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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 6:57:32 PM
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Bas
Posts: 278
Joined: 4/15/2006
From: Washington, DC
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quote:
What if Obama was pro-life?
He wouldn't have made it past community organizer in his city, and we wouldn't even know his name.
_____________________________
How can I run for office and say I want to be a weak president? We need a strong president, strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power the President shouldn’t have. -- Ron Paul
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 8:42:57 PM
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Acts29
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For starters it would be difficult for McCain to get the republican nomination and Obama to receive the democratic nomination. This is an area that is fundamental within the two separate parties.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 9:37:33 PM
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1970rodney
Posts: 1967
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
5) As for the abortion issue, I agree that abortion is murder. But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal.
Making something "illegal" and having a penalty for breaking the laws stops me from doing many things. NONE of my many friends who had abortions would have "considered" having one and facing the death penalty or jail time. NONE of them. I don't know of any doctor who would risk "murder charges" either.
You're right, it would stop some people. But let's remember that women had dangerous back-alley abortions prior to Roe vs. Wade, and many died as a result. Overturning Roe vs. Wade at this point without changing adoption laws and the overall culture in our country towards unmarried single pregnant women just wouldn't be wise at this point just yet. There's more to being pro-life than just overturning Roe vs. Wade. Abortion isn't a simple issue where you can just overturn Roe vs. Wade and call it good. There's a LOT more to do than just that.
It always amazes me when people say legal abortions keep women from getting an abortion in the back ally and dying. Using that logic why do we not legalize narcotics so that we won't have addicts buying in the back alleys and street corners? That way they can go home get high and overdose in the convience of their home and not the street. Making abortion illegal means that as a country we do not condone murder as we have some 50 million or so since we legalized it. It is clear from your original post of why you voted as you did that you are concerned about your financial woes more than the choice of an innocent to live. David said he had been young and now was old and he had never seen the righteous forsaken or their seed begging bread. Now I do worry at times about the economy but my choice for President has always strarted with their stance on abortion and gay and lesbian rights. If we could get people on all levels of government with the right view (that would be God's view) on these two subjects the rest of these issues would take care of themselves with God's blessing.
_____________________________
I started out with nothing and still have most of it!
I don't have to go to Church, I get to!
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 10:17:59 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Well, the question is moot, since he definitely isn't pro-life, so it's pretty much a useless thread....
I wouldn't say it's moot at all. I've read on here in other threads that McCain got the vote from people because of his pro-life stance. I was curious to see if people would've changed their vote if Obama had this stance. If you find it useless, then feel free to move on to other threads. Thanks for your input, though.
He would have to change his views on homosexuality as well...
He claims... It's not a choice, homosexuality is no less moral than heterosexuality and he spoke proudly that is former church recognized same sex unions... Btw... These can be confirmed at http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 10:21:38 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
You're right, it would stop some people. But let's remember that women had dangerous back-alley abortions prior to Roe vs. Wade, and many died as a result.
Do we generally lament over someone attempting to take life and in the process they lose theirs? People who seek to murder another and die actually commit double murder according to God's word...
quote:
Overturning Roe vs. Wade at this point without changing adoption laws and the overall culture in our country towards unmarried single pregnant women just wouldn't be wise at this point just yet. There's more to being pro-life than just overturning Roe vs. Wade. Abortion isn't a simple issue where you can just overturn Roe vs. Wade and call it good. There's a LOT more to do than just that.
That doesn't do much for the 3000+ unborn who are murdered every day....
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 10:22:56 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
It is my understanding that a far greater number of women have severe medical complications as a result of legal medical clinic abortions than ever did as a result of back alley abortions. NOTE: I said number and not percentage; yes, it is true that back alley abortions are far more dangerous, but many magnitudes more woman are choosing abortions because it is legal, and the result is that far more woman get hurt physically, emotionally, and psychologically than ever did when it was illegal. If the issue is truly about "protecting" woman then it seems that the legalization of abortion is not the right answer.
Edited to add: Additionally, back alley abortions still exist today. Legalization has reduced them, but it has not eliminated them.
Unfortunately we'll never know how many suffered injury or died during back alley abortions since there no statistics to compare them with.
Drop in the bucket compared to the 50,000,000(and counting) unborn children who have been slaughtered...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 10:24:06 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
b) if someone dies in the process of murdering someone else, why should we care? I see it as justice done.
That attitude right there makes you no better than a pro-choice person.
It is justice... If a person is seeking to kill another and dies in the attempt to murder it's justice...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 10:31:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
So you would say all these women if they died during an abortion deserved it.
Anyone seeking to murder another and has their life taken in the attempt to do can't say they didn't deserve the consequences of their actions...
quote:
You know what's never discussed is the men's responsibility in unplanned pregnancies. A lot of times the men involved, relentlessly pressure the woman to get an abortion.
They are just as guilty.... And anyone who doesn't take care of their own is said to be worse than the infidel, and yes that is a verse in the bible...
quote:
Sometimes the families relentlessly pressure the women to get abortions. So the blame isn't always totally the girl or woman.
True, yet she has the final say...
quote:
How about the case where the parents of a 19 year old who planned to marry her babies father, kidnapped her so they could force her to get an abortion? They however did not succeed, but there are probably more instances when they do. Do these women deserve die too?
Please... Let's stay with the rules and not the extreme exceptions....
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You may choose to look at it as black/white, but it isn't always so.
Pretending extreme exceptions have any bearing on the matter doesn't help...
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Abortion is the end solution, we need to concentrate on preventing the source of abortions.(promiscuous sex, pre-martial sex) Outlawing abortion isn't going to stop teens, young women/men from having sex.
If you can't get people to no kill their own flesh and blood you will not get them to stop fornicating...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 10:40:23 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8030
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mark328
quote:
b) if someone dies in the process of murdering someone else, why should we care? I see it as justice done.
That attitude right there makes you no better than a pro-choice person.
The difference is in the innocence of the victim. An unborn baby is always innocent, a woman who freely murders her child is never innocent. The OT imposes the death penalty for murderers
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 10:46:52 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8030
Joined: 9/5/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
a) far fewer that legal "abortions"
b) if someone dies in the process of murdering someone else, why should we care? I see it as justice done.
So you would say all these women if they died during an abortion deserved it.
Probably. They died during while commiting a murder. Case closed.
quote:
You know what's never discussed is the men's responsibility in unplanned pregnancies. A lot of times the men involved, relentlessly pressure the woman to get an abortion. Sometimes the families relentlessly pressure the women to get abortions. So the blame isn't always totally the girl or woman.
I understand all that. But unless they hold her down (or drug her) while the murderer pulls the baby from her, she is an accomplice. If she walks into the situation of her own will (that is, she is not physcially forced) then she is committing murder.
quote:
How about the case where the parents of a 19 year old who planned to marry her babies father, kidnapped her so they could force her to get an abortion?
They should be tried for kidnapping and murder. If she did not resist then she is guilty of murder also.
The biblical example holds true here. If a maid is raped in the city and fails to cry out, she is counted as a willing participant.
quote:
You may choose to look at it as black/white, but it isn't always so.
Murder is always black and white.
quote:
Abortion is the end solution, we need to concentrate on preventing the source of abortions.(promiscuous sex, pre-martial sex) Outlawing abortion isn't going to stop teens, young women/men from having sex.
No, but it will stop most of them from killing their babies. And it will stop quite a few of them from having sex in the first place knowing that they cannot get rid of the evidnece very easily.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 11:32:30 PM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 602
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
a) far fewer that legal "abortions"
b) if someone dies in the process of murdering someone else, why should we care? I see it as justice done.
So you would say all these women if they died during an abortion deserved it.
Probably. They died during while committing a murder. Case closed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
You know what's never discussed is the men's responsibility in unplanned pregnancies. A lot of times the men involved, relentlessly pressure the woman to get an abortion. Sometimes the families relentlessly pressure the women to get abortions. So the blame isn't always totally the girl or woman.
I understand all that. But unless they hold her down (or drug her) while the murderer pulls the baby from her, she is an accomplice. If she walks into the situation of her own will (that is, she is not physically forced) then she is committing murder.
So if these 17 and under teens are forced or severely pressured to have abortions they deserve to die, how chivalrous. Especially considering 99 out of 100 of the boys responsible will take off the minute they're told their about to become a Dada. What's even worse is their parents will help them to get away. You have no idea how young girls think, worse you have no compassion. I bet if was you guys getting pregnant this would be a different story. If a female is 17 or under her parents can make her get an abortion and some will even say if she doesn't she's on her own.
quote:
How about the case where the parents of a 19 year old who planned to marry her babies father, kidnapped her so they could force her to get an abortion?
They should be tried for kidnapping and murder. If she did not resist then she is guilty of murder also.
The biblical example holds true here. If a maid is raped in the city and fails to cry out, she is counted as a willing participant.
How often have your children ever resisted you with force? Most of these young women are terrified of their parents. That thing about being raped is the most awful thing one could say. Rape is a violent crime and usually the girl/women lives are at stake, but again you can't understand because your a man.
quote:
You may choose to look at it as black/white, but it isn't always so.
Murder is always black and white.
It's not just about murder, you need to look at the whole picture.
quote:
Abortion is the end solution, we need to concentrate on preventing the source of abortions.(promiscuous sex, pre-martial sex) Outlawing abortion isn't going to stop teens, young women/men from having sex.
No, but it will stop most of them from killing their babies. And it will stop quite a few of them from having sex in the first place knowing that they cannot get rid of the evidence very easily.
Your living in a fantasy world if you think making abortion illegal is going to stop it. Perhaps we should threaten young men with castration if they don't keep it in their pants.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/14/2008 11:39:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
So if these 17 and under teens are forced or severely pressured to have abortions they deserve to die, how chivalrous. Especially considering 99 out of 100 of the boys responsible will take off the minute they're told their about to become a Dada. What's even worse is their parents will help them to get away. You have no idea how young girls think, worse you have no compassion. I bet if was you guys getting pregnant this would be a different story. If a female is 17 or under her parents can make her get an abortion and some will even say if she doesn't she's on her own.
How about dealing with the reality of abortion and not the exceptions...
quote:
How often have your children ever resisted you with force? Most of these young women are terrified of their parents. That thing about being raped is the most awful thing one could say. Rape is a violent crime and usually the girl/women lives are at stake, but again you can't understand because your a man.
I am male and was rape so you are wrong...
quote:
It's not just about murder, you need to look at the whole picture.
There is nothing in the picture that removes the fact that someone is murdered...
quote:
Your living in a fantasy world if you think making abortion illegal is going to stop it.
You are living in a fantasy world if you think making keeping abortion legal is going to stop it.
quote:
Perhaps we should threaten young men with castration if they don't keep it in their pants.
What are going to threaten the young women with for taking theirs off?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/15/2008 12:01:55 AM
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His_4_Ever
Posts: 602
Joined: 10/4/2008
From: Idaho
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
So if these 17 and under teens are forced or severely pressured to have abortions they deserve to die, how chivalrous. Especially considering 99 out of 100 of the boys responsible will take off the minute they're told their about to become a Dada. What's even worse is their parents will help them to get away. You have no idea how young girls think, worse you have no compassion. I bet if was you guys getting pregnant this would be a different story. If a female is 17 or under her parents can make her get an abortion and some will even say if she doesn't she's on her own.
How about dealing with the reality of abortion and not the exceptions...
This is the reality of abortion and pregnancy among girls/young women. What put all the blame on girl? If the guy's not pushing for an abortion, they usually are no where in sight. The girls are scared and confused.
quote:
How often have your children ever resisted you with force? Most of these young women are terrified of their parents. That thing about being raped is the most awful thing one could say. Rape is a violent crime and usually the girl/women lives are at stake, but again you can't understand because your a man.
I am male and was rape so you are wrong...
I've been raped too, but you disagree rape is a violent crime and girl/boy lives aren't at stake.
quote:
It's not just about murder, you need to look at the whole picture.
There is nothing in the picture that removes the fact that someone is murdered...
No, but abortion isn't always voluntary.
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Your living in a fantasy world if you think making abortion illegal is going to stop it.
You are living in a fantasy world if you think making keeping abortion legal is going to stop it.
Just where have I ever said making abortion legal is gonna stop it 
quote:
Perhaps we should threaten young men with castration if they don't keep it in their pants.
What are going to threaten the young women with for taking theirs off?
I can't think up everything, I already came up how to punish the boys. Oh, wait I think an unwanted pregnancy is enough, how bout you?
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/15/2008 8:36:57 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3146
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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quote:
A man with a socialist agenda is in no way going to be pro life.
100% accurate. The two are opposing beliefs.
quote:
Yes, I would have like the oppurtunity to vote for the first black president.
I prefer qualified over skin pigment.
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that McCain got the vote from people because of his pro-life stance.
Only in that he met one criteria. There were more which he didn't do so well in. I would think most conservative christians would vote against a pro abortionist belief in the most effective way possible and that is why many voted for McCain. It wasn't so much an endorsement of McCain as it was anti-Obama.
quote:
The circumstances that our country has been under warrant a different direction than what we've had in quite some time.
You didn't like liberal lite Bush so you voted for extra-liberal Obama? Hmmm. That is like throwing out all your gallon of vanilla ice cream and buying 25 gallons of rocky road.
quote:
3) Politically, I'm neither liberal nor conservative
Funny how you moderates tend to vote for liberals...eh?
quote:
I like John McCain, but Sarah Palin was a very poor choice of running mate.
Proof positive CNN and Oberman and Saturday Night Live won the election for Obama.
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But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal
It would save millions of babies lives. I like babies. I think that is a good thing.
Also remember, not only does Obama want to increase the availability of abortions he wants to cut the funding for Crisis Pregenacy Centers that council against abortion. That is a pretty bold agenda...and defines the man.
quote:
He wouldn't have made it past community organizer in his city, and we wouldn't even know his name.
Another brilliant politically astute statement.
quote:
Using that logic why do we not legalize narcotics so that we won't have addicts buying in the back alleys and street corners?
This is the second agenda. Its coming.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/15/2008 11:18:47 PM
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1970rodney
Posts: 1967
Joined: 5/1/2008
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^ That's what I kinda figured.
_____________________________
I started out with nothing and still have most of it!
I don't have to go to Church, I get to!
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing.
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/15/2008 11:32:14 PM
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ta_mosquito
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/17/2008 11:17:12 AM
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Mark328
Posts: 202
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
quote:
A man with a socialist agenda is in no way going to be pro life.
100% accurate. The two are opposing beliefs.
quote:
Yes, I would have like the oppurtunity to vote for the first black president.
I prefer qualified over skin pigment.
quote:
that McCain got the vote from people because of his pro-life stance.
Only in that he met one criteria. There were more which he didn't do so well in. I would think most conservative christians would vote against a pro abortionist belief in the most effective way possible and that is why many voted for McCain. It wasn't so much an endorsement of McCain as it was anti-Obama.
quote:
The circumstances that our country has been under warrant a different direction than what we've had in quite some time.
You didn't like liberal lite Bush so you voted for extra-liberal Obama? Hmmm. That is like throwing out all your gallon of vanilla ice cream and buying 25 gallons of rocky road.
quote:
3) Politically, I'm neither liberal nor conservative
Funny how you moderates tend to vote for liberals...eh?
quote:
I like John McCain, but Sarah Palin was a very poor choice of running mate.
Proof positive CNN and Oberman and Saturday Night Live won the election for Obama.
quote:
But overturning Roe vs. Wade won't change things other than make abortion illegal
It would save millions of babies lives. I like babies. I think that is a good thing.
Also remember, not only does Obama want to increase the availability of abortions he wants to cut the funding for Crisis Pregenacy Centers that council against abortion. That is a pretty bold agenda...and defines the man.
quote:
He wouldn't have made it past community organizer in his city, and we wouldn't even know his name.
Another brilliant politically astute statement.
quote:
Using that logic why do we not legalize narcotics so that we won't have addicts buying in the back alleys and street corners?
This is the second agenda. Its coming.
SonInMe,
Surely you don't think I would base my opinion of Sarah Palin based on SNL skits?? Those skits influenced me just about as much Will Ferrell's skits influenced me to demand more cowbell in every song I've ever heard!! LOL BTW, I'm not a fan of Keith Olbermann, Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, etc. Regardless of their political stance, they're nothing but obnoxious loudmouths that aren't worthy of my time...
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RE: What if Obama was pro-life? - 11/17/2008 11:43:46 PM
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John_O
Posts: 8030
Joined: 9/5/2006
Status: online
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Abortion is the sacrament of feminism
quote:
ORIGINAL: campbe33
So if these 17 and under teens are forced or severely pressured to have abortions they deserve to die, how chivalrous. Especially considering 99 out of 100 of the boys responsible will take off the minute they're told their about to become a Dada. What's even worse is their parents will help them to get away. You have no idea how young girls think, worse you have no compassion. I bet if was you guys getting pregnant this would be a different story. If a female is 17 or under her parents can make her get an abortion and some will even say if she doesn't she's on her own.
There are crisis pregnancy centers all over the place (I support two in my area). They can and will get her through the delivery and the adoption.
If she is being forced but walks into the abortuary on her own feet without being drugged or dragged, then she is choosing to murder her child.
quote:
quote:
quote:
How about the case where the parents of a 19 year old who planned to marry her babies father, kidnapped her so they could force her to get an abortion?
They should be tried for kidnapping and murder. If she did not resist then she is guilty of murder also.
The biblical example holds true here. If a maid is raped in the city and fails to cry out, she is counted as a willing participant.
How often have your children ever resisted you with force?
Often. She is very strong willed.
quote:
Most of these young women are terrified of their parents. That thing about being raped is the most awful thing one could say. Rape is a violent crime and usually the girl/women lives are at stake, but again you can't understand because your a man.
But we are not talking about rape we are talking about murder (and the vast vast majority of unwanted pregnancies are NOT the result of rape). As a man I understand that an evil done to me does not give me a right to commit evil against an innocent.
quote:
quote:
You may choose to look at it as black/white, but it isn't always so.
Murder is always black and white.
It's not just about murder, you need to look at the whole picture.
What else is there? She has a baby inside her and she is either going to deliver it or murder it. There are no extenuating circumstances. There is no excuse for murder. (And don't even think of trying the self defense angle)
quote:
quote:
quote:
Outlawing abortion isn't going to stop teens, young women/men from having sex.
No, but it will stop most of them from killing their babies. And it will stop quite a few of them from having sex in the first place knowing that they cannot get rid of the evidence very easily.
Your living in a fantasy world if you think making abortion illegal is going to stop it. Perhaps we should threaten young men with castration if they don't keep it in their pants.
Read what I said again carefully "it will stop most of them from killing their babies" I never said it will stop all abortions. Some people are so evil that they will do anything to perform the feminist sacrament. But it will stop those who have any respect whatsoever for law and any shred of human decency in them
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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