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very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 10:30:41 AM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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My son Jack was visiting with some friends before a football game a few weeks ago. There was a whole big group of them. He called me from his game and said there was a problem. When he was in this group of kids some adults came up that were smoking. Right at that time the principal saw them. (this has all been verified) So Jack gets to the game and he pulls Jack aside and says he cannot play for several games because he was smoking. Jack told the coach he was not so the coach told him to go and talk to the principal about it. Jack did and the principal told him I know but you have be careful who you hang out with while wearing the school's jersey. So up to this point I am ok with everything. Now gets to the point I am mad. There were several other football players in that group wearing their jerseys yet nothing was done to them. A different football player was caught smoking pot but all he got was a talking to before going out to play. Jack was sick in bed with a 102 fever so I did not let him go to football. He was pulled from all his positions because of that. Yet a varsity kid skipped pratice yet played half the game. I am so mad because it seem just because my son is a freshmen and not on varsity yet they think it is ok to dump on him yet the varsity players are allowed to do whatever escpecially now that they are in the play offs. Jack was so mad he quit football all together. This from a kid who loved football a month ago.
To make matters worse I see this going on in the classroom as well. This kid does not have parents that are going to make a stick so we can do whatever. Every year I have to make a point to pull him out of the slow classes even though his grades are fine in normal. I am so sick of this small town bologna. I even found out his F in english was because he was sick and they not only did not let him make up his work but he failed a test that he had no idea they were taking that day since he was home sick. I did not believe him at first so I punished him only to find out weeks later that the teacher is known for doing that. I am so close to pulling my son out and going back to homeschooling. The only thing stopping me is Jack loves seeing his friends every day. He leaves early so he can "hang out" before school. I really want to pull him though but I am scared of having an angry teenager at home.
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<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 11:27:02 AM
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pbaribeault
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quote:
There were several other football players in that group wearing their jerseys yet nothing was done to them. It seems to me that if your son was approached in private, and your son was able to talk his way out of a proposed suspension, then the other players likely received the same treatment -- or else your son's defense got them thinking that the accusation could not be substantiated, so they didn't bother going any further down the list of other players who were in the same situation.
quote:
A different football player was caught smoking pot but all he got was a talking to before going out to play. You'll have to tell me about the relative timing of the 2 events. Is it possible that they did this 'just talking' strategy, then they had a discussion among themselves, decided things were getting out of hand and resolved to take a firmer line in the future... the future harder line being their overreaction in the situation with your son? I know it seems unjust, but if they learn from one experience and apply a different strategy to the next incident, that's pretty normal. It's how good and fair policies eventually develop.
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Jack was sick in bed with a 102 fever so I did not let him go to football. He was pulled from all his positions because of that. Yet a varsity kid skipped practice yet played half the game. Again, we need details. Is your son in the skills-development phase of training, maybe who really needs to practice what exactly will be done prior to a game? Does 'varsity' mean a skilled and experienced older player? Perhaps the coaches are looking to his future by increased play-time for public exposure, rather than skill-building and dedication-enhancement at the earlier stages.
In any case, the idea that smoking (if he had been smoking) or missing practice (for any reason) results in non-play is perfectly just, and probably what you both agreed to. If the coaches want to make exceptions for other players, whether out of selfish ambition to win, or out of focusing on different things at different stages -- what is that to either of you?
It reminds me of the parable of the workers hired at different times of the day, but those who worked shorter got the same amount, and those who had worked the full day thought that it was not fair. The questions asked are along the lines of, "Didn't you agree to work for a denarius?" and "Isn't my money my own to spend as I like?" and "What is it to you if I choose to be generous?"
Sometimes you Americans need to be reminded that sports activities are recreational in nature. If he's not happy on a team that works this way, why should he not quit and choose some other recreational activity that is less win-at-all-costs?
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I see this going on in the classroom as well. This kid does not have parents that are going to make a stick so we can do whatever. Every year I have to make a point to pull him out of the slow classes even though his grades are fine in normal. This does surprise me. Why is it that they think he belongs in slow classes? What are their criteria? Does getting F's in regular classes effect where he is placed the following year? Does he seem like he has to really keep his nose to the grindstone to make average grades and keep up wit the class? Do you keep his nose to the grindstone? Is he showing signs of stress? What ideas do you find that you hold about the usefulness and suitableness of 'slow' classes?
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I even found out his F in English was because he was sick and they not only did not let him make up his work but he failed a test that he had no idea they were taking that day since he was home sick.
BTW this sounds like high school to me, so my comments reflect that idea. In high school, nobody cares why you missed classes or if you are out of your depth or surprised by returning into deep water after an illness. The test finds out what you know. If you don't know it, you don't pass. If you don't pass, you haven't met the course requirements and you fail the class. (Is Jack your first high schooler?) They may do something to mitigate this cold hard reality if either you or your son ask them to, give good reasons and sufficient time for alternative plans to be thought through and made... but they are not obligated to.
That kind of thinking is for middle school -- where they help you out and try to make things fair and give kids another chance. In HS, as in college/university, you miss what you miss, and if it sinks you, you try the course again next semester when your health is stronger.
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I am so close to pulling my son out and going back to homeschooling. The only thing stopping me is Jack loves seeing his friends every day. He leaves early so he can "hang out" before school. I really want to pull him though but I am scared of having an angry teenager at home. You may want to discuss the homeschooling option with him. You both seem emotionally unready to deal with the idea of cold-hard school. Homeschooling doesn't have to be cold and hard, and it might work better. BUT if you choose to leave him in high school for the sake of the wider experience, it's best for both of you if you acknowledge that unkind, unfair and unfortunate events are pretty normal. Coping with strength and a level head, letting some things go... is far better than anger for both of you.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 11:55:41 AM
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deedeeowens
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I can understand your anger and frustration in observing how others were treated compared to how your son was treated. This is a teachable moment and your son will be observing how you deal with it. I don't think pulling him back out of school is the answer because it would teach him to isolate himself when things get tough. I suggest arranging a meeting with school officials and making your point with them. Have prayer before and after the meeting, and reflect Christ with you attitude toward these people. Even if things still aren't fair, at least you honored Christ and taught your son to respond in love in spite of the circumstances.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 12:44:17 PM
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zoebob
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quote:
BTW this sounds like high school to me, so my comments reflect that idea. In high school, nobody cares why you missed classes or if you are out of your depth or surprised by returning into deep water after an illness. The test finds out what you know. If you don't know it, you don't pass. If you don't pass, you haven't met the course requirements and you fail the class. (Is Jack your first high schooler?) They may do something to mitigate this cold hard reality if either you or your son ask them to, give good reasons and sufficient time for alternative plans to be thought through and made... but they are not obligated to.
I have never heard of this in the high school level. You have to bring a note of explanation when you miss school. If you are sick this is an "excused absense" and you are allowed to make up work. Unfortunately, in many schools you are even allowed to make up work for an unexcused absense: playing hooky.
At the college level you generally know when an exam will be well in advance. If you are so sick that you can't make it out of bed for the hour or so it takes to come to class some professors will let you make it up, especially if you contact them immediately and explain.
There is a difference in high school and college though: in high school you are often dependent on someone else to get to school and attendence is generally an all or nothing deal. You can't come in just to take a test. Where as in college each class is it's own thing and you can attend some and skip another in the same day.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 12:49:13 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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quote:
It seems to me that if your son was approached in private, and your son was able to talk his way out of a proposed suspension, then the other players likely received the same treatment -- or else your son's defense got them thinking that the accusation could not be substantiated, so they didn't bother going any further down the list of other players who were in the same situation.
No he was not able to talk his way out. Jack was the only freshmen there who was not varsity so they did not need him on the football field to win the game so he was singled out. I was really shrugging my shoulders at Jack about it until I learned that there were other football players in the group yet they were not even talked to. I know this because one of the boys is a good friend of Jacks. He told me that no one said one word to him. He happens to be a very good football player and very much needed for the team to win.
The kid who was caught smoking pot happened a couple of weeks earlier. He is varsity so I found it odd that a kid caught actually doing something wrong instead of just standing in a group of friends is allowed a free pass simply because he needs to be on the team to win.
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This does surprise me. Why is it that they think he belongs in slow classes? What are their criteria? Does getting F's in regular classes effect where he is placed the following year? Does he seem like he has to really keep his nose to the grindstone to make average grades and keep up wit the class? Do you keep his nose to the grindstone? Is he showing signs of stress? What ideas do you find that you hold about the usefulness and suitableness of 'slow' classes?
This is the first time he has had an F in anything. Before this his lowest grade was a C. English is not his best class, that is usually his C class. What is laughable is that reading is always the class they are trying to slip him in the slow class for and he always made a solid A in that class. This year I did not see reading on his list of classes so they tried to slip in him in a slow math class. Again Math is a solid A for him. Interesting thing is when I was talking to another mom who put her child in PS after homeschooling she had the same problem.
quote:
BTW this sounds like high school to me, so my comments reflect that idea. In high school, nobody cares why you missed classes or if you are out of your depth or surprised by returning into deep water after an illness. The test finds out what you know. If you don't know it, you don't pass. If you don't pass, you haven't met the course requirements and you fail the class. (Is Jack your first high schooler?) They may do something to mitigate this cold hard reality if either you or your son ask them to, give good reasons and sufficient time for alternative plans to be thought through and made... but they are not obligated to.
Yeah I also noticed how nothing but an illness is an excused absence in high school. I feel bad for the kids who had a close family member die. That week they went to teh funeral in another state was unexcused so they got o's on everything.
quote:
You may want to discuss the homeschooling option with him. You both seem emotionally unready to deal with the idea of cold-hard school. Homeschooling doesn't have to be cold and hard, and it might work better. BUT if you choose to leave him in high school for the sake of the wider experience, it's best for both of you if you acknowledge that unkind, unfair and unfortunate events are pretty normal.
That is what my son tells me. But I am a mom who see's my son being held to a different standard then the other kids are and it makes me mad. My son does not have a problem with it , do.quote:
< Message edited by Leslie_JnJs_mom -- 11/12/2008 1:02:38 PM >
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<------- Jessica and I had so much fun with grandma!
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 12:54:41 PM
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zoebob
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Around here funerals are an excused absense. You are also allowed a certain number of personal days at some schools so that if you have an out of town family wedding or something that you need to attend and you let them know ahead of time you can go. The school I work at allows this. If you are doing something as a family you can be excused but you have to make up all the work before you go.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 1:06:46 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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Not here. Illness or a doctors visit are the only two excused absence. I found that out through somone else's frustration so I looked it up in the handbook. Sure enough illness and doctors appointment are the only two excused absences.
Our school does not take notes either. A parent has to call. They are only allowed to miss 7 days before a parent has to go before the school board to explain why.
Most of this is new this year due to a new superintendent and principal.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 8:01:28 PM
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pbaribeault
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quote:
But I am a mom who see's my son being held to a different standard then the other kids are and it makes me mad.
(Aside from the slow classes issue) Isn't your son being held to a better standard? Aren't they doing him a good service, treating him justly and in accordance with rules that are good and ought to be applied to everyone? It's the others that are being treated unjustly -- it's a bad thing when they let their behaviour slide in order to win games.
Don't you want your son to learn that sometimes in life there are cold-hard consequences even for things that aren't directly his fault? Don't you want him to learn that sometimes even a good excuse won't rewind time and give him a chance to make things all better? Isn't it a good idea to teach him to count the cost before he makes a choice, then pay the penalty for doing what he has chosen to do? Don't you want him learning to be pro-active in his education and his relationship with course requirements and grades? (Like calling someone while he was sick to see what he needed to do to keep up and stay test-able.)
Prejudice against former homeschoolers sounds like its quantifiable in your situation. I'm sorry for that. It's not fair -- how are you teaching your son to react to prejudice in places of authority?
quote:
No he was not able to talk his way out.
(Sorry about misunderstanding -- you are saying that your son was suspended from play, even after the conversation with the principle, simply because he had been near smokers? Or that by the time it was all talked out he had already missed playing a game or more?)
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/12/2008 8:56:44 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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quote:
(Sorry about misunderstanding -- you are saying that your son was suspended from play, even after the conversation with the principle, simply because he had been near smokers? Or that by the time it was all talked out he had already missed playing a game or more?)
Yes he was still suspended even after talking to the principal. The principal also knew that Jack was not smoking but adult parents who came to talk to their kids. That is what I am mad about. I know some of my sons friends parents smoke how is a kid suppose to avoid that? I am not over the top mad though otherwise I would be at the school pulling him out instead of venting here where I can get level heads who are not involved to give me their opinion.
Yes I do want him held to a high standard. My problem is I am a mom who sees their child who had his feeling and his sense of what is fair hurt. When I see that my mommy bear syndrome come out.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 9:29:53 AM
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Row1
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"He leaves early so he can "hang out" before school."
--this is a good sign to let you know that maybe he should stay in school.
you will always find injustice to fight as long as your child is in public school. however, you will never reform the school. As sson as you manage to perfect one teacher, or counselor or principal or coach, you will discover that ther is another one who falls short of perfection.
in the meantime, you can focus on rasing your family.
your son made a commitment to a team. he doesn't decide who plays when, and neither do you. if he gets yanked, he gets yanked. you don't quit because things are not going your way, or because there was one or two examples of unfairness.
i haven't yet run into the same thing. but my stepdaughter would get comfortable watching disney channel after school, and come up with some excuse for not going to tennis.
but she had a commitment with this tennis instructor, so my ruling was that we were going to pay either way - we destroyed that tennis coach's ability to make a living for that specific prime hour of coaching from someone else. once i decided that, my wife then found the parent-guts to make her poor, tortured child (sarcasm) get off the couch and get to the tennis lesson.
life is not fair.
stand by your commitments.
--the only thing left to do is to pursue any possible normal course of action for changing the football decision based on a false accusation. If you don't get your way, carry on wit the commitment o the team.
---on the school/test issue: if this school is like this, you may need to spend a couple years being really on-top of class schedule, assignments, etc. - and have very consistent contact with the teachers. Weekly if not every couple of days when things get dicey. believe me we have gone through this one with a lot of agony - getting on top of the classes so the occasional problems did not derail everything.
My stepdaughter is a junior now, and is generally totally INDEPENDENT regarding school. We monitor her very little. She loosk farther down the scedule than a day or two, and plans accordingly.
You have two lessons to teach your son: pick ONE:
1. despite all unfairness, etc., he should figure out a way to succeed in any learning challenge [turn the focus on yourself, not others, when a learning experience is unfair]
OR
2. fight unfairness in school whenever it is detected. Get mom's help. [look for faults in others when things don't go your way.]
BTW: nearly all learning experiences are unfair.
Plan 2. will develop a kid who is a complainer, a whiner, a tattletale, and who will not understand why the world does not work his way, and so will end up depressed.
Plan 1. will help develop a kid who can succeed in the face of adversity and wear his conquest over unfairness like a badge of honor.
We have plan 2 happening with a high scooler in our family. She has been in multiple schools because they are all inferior, unfair, etc. The child is depressed and is not good at making friends. Wow. Was it worth it? No. just let the kid have some frineds, and deal with a lousy school system like the rest of us. God will watch over him.
This is a parenting test. It will be repeated until you get the right answer. In college, I had a work/study job in the dean's office - with these parents coming up to fight on behalf of their adult children because something was unfair. It was sad to see.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 9:42:59 AM
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zoebob
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Row, you make it sound like one should never try to fight or confront unfairness. Is that what you are saying. Or that one should never enlist the help of others?
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 10:49:22 AM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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Jr Varsity is all done playing right now anyway. I did have a nice teachable moment with my son about this anyways. Living with the choices he makes. You see it looks like our school will go on to state playoffs. Jack put in 3 hard years of work for football and it is now all wasted. All the getting up at 5 in the morning for pratice and going to weights after school. Here is the one thing he worked for and he threw it away. I told him if he really wanted to be done he could since Jr Varsity was done but I encouraged him to hold out until the end of the playing season because if he quit there was no going back. So this summer when football camp starts and the kids get excited about football this year instead of Jack getting the chance to start varsity he is stuck since he quit.
You see the venting I come on line to do is not what I tell my son. I can come on here and talk about how mad I am but I tell my son that life is not always fair. Even Jack just shrugs about it all and says thats life. Like I said earlier I am the one who is mad.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 12:45:18 PM
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lexie
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quote:
I even found out his F in english was because he was sick and they not only did not let him make up his work but he failed a test that he had no idea they were taking that day since he was home sick.
Does your son not have a friend in his classes who informs him of what he missed in class while he was away? When we were in high school, it was expected that if you missed a class you still knew what was going on in the classroom. At the beginning of the year people always made agreements to let each other know what they missed when they were gone.
I remember being sick for 3 weeks in high school, and still doing the homework every single day because a friend called me to let me know what it was. When I came back at the end of the the 3 weeks, I was still up to date with the class.
This is also something you may want to discuss with the teacher. My husband teaches high school and can tell many stories of students who were away and came back claiming they couldn't write a test because they had missed class. He makes the students write the test anyway, but is willing to hear out the student and parent afterward. The problem is, so many kids just skip the classes or fake sick when they don't want to write a test, and think they can get out of it afterwards, and I'm sure teachers are sick of dealing with that.
I know you were venting here and it's completely understandable. My father has been a teacher for over 30 years and he is the first to say that high school has changed so much over the years, and that there are different standards (good and bad). He always says that parents should understand that high school is very different from when they were there, and the best thing they can do is keep in contact with their kids teachers.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 1:56:43 PM
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zoebob
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When I was in school the rule was you had the number of days you were out plus one to make up the work. ie. if you were out Monday, you were expected to turn everything in and be caught up by the end of Wed. IF you are truly sick you aren't necessarily well enough to learn the material on your own so you are all caught up when you get back.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 2:06:26 PM
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kohls356
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
When I was in school the rule was you had the number of days you were out plus one to make up the work. ie. if you were out Monday, you were expected to turn everything in and be caught up by the end of Wed. IF you are truly sick you aren't necessarily well enough to learn the material on your own so you are all caught up when you get back.
That is the way it is at my children's school. I don't think it is right to expect a student to take a test on material they weren't there to learn.
I get the feeling that since you don't really want your son in public school that you find everything there is to not like it. If you look for the bad you will find it.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 4:24:42 PM
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Leslie_JnJs_mom
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quote:
I get the feeling that since you don't really want your son in public school that you find everything there is to not like it. If you look for the bad you will find it.
You know that is exactly what I was thinking. So I post here so I can talk to people who are not involved. I get advise from people totally uninvolved.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/13/2008 8:58:35 PM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leslie_JnJs_mom
Jack was sick in bed with a 102 fever so I did not let him go to football.
Did he want to go? When my son was that age, I would have let him decide.
Also, did you let them know he was going to be absent?
quote:
I even found out his F in english was because he was sick and they not only did not let him make up his work but he failed a test that he had no idea they were taking that day since he was home sick.
When you say they did not let him make up the work, what did you mean - did she tell the others not to tell Jack what work they did?
If my son or daughter were ever off school, they would phone a friend that evening to find out what they missed and to see if there was anything they needed to know for the next day. That IMO is totally the child's responsibility, my two have known that right since they started High School (age 11 here in the UK)
Btw, if the teacher is known for pulling those kinds of stunts, I would presume then that Jack knew this already as well?
quote:
I am so close to pulling my son out and going back to homeschooling. The only thing stopping me is Jack loves seeing his friends every day. He leaves early so he can "hang out" before school. I really want to pull him though but I am scared of having an angry teenager at home.
So Jack does not want to be homeschooled? That for me would be the deciding factor. Unless you thought he'd come round to the idea once the decision had been made.
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RE: very mad and unsure what to do - 11/14/2008 9:46:10 AM
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Auben
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So who have you talked to so far? I think I saw you spoke with the principal.
Did you talk to the English teacher when the F happened? It's probably too late on that one, but I would recommend calling the teacher and asking for their rule on making up homework and tests. Did you speak with the coach first and then bring up all these points to the principal?
School has a chain of command like any business. If you don't like the principal's answer go to the superintendent or mail him a letter complaining about the situation. If he/she doesn't respond send letters to the school board.
If you feel that you are being discriminated against as a former homeschooler (or your son as an underclassman), then mention it. Be polite. Give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Give specific facts and details in your letter. Give a phone number/address where they can reach you. Ask for a response.
In most cases a principal will try first to support the teachers. Like two parents with a family of children, the principal will support the teacher in front of the kids so the students don't get the idea that they can divide and conquer. However, if a parent is fair, calm, and persistent they will often get their way. Most parents just accept their fate and complain at home.
There are going to be times when punishments are unfair. Even as parents we do it. Since human beings are the authority they are fallible. Now would be a good time to go over that with your son. We just do the best to treat each other well, even in our disappointment and anger, and we try to correct things the best we can. Sometimes they are uncorrectable. Maybe prayer is in order for the people at wrong. If we feel an injustice is being done, especially one which is reoccurring or affecting certain people, then we go the extra mile to try to make it better for everyone.
I hope things get better and that you and your son use this opportunity to pray for your school system.
_____________________________
Tamara
~Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time~
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