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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/10/2010 11:56:31 PM
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RYNODOG
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quote:
How is that the purpose and end result of a morally perfect God who wants us ' to be perect as our Father in heaven is perfect'? Where in other places we are told about drunkards, idolaters, perverts, thieves, etc. etc. 'not to even eat with such a person. Yet in a 'failed marriage', too bad stick it out for life. That is slavery to an evil person in an evil relationship that is fraudulent from the start in some cases. That just doesn't even sound remotely reasonable on any level!
CHAPTER 10
1 But when he persisted again, and said: "Swear by the genius of Caesar," he answered him: "If you vainly suppose that I will swear by the genius of Caesar, as you say, and pretend that you are ignorant who I am, listen plainly: I am a Christian. And if you wish to learn the doctrine of Christianity fix a day and listen." 2 The Pro-Consul said: "Persuade the people." And Polycarp said: "You I should have held worthy of discussion, for we have been taught to render honour, as is meet, if it hurt us not, to princes and authorities appointed by God. But as for those, I do not count them worthy that a defence should be made to them."
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CHAPTER 11
The Pro-consul's threats
1 And the Pro-Consul said: "I have wild beasts. I will deliver you to them, unless you repent." And he said: "Call for them, for repentance from better to worse is not allowed us; but it is good to change from evil to righteousness." 2 And he said again to him: "I will cause you to be consumed by fire, if you despise the beasts, unless you repent." But Polycarp said: "You threaten with the fire that burns for a time, and is quickly quenched, for you do not know the fire which awaits the wicked in the judgment to come and in everlasting punishment. But why are you waiting? Come, do what you will."
Polycarp ended up being stabbed in the heart as the fire would not consume his body. We can also ask "quote:
How is that the purpose and end result of a morally perfect God who wants us ' to be perect as our Father in heaven is perfect'? about Polycarp and other early Christians and even current Christians in not-so-cushy parts of the world.
It is much easier to make Christ more us-like than to let Christ make us more Him-like.
It would have been very easy for Polycarp to create a God who wouldn't have allowed him to bear such a heavy cross.
I believe it was Mother Theresa who said, "In light of heaven, the worst suffering on earth, a life full of the most atrocious tortures on earth, will be seen to be no more serious than one night in an inconvenient hotel."
How many people did Polycarp's faithfulness help lead to join him in eternal bliss? How many people does our witness help?
Please do not take this as saying something I am not saying. If you and your children are in serious danger, please separate. We can remain faithful from a safe distance and allow our Lord, who can change any heart, the time to change your spouses. When that happens, we can imitate the father and run out to meet the truly repentant prodigal son.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/11/2010 4:47:34 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huckfinn327
That trump card has a decisive overriding factor:
Greetings
Yes there is..
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the "deeds" of the law.
29 Or is He the God of the Jews only?
Is He not also the God of the Gentiles?
Yes, of the Gentiles also, Eph 2:12
THEREFORE
Since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith?
Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. = works of the law as seen spoken here
Luke 23:39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, "If You are the Christ, save...... Yourself and us." = works by the law => me, myself and I
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 11:58:41 AM
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gmcspice
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pd57
a few issues here as I've been researching some of the questions.
1. Translations to meaning in English. The word used is porniea which has many definitions in english. (1 word for word is insufficient to express meaning)
2. word NOT used is moichea. which is more precise to mean aldultery.
3. why did he use porniea & NOT moichea? (if only exception is aldultery)
4. why is translated different in almost every instance throughout the different english translations?
5. is the only exception for SEX and nothing else?
So if only for extramarital SEX, as long as a spouse does not cheat on you they are 'allowed' all kinds of abusive to the marital relationship and divorce would be a sin? Someone that holds you captive in bondage of a marriage that really is not any kind of loving relationship on any level with anyone is bound to that unrelenting, abusive, non-changing staus for life? (Hey, as long as they don't have sex with anyone else, anything goes)
How is that the purpose and end result of a morally perfect God who wants us ' to be perect as our Father in heaven is perfect'? Where in other places we are told about drunkards, idolaters, perverts, thieves, etc. etc. 'not to even eat with such a person. Yet in a 'failed marriage', too bad stick it out for life. That is slavery to an evil person in an evil relationship that is fraudulent from the start in some cases. That just doesn't even sound remotely reasonable on any level!
I agree with this 100%.
None are supposed to be in bondage because we are set free by Christ.
Jesus says we are not to put each other in bondage either. The no mdr crowd does not realize they are creating bondage by stating no divorce for any reason at all.
They feel if a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner that it was God's will since Jesus said that person could not leave and seek peace in their life.
That is just poor understanding of a very loving God, in my opinion.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 12:20:05 PM
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Showmethetruth
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quote:
They feel if a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner that it was God's will since Jesus said that person could not leave and seek peace in their life.
That is just poor understanding of a very loving God, in my opinion.
No, what you said is just poor understanding of the position or out and out intentionaly misleading. Can you quote anyone on this forum that has said "If a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner, it is God's will"? If you can provide that, shame on them for being so misguided. If not, shame on you for stooping so low in your efforts to make others look unloving.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 12:42:41 PM
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Showmethetruth
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quote:
The no mdr crowd does not realize they are creating bondage by stating no divorce for any reason at all.
There may be divorce for a number of reasons. For example, if a Christian is divorced by their spouse and they did not want to be. Another may be in a case like you mentioned where there is abuse. An abused spouse ABSOLUTELY has the right to flee real danger and find safety. The church should be ready and willing to give that safety and assistance. Granted, some fail miserably in this regard, and that is sad. However, if there needs to be legal steps taken to ensure safety, time with children, or financial needs, I think that action may be taken. It is at the point of a different marriage to someone else where Jesus says adultery begins.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 1:18:42 PM
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RYNODOG
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quote:
None are supposed to be in bondage because we are set free by Christ.
Jesus says we are not to put each other in bondage either. The no mdr crowd does not realize they are creating bondage by stating no divorce for any reason at all.
They feel if a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner that it was God's will since Jesus said that person could not leave and seek peace in their life.
That is just poor understanding of a very loving God, in my opinion.
Hello gmcspice, hope you have been well.
After reading Polycarp's story above... he could have avoided the fire. Why didn't he?
Your statement above is really not fair. I have yet to read anyone on here say that someone who is being brutally beaten should remain at home to allow herself to be beaten.
Those of us who are defending marriage on here have said that she could separate and remain faithful to her vows and choose to love with a love that always hopes. She can choose to believe in a God who can change any heart, can convert any sinner, can change any Saul into a Paul. She can choose to forgive her spouse with a forgiveness that includes openness to reconciliation upon his true repentance. Just as God's forgiveness of us always does.
Hopefully this clears that misunderstanding up.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 1:33:16 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
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quote:
However, if there needs to be legal steps taken to ensure safety, time with children, or financial needs, I think that action may be taken. It is at the point of a different marriage to someone else where Jesus says adultery begins.
Showmetruth,
I could not agree more with your last couple of posts except for the last sentence here.
I too have defended marriage (I now think mistakenly) by pointing out that another marriage is where the adultery begins. The adultery, however, usually has began long before the second marriage. It begins, as Jesus tells us, in the heart. It is not Christ-like for me to divorce my wife and date someone else. Perhaps I rationalize it is okay because I haven't "remarried." But if my heart is being given to that new woman then I am committing adultery (in the heart.) And if her heart is being given to me then she is coveting another woman's husband.
Maybe Huck has some insight on how adultery used to be considered by Christians compared to our modern limitation, or reduction, to the mere physical act.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 1:39:31 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
They feel if a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner that it was God's will since Jesus said that person could not leave and seek peace in their life.
That is just poor understanding of a very loving God, in my opinion.
No, what you said is just poor understanding of the position or out and out intentionaly misleading. Can you quote anyone on this forum that has said "If a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner, it is God's will"? If you can provide that, shame on them for being so misguided. If not, shame on you for stooping so low in your efforts to make others look unloving.
Greetings
quote:
Can you quote anyone on this forum that has said "If a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner, it is God's will"?
gm said that here...
quote:
None are supposed to be in bondage because we are set free by Christ.
Jesus says we are not to put each other in bondage either.
The no mdr crowd are creating bondage by stating no divorce for any reason at all.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 3:19:14 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
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Thanks, LG. Not what I had in mind...but thanks
Bryan, you are correct. I was referring to the "divorce and marrying another" verses, but it is clear that if someone finds another that they desire to be with more than their spouse, either before or after a divorce, that is adultery based on Jesus in Matthew 5:28 saying adultery includes desires for another, not just the physical relations. In most wedding ceremonies, they have vowed to God that they would remain loyal to that spouse and forsake all others as long as they are both alive, no matter how bad it gets. If one is divorced, even the "innocent party" is still held to their vows, even though it did get as bad as it could get.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 3:43:00 PM
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Phos
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Remarriage after divorce?
Always a sin. Always damaging to the community.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 4:41:46 PM
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pd57
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Well, i just wonder which Word you all are reading!
Divorce is allowed under the Law. That would free up the divorced couple to remarry as is in The Law!
The Law has NOT changed has it? Who authorized the change? When? Where?
I do not see it!
Jesus did NOT see it!
Paul did NOT see it!
Where has the LAW re Divorce been changed???????
Lets get into the meat of this sola scriptura, line upon line. Let the bible PROVE itself. Hold fast to which is good. There is no other outside opinion of men needed to translate the insprired Word!!! Let His Word define and explain itself! let us HARMONIZE all scripture for True understanding, AMEN!
Peace and Love.....................
< Message edited by pd57 -- 8/12/2010 5:08:52 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 5:43:22 PM
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Phos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pd57
Divorce is allowed under the Law
The OT says God hates divorce. Don't you think doing anything God hates is a sin?
Jesus said anyone who divorces for any reason other than spousal unfaithfulness sins. The faithfulness itself a sin and constructive divorce, which is the only reason that Jesus makes this exception.
Jesus explained that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people. In other words, it was still a sin, but allowing it was a practical concession. But, you take up with the Pharisees who were Christ's enemies.
Even if the Bible said nothing about Divorce, it would still be an obvious sin to anyone with the law written in their hearts.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 6:03:39 PM
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pd57
Posts: 166
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Phos
quote:
ORIGINAL: pd57
Divorce is allowed under the Law
The OT says God hates divorce. Don't you think doing anything God hates is a sin?
Jesus said anyone who divorces for any reason other than spousal unfaithfulness sins. The faithfulness itself a sin and constructive divorce, which is the only reason that Jesus makes this exception.
Jesus explained that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people. In other words, it was still a sin, but allowing it was a practical concession. But, you take up with the Pharisees who were Christ's enemies.
Even if the Bible said nothing about Divorce, it would still be an obvious sin to anyone with the law written in their hearts.
quote:
The OT says God hates divorce.
Are you referring to Mal. 2:16?
What exactly does that say?
But I am a Pharisee? Whoa! Best know what they were asking and what their plans were in phrasing the question to Christ as they did.
We'll take it 1 @ a time here so as not to get confused again! OK
Thanks!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/12/2010 6:06:53 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pd57
Divorce is allowed under the Law. That would free up the divorced couple to remarry as is in The Law!
Malachi 2
13And this have ye done again, covering the altar of the LORD with tears, with weeping, and with crying out, insomuch that he regardeth not the offering any more, or receiveth it with good will at your hand.
14Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
15And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
16For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that He hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously.
17Ye have wearied the LORD with your words. Yet ye say, Wherein have we wearied him? When ye say, Every one that doeth evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and he delighteth in them; or, Where is the God of judgment?
This HARDLY sound like God was OK with it.
quote:
The Law has NOT changed has it? Who authorized the change? When? Where?
Luke 16
15 And He said to them, “You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.
16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. 17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one tittle of the law to fail.
18 “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.
Since Jesus, the old covenant ended (again, a covenant that could only have ended by a death) and a new, better one was put into place
quote:
Where has the LAW re Divorce been changed???????
Matthew 5
31It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
This seems to be a change from the way they used to do things
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 7:16:03 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
They feel if a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner that it was God's will since Jesus said that person could not leave and seek peace in their life.
That is just poor understanding of a very loving God, in my opinion.
No, what you said is just poor understanding of the position or out and out intentionaly misleading. Can you quote anyone on this forum that has said "If a person is in an abusive relationship and they are killed by their partner, it is God's will"? If you can provide that, shame on them for being so misguided. If not, shame on you for stooping so low in your efforts to make others look unloving.
Not stooping low, just calling it as I see it. You side would rather see that happen than see them leave be safe and in a loving relationship. You say "oh please leave so that you and the kids are safe ... BUT YOU CAN"T GET MARRIED AGAIN!"
You may not like what I said, but 1+1=2.
You tell those who did this and got married again that they are in continuous sin.
Tell me it isn't true. That you have not said this.
And I will recant.
quote:
There may be divorce for a number of reasons. For example, if a Christian is divorced by their spouse and they did not want to be. Another may be in a case like you mentioned where there is abuse. An abused spouse ABSOLUTELY has the right to flee real danger and find safety. The church should be ready and willing to give that safety and assistance. Granted, some fail miserably in this regard, and that is sad. However, if there needs to be legal steps taken to ensure safety, time with children, or financial needs, I think that action may be taken. It is at the point of a different marriage to someone else where Jesus says adultery begins.
There it is again.
Do you think he intended it to be used to keep people in bondage?
Do think it would be used for people like this to be called a permemant sinner never able to be forgiven because they got married again so they could help take care of their children, not go around fornicating constantly and etc.. many reason to get married again. Yet you set there and say that person cannot be forgiven of it unless they divorce.
That, my friend, IS BONDAGE!
By the way, Show, the adultery is committed by the person who sinned within the first marriage. Not when the innocent person who left gets married again.
Bryan, please don't bother. You and I have went round and round and I still believe with all my heart that your stance is the wrong one. So, don't bother addressing me anymore. It is not going to work.
You are creating bondage that Christ died and rose again to get us out of!
So who has committed the greater sin?
The one who created the bondage or the one who is trying to get out of it?
All of you answer this one question with a just a yes or no.
Do you believe that a person who is married again cannot be forgiven of their sin? I certainly do. And they don't have to do anything to get that salvation either. Just believe and NOT commit the sin of DIVORCE again like you are telling them to do. That is sin in it's self.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 7:22:20 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
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quote:
Since Jesus, the old covenant ended (again, a covenant that could only have ended by a death) and a new, better one was put into place
Show, the New Covenant is Not with the flesh. It is with the spirit.
Jesus nailed the flesh to the cross. What was left was the Spirit. We worship in spirit and in truth not through fleshly things. That includes marriage.
Fleshly things cannot please God. Yet here is an entire blog dedicated to the flesh. Something that is never going to be perfect as God is and it's never going to please him.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 7:31:12 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Phos
quote:
ORIGINAL: pd57
Divorce is allowed under the Law
The OT says God hates divorce. Don't you think doing anything God hates is a sin?
There is no relation between the 2 in the first place
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 7:59:32 AM
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car2nist
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quote:
Jesus explained that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people. In other words, it was still a sin, but allowing it was a practical concession. But, you take up with the Pharisees who were Christ's enemies.
God made a concession to sin? Say it isn't so.
When I read Leviticus I find reference to women being divorced, married slaves released, etc. It seems it was more than a concession. I suppose this is like saying that gluttony is a sin but God makes a concession for it seeing as how so many Christians don't take care of their physical bodies like they should. What other sins do we think God has to make concessions for?
This is why Jesus shed His blood. There are too many sins that we all fall at.
That being said, of course God hates divorce. It is painful all around. He also hates the sins that make living together as husband and wife impossible. Of course it would be better if we all lived perfectly as we should, but then there would be no need for our Lord's sacrifice.
_____________________________
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 9:09:15 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
quote:
Jesus explained that Moses allowed divorce because of the hardness of the people. In other words, it was still a sin, but allowing it was a practical concession. But, you take up with the Pharisees who were Christ's enemies.
God made a concession to sin? Say it isn't so.
When I read Leviticus I find reference to women being divorced, married slaves released, etc. It seems it was more than a concession. I suppose this is like saying that gluttony is a sin but God makes a concession for it seeing as how so many Christians don't take care of their physical bodies like they should. What other sins do we think God has to make concessions for?
This is why Jesus shed His blood. There are too many sins that we all fall at.
That being said, of course God hates divorce. It is painful all around. He also hates the sins that make living together as husband and wife impossible. Of course it would be better if we all lived perfectly as we should, but then there would be no need for our Lord's sacrifice.
Amen, Car, Amen.
Like I have said before, I don't believe Christians should be divorcing. BUT When in sin, what do we expect?
If this were simple, Christ would not have had to come and shed his blood, nail the flesh to cross and rise again to give us eternal life and forgiveness of our sins.
He even went further and told us to forgive each other or we won't be forgiven. Now whether that means divorce and marrying again or reconciling, we still have to forgive.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 12:38:21 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
Since Jesus, the old covenant ended (again, a covenant that could only have ended by a death) and a new, better one was put into place
Show, the New Covenant is Not with the flesh. It is with the spirit.
Jesus nailed the flesh to the cross. What was left was the Spirit. We worship in spirit and in truth not through fleshly things. That includes marriage.
Fleshly things cannot please God. Yet here is an entire blog dedicated to the flesh. Something that is never going to be perfect as God is and it's never going to please him.
gm, YOU are the one saying it is impossible to live without another spouse because they would have to commit fornication, etc to satisfy their desires. Tell me that's not fleshly. Jesus said some might have to remain unmarried for the Kingdom of God's sake. That is done only by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit. So tell me again, which side of this argument is fleshly and which is Spirit?
Jesus Christ did not die so you and I could get be married over and over until we were happy. He died as a punishment for our sins so we would not have to face the punishment we deserve. What He asks from us in return is obedience and love. He said divorce and remarriage was adultery, so by doing those things we are committing the very same sins he asks us not to commit; direct DISobedience To brush it aside by saying, "Jesus paid the price for my sins so it doesn't matter" is WRONG.
quote:
By the way, Show, the adultery is committed by the person who sinned within the first marriage. Not when the innocent person who left gets married again.
Lets paraphrase Matthew 5:32 and see what it says:
But I say unto you, That if Joe shall put away Mary, saving for the cause of fornication, Joe causes Mary to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry Mary after she is divorced committeth adultery.
So if Mary did not commit fornication, and Joe divorced her anyway, and Mary, the innocent party, got married to someone else, Jesus said it was adultery. That is 180* from what you believe.
quote:
All of you answer this one question with a just a yes or no.
Do you believe that a person who is married again cannot be forgiven of their sin?
ABSOLUTELY. Any sin can be forgiven when we confess them and forsake them.
Proverbs 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 1:16:01 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
Since Jesus, the old covenant ended (again, a covenant that could only have ended by a death) and a new, better one was put into place
Show, the New Covenant is Not with the flesh. It is with the spirit.
Jesus nailed the flesh to the cross. What was left was the Spirit. We worship in spirit and in truth not through fleshly things. That includes marriage.
Fleshly things cannot please God. Yet here is an entire blog dedicated to the flesh. Something that is never going to be perfect as God is and it's never going to please him.
gm, YOU are the one saying it is impossible to live without another spouse because they would have to commit fornication, etc to satisfy their desires. Tell me that's not fleshly. Jesus said some might have to remain unmarried for the Kingdom of God's sake. That is done only by the grace and power of the Holy Spirit. So tell me again, which side of this argument is fleshly and which is Spirit?
I did not say a person could not live without a spouse. I have always said it is a choice. You condemn the choice.
quote:
Jesus Christ did not die so you and I could get be married over and over until we were happy. He died as a punishment for our sins so we would not have to face the punishment we deserve. What He asks from us in return is obedience and love. He said divorce and remarriage was adultery, so by doing those things we are committing the very same sins he asks us not to commit; direct DISobedience To brush it aside by saying, "Jesus paid the price for my sins so it doesn't matter" is WRONG.
Nope, he sure didn't. BUT He did so that we could have a second chance and forgiveness. I believe it is Peter who asks Jesus how many times should we forgive a person. I believe Jesus. I won't condemn them no matter how many times they have been married. I pray for them and ask God to help them get right instead of them continuing to commit sin and divorce.
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By the way, Show, the adultery is committed by the person who sinned within the first marriage. Not when the innocent person who left gets married again.
Lets paraphrase Matthew 5:32 and see what it says:
But I say unto you, That if Joe shall put away Mary, saving for the cause of fornication, Joe causes Mary to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry Mary after she is divorced committeth adultery.
So if Mary did not commit fornication, and Joe divorced her anyway, and Mary, the innocent party, got married to someone else, Jesus said it was adultery. That is 180* from what you believe.
I never said people could divorce for any reason. You just did.
So, NO, I am not disagreeing with the text. Can Mary be forgiven if she does marry again? Yes. does the bible say to divorce to get that forgiveness, no it does not.
But YOU say it does.
quote:
quote:
All of you answer this one question with a just a yes or no.
Do you believe that a person who is married again cannot be forgiven of their sin?
ABSOLUTELY. Any sin can be forgiven when we confess them and forsake them.
Proverbs 28:13 He that covers his sins shall not prosper: but whoever confesses and forsakes them shall have mercy.
Yep, but divorce does not show true repentance like you are teaching here.
You are telling people to SIN to cover a sin. Exactly what you just posted in proverbs. The first half, in fact.
Actually to show repentance, the person would stay as they are and make that marriage work.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 1:57:14 PM
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pd57
Posts: 166
Joined: 8/10/2010
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You know after looking thru this thread and what has been already discussed I guess any furthering of the contention, argument is futile & NON- productive. Each reads into simple words and their own meaning what THEY seem to want it to say and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change ones mind and to preconceived ideas or traditions. They make the simple complex, twist the meanings of words from 1 instance to another to their own destruction. Let their blood be upon them. To teach others likewise to do so is the greater sin. This issue will not be resolved now, but will in the Kingdom when ALL know His Truth without the "deceiver' able to twist and '...change the Word of God for a LIE....'
God is NOT the author of confusion. He does not require extra or higher education or those of GREAT intellect to be able to discern and divide rightly his word. It is simple if one asks of Him to open his heart & mind to HIS truth, not mans. To do otherwise makes God a liar, the author of confusion and his Word to no effect. Like the proverbial ' house of cards' it all comes to nothing. We cannot change the past, nor the meanings of words in Hebrew or Greek as they were used in the "CONTEXT" of the passages or chapters or letters of the epistles of PAUL { BIG CLUE HERE } that they are written.
Some will remain blinded to truth and that is God's will @ this time as we are told in the Word. We shalll all come to His Way and all knowledge will be given to us in that time, HIS time. As He sees fit, to His pleasure. In the mean time let us Not contend treacherously { ANOTHER CLUE} with one another. Its not an end to the means for now. Let each 'rightly divde the Word so each is prepared for all good works.' Let each be convinced in his own mind therefore!
Nothing but the Word is needed to discern and define itself. However, one must go to the original Textus Receptus or Septuigant and be willing to SEE with New eyes what was said then & there in those passages in the context of the culture & people's towhom it was given @ that time to understand what the author [HOLY SPIRIT} intends to be understood. Study with an open heart and open mind asking God to show you THE TRUTH!
His everlasting,unchanging, TRUTH!
God Bless, peace, shalom and the Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
< Message edited by pd57 -- 8/13/2010 2:09:53 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 4:19:19 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
I did not say a person could not live without a spouse. I have always said it is a choice. You condemn the choice. I don't have any power to condemn, but I believe the bible does. Murder is a choice, fornication is a choice, etc. Any sin we commit is a choice. Some of those choices are condemned in the bible.quote:
Nope, he sure didn't. BUT He did so that we could have a second chance and forgiveness A second chance and forgiveness so we could be with Him, yes.quote:
I never said people could divorce for any reason. You just did.
So, NO, I am not disagreeing with the text. Can Mary be forgiven if she does marry again? Yes. does the bible say to divorce to get that forgiveness, no it does not. But YOU say it does. The point is you tell people it is OK to go ahead and commit the sin (in advance) because we will be forgiven anyway.
quote:
Actually to show repentance, the person would stay as they are and make that marriage work. So is there any other time we can say, after we realize something is a sin, "I'm sorry, God. I didn't realize this was wrong. I'm not going to change anything, but please forgive me."
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/13/2010 8:23:11 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pd57
You know after looking thru this thread and what has been already discussed I guess any furthering of the contention, argument is futile & NON- productive. Each reads into simple words and their own meaning what THEY seem to want it to say and no amount of evidence to the contrary will change ones mind and to preconceived ideas or traditions. They make the simple complex, twist the meanings of words from 1 instance to another to their own destruction. Let their blood be upon them. To teach others likewise to do so is the greater sin. This issue will not be resolved now, but will in the Kingdom when ALL know His Truth without the "deceiver' able to twist and '...change the Word of God for a LIE....'
God is NOT the author of confusion. He does not require extra or higher education or those of GREAT intellect to be able to discern and divide rightly his word. It is simple if one asks of Him to open his heart & mind to HIS truth, not mans. To do otherwise makes God a liar, the author of confusion and his Word to no effect. Like the proverbial ' house of cards' it all comes to nothing. We cannot change the past, nor the meanings of words in Hebrew or Greek as they were used in the "CONTEXT" of the passages or chapters or letters of the epistles of PAUL { BIG CLUE HERE } that they are written.
Some will remain blinded to truth and that is God's will @ this time as we are told in the Word. We shalll all come to His Way and all knowledge will be given to us in that time, HIS time. As He sees fit, to His pleasure. In the mean time let us Not contend treacherously { ANOTHER CLUE} with one another. Its not an end to the means for now. Let each 'rightly divde the Word so each is prepared for all good works.' Let each be convinced in his own mind therefore!
Nothing but the Word is needed to discern and define itself. However, one must go to the original Textus Receptus or Septuigant and be willing to SEE with New eyes what was said then & there in those passages in the context of the culture & people's towhom it was given @ that time to understand what the author [HOLY SPIRIT} intends to be understood. Study with an open heart and open mind asking God to show you THE TRUTH!
His everlasting,unchanging, TRUTH!
God Bless, peace, shalom and the Love of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greetings
quote:
To teach others likewise to do so is the greater sin. This issue will not be resolved now, but will in the Kingdom when ALL know His Truth without the "deceiver' able to twist and '...change the Word of God for a LIE....'
Can one give an example?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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