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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 11:08:25 AM
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Jhud
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
On the positive side the appointments are generally reflective of a moderate political bent. The hard left is yelping, which is a good sign. Contrary to popular belief, most Presidents evolve into moderates, IMHO.
The negative is so many are retreads. The current President filled his cabinet with retreads and it worked against him. He took six years to finally take the reins. Obama may be doing the same thing. The test will be whether he acts decisively when somebody he appointed isn't getting it done.
I agree the appointments reflect his inexperience. He may feel he needs to make "safe" appointments.
Yes, like I said cold comfort. Perhaps like science, politics proceeds with the death of politicians (not in the violent way, but in the old passing away sort of way).
In reality, Obama may be more chameleon like than anyone expected; at the Ivy League University he was the thoughtful progressive, in Chicago he was the neighborhood organizer championing the cause of the underclass, in DC he morphs into a standard liberal politician, as President he surrounds himself with former political hacks. He seems to be good at becoming a blank slate upon which those around him (as well as voters) project desires and wishes rather than being a particular force for substantive change (and interestingly, this may explain why he is so disliked by a certain number of people too; they project their worst fears onto him as well).
Perhaps we have elected a human metaphor - President Zelig?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 12:54:00 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Clinton sniffed the winds.
Obama just changes colors...............LOL.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 1:32:46 PM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
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Only person we are missing from Clinton Administration is Kenneth Star. Lets bring him back, after all you republican wants to have another impeachment.
“……he just walked away and instead of accepting his failure, he remarked the grapes appeared to be ripe and juicy, but now I see them to be quite sour.”
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 1:36:29 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7594
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
Only person we are missing from Clinton Administration is Kenneth Star. Lets bring him back, after all you republican wants to have another impeachment.
Which Republicans have called for an impeachment, and on what grounds?
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 1:57:50 PM
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Mark328
Posts: 202
Joined: 8/9/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Only person we are missing from Clinton Administration is Kenneth Star. Lets bring him back, after all you republican wants to have another impeachment.
Which Republicans have called for an impeachment, and on what grounds?
This may clear some of this up - this is from the Wikipedia article on Bill Clinton's impeachment:
Impeachment proceedings were initiated during the post-election, "lame duck" session of the outgoing 105th Congress.
The wikipedia link for the 105th congress shows that Republicans held 55 of the 100 Senate seats, and 228 of the 435 Representative seats. As far as which specific Republicans called for impeachment, the article has no info on that...
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 2:01:23 PM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Only person we are missing from Clinton Administration is Kenneth Star. Lets bring him back, after all you republican wants to have another impeachment.
Which Republicans have called for an impeachment, and on what grounds?
He is not president yet and you folks are trying to take his skin off already, you telling me once he is president you wouldn’t try to impeach him?
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 2:13:33 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Only person we are missing from Clinton Administration is Kenneth Star. Lets bring him back, after all you republican wants to have another impeachment.
Which Republicans have called for an impeachment, and on what grounds?
He is not president yet and you folks are trying to take his skin off already, you telling me once he is president you wouldn’t try to impeach him?
ROFL................
Only if there is cause.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 4:10:42 PM
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Jhud
Posts: 7594
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From: Lake Wobegon
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quote:
ROFL................
Only if there is cause.
Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would think it would be any other way, unless they don't know anything about the constitution.
_____________________________
Jack
I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen: not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 8:24:45 PM
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leonfigg3
Posts: 377
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
He is not president yet and you folks are trying to take his skin off already, you telling me once he is president you wouldn’t try to impeach him?
You left-wing extremists need to do one of two things.
1. Bottle and sell whatwever it is you all have been drinking/ smoking/ whatever; for the past eight plus years.
2. Write Science-Fiction books with the great amount of far-fetched ideas you all have had, and continue to have.
Either way you all could earn enough money to pay off the national debt and solve the economic problem in no time.
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/21/2008 10:31:53 PM
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rlj
Posts: 2351
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You guys should just be happy if you got some change left in your pockets after the first of the year. You guys have to subsidize the Dubya tax cuts yet and there will be an awful lot of us with negative tax liability who need it. ; )
_____________________________
-Roger
I could wile away the hours
Conferrin' with the flowers
Consultin' with the rain
And my head I'd be scratchin'
While my thoughts were busy hatchin'
If I only had a brain
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 3:19:54 AM
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Doorkeeper
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
The negative is so many are retreads. The current President filled his cabinet with retreads and it worked against him. He took six years to finally take the reins. Obama may be doing the same thing. The test will be whether he acts decisively when somebody he appointed isn't getting it done.
I agree the appointments reflect his inexperience. He may feel he needs to make "safe" appointments.
This isn't about safe appointments. His appointments are very politically savvy people. Inexperience would pick people who are very knowledgable in their field but are political neophytes. Obama understands that subject matter experts can be stymied in Washington's political environment.
That's why a choice like Daschle makes sense. He knows a lot about Health Care but he isn't the best expert in the field. He is expert in dealing with Congress which is what is really needed in passing Health Care reform. They are the hurdle. Daschle will build a staff of experts and work with them to develop the best proposals. Then he gets to go to the Hill and focus on getting it passed.
To me it is as clear as day. Obama is going after his ENTIRE platform. That's why there are so many "retreads" and political veterans. He needs Generals working for him, not Lieutenants. Lieutenants would be looking to Obama for direction for every move they make. He wouldn't be able to accomplish much with this approach. Generals would take his vision, build teams, develop strategies and handle tactical situations. Obama would just make sure they stay on track with his vision. He could get a lot of what he wants done.
Then by pulling people from the center or right of center, he develops goodwill across the spectrum and reduces opposition from across the aisle. Biden is a great choice in that regard. He isn't necessarily on the team for his foreign policy background. Biden said that Obama is looking for him to help legislation get passed in Congress. Biden is very well regarded in both parties. So with this, he's casting aside partisanship and potentially some of the limelight (great Generals get their share of attention) to accoplish his agenda.
So if people are looking for change. Wait for it... He's positioning his administration to create tremendous change. Not just by having a few new faces in his cabinent, but by putting people in place that will actually get things done.
_____________________________
Doorkeeper
...I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness... - Psa 84:10
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 9:34:35 AM
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FreddieD
Posts: 299
Joined: 7/23/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
As Prince sang "We're Gonna Party Like It's 1999".
They don't call the Democratic Party a party for nothing.
FreddieD
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 10:16:39 AM
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NoShow
Posts: 454
Joined: 5/10/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Doorkeeper
This isn't about safe appointments. His appointments are very politically savvy people. Inexperience would pick people who are very knowledgable in their field but are political neophytes. Obama understands that subject matter experts can be stymied in Washington's political environment.
That's why a choice like Daschle makes sense. He knows a lot about Health Care but he isn't the best expert in the field. He is expert in dealing with Congress which is what is really needed in passing Health Care reform. They are the hurdle. Daschle will build a staff of experts and work with them to develop the best proposals. Then he gets to go to the Hill and focus on getting it passed.
To me it is as clear as day. Obama is going after his ENTIRE platform. That's why there are so many "retreads" and political veterans. He needs Generals working for him, not Lieutenants. Lieutenants would be looking to Obama for direction for every move they make. He wouldn't be able to accomplish much with this approach. Generals would take his vision, build teams, develop strategies and handle tactical situations. Obama would just make sure they stay on track with his vision. He could get a lot of what he wants done.
Then by pulling people from the center or right of center, he develops goodwill across the spectrum and reduces opposition from across the aisle. Biden is a great choice in that regard. He isn't necessarily on the team for his foreign policy background. Biden said that Obama is looking for him to help legislation get passed in Congress. Biden is very well regarded in both parties. So with this, he's casting aside partisanship and potentially some of the limelight (great Generals get their share of attention) to accoplish his agenda.
So if people are looking for change. Wait for it... He's positioning his administration to create tremendous change. Not just by having a few new faces in his cabinent, but by putting people in place that will actually get things done.
Actually, he needs soliders to get the job done. Too many cooks, too many chiefs... Obama's the "general". Your description of Generals and visions and teams isn't anything new, it's what every Administratin does. And he's doing it the same old tired and old school way.
If he had gone outisde of politics, instead of using Daschle, whatever health care program they came up with, Emmanuel could have pushed it through (as far as it's capable of going). So Daschle isn't such a great pick. Especially when you consider how complex health care is. Hilary spent over a year as First Lady and failed miserably at it.
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 12:40:36 PM
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Doorkeeper
Posts: 53
Joined: 5/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: NoShow
Actually, he needs soliders to get the job done. Too many cooks, too many chiefs... Obama's the "general". Your description of Generals and visions and teams isn't anything new, it's what every Administratin does. And he's doing it the same old tired and old school way. No. It is quite different. Beyond the rhetoric about Obama being a novice, he has taken the time to learn about these issues. If you listen closely to any in depth interviews with him, he isn't just blowing smoke. He has been talking with the top experts while he's been running for President. And he's a very smart guy. He really did go to Harvard Law and he really was a college professor. Obama is a closet policy wonk and wants to really understand these issues. But wonks ususally want to run the show being the General, and end up falling flat on their face.
I believe the most effective president in the last 60 years was Ronald Reagan. He truly led the nation. He maintained the vision of the city on the hill, inspired the nation and hired strong leaders to run the country. Delegation helped him to be free to see the overall view. However Reagan was no wonk. Over reliance on these leaders caused him to appear at times to be "asleep at the switch" (he was known to take a nap or two). It also got his administration into trouble at times. But he will be remembered as the Great American President.
Obama also has the ability to inspire people an project the vision of a great America. And he is smart enough to get into these issues and keep track of what his people are doing even when he delegates. I'm not saying that he will be as great as Reagan, but I think he'll do a better job than most people think. Certainly better than some of the more recent occupants of the position.
quote:
If he had gone outisde of politics, instead of using Daschle, whatever health care program they came up with, Emmanuel could have pushed it through (as far as it's capable of going). So Daschle isn't such a great pick. Especially when you consider how complex health care is. Hilary spent over a year as First Lady and failed miserably at it.
Hillary failed because she didn't understand at that time how to get Congress to move on these issues. Obama's learning from their mistakes. Success or failure will depend on getting Congress to pass the bills. The people in the key positions all know that. Don't be fooled. Just because they are all Democrats, doesn't mean they will agree on what they want to be passed. Then there are those who will want him to fail from BOTH parties regardless of what he proposes. They don't like the attention that he has received. Publically they may be supportive but privately they will try to drag their feet.
Rahm "Josh Lyman" Emmanuel could not push these bills through. He's seen as too combative and will tick off their friends as well as their enemies. His best role is to be the "bad cop" to Obama's "good cop". He can enforce discipline in the ranks and deflect heat from Obama if they need to get very aggresive with people.
_____________________________
Doorkeeper
...I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness... - Psa 84:10
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 12:48:29 PM
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Bas
Posts: 278
Joined: 4/15/2006
From: Washington, DC
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quote:
Funny thing happened on Nov 4th...62 million uninformed people didn't care that Mr Obama was a "newbie" and had no expertise in his field.
Yeah. I've never been particularly impressed with most Majority Opinions of Americans.
_____________________________
How can I run for office and say I want to be a weak president? We need a strong president, strong enough to resist the temptation of taking power the President shouldn’t have. -- Ron Paul
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 3:27:40 PM
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Born_Again
Posts: 208
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rhippie
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
ROFL................
Only if there is cause.
Yeah, I have no idea why anyone would think it would be any other way, unless they don't know anything about the constitution.
Jhud
You're talking with a bunch of Obama sympathizers.....do you really think they understand the Constitution? 
Oh yea, we don’t know what is constitution , lets file a law suit in supreme court about election and let the court decide who should be president. After all ACORN was dong dirty job for Obama.
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 5:36:50 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I heard on the news today that he's told his economic team to come up with a way to create jobs within 3 years. I hope he succeeds. But folks need jobs now. What will we do in the meantime? And I'm curious how he will create those jobs.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
So much for being the candidate of "CHANGE"
We are learning very quickly that “change” for President-elect Obama, is nothing more than a “change” in job title for the same old Washington insiders:
1. Senator Joe Biden is Vice President-elect
2. Former White House Chief of Staff John Podesta is co-chair of the Obama transition team
3. Tom Daschle, will reportedly be nominated Secretary of Health and Human Services.
4. Eric Holder, who advised President Clinton to give Marc Rich a get-out-of-jail-free card, is Obama’s top choice for Attorney General
5. Senator Hillary Clinton is reportedly being considered for Secretary of State
PT Barnum must be laughing right now!
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/22/2008 5:39:04 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Only if he drives this country into the ground.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Born_Again
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Only person we are missing from Clinton Administration is Kenneth Star. Lets bring him back, after all you republican wants to have another impeachment.
Which Republicans have called for an impeachment, and on what grounds?
He is not president yet and you folks are trying to take his skin off already, you telling me once he is president you wouldn’t try to impeach him?
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/23/2008 11:03:00 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 875
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
Yep,.
Cannot debate with Obama supporters because they don't know what he said he was going to do and now is not doing.
Cannot debate with Anti-Obama nuts who thought he was going to be some kind of crazy Muslim terrorist Marxist Black Panther, only to find out that no, that's not what he meant by "change".
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/23/2008 11:51:44 AM
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huangshan
Posts: 875
Joined: 8/6/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreddieD
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
As Prince sang "We're Gonna Party Like It's 1999".
They don't call the Democratic Party a party for nothing.
FreddieD
They are the do nothing party too. Remember Sept. 11, 2001?
...nine months into the Bush presidency?
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RE: Mr Obama...Where's the CHANGE? - 11/23/2008 12:49:04 PM
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StephK
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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The Clinton's didn't exactly deal with the threats that led to the attacks. 9/11 did not come about on a whim.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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