RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to take communion.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 11:32:00 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 2003
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LabGuy
As far as the Catholic Church (not to mention many others) is concerned, abortion is an evil that claims over a million lives a year, with the full consent of the law. Nothing else in the political landscape even comes close. To not oppose that when afforded the opportunity is, as you agree, a sin. Taking Communion with unconfessed sin is wrong. Therefore, the priest is completely correct in asking those who support a pro-abortion candidate to refrain from participating unless they confess and repent.
Really? So do wars in Africa and Asia. Shouldn't they take the doctrine of pre-emptive war just as seriously?
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 12:46:29 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Again, not even the Catholic church has come out and said that voting the wrong way is a sin.
and they didn't in this case either, they state that supporting abortion is a sin.
quote:
Yes, but many people have different opinions about what the Bible and Christ actually meant. Few Christians, however, disagree with the fact that Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life.
Well since we are expressly discussing what happened in a Catholic church and the Catholic church bases their teachings on a set of beliefs they are to be applauded for holding to them instead of bowing down to political correctness and all inclusiveness. How can people have different opinions about what the Bible and Christ meant but still not disagree that Christ is the way, truth, and life?
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 12:49:46 PM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Kind of IGNORED the meaning of that last one, 'LIFE', haven't you?
No, just your interpretation of it. These people wouldn't be voting for Obama if they believed that life starts at conception.
Well actually since in the Catholic church there is a phenomenon known as cafeteria catholics who want to pick and chose what to follow so as to make it easy for them they will vote for whoever they want, allow whatever sin they see fit and justify it by saying "well i don't believe it is a sin" well that is fine but not thinking something is a sin doesn't make it so.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 12:50:03 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1935
Joined: 1/27/2007
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In this case, their beliefs ARE Christ's Truth. I am NOT a Catholic. But, whether Catholic, Baptist, AME or Methodist, the Word is the same and it is NOT on YOUR side.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
What an outragiously hilarious statement! "So no, I don't support church leaders coming out and standing up for their beliefs. "
I'm sorry you find the notion of church leaders standing up for their beliefs rather than Christ's truths so hilarious.
quote:
What in the world do you think comprises "standing up for their faith in Christ" if not their beliefs?
Somebody either recently called me a secular humanist or said that we live in a secular humanist world. If that is the case, calling Christ the Way, Truth, and Life, is a radical statement enough. Maybe we should stick to that, rather than starting with "Voting for Liberals is like committing murder" and then saying Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life after everyone has stopped listening to you.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 12:58:00 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1935
Joined: 1/27/2007
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Would Jeremiah have voted for Obama based on his abortion stand?
Jeremiah stated, Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations. (Jeremiah 1:4-5)
Would Isaiah?
Isaiah proclaimed the Word of God Yet hear now, O Jacob My servant, and Israel whom I have chosen. Thus says the Lord who made you And formed you from the womb… (Isaiah 44:1-2)
Would God.. who dictated this to Moses?
Exodus 21:22-25. If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, yet no harm follows, he shall surely be punished accordingly as the woman’s husband imposes on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if any harm follows, then you shall give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
Would Paul?
Would Peter?
Would James?
Would John?
Would Jesus Christ?
I think, deep down, you have to know the answer.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
Kind of IGNORED the meaning of that last one, 'LIFE', haven't you?
No, just your interpretation of it. These people wouldn't be voting for Obama if they believed that life starts at conception.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 1:24:42 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 5147
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
Actually, the only thing that the church should be standing up for is that Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life. If the Methodists start denying communion to those who oppose Kyoto and cutting greenhouse gas emissions, you can count on me to be just as opposed to that (perhaps even moreso.)
Do you believe churches should even practice any sort of church discipline at all?
quote:
No, just your interpretation of it. These people wouldn't be voting for Obama if they believed that life starts at conception.
I personally know people who voted for Obama who believe that life begins at conception. Somehow along the line they've decided that defending life isn't as important as other things they want to vote for.
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Bonky
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 3:04:22 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Would that be sort of like hiding the baby up on a shelf and leaving it to die in a botched abortion?
Like Obama thinks is okay?
Seriously, which is a greater crime? Denying someone communion, or denying them life?
Communion? That's no longer the issue... :P
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 3:14:40 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Actually, the only thing that the church should be standing up for is that Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life.
According to whom? Sorry, but any view that narrows the scope of entire word of God to simply what took place in the ministry of Christ is lacking...
quote:
The problem here is that now the priest is chasing people away from the Church.
That is not always a bad thing... Jesus sent people away... Read John 6...
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If it is God's will that abortion should be stopped, then keeping them in Church- and giving them more opportunities to come to Christ if they haven't- and giving them more opportunities to hear the priest and see things God's way- would generally be the most constructive thing to do.
Not always... There comes a time when you remove people who refuse to repent of their ways... Clearly in 1 Corinthians 5...
quote:
So no, I don't support church leaders coming out and standing up for their beliefs. I support church leaders coming out and standing up for their faith in Christ.
You support people doing as they please and avoiding the consequences... The priest is standing on faith in Christ and doing right by His word, and that is what you have issue with...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 3:18:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
I notice that those critical of the priest still have not answered this question: is it a sin to not oppose an evil agenda when you are presented with an opportunity to do so?
Yes, it is a sin. The question, really is what constitutes an evil agenda, and whether not speaking out against one evil agenda is as big of a sin as not speaking out against another agenda the church considers evil.
There is nothing righteous about abortion.... It's evil... As well, Obama's stance on homosexuality... Evil...
And not doing what is right is a sin...
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 3:33:58 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
IIRC, I don't think he does so directly.
You don't think so? What is that? God isn't lukewarm... You need to SAY either He doesn't or He does...
quote:
Again, not even the Catholic church has come out and said that voting the wrong way is a sin.
It's about lending support for certain agendas.... And voting is an action, it lends support to whatever and it's certainly not out of the jurisdiction of God's law....
quote:
Yes, but many people have different opinions about what the Bible and Christ actually meant. Few Christians, however, disagree with the fact that Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life.
Yes they do...
If Jesus is the Way, there isn't a secular argument that has an ounce of merit
If Jesus is the Truth, any attempt to makes things like abortion and homosexual right according to the Truth are lies...
If He is Life, everything other than Him is death... It's apparent many find life in things other than Jesus...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 3:36:37 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
Somebody either recently called me a secular humanist or said that we live in a secular humanist world. If that is the case, calling Christ the Way, Truth, and Life, is a radical statement enough. Maybe we should stick to that, rather than starting with "Voting for Liberals is like committing murder" and then saying Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life after everyone has stopped listening to you.
Lowering the bar doesn't make it ok... If the truth of God's word makes one turn away it was meant to... His word never returns void...
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 11/17/2008 7:27:35 PM >
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 3:42:56 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7594
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Somebody either recently called me a secular humanist or said that we live in a secular humanist world. If that is the case, calling Christ the Way, Truth, and Life, is a radical statement enough. Maybe we should stick to that, rather than starting with "Voting for Liberals is like committing murder" and then saying Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life after everyone has stopped listening to you.
I find it ironic, that this statement by Christ Himself, meant to convey that the reality of Christ is to dominate every aspect of our lives in terms of our beliefs, convictions, and behaviors, is now interpreted by some to mean that Christ is to have nothing whatsoever to do with our beliefs, convictions, and behaviors.
There is nothing radical abiout this statement if it doesn't change a single thought in your head or decision you make.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 6:34:39 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I know, I do not get that.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Somebody either recently called me a secular humanist or said that we live in a secular humanist world. If that is the case, calling Christ the Way, Truth, and Life, is a radical statement enough. Maybe we should stick to that, rather than starting with "Voting for Liberals is like committing murder" and then saying Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life after everyone has stopped listening to you.
I find it ironic, that this statement by Christ Himself, meant to convey that the reality of Christ is to dominate every aspect of our lives in terms of our beliefs, convictions, and behaviors, is now interpreted by some to mean that Christ is to have nothing whatsoever to do with our beliefs, convictions, and behaviors.
There is nothing radical abiout this statement if it doesn't change a single thought in your head or decision you make.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/17/2008 7:26:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Somebody either recently called me a secular humanist or said that we live in a secular humanist world. If that is the case, calling Christ the Way, Truth, and Life, is a radical statement enough. Maybe we should stick to that, rather than starting with "Voting for Liberals is like committing murder" and then saying Jesus is the Way, Truth, and Life after everyone has stopped listening to you.
I find it ironic, that this statement by Christ Himself, meant to convey that the reality of Christ is to dominate every aspect of our lives in terms of our beliefs, convictions, and behaviors, is now interpreted by some to mean that Christ is to have nothing whatsoever to do with our beliefs, convictions, and behaviors.
There is nothing radical abiout this statement if it doesn't change a single thought in your head or decision you make.
There is an ever growing trend of belief that people can lead two distinct separate lives... You can have your secular view and your spiritual views and if there is conflict it's of no consequence and don't even consider that God comes first and foremost since there must be balance between the views. And of course since God is black and white there is a clash...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/18/2008 1:55:44 AM
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womaninchrist
Posts: 466
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If Christ were walking amongst us, I'm rather certain He'd be at least disappointed and probably disgusted or worse with all of our politicians and the candidates they ran against along with how our country operates, how our society treats many, how greed allows many things to be seen as more valuable than the living, etc. I'm sure his distate for what He'd see would go far beyond whether or not we'd succeeded in making abortion once again illegal.
While I'll wholeheartedly agree that abortion is a horrid thing and should be avoided, I justdon't see where voting for someone who refuses to make it illegal is a sin. Even when illegal, people still had abortions and now that it's legal that doesn't mean anyone has to choose to have one. It's purely a matter of individual choice. Theoretically, an education campaign (or whatever you'd like to call it) could convince most or even all to avoid unwanted/unplanned pregnancies and to choose options other than abortion should a pregnancy occur - despite the legality of abortion. We have many ways to fight abortion besides politics and several of them are potentially more effective.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/18/2008 5:35:33 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
It's purely a matter of individual choice.
So is murder, rape, willful disobedience to God, adultery, so what is your point. All sin is a personal choice.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/18/2008 8:48:12 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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A "woman in Christ" that is for killing innocent babies and shrugs it off as a "personal choice"? All sins are just that!
Unreal and forgive me for being so crass about my feelings on this issue. As a father, as a husband, as a law enforcement officer it absolutely disgusts me to my core. And not a lot does that anymore, but the snuffing out of babies, the abuse of babies, of children is something that truly angers me.
I wonder.. I really really wonder how many of these posters have ever seen a full and whole abortion procedure.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/18/2008 12:05:47 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
If Christ were walking amongst us, I'm rather certain He'd be at least disappointed and probably disgusted or worse with all of our politicians and the candidates they ran against along with how our country operates, how our society treats many, how greed allows many things to be seen as more valuable than the living, etc. I'm sure his distate for what He'd see would go far beyond whether or not we'd succeeded in making abortion once again illegal.
While I'll wholeheartedly agree that abortion is a horrid thing and should be avoided, I justdon't see where voting for someone who refuses to make it illegal is a sin. Even when illegal, people still had abortions and now that it's legal that doesn't mean anyone has to choose to have one. It's purely a matter of individual choice. Theoretically, an education campaign (or whatever you'd like to call it) could convince most or even all to avoid unwanted/unplanned pregnancies and to choose options other than abortion should a pregnancy occur - despite the legality of abortion. We have many ways to fight abortion besides politics and several of them are potentially more effective.
Abortion is horrid but keep it legal... Check....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/18/2008 1:10:15 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
A "woman in Christ" that is for killing innocent babies and shrugs it off as a "personal choice"? All sins are just that!
Unreal and forgive me for being so crass about my feelings on this issue. As a father, as a husband, as a law enforcement officer it absolutely disgusts me to my core. And not a lot does that anymore, but the snuffing out of babies, the abuse of babies, of children is something that truly angers me.
I wonder.. I really really wonder how many of these posters have ever seen a full and whole abortion procedure.
I doubt they have. If they had they would see that it is a baby being ripped apart or burned to death. They would also discover that the baby is far more developed than they have been led to believe.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/22/2008 4:51:59 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I doubt it would make a difference. Face it they just do not care. Let them take communion at their own risk. I am not saying what will happen either way, but some things I do not want to chance.
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
A "woman in Christ" that is for killing innocent babies and shrugs it off as a "personal choice"? All sins are just that!
Unreal and forgive me for being so crass about my feelings on this issue. As a father, as a husband, as a law enforcement officer it absolutely disgusts me to my core. And not a lot does that anymore, but the snuffing out of babies, the abuse of babies, of children is something that truly angers me.
I wonder.. I really really wonder how many of these posters have ever seen a full and whole abortion procedure.
I doubt they have. If they had they would see that it is a baby being ripped apart or burned to death. They would also discover that the baby is far more developed than they have been led to believe.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/24/2008 8:11:48 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
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quote:
Abortion is horrid but keep it legal... Check....
That slapped me in the face too.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/24/2008 4:07:39 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 224
Joined: 10/3/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: womaninchrist
If Christ were walking amongst us, I'm rather certain He'd be at least disappointed and probably disgusted or worse with all of our politicians and the candidates they ran against along with how our country operates, how our society treats many, how greed allows many things to be seen as more valuable than the living, etc. I'm sure his distate for what He'd see would go far beyond whether or not we'd succeeded in making abortion once again illegal.
While I'll wholeheartedly agree that abortion is a horrid thing and should be avoided, I justdon't see where voting for someone who refuses to make it illegal is a sin. Even when illegal, people still had abortions and now that it's legal that doesn't mean anyone has to choose to have one. It's purely a matter of individual choice. Theoretically, an education campaign (or whatever you'd like to call it) could convince most or even all to avoid unwanted/unplanned pregnancies and to choose options other than abortion should a pregnancy occur - despite the legality of abortion. We have many ways to fight abortion besides politics and several of them are potentially more effective.
I must say I agree with you. Something I find really funny about the abortion debate is that the ones who are most staunchly against it are men. The very people who will never, ever get pregnant seem to have the most to say on the topic.
I don't understand why all this time and energy is spent on debating and condemning women instead of coming up with a way to safely remove the unborn from the womb so it can develop somewhere else. Et voila. No more abortion.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/24/2008 4:11:58 PM
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writerchick
Posts: 224
Joined: 10/3/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Would that be sort of like hiding the baby up on a shelf and leaving it to die in a botched abortion?
Like Obama thinks is okay?
Seriously, which is a greater crime? Denying someone communion, or denying them life?
I would think denying communion would be the greater crime since you're messing with one's eternal life while the other only messes with a physical life that's going to pass away anyway. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Sounds pretty good to me.
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RE: Priest, asking those who voted for Obama not to tak... - 11/24/2008 6:16:14 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6342
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: writerchick
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
Would that be sort of like hiding the baby up on a shelf and leaving it to die in a botched abortion?
Like Obama thinks is okay?
Seriously, which is a greater crime? Denying someone communion, or denying them life?
I would think denying communion would be the greater crime since you're messing with one's eternal life while the other only messes with a physical life that's going to pass away anyway. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Sounds pretty good to me.
Communion does not grant eternal life.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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