow that fends off all temptation have yet to reach perfection. I hope you don't mind if we continue the discussion on how we struggle, since you appear to no longer have any problems.
Yes, Bluethread it is just that simple.
Simply believe the Word of God and God's promises and live a live ont dominated by sin, but unto service to God.
(Rom 6:12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
(Rom 6:13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
(Rom 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(Rom 6:15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
and
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Bluethread, I would challenge you to post a (just one) Scripture where the New Testament says we are to walk in sin and it is OK (or even sin once and it is OK), or where Scripture promotes living in sin at all?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 4:17:03 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Bluethread, I would challenge you to post a (just one) Scripture where the New Testament says we are to walk in sin and it is OK (or even sin once and it is OK), or where Scripture promotes living in sin at all?
Thanks
RC
Of course we are not to "walk in sin". However, Isaiah tells us, (Isa 64:6) "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away."
Also, as Paul tells us, Eph 6:11 "Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
If it is simple to resist temptation, then why do we need armor. Yes, Adonai's ways are not too hard for us, but that does not mean it is not a struggle.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 7:40:28 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Bluethread, I would challenge you to post a (just one) Scripture where the New Testament says we are to walk in sin and it is OK (or even sin once and it is OK), or where Scripture promotes living in sin at all?
Thanks
RC
Of course we are not to "walk in sin". However, Isaiah tells us, (Isa 64:6) "All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away."
Also, as Paul tells us, Eph 6:11 "Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."
If it is simple to resist temptation, then why do we need armor. Yes, Adonai's ways are not too hard for us, but that does not mean it is not a struggle.
So you cannot find a verse where God instructs us to sin or Oks sin?
Isa. was before the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and the forgiveness and cleansing brought by the sacrifice of Christ. And before the wonderful promises that God makes to us in the New Testament. Remeber that Isaiah was under the law that no man could keep.
The "Armor" is simply what every believer should have; salvation, righteousness, peace with God, the Word of God and Faith is God and that His Word is true.
It is simple; that is why most folks miss the thruth of it.
(1Co 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
(1Co 1:19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
(1Co 1:20) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
(1Co 1:21) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Man's wisdom says that all men must sin; God's truth says that Believers have a choise to sin or not to sin. So I say choose not to sin and live the life called us to live by walking after the Spirit.
(1Co 10:13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
The Apostle John says;
(1Jn 3:8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
(1Jn 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1Jn 3:10) In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Jesus said; [b](Joh 5:14) Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
and
(Joh 8:11) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
and
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
And Paul in Romans chapter 7 when read in context with chapter 5,6, and 8 tell us that as Believers we are not to sin because of the sacrifice of Christ and the ministry of the Holy Spirit; I think Paul puts it really simple here in Romans 6
(Rom 6:11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(Rom 6:12) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
(Rom 6:13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
(Rom 6:14) For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(Rom 6:15) What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
I simply say thank you Jesus.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 8:58:09 PM
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rofaith
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From: rofaith, a believer
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We are both completely exonerated from sin as well as living in our flesh sin ridden bodies until we see Him face to face. His grace & mercy & blood on the cross make up the difference. We walk a journey of character development by being tempted by & resisting sin. We cannot say we have no sin, but we can say two things...
1. My status with God is that I am completely clean, white and beautiful before Him. Otherwise, I could not approach our Father boldly, in the throne room of the universe. My sin would preclude me from that privilege.
2. My state in life, is that I am a sinful person saved by grace. I will battle sin the remainder of my life. I will be tempted by the world system/culture, my own flesh and the devil. Only Jesus Christ was able to run that gauntlet and come out of it on the other side, sin free. We can't, else 1 John 1:9 would be unnecessary.
It is my choice to either, resist sin, flee youthful lusts etc. etc. or not. If I do, God is waiting for me to confess and ask for forgiveness. This automatically gets us into the Romans 5-8 treatise in Romans. Take it from me, do NOT take advantage of the grace of God. Respect it, and give God and Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit, the reverence they deserve in your fight against sin. Nevertheless, His grace, love, mercy and forgiveness are always waiting for you and I. That, cannot be denied. Otherwise, we are all dead men walking.
Nevertheless also, we have available to us all, complete victory ... IMHO, #1 occurred the day I first believed, #2 OTOH, will come through time, experience and choices as my character is redefined until choice by choice, I become His masterpiece.
Free from sin: Romans 5-8
Living with sin: 1 John 1:1-10
The latter actually supports both truths.
< Message edited by rofaith -- 11/14/2008 10:37:39 PM >
_____________________________
There is no other name....
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 10:49:41 PM
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rofaith
Posts: 81
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From: rofaith, a believer
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The bible doesn't promote sin in any way as a way of life or action, but it does acknowledge the reality that sin exists and that we struggle with it. We are freed from condemnation, but not free from sin's grasp. Paul admits in the last verse of Chapter 7 that he is a slave to sin, but also admits he is not condemned by it in Romans 8.
So, how can that be ? It explains why the grace and mercy we enjoy was so expensive via the Cross for our beloved Savior. Good things like grace and mercy don't come free. Once we realize and acknowledge the sin in our lives, we then realize exactly what was done for us on the Cross and how much it cost our Lord.
We cannot say we have no sin or that we don't sin, or cannot sin ( 1 john 1:1-10 ) But we can say that we are completely exonerated and have the option of having complete victory over sin during our life journey. Honesty and reality mandates that life is a journey to that end..... we will never be perfect in our character, but we are on a journey to perfect our character choice by choice.... God is always faithful with His mercy to love and accept me just as I am, sin and all. He already knows how many times I will fail with my choices from the moment I first believed to the day I see Him face to face. Yet, he still loved me and believed in me. That, is mercy and grace man... awesome.... the net net is, I owe Him everything
_____________________________
There is no other name....
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 10:53:46 PM
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AbbyGrace
Posts: 660
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
The bible doesn't promote sin in any way as a way of life or action, but it does acknowledge the reality that sin exists and that we struggle with it. We are freed from condemnation, but not free from sin's grasp. Paul admits in the last verse of Chapter 7 that he is a slave to sin, but also admits he is not condemned by it in Romans 8.
So, how can that be ? It explains why the grace and mercy we enjoy was so expensive via the Cross for our beloved Savior. Good things like grace and mercy don't come free. Once we realize and acknowledge the sin in our lives, we then realize exactly what was done for us on the Cross and how much it cost our Lord.
We cannot say we have no sin or that we don't sin, or cannot sin ( 1 john 1:1-10 ) But we can say that we are completely exonerated and have the option of having complete victory over sin during our life journey. Honesty and reality mandates that life is a journey to that end..... we will never be perfect in our character, but we are on a journey to perfect our character choice by choice.... God is always faithful with His mercy to love and accept me just as I am, sin and all. He already knows how many times I will fail with my choices from the moment I first believed to the day I see Him face to face. Yet, he still loved me and believed in me. That, is mercy and grace man... awesome.... the net net is, I owe Him everything
You are right with what you have stated here. I just hope no one thinks that this gives them a license to sin, because it doesn't. With sin follows consequences, and our Father loves us enough, to correct us.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 11:44:05 PM
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rofaith
Posts: 81
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From: rofaith, a believer
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quote:
You are right with what you have stated here. I just hope no one thinks that this gives them a license to sin, because it doesn't. With sin follows consequences, and our Father loves us enough, to correct us.
Yes you are right... I find people are so afraid though, that God won't forgive them that they forget the price that was paid for the grace of God for them. God becomes angry when people don't accept that grace and mercy that was purchased for them at the Cross.
People are going to sin after they come to Christ. If they take license, God will "drop a piano" on them like He did on me and I had it coming.
The scriptures deal with this and it's spelled out clearly in Romans 5-8. (e.g. ....God forbid...)
This opposite concern is that anyone can take Romans 5-8 and say that they have such total victory over sin that they come to the conclusion that they do not and cannot sin. There are those on this thread that are close to that attitude. But, unwittingly, they do sin because it's impossible not to and they leave human and emotional wreckage around them as they abuse others with this arrogant attitude.
It takes a balance of grace and truth.....
_____________________________
There is no other name....
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RE: romans 7 - 11/14/2008 11:56:04 PM
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AbbyGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
quote:
You are right with what you have stated here. I just hope no one thinks that this gives them a license to sin, because it doesn't. With sin follows consequences, and our Father loves us enough, to correct us.
Yes you are right... I find people are so afraid though, that God won't forgive them that they forget the price that was paid for the grace of God for them. God becomes angry when people don't accept that grace and mercy that was purchased for them at the Cross.
People are going to sin after they come to Christ. If they take license, God will "drop a piano" on them like He did on me and I had it coming.
The scriptures deal with this and it's spelled out clearly in Romans 5-8. (e.g. ....God forbid...)
This opposite concern is that anyone can take Romans 5-8 and say that they have such total victory over sin that they come to the conclusion that they do not and cannot sin. There are those on this thread that are close to that attitude. But, unwittingly, they do sin because it's impossible not to and they leave human and emotional wreckage around them as they abuse others with this arrogant attitude.
It takes a balance of grace and truth.....
Amen to that! You are so right. I know of people, who claim to be Christians, and maybe they are, but their behavior sometimes makes me question, but then I have to remind myself, "Don't pass judgement." So I try to get rid of the thought, but when I see someone doing something that is clearly wrong, and then hear them say, "Oh well, God will forgive me." I think, "Oh me....your right, but you obviously don't know, there are consequences as well." I think that's a little sad, and they obviously don't grasp the whole concept about what Christ has done for all of us, because if they did, this is not a game they would play, and it would be taken more seriously.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord."
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RE: romans 7 - 11/15/2008 6:06:26 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
The bible doesn't promote sin in any way as a way of life or action, but it does acknowledge the reality that sin exists and that we struggle with it. We are freed from condemnation, but not free from sin's grasp. Paul admits in the last verse of Chapter 7 that he is a slave to sin, but also admits he is not condemned by it in Romans 8.
So, how can that be ? It explains why the grace and mercy we enjoy was so expensive via the Cross for our beloved Savior. Good things like grace and mercy don't come free. Once we realize and acknowledge the sin in our lives, we then realize exactly what was done for us on the Cross and how much it cost our Lord.
We cannot say we have no sin or that we don't sin, or cannot sin ( 1 john 1:1-10 ) But we can say that we are completely exonerated and have the option of having complete victory over sin during our life journey. Honesty and reality mandates that life is a journey to that end..... we will never be perfect in our character, but we are on a journey to perfect our character choice by choice.... God is always faithful with His mercy to love and accept me just as I am, sin and all. He already knows how many times I will fail with my choices from the moment I first believed to the day I see Him face to face. Yet, he still loved me and believed in me. That, is mercy and grace man... awesome.... the net net is, I owe Him everything
1 John 1:8-10 doesn't say that we will continue to sin. It says that we all have sin, which isn't the same thing. All HAVE sin because have SINNED. It doesn't say that if we say we DO NOT sin we deceive ourselves, it says that if we say we HAVE NO sin we deceive ourselves.
Furthermore, the bible does, in fact, say that we are free from sin's grasp. Please reread the book of Romans. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye WERE the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then MADE FREE FROM SIN, ye became the servants of righteousness.
If you continue from there, you will find that Paul expresses the fact that you can only live one way or the other. Either you sin, and therefore serve sin unto death, and are unable to serve righteousness ... or you do not sin, but rather obey, and have fruit unto holiness and everlasting life.
Jesus confirms this in principle when he says that a man cannot serve two masters. He will love the one and hate the other. Jesus also says in John's gospel that if anyone sins, they are servants of sin, and servants do not abide in the house forever. But if we continue in his word, we will know the truth and the truth shall make us free (from the servitude of sin, by context).
I respect what you are trying to say, but it is earthly minded and founded in the flesh. It is not a spiritual teaching. In other words, you are preaching the pulpit, not the Word.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/15/2008 6:11:14 PM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rofaith
quote:
This opposite concern is that anyone can take Romans 5-8 and say that they have such total victory over sin that they come to the conclusion that they do not and cannot sin. There are those on this thread that are close to that attitude. But, unwittingly, they do sin because it's impossible not to and they leave human and emotional wreckage around them as they abuse others with this arrogant attitude.
The bible does not teach that it is impossible. That is your take on the issue. Teach from the Word. RC already pointed out the scriptures. There is no temptation we cannot resist. God will always make a way. People who choose not to get on the ark do so at their own option, not because they were forced to wade in the flood.
Also, I would wonder if the people you speak of are truly being arrogant and harming others, or if the emotional wreckage is actually conviction, and perhaps sore toes as they try to kick against the goads when the Word is very clear on the subject.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/15/2008 6:35:41 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AbbyGrace
Ok wait....are you saying that you are without sin? God will indeed make a way, there is no doubt about that, but no one should say they are without sin, only Christ was Perfect and Sinless.
Jeeeezzz, I just love it; you show in Scripture where God says we do not have to sin, and that sin should be an "IF" thingy and not a "WHEN" thingy for Believers; and immediately they try to attack the person and ignore God's Word.
John says that if one is walking in sin; they never knew God.
Jesus says that if one is commiting "Iniquity" (lawless, sin) that He never knew the person and they are not allowed in Heaven.
Paul says that we are dead to sin and how can a dead man sin. And paul say should we continue in sin so Grace may abound? The answer; God forbid!!
Good Lord, the gyrations that folks will go through to try and justify their pet sins and still claim to be Believers.
Jesus also said, "Go and sin no more", and He said it more than onece; and he also said;
(Luk 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
So why make excuses or try to justify sin; just go and sin no more.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/15/2008 7:32:12 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11448
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
A friendly nudge to remind everyone to avoid doing two things:
(1) Judging others by saying that they think they are sinless and thus arrogant;
(2) Judging others by saying that they are trying to defend their pet sins.
Please refrain from both of these attacks in this thread
Thanks!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
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Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: romans 7 - 11/15/2008 8:31:53 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 1668
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Jeeeezzz, I just love it;. . .
Good Lord, . . .
Who are you talking to? I don't know anyone here who has either of those avitar names let alone their actual names.
Living without sin. Give me a break.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/16/2008 8:49:22 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Jeeeezzz, I just love it;. . .
Good Lord, . . .
Who are you talking to? I don't know anyone here who has either of those avitar names let alone their actual names.
Living without sin. Give me a break.
I was speaking in generalities, not to anyone on the forujms in the specific.
The lie that Christians must sin after salvation is spread Church wide. and it attempts to negate the work of Christ on the Cross.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: romans 7 - 11/16/2008 9:39:29 AM
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Theo-Minor
Posts: 74
Joined: 2/9/2006
From: Greenville, SC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
Jeeeezzz, I just love it;. . .
Good Lord, . . .
Who are you talking to? I don't know anyone here who has either of those avitar names let alone their actual names.
Living without sin. Give me a break.
I hear ya. I mean, really, the absurdity of the idea ... that Christ actually set us free from the servitude of sin, that we died to sin, that we have been born to righteousness, that sin shall not have dominion over us.
What a crazy notion. Those guys Paul, John and Peter must have been smoking some good stuff.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2 Pet. 1:10)
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin. (1 Pet. 4:1)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God [...] (1 Jn. 3:9-10)
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 Jn. 5:18)
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (Rom. 6:1-6)
I realize that the actual teachings of scripture are difficult to grasp when your head is full of what we've all been taught from the moment we stepped into a church. However, the bible says what it says, and the authors of the various books maintain a single and unanimous thought throughout.
The idea of perpetual sinfulness in the born again believer is not biblical. Any of us can choose to ignore what the scriptures actually say, but that doesn't change them. We need to stop letting our fleshly mind get in the way of a spiritual truth.
_____________________________
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)
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RE: romans 7 - 11/16/2008 10:21:05 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1212
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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"Sins" are the result of sin, and sin is always unbelief. Once you understand this, the meaning of many difficult passages will become abundantly clear.
It will change your focus from being on your flesh (in which nothing good dwells) and will allow you to place your focus back where it belongs, which is on Jesus. Our faith is in Him, not in our own ability to cleanse ourselves from years of ingrained patterns of behavior. Focusing on our sins shows a lack of faith in God, who is not only the author of our faith but also its finisher. It is He who will complete the work He has begun in us.
Christ has taken away your sins on the cross 2000 years ago...never to see them again. He then provided a new and living way whereby we enter into a permanent Sabbath rest. Until you rest in the finality of the cross, you will never experience the reality of the resurrection...
"...which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." Col. 1:27
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: romans 7 - 11/16/2008 10:21:07 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5775
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Theo-Minor
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Living without sin. Give me a break.
I hear ya. I mean, really, the absurdity of the idea ... that Christ actually set us free from the servitude of sin, that we died to sin, that we have been born to righteousness, that sin shall not have dominion over us.
What a crazy notion. Those guys Paul, John and Peter must have been smoking some good stuff.
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall. (2 Pet. 1:10)
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin. (1 Pet. 4:1)
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God [...] (1 Jn. 3:9-10)
We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 Jn. 5:18)
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. (Rom. 6:1-6)
I realize that the actual teachings of scripture are difficult to grasp when your head is full of what we've all been taught from the moment we stepped into a church. However, the bible says what it says, and the authors of the various books maintain a single and unanimous thought throughout.
The idea of perpetual sinfulness in the born again believer is not biblical. Any of us can choose to ignore what the scriptures actually say, but that doesn't change them. We need to stop letting our fleshly mind get in the way of a spiritual truth.
An absolute timely and perfect post Theo.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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