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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 12:10:22 AM
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Milliecat
Posts: 147
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
I think think he highlights a portion of what goes on in this country, which is not necessarily representative of the whole. My main disagreement was with the overall tone that paints a picture of a struggling business owner being robbed to pay off a bunch of slackers.
Maybe I just don't have such a romanticized view of small businesses. I appreciate and respect what some people have done in creating something out of nothing, but I don't hold to this notion that they're all paragons of virtue, hard work, and sacrifice. Some are; some aren't. There's about as much variety in small business owners as there are in employees.
-Dan.
The personal character of the business owner doesn't matter. They create jobs, which create products and services people want, which increases tax revenue, which is good for everyone.
I have worked for some pretty big "donkeys" in my time, but guess what? My bills got paid and I contributed back into the local economy. Guess what else: I don't give a flying plague rat if a CEO takes a private jet everywhere and bathes in golden bathtubs. Why are people so jealous? The world ain't a level playing field, my friends. Some people make more money than others. Big deal, get over it. "Fairness" only exists in bedtime stories and the disconnected imaginations of witless liberals. We can deal with ethics reform later if that becomes necessary, but in order to do that we actually need surviving businesses.
As has been pointed out in other threads, a progressive tax structure is justified because, generally speaking, "the rich" benefit more financially from government services than do the poor.
I'm not convinced that the economy will be better off if we maintain the current levels of historically low tax rates on the upper brackets. I won't argue for or against it, but I haven't really seen much in the way of evidence put forth by conservative supporting their position that these increases will be harmful. All I've seen is empty rhetoric, Cory's letter included.
-Dan.
Let's see...the rich benefit more financially from government services than do the poor...hmmm...Cory's letter is empty rhetoric...hmmm... Hey I know! You're a liberal! 
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 4:29:26 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
As has been pointed out in other threads, a progressive tax structure is justified because, generally speaking, "the rich" benefit more financially from government services than do the poor.
By virtue of the fact that they make more they would pay more in a flat tax scheme even, couple that with the fact that they put much much more back into the economy and they actually deserve a tax break in my mind. It isn't only the personal taxes they pay but the jobs they create which equals more tax revenue and the goods they consume which creates more jobs which creates more tax revenues.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 4:43:46 AM
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Ichiban
Posts: 97
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From: Canyon Country, CA
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Consumption based taxes because it is a rewarding system for those who value savings which is the basis of a capitalistic society. Unfortunately, we don't save and despite 85% of our income tax coming from the top 15% we still have an $11 national debt.
Kind of makes your wonder how anyone thought an income tax was an effective means of taxation.
_____________________________
http://www.ichibanblog.net
Come and discover Japan's spirituality, with me!
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 7:39:21 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2022
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
As has been pointed out in other threads, a progressive tax structure is justified because, generally speaking, "the rich" benefit more financially from government services than do the poor.
I'm not convinced that the economy will be better off if we maintain the current levels of historically low tax rates on the upper brackets. I won't argue for or against it, but I haven't really seen much in the way of evidence put forth by conservative supporting their position that these increases will be harmful. All I've seen is empty rhetoric, Cory's letter included.
-Dan.
Can you please tell me what government services the "rich" benefit from more than the "poor"?
SEC and FCC oversight, access to civil courts, military action (in some cases), trade negotiations, federal business subsidies, intellectual property enforcement, infrastructure development, general law enforcement, etc.
While we all benefit from these services to some degree, the rich are better able to manipulate and capitalize upon them. I'm not saying this is wrong or immoral - it may be in some particular cases, but on the whole I don't think it's wrong nor do I think there's any way to get away from it.
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Can you then explain to me why that matters?
If you're arguing about how the rich get taxed disproportionately high, it would seem to me that this would be a rather important element to the argument. If they're being charged for services (which is essentially what taxes are, though the costs and benefits are shared, not individualized) it should be pointed out what services they're receiving and to what extent they are receiving them.
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In other words, why does everything have to be economically "fair"?
It doesn't. But it doesn't have to be grossly unfair either. Much of the argument I've seen (and certainly the core of Cory the Driller's letter) centers around the fairness of Obama's "spreading the wealth." If this question can be asked of me, it can certainly be asked of Cory.
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but there is a point where increasing tax rate actually DECREASES tax revenue
I understand that. My question is - where is that point? I keep hearing people hammering that point w/o providing many numbers and w/o providing additional context (like how did falling interest rates affect trends that are being credited to reduced taxes?)
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 8:22:52 AM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3146
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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quote:
an $11 national debt.
If its only 11 bucks I think our country is in great shape... 
Reagan lowered the tax rates on the highest earners and tax revenues increased....didn't they?
I don't understand what benefits the rich get from taxes or government programs. Maybe defence contractors? The only benefit they might get from taxes...is not payting themand I consider that a good thing.
We do not need all those government programs. It alsmost seems a given that the detractors from taxing the rich believe government helps people. Its not a given.
I am not in acedemia or white collar world. I work with blue collar common everyday people? I can tell ya, they ARE lazy. The people who come to work the third shift with me? These are not successful people. Most do drugs or alcohol. Most are unmarried and have kids. Most have a hard time doing the three things I feel is needed to keep your job....show up....show up on time....show up sober. 90% of the people fired from third shift could not meet those three criteria.
We keep people who get stoned at work, why? They show up.
We keep people who can barley do a relatively simple job that takes them months to learn, why? Its all there is.
Its not bad money either. Its not great...start out is 12 an hour for a job that anyone can do right from the street. We get health care, at a cost of 13,000 dollars to the employer a year per employee...and we pay 50 cents a month. Its not a bad job for the uneducated, normal everyday guy...and they cannot do the simple requirements for the job. Or won't.
Fact.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 8:23:58 AM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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Once upon a time, a hungry fox was roaming around here and there searching for food. Because of hunger, he was feeling weak and tired. Fortunately, he came to a garden where he saw a grape-vine laden with bunches of grapes they looked quite ripe and juicy.
The fox looked at the grapes with longing eyes and licked his chops. But the bunches were too high for him and he was feeling weak. So he sat down for a while to take some rest. On feeling refreshed, he jumped as high as he could, to get at the grapes. But he failed to reach them.
Then he again rested for some time and made another bold attempt, but was unlucky for the second time.
Forced to give up trying anymore, he just walked away and instead of accepting his failure, he remarked the grapes appeared to be ripe and juicy, but now I see them to be quite sour.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 8:46:42 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2022
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
I don't understand what benefits the rich get from taxes or government programs. Maybe defence contractors?
Defense contractors are certainly one example. The SEC and FCC provide frameworks and oversight for certain industries. By establishing and enforcing certain rules, they stabilize the playing field for companies and offer some protection against others who would infring upon their interests. Recently, the FCC voted 5-0 to open up certain "white space" broadcast frequency bands to be used by new generations of electronic devices. You and I may get the pleasure of being able to buy new gadgets, but the guys at Google, Microsoft, and Apple will be cashing in big - a decision that benefits all (or most) of us, but benefits some more than others.
The government builds and maintains highways. This allows you and me to visit people, go to stores, and to travel to our jobs to make our modest incomes. This also allows business owners to transport and sell goods, making much more than either you or me. A tractor trailer puts more wear and tear on the road than a car, but except for toll roads, they're allowed the same access to roads & highways as passenger cars. We all benefit from roads and bridges, but some benefit more than others.
quote:
I am not in acedemia or white collar world. I work with blue collar common everyday people? I can tell ya, they ARE lazy. The people who come to work the third shift with me? These are not successful people. Most do drugs or alcohol. Most are unmarried and have kids. Most have a hard time doing the three things I feel is needed to keep your job....show up....show up on time....show up sober. 90% of the people fired from third shift could not meet those three criteria.
We keep people who get stoned at work, why? They show up.
I know lots of people are lazy. But if the problem is really that bad (and I have no reason to doubt you), I'd put a good measure of the blame your company for poor hiring practices and maintaining poor workplace standards (and maybe the pay is too low). I'd bet money that the guys I work with drink and smoke pot more than the guys you work with, but they all work hard and do a good job.
-Dan.
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 8:50:38 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
As has been pointed out in other threads, a progressive tax structure is justified because, generally speaking, "the rich" benefit more financially from government services than do the poor.
This is not true. What was being discussed in another thread was a "theory" not a fact.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 8:53:01 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
A tractor trailer puts more wear and tear on the road than a car, but except for toll roads, they're allowed the same access to roads & highways as passenger cars.
They pay more in taxes too Dan!!!! They "pay for this".
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 9:04:30 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
Joined: 10/25/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
The government builds and maintains highways. This allows you and me to visit people, go to stores, and to travel to our jobs to make our modest incomes. This also allows business owners to transport and sell goods, making much more than either you or me. A tractor trailer puts more wear and tear on the road than a car, but except for toll roads, they're allowed the same access to roads & highways as passenger cars. We all benefit from roads and bridges, but some benefit more than others.
actually we benefit as much as the large companies do. Due to the increased competition in markets we can get goods for less and get a better selection than ever before. The trucks on the road pay the same gas taxes as everyone else so they actually are paying for the use of the road as they use them. Then you take into account that since the goods can now be moved overland more readily there has to be someone to unload, sort, and store goods so as well as paying for the roads they create more jobs.
quote:
I know lots of people are lazy. But if the problem is really that bad (and I have no reason to doubt you), I'd put a good measure of the blame your company for poor hiring practices and maintaining poor workplace standards (and maybe the pay is too low). I'd bet money that the guys I work with drink and smoke pot more than the guys you work with, but they all work hard and do a good job.
-Dan.
It isn't hiring practices when you can't find gooe workers. I have been in that position where I finally had to hire warm bodies to accomplish something and had to really steel my nerves to fire someone who was underperforming (even by the low standards i had to set to get employees).
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 9:20:31 AM
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iluvatar
Posts: 2022
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
A tractor trailer puts more wear and tear on the road than a car, but except for toll roads, they're allowed the same access to roads & highways as passenger cars.
They pay more in taxes too Dan!!!! They "pay for this".
Under our progressive system, sure they do. Our taxes aren't all obtained through general income confiscation. As you've pointed out elsewhere, some are more targeted.
But that doesn't negate my point about a nice new highway being more potentially lucrative to a shipping company than to a janitor.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
actually we benefit as much as the large companies do. Due to the increased competition in markets we can get goods for less and get a better selection than ever before. The trucks on the road pay the same gas taxes as everyone else so they actually are paying for the use of the road as they use them. Then you take into account that since the goods can now be moved overland more readily there has to be someone to unload, sort, and store goods so as well as paying for the roads they create more jobs.
I agree that we all generally benefit from these activities to some degree.
But I'm not talking about putting the sum benefit of the masses against the benefit of a company. I'm talking about putting the benefits of one individual up against those of another individual. The guy who owns a large company stands to benefit much more from a new highway than does the guy who loads the truck. That's why the government asks for a bigger cut of the owner's take than it does from the "little guy's" take.
The point I was trying to make with the example of tractor trailers damaging the roads was that for the amount of tonnage they carry (up to 80K lbs), tractor trailers do more damage to roads than the equivalent mass of passenger vehicles (about 20 cars/suv's). Were taxes spread evenly among everybody, drivers of passenger vehicles would actually be subsidizing trucking companies.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
It isn't hiring practices when you can't find gooe workers. I have been in that position where I finally had to hire warm bodies to accomplish something and had to really steel my nerves to fire someone who was underperforming (even by the low standards i had to set to get employees).
What would it have taken to get good employees you would have been happy with?
-Dan.
< Message edited by iluvatar -- 11/20/2008 9:27:47 AM >
_____________________________
Well, I've been to one world fair, a picnic, and a rodeo, and that's the stupidest thing I ever heard come over a set of earphones.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 9:32:38 AM
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_jjp_
Posts: 631
Joined: 10/25/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatarI agree that we all generally benefit from these activities to some degree.
But I'm not talking about putting the sum benefit of the masses against the benefit of a company. I'm talking about putting the benefits of one individual up against those of another individual. The guy who owns a large company stands to benefit much more from a new highway than does the guy who loads the truck. That's why the government asks for a bigger cut of the owner's take than it does from the "little guy's" take.
See therein lies the problem, you are focusing solely on how much the business owner gains from government infrastructure and balancing that with his taxes. It is necessary to take into account the gas taxes paid by the company delivering the products which is a further increase in what the business owner pays into the system, it is also necessary to into account the amount of benefit that the business owner provides in new jobs, increased competition making products more affordable, and supporting many smaller suppliers. Even if it is true that a business owner gains more from tax supported projects (which i don't believe to be true) they contribute more as well. A business owner benefits the country more than an average wage earner does through the jobs, taxes, and economic stimulus they provide and taking that into account it is no stretch to see where the business owners net benefit is less than that of the common worker.
quote:
What would it have taken to get good employees you would have been happy with?
-Dan.
Being somewhere else. Even then finding good help these days is hard. A vast majority of American workers are of the mind set of what can the company do for them while in return not offering back the same to the company. It was not always so, in general more workers used to show a loyalty to and a desire to participate in the growth of their employers company.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 10:01:04 AM
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stamper_ben
Posts: 10364
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lone Star State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
A tractor trailer puts more wear and tear on the road than a car, but except for toll roads, they're allowed the same access to roads & highways as passenger cars.
They pay more in taxes too Dan!!!! They "pay for this".
Ever seen the weigh stations the state puts up in the side of the highways? They don't weigh them trucks for show purposes. They TAX the trucks on what they weigh!
_____________________________
We will be known as His by the love we show one another.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 10:30:21 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
you seem so cavalier now
Steph, I don't know how to repsond to your seemingly pius post. Hmmmmm, have you looked at our economy latley? Is it working? Sorry, but I don't buy into all the "christian hype" about Obama and know who's really in charge. 
I'm not being pius at all. Far from it. Your posts were callous towards a hardworking small business person and all who are in the same situation who are genuinely concerned with the coming tax hikes. That is what 0bama has promised to do and with Congress being under Dem control there is nothing to stop it because that is their philosophy, tax and spend, create class warfare, blame the rich, etc., etc. It's the same old clap trap that they have been using since FDR. Actually the hype is the same as Huey P. Long's days of "Spreading the Wealth". It worked wonders for Louisiana. 
Of course God is in control. Those who are responsible for providing jobs for others must be prudent and have a clue to what is going on in order to prepare like we are supposed to do as Christians. As far as where I get my information, it's not the "christian hype" sources. We are heading into a period of deflation. Read up on it and see what comes with deflation. It won't be pretty.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/06/news/deflation.fortune/
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aMr4zHfQ.BVc&refer=home
http://www.commodityonline.com/futures-trading/technical/Global-Recap-19th-Nov-2008-7221.html
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/nov2008/pi20081119_603623.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index+-+temp_news+%2B+analysis
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article5192887.ece
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 10:51:22 AM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 716
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
In the words of Cory, God help us.
AMEN!!!
GREAT Letter!!! GO CORY; tell it like it is:
quote:
In short, Mr. Obama, your political philosophies represent everything that is wrong with our country. You represent the culture of government dependence instead of self reliance; Entitlement mentality instead of personal achievement; Penalization of the successful to reward the unmotivated; Political correctness instead of open mindedness and open debate. If you are successful, you may preside over the final transformation of America from being the greatest and most self-reliant culture on earth, to just another country of whiners and wimps, who sit around looking to the government to solve their problems. Like all of western Europe. All countries on the decline. All countries that, because of liberal socialistic mentalities, have a little less to offer mankind every year.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 11:28:53 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
Under our progressive system, sure they do.
Dan it has nothing to do with the progressive tax system. They pay more than a person who drives a car and it has NOTHING to do with their 'income" or "profitability".
You don't know what you are talking about.
Poor truck drivers pay more than you do even if you "earn" more money then they do.
quote:
But that doesn't negate my point about a nice new highway being more potentially lucrative to a shipping company than to a janitor.
Do you know the differance between crop. tax rate and individual tax rates?
Can you explain to us the progressive tax system of the shipping company you mentioned in the above quote and "who" pays that tax?
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 11:40:01 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
The guy who owns a large company stands to benefit much more from a new highway than does the guy who loads the truck. That's why the government asks for a bigger cut of the owner's take than it does from the "little guy's" take.
OK Dan,
Here is the truth.
You cannot get blood out of a turnip.
As long as we focus on these silly ideas the government is going to continue to grow larger and be more wasteful. More people will become brain dead and not know how to do even the most basic thing such as provide food for their family and become a slave to the government.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 12:00:13 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 147
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
you seem so cavalier now
Steph, I don't know how to repsond to your seemingly pius post. Hmmmmm, have you looked at our economy latley? Is it working? Sorry, but I don't buy into all the "christian hype" about Obama and know who's really in charge.
Just wondering where it says that Christians won't suffer too. I don't mean to sound negative. I've just seen some Christians have to endure more than the average person. And God is in charge but I bet He's pretty fed up with this country.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 12:04:55 PM
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Milliecat
Posts: 147
Joined: 11/13/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
A tractor trailer puts more wear and tear on the road than a car, but except for toll roads, they're allowed the same access to roads & highways as passenger cars.
They pay more in taxes too Dan!!!! They "pay for this".
Under our progressive system, sure they do. Our taxes aren't all obtained through general income confiscation. As you've pointed out elsewhere, some are more targeted.
But that doesn't negate my point about a nice new highway being more potentially lucrative to a shipping company than to a janitor.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
actually we benefit as much as the large companies do. Due to the increased competition in markets we can get goods for less and get a better selection than ever before. The trucks on the road pay the same gas taxes as everyone else so they actually are paying for the use of the road as they use them. Then you take into account that since the goods can now be moved overland more readily there has to be someone to unload, sort, and store goods so as well as paying for the roads they create more jobs.
I agree that we all generally benefit from these activities to some degree.
But I'm not talking about putting the sum benefit of the masses against the benefit of a company. I'm talking about putting the benefits of one individual up against those of another individual. The guy who owns a large company stands to benefit much more from a new highway than does the guy who loads the truck. That's why the government asks for a bigger cut of the owner's take than it does from the "little guy's" take.
The point I was trying to make with the example of tractor trailers damaging the roads was that for the amount of tonnage they carry (up to 80K lbs), tractor trailers do more damage to roads than the equivalent mass of passenger vehicles (about 20 cars/suv's). Were taxes spread evenly among everybody, drivers of passenger vehicles would actually be subsidizing trucking companies.
quote:
ORIGINAL: _jjp_
It isn't hiring practices when you can't find gooe workers. I have been in that position where I finally had to hire warm bodies to accomplish something and had to really steel my nerves to fire someone who was underperforming (even by the low standards i had to set to get employees).
What would it have taken to get good employees you would have been happy with?
-Dan.
So punish the truck companies? Doesn't the "little guy" benefit from the delivery of food, etc. by the truck companies?
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 12:10:34 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2942
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
My main disagreement was with the overall tone that paints a picture of a struggling business owner being robbed to pay off a bunch of slackers.
Hey dan,
Just in a discussion with a woman. She does not work. Her husband does. They have internet, cell phone and cable. They won't buy medical insurance because they believe it cost too much. (of course she is not working and the price she quoted to cover her is the SAME that I pay)
She and husband "plan" to start tying to have a family soon whether or not she gets a job or insurance. She is planning on letting the "gov" pay for the medical bills and even food if they need it.
She believes that she has "paid" for this right.
What do you think?
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 12:41:47 PM
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womaninchrist
Posts: 466
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
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I'm not Dan, but that woman is a great example of someone taking advantage of government programs. I've seen that happen IRL and seen others post similar on other boards. If she can work, her not working is pure choice and not something the government should be subsidizing in any way - including providing insurance. If they have things like cable and internet, there are likely many areas where even if she didn't return to work, they could "find" the necessary money to either purchase a private policy to cover her and any possible pregnancy or to put her on any employer based insurance her spouse might have (if any).
Similar problems are rampant with expansions of SCHIP. They've found where many families are dropping "family coverage" because SCHIP is a lot cheaper and "why not, I've paid my taxes, I deserve it." This was found all the way up to the top of the expanded income cap - or well into the middle class.
It's one thing to offer help to those that NEED it and for those that NEED it to use it. It's quite another for those that feel entitled to use it "because it's there" or "because I paid my taxes" or any other excuse of their choice to abuse the system. Unfortunately, their abuse of the system generally just creates bitterness from those struggling and problems for those who truly needed the help.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 2:39:27 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I gotta point out that it is the rich who have taken the risks of investing their money into business ventures. It is they who stand to lose it all. Granted, there have been some businesses started on a shoestring and have been very successful (Hewlett-Packard for one), but most are heavily financed at the start. Why do you want to punish success? I don't understand.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
As has been pointed out in other threads, a progressive tax structure is justified because, generally speaking, "the rich" benefit more financially from government services than do the poor.
-Dan.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 3:52:51 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 557
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stampinlady
quote:
HUH??
If these so called "business" men really knew what they were doing they'd be successful despite who's running the country.
Thanks for explaining Deb; I agree
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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RE: Meet Cory the Driller: "I resent you, Mr. Obam... - 11/20/2008 4:08:37 PM
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rhippie
Posts: 557
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Rich The Hippie
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
As has been pointed out in other threads, a progressive tax structure is justified because, generally speaking, "the rich" benefit more financially from government services than do the poor.
I'm not convinced that the economy will be better off if we maintain the current levels of historically low tax rates on the upper brackets. I won't argue for or against it, but I haven't really seen much in the way of evidence put forth by conservative supporting their position that these increases will be harmful. All I've seen is empty rhetoric, Cory's letter included.
-Dan.
Can you please tell me what government services the "rich" benefit from more than the "poor"?
SEC and FCC oversight,
I'm not sure I would consider some of the onerous requirements theses agencies enact a benefit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
access to civil courts,
You're kidding right? What advantages do they have? Anyone can sue anyone else for almost anything now a days
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ORIGINAL: iluvatar
military action (in some cases)
Riiiiggghhhttt!
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
, trade negotiations, federal business subsidies,
Well since these are business transactions I don't see how the "rich" benefit more than any other folks....such as employees of those businesses
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
intellectual property enforcement,
So are you claiming that having created something it should be open for everyone to use without paying for? If I'm correct that is tantamount to legalized theft....which is simply another name for taxation
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
infrastructure development,
You mean like roads, bridges, airports etc? How does that benefit the rich more than the rest of us?
quote:
ORIGINAL: iluvatar
general law enforcement, etc.
Unless you're claiming that the police are more apt to respond to them than anyone else I don't see your point.
_____________________________
Stand up for what's right....even if you're standing alone
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